Comments on The Squeaky Wheel Gets the Mauling

What about the non pit bull owners who complain to you about, er, a lot of your posts? You understand, Dan, that you've certainly convinced everyone who thinks like you. That's easy. You'll never convince the completely closed minded (at least the ones who don't think like you). You'd have a chance of convincing some of the in-betweens if you made an effort to present some kind of coherent evidence in favor of your pet opinions. You're smart. You can do it.

Dan, please. This is the owners fault. Now can we please go back to ignoring the fact that these dogs are running all over the country killing/wounding children, men, women, cats, dogs, and owners? It isn't the dogs fault, it's the owners.

Now, about those guns...it's the guns fault! And the ease of getting a gun! Laws! Laws! LAWS!!!

If it could save one life!

hey dan- when your "research" consists of googling "pit bull attack" and hastily posting any recent items to the slog, you come off as more of a knee-jerky curmudgeon than a credible writer.

also, quick question: have you ever owned a dog?

Someone needs to catch up on Dan's awesome lit.

Jonothan Golob has the research. It says everyone should spay and neuter their dog, because the breed doesn't make that much of a difference. Plus! Fewer puppies!

Crusading to spay and neuter is a lot more useful and realistic than trolling pit bull lovers every day.

my dog attacks our lawnmower, but it's just bluff charges & barking. i don't think he'd actually maul a toddler who was mowing our lawn.

breedism? down with speciesism!!

why can't we have tigers and lynxes and bears everywhere, too?

and my pet wolf?

laws laws laws it should be the law of tooth and claw.

Grrrrrwwwwwllllll!!

Thanks, Dan.

The part that I think you also should have bolded was "fought to pry the dog loose." Just like sheep dogs were bred for the most effective herders (no one seems to deny that breed speciality), pitbulls were bred for the most effective killers. Ignoring the behavioral differences it exhibits while in attack mode (which the pro-pitbull camp will deny), incredibly powerful jaws is a physically measurable outcome of this breeding.

Yes, all dogs bite, but not many are capable of breaking bones. A pitbull can break your arm just by clamping down. That kid is lucky it didn't fracture her skull.

The problem is, of course, pitbulls can truly be lovable animals, so it's easy to forget that, if they do get in a situation where they feel threatened, they can inflict far more damage than most dogs of their size or larger.

Thanks, Dan.

The part that I think you also should have bolded was "fought to pry the dog loose." Just like sheep dogs were bred for the most effective herders (no one seems to deny that breed speciality), pitbulls were bred for the most effective killers. Ignoring the behavioral differences it exhibits while in attack mode (which the pro-pitbull camp will deny), incredibly powerful jaws is a physically measurable outcome of this breeding.

Yes, all dogs bite, but not many are capable of breaking bones. A pitbull can break your arm just by clamping down. That kid is lucky it didn't fracture her skull.

The problem is, of course, pitbulls can truly be lovable animals, so it's easy to forget that, if they do get in a situation where they feel threatened, they can inflict far more damage than most dogs of their size or larger.

Also, best blog-entry title I've seen in a long time.

Let's see if I can post this just once...

I hardly post these every day, and I ignore the vast majority of pit bull mauling stories out there. Google it yourself and do a little comparison. This one rose to the level of Slog, though, with that "Hey, your wagon provoked my dog!" line of crap from the owner—who, if we lived in a just world, would be put down five minutes after her dog is.

First of all, any pit bull owner who blames the victim for their dog's behavior deserves to have their dog boiled alive and fed to them. yeah yeah.
In response to Mr. Poe: The real enemy is GUN WEILDING DOGS!
(Rover's got a gun)

Boil the owners and feed them to their dogs.

Because it's so rare for vicious dog owners to blame the victims!

It's nearly axiomatic.

wrong, elenchos. the data jonathan posted last week said breed was an important factor. in fact it was the number one risk factor for fatal dog attacks. the caveat from the study was there was no data on pit bulls.

i love dogs. i hate breed bans and i think spay/neuter laws are the way to go. but anyone who thinks breed/genetics is inconsequential to dog behavior doesn't know very much about dogs and/or is willfully delusional.

I love you, bob!

I was almost mauled by a pit bull in the 70s so it isn't a "new" thing. They are a horrible, unstable breed only owned by thugs and people who need to feel like they have a dog that could rip a toddler's scalp off. I am a dog lover, an animal activist, and a parent and I think the breed should be banned. It is fucking common sense.

@15

I'm talking about the data in the newer study that he didn't have access to last week. Terriers are 3.8 times more likely to be in a reported attack than the most common (sporting) breeds. With working dogs it was 3.6. Intact males are 18.6 times more likely than spayed females. It is extremely compelling evidence.

This is based on looking at the whole population of dogs and the rates of attack for each sub-group, rather than which stories get hyped in the media.

