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RSS icon Comments on The Seattle Times Editorial Board: Pointless

1

sometimes, when I’m going off to work, passing a tent city makes me feel extremely jealous.

Posted by ramblin' man | June 12, 2008 12:49 PM
2

Emergency

1. A serious situation or occurrence that happens unexpectedly and demands immediate action.

Homelessness is not unexpected.

Posted by umvue | June 12, 2008 12:54 PM
3

It's not working on me, at least. I have never helped the homeless, and never will, beyond what is already wasted from my taxes. The majority of people are lazy, plain and simple. The rest are the mentally fucked up that need to be euthanized. Get up off your ass and get a real job. If you can't be a contributing member of society, then don't expect society to help you. If you can't be sane enough to act normal enough to wash fucking dishes, then you're a genetic aberration that doesn't need to be a part of society - an evolutionary mistake, a dead-ender.

Tangential but related about panhandlers: When I was a teenager working a shitty minimum wage summer job, there was a guy who would park his new-ish truck behind the theater at 8am every morning, spend a few hours at the busy intersection collecting money with a sign about how he's homeless, oh please help him, take the middle of the day off, and then be back at the intersection for the evening traffic. Fuck that shit.

Posted by Nope, not here | June 12, 2008 12:55 PM
4

the obligation even has a name. it's called the social contract. you tell'em dan.

Posted by LMSW | June 12, 2008 12:58 PM
5

@3,

Great anecdotal evidence there.


Come back when you're diagnosed with XDR tuberculosis and remind us that it's not in society's interest to help the homeless.

Posted by keshmeshi | June 12, 2008 12:58 PM
6

Always with the New Orleans bashing. It's getting to the point that I can't surf the internet without seeing my town bashed repeatedly.

Posted by Chris from N.O. | June 12, 2008 12:58 PM
7

Always with the New Orleans bashing. It's getting to the point that I can't surf the internet without seeing my town bashed repeatedly.

Posted by Chris from N.O. | June 12, 2008 12:59 PM
8

Nope,

When you become homeless can I make the shot that puts the bullet in your head?

Posted by Lightbrite | June 12, 2008 1:05 PM
9

If I were a resident of Tent City, I'd refuse to move to fucking Mercer Island.

The homeless would be an improvement on the hoards of rodents and elderly, rich bastards that currently reside there...

Posted by michael strangeways | June 12, 2008 1:09 PM
10

The point of Tent City is to have homelessness in the face of well-housed people to remind them that not everyone is as lucky as they are

Two kinds of people in the world, I guess... you're either Homeless or you're Lucky.

Posted by jmr | June 12, 2008 1:10 PM
11

Emergencies are by definition exceptional and thus temporary. Homelessness is a permanent feature of our society. So it's not an emergency. That's a significant distinction because one might easily countenance mass urban camping on a temporary basis during a time of crisis (say in the aftermath of an earthquake) while not tolerating it as a permanent feature of the landscape, even if it's a moving one.

Posted by kinaidos | June 12, 2008 1:13 PM
12

@3 - So there was one lazy not-homeless guy while you worked a shit summer job and you are still SO bitter about it that you want to euthanize the mentally ill? Nice!

I agree with keshmeshi @5, except with your pent-up anger, I'd say you're headed for a stroke or a heart attack. Either way, if you survive that, you could end up on disability and have a tough time paying all of your bills. If that happened, we assume you would do the honorable thing and off yourself?

Posted by Mahtli69 | June 12, 2008 1:17 PM
13

New Homeless & Old, by Charls Hock & Richard Slayton. Read it. Understand. There was an infrastructure prior to ww2 that kept the poorest of the poor indoors -SROs & flophouses. Like the streetcar system, we tore it all down in the name of urban renewal. Now we've got to rebuild it.

Tent City is just a stopgap, and whether it ultimately is delaying or helping SRO construction, i have no fucking clue.

Personally, I would like the cities who supply Seattle with their homeless to help us rebuild the infrastructure to support their sons & daughters. Cuz they ain't all from here.