I gave Jonathan a copy of the study; I hope he posts about it soon because the information is significant. And getting people to fix their pets is much more productive then demonizing one breed.

Some time ago, I oiled the wheels on my kids' wagon. I had no idea I was also saving them from potentially being mauled by a pit bull.

Check it out. If you wanted to eliminate the "dangerous breeds" you 'd have to go after not just Terriers (Pit Bulls) but also Working (Rottweilers) and Herding (German Shepherds) dogs. Intact females are more than twice the risk as terriers, and intact males are more than four times as dangerous.

Risk Ratio by Breed Group:

Sporting Referent
Terrier 8 3.8
Working 3.6
Herding 2.3
Nonsporting 2.0
Hound 1.1
Non-AKC 1.0
Toy 0.54

Risk Ratio by Sex-Neuter Status:

Spayed female Referent
Sexually intact male 18.6
Sexually intact female 10.5
Neutered male 2.6

Canine and human factors related to dog bite injuries.

You know what, FUCK YOU ALL.

Just because our majority loves to lock-on to innocent people who have no idea we're about to tear their life apart in a hot second for the sheer thrill of it, and then go on to attack anybody else that gets in the way, doesn't mean that we should be banned.

Just because we have jaws that can do fatal damage even with a playful bite, and it does often, doesn't mean we should be banned.

Just because our owners are assholes who love strong vicious dogs, or love us the way we are but are irresponsible, or are responsible but "we never did anything like this before", or someone has a friend that owns one of us and it's never "did anything like that before", or we're just running around aimlessly without a leash or a care in the world doesn't mean we should be banned.

Just because we demolish every breed on the book when it comes to attacks, fatal attacks, or playing-gone-wrong resorting to injury DOESN'T MEAN WE SHOULD BE BANNED. Cuz you don't even know I'm pure bred, bitch! I could be a quarter or half of something else! HA! Immunity!

And, please, let's not forget: just because my owner is too stupid, ignorant and selfish to acknowledge that I'm dangerous and even though I'm smiley-nice and cuddly-luvin' and totally part of the family, it doesn't mean I should be banned. Even though, no doubt, my owner is equipped with a fucking shitload of double standards in this area, because they're most likely some liberal idiot who runs off and points fingers about guns in general and liquids on planes.

I'm not a pit pull. I'm a dog. You can't ban me, but you can be sure that I'll attack out of nowhere. See also: Carollani.

That should say Terrier 3.8 not Terrier 8 3.8.

now you just being an asshole

ANy dog, regardless of breed, can attack. A toy poodle can jump at your face if awakened suddenly. The difference is that pitbulls were bred to be PARTICULARLY reflexive and strong, and to have locking jaws that snap bones. It is an inherently dangerous breed because it was bred to have the strength and instinct to be a dangerous breed. It's not just how they're raised; if it were then there would be dog-fighting rings full of chihuahuas and Jack Russell terriers. Yes any dog can attack, but how many will rip the scalp off a toddler without warning, and over a wagon no less?

@2: Who cares if it's not the dog's fault? We can't ban the "bad" owners, so we have to ban the dogs. I don't believe these "bad owners" want their dogs to kill people and animals, anyway.

I understand that there are many people who like dogs much more than people. However, it doesn't matter whose fault it is; these dogs regularly kill random people and animals. They can't be 'owned'. They cannot be pets. They are not domesticated. and shouldn't be anyone's pet any more than an innocent python/tiger/scorpion/poisonous tree frog should be someone's pet.

@25

You're a fucking idiot. If Apple sold a sarcasm radar, you might have hope. But alas, they don't. You can go back to talking to your friends with your hands now.

@26 did you just insult la@25 by insinuating he was deaf?

Which would be an odd thing for him to do as he's so obviously and consistently dumb.

@27

Uh, no. Clearly you haven't seen Apple's commercials. If you did, you'd know that the average Apple fanatic cannot speak without using their hands. In related news, you're a fucking idiot.

@28

I love you.

A shopping cart, and the shrieking of the kids riding in the cart, once freaked my dog out. Fortunately, it only provoked a barking fit, but I can't imagine pointing the finger elsewhere if he had attacked. What an asshole owner.

@30

Then climb up 9 floors and try to fly like a Russian dove.

Let's have all future pit bull owners nuetered or spayed as well as their dogs.

We don't have nine floors here, so you're out of luck. I still love you. Mmmmm. Bob. What a fatass name.

That's better, muppet. Let the insults out before you explode.

Dan, you left off the best part of that story. The very end says: "The Nebraska Humane Society tested the pit bull and did not find any sign of rabies. The Humane Society is now waiting on the test results for another pit bull that bit an Omaha police officer on Thursday night."

@21 Go fuck yerself, will ya? Just because you're a douchebag doesn't mean you have to be a complete idiot.

Go ahead and ban the 'breed'... Let me know how that works out for you. Let's see... given the societal success banning alcohol, drugs, non-procreative sex, guns, and evil thoughts, I think y'all might have a shot at a breeding ban.

Except that those other things are completely dependent on humans. Dogs will fuck anytime, anywhere. Guns (and evil thoughts, and the rest) are made by people.

Like I said, let me know how that works out for you.

We'll let you know, #37, by the simple fact that you still have your face, and you 1-year-old isn't dead.

If that doesn't work out for you, well, ask Amy Kate Horn to give you my e-mail address. I'll find you a Pit that needs a home. Mmkay? K. I have a "dog" ready for you. I'll wait.

@38 Yep, I still have my face, lovely as ever, and me one year old (that doesn't exist) is doing just fine, thank you very much.

However, having worked 10 yrs at a vet school for a large mid-western university, volunteered hundreds of hours at local (mid-western) humane societies, and having lived with several pits and rotts (none my own), I still say a breed ban is completely unworkable, unenforceable and so low on the radar to be considered plausible, let alone possible.

Mandatory sterilization has a better chance.

I'd take you up on your offer, but I live halfway across the country, and am already raising two rescued dogs (both fixed).

What are you doing to help? (Snark don't count.)

To all those above who claim "its not the dog, its the owner", you are partially correct. The owners are stupid for owning pit bulls and understanding nothing about breeding. But you and the owners apparently know nothing about dogs. Forget about pit bulls. Lets talk about retrievers. They retrieve. Anything. From the time they are puppies. They don't have to be trained to do it, but they do have to be trained to do it with an element of control. Retrievers retrieve even if their owners try to raise them to be lazy lap dogs. That's why hunters pay good money for a pure-bred retriever. Hounds follow scents and run squirrels up trees and then bark. The most gussied-up poodle will happily take any opportunity to go for a swim. Dogs do what they've been bred for centuries to do, and one owner with one dog does not change that pattern. Pit bulls are not hand guns. They are dogs.

i just don't see harsh enough consequences for these low-brow thugs and such when their dog does something really bad. and especially when there's an incident which clearly indicates that something worse will happen next time--nothing happens then, usually. when the bad thing does happen, the dog gets euthanized, the thug gets another one and a slap on the wrist. where's the incentive to breed a gentler, better controlled, weaker-jawed dog?

I don't help monsters.

All dogs attack. The media just loves a pit bull story because you all read it and jump on your little HATE Train.

In Washington on sat Jun 28 an Anatolian Shepherd attacked an elderly woman (Sunderland Echo)and in Vancouver WA on March 27, 2008 a yellow lab bit a 6y.o. girl's face severely. These stories won't be found on front pages, but they exist.Pit Bulls DO NOT bite more frequently than other breeds...you just see the stories more frequently.

As for the sentiment that only Thugs own Pit bulls...Really?
Are these people thugs? John Steinbeck, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson,Ira Glass,Alicia Silverstone, Jessica Alba, Jessica Beil, Michael J. Fox, Thomas Edison,Ray Romano, Jon Stewart(The Daily Show),Ashley Olsen, Rainn Wilson (The Office/6 feet Under),Sophia Bush(One Tree Hill)Frankie Muniz(Malcolom in The Middle), PINK,Kristen Johnston(3rdRock)Orlando Bloom, Madonna, MaryTyler Moore, Penelope Cruz, Ceasar Millan,Mel Brooks,Judd Nelson,Jimmy Carter,SandraBullok,Rosie Perez,Jack Johnson,Linda Blair, Rachael Ray,Rick Springfield,Jamie Fox, David Spade

Ignorance kills. It's easy to bully a target that can't speak for itself.

There are too many of you as is.

Can you really blame us for trying to thin your herd?

Great response, Hilter. Or is it Mao or maybe Milosoveich?

julie russell needs to read some of jonathan golob's data of incidence of dog bites/attacks.

Perhaps she can open that closed rat-trap of a brain of hers.

Actually, I have read those statistics. The ones put out by the CDC, ASPCA and Seattle Animal Control. I have spoken at length with Seattle Animal Control on numerous occasions as well.(great peeps over there:))

I read the intro of the studies as well that warns "these statistics were obtained to the best of our abilities and should not be considered entirely accurate". Funny how this part never gets posted.

There are many variables when dogs attack. One being that people often mis-report the type of dog that committed the attack. To some, any block headed dog is a "pit bull" so the stat is initially recorded as pit bull". Once the dog is captured, however it may be determined that it is in fact another breed. Often this yields double reporting.

I am not denying that SOME pit bulls attack.Only an idiot would purport that. The reality is that MANY breeds attack and finding accurate statistics is difficult.

Nothing is ever black and white, but the killing of a breed is a LAZY person's INHUMANE solution to a problem that far surpasses breed.