Posted by max solomon | June 12, 2008 1:22 PM
14

@3, @11 - According to Webster's, "emergency" has two meanings. I think the second one applies in this case.

emergency -

1 : an unforeseen combination of circumstances or the resulting state that calls for immediate action

2 : an urgent need for assistance or relief

Posted by Mahtli69 | June 12, 2008 1:23 PM
15

I'm glad they moved out of Phinney, I have to say. The 3 times that my car was broken into just happened to occur when they were 3 blocks away.

But that was just a coincidence, right? The $1000 in lost stuff and broken windows just happened to start when they moved in and just happened to end when they moved out.

I'm sure that there are families in dire need of help that use tent city, just as I'm sure there is a criminal element of addicts that will do anything to anyone to live the life they want.

Posted by wisepunk | June 12, 2008 1:24 PM
16

We make it ever more difficult for people to find or afford housing. Bad credit, bankruptsy, illness...on and on, is causing problems. The Times doesn't sell papers to homeless people.

Posted by Vince | June 12, 2008 1:28 PM
17

Of coure, Times publisher Frank Blethen lives on Mercer Island as well. I once made a pilgrimage to his house and had my dog pee on his gate.

Posted by Goldy | June 12, 2008 1:30 PM
18

a wise punk keeps $1000 worth of stuff in his/her car? please tell me it was many spiked leather jackets with JFA patches or your band equipment. then that would just make you a punk.

Posted by cochise. | June 12, 2008 1:32 PM
19

Mercer Island is a great location for Tent City.

Posted by Will in Seattle | June 12, 2008 1:39 PM
20

"and we help them with shelter beds."

Yeah, except that we don't have nearly enough shelter beds, hence tent city and the like.

Honestly, I would much rather have the homeless sleeping in shelters than camping out in affluent neighborhoods. I know the political point is to put homelessness in the face of the rich, but so far the result has just been increased bitching about the homeless by the rich, so I think the political point is lost.

Posted by Hernandez | June 12, 2008 1:50 PM
21
The point of Tent City is to have homelessness in the face of well-housed people to remind them that not everyone is as lucky as they are

I know I say this a lot, but fuck you, Erica. Seriously. I have a home, and luck had nothing to do with it. I was homeless off and on for about two years and I never spanged, and I rarely slept outside, and when I did sleep outside I didn't think I had a right to build a fucking house on public land or shit in the bushes or leave a pile of garbage in the greenbelt. It was bad luck that made me homeless -- dead parents, under age, recession, etc -- but I fixed the situation myself through hard work and determination. You may have lucked into everything you have, but I worked my way off the street and I honestly believe that most of the chronically homeless -- with the obvious exception of those suffering from mental illness -- could do likewise if they wanted to.

I have some support for my opinion, since I worked for a social service agency serving homeless youth and young adults for three years. But don't let my personal and career expertise get in the way of a good story.

Yeah, except that we don't have nearly enough shelter beds, hence tent city and the like.

This "fact" is totally misleading, by the way. We actually have a surplus of what are called high barrier beds: beds for people without serious substance abuse issues, mental illness or a history of violent behavior.

The people we don't have beds for -- many of the so-called chronically homeless -- are people who actually belong in mental hospitals or jails, rather than shelters. And its not a lack of goodwill that makes sheltering low-barrier users so difficult. Never mind the fact that there's no federal money for programs that allow their clients to use drugs, but sheltering those people without the use of lock-down protocols is unbelievably expensive, and programs that do it can't get insured at any price. Just maintaining adequate staffing ratios in those kinds of facilities is unbelievably pricey, but covering contingencies like hospital bills and facilities maintenance makes it pretty much impossible to run a shelter that serves that demographic.

But again, don't let reality inform your opinion. You just keep looking for a bad guy. You'll find one eventually.

Posted by Judah | June 12, 2008 2:16 PM
22
The point of Tent City is to have homelessness in the face of well-housed people to remind them that not everyone is as lucky as they are

I know I say this a lot, but fuck you, Erica. Seriously. I have a home, and luck had nothing to do with it. I was homeless off and on for about two years and I never spanged, and I rarely slept outside, and when I did sleep outside I didn't think I had a right to build a fucking house on public land or shit in the bushes or leave a pile of garbage in the greenbelt. It was bad luck that made me homeless -- dead parents, under age, recession, etc -- but I fixed the situation myself through hard work and determination. You may have lucked into everything you have, but I worked my way off the street and I honestly believe that most of the chronically homeless -- with the obvious exception of those suffering from mental illness -- could do likewise if they wanted to.

I have some support for my opinion, since I worked for a social service agency serving homeless youth and young adults for three years. But don't let my personal and career expertise get in the way of a good story.

Yeah, except that we don't have nearly enough shelter beds, hence tent city and the like.

This "fact" is totally misleading, by the way. We actually have a surplus of what are called high barrier beds: beds for people without serious substance abuse issues, mental illness or a history of violent behavior.

The people we don't have beds for -- many of the so-called chronically homeless -- are people who actually belong in mental hospitals or jails, rather than shelters. And its not a lack of goodwill that makes sheltering low-barrier users so difficult. Never mind the fact that there's no federal money for programs that allow their clients to use drugs, but sheltering those people without the use of lock-down protocols is unbelievably expensive, and programs that do it can't get insured at any price. Just maintaining adequate staffing ratios in those kinds of facilities is unbelievably pricey, but covering contingencies like hospital bills and facilities maintenance makes it pretty much impossible to run a shelter that serves that demographic.

But again, don't let reality inform your opinion. You just keep looking for a bad guy. You'll find one eventually.

Posted by Judah | June 12, 2008 2:23 PM
23
The point of Tent City is to have homelessness in the face of well-housed people to remind them that not everyone is as lucky as they are

I know I say this a lot, but fuck you, Erica. Seriously. I have a home, and luck had nothing to do with it. I was homeless off and on for about two years and I never spanged, and I rarely slept outside, and when I did sleep outside I didn't think I had a right to build a fucking house on public land or shit in the bushes or leave a pile of garbage in the greenbelt. It was bad luck that made me homeless -- dead parents, under age, recession, etc -- but I fixed the situation myself through hard work and determination. You may have lucked into everything you have, but I worked my way off the street and I honestly believe that most of the chronically homeless -- with the obvious exception of those suffering from mental illness -- could do likewise if they wanted to.

I have some support for my opinion, since I worked for a social service agency serving homeless youth and young adults for three years. But don't let my personal and career expertise get in the way of a good story.

Yeah, except that we don't have nearly enough shelter beds, hence tent city and the like.

This "fact" is totally misleading, by the way. We actually have a surplus of what are called high barrier beds: beds for people without serious substance abuse issues, mental illness or a history of violent behavior.

The people we don't have beds for -- many of the so-called chronically homeless -- are people who actually belong in mental hospitals or jails, rather than shelters. And its not a lack of goodwill that makes sheltering low-barrier users so difficult. Never mind the fact that there's no federal money for programs that allow their clients to use drugs, but sheltering those people without the use of lock-down protocols is unbelievably expensive, and programs that do it can't get insured at any price. Just maintaining adequate staffing ratios in those kinds of facilities is unbelievably pricey, but covering contingencies like hospital bills and facilities maintenance makes it pretty much impossible to run a shelter that serves that demographic.

But again, don't let reality inform your opinion. You just keep looking for a bad guy. You'll find one eventually.

Posted by Judah | June 12, 2008 2:24 PM
24

Tent city is comming to Mercer Island!? The whole point of moving to Mercer Island is to avoid having poor people around you. If paying for a house on Mercer Island isn't enough to buy that, I guess it's time to move to a gated community -- or perhaps Mercer Island could incorporate itself as a gated community. In any case, you can be damn sure that tent city will not be on Mercer Island long.

Posted by David Wright | June 12, 2008 2:25 PM
25

Tent city is comming to Mercer Island!? The whole point of moving to Mercer Island is to avoid having poor people around you. If paying for a house on Mercer Island isn't enough to buy that, I guess it's time to move to a gated community -- or perhaps Mercer Island could incorporate itself as a gated community. In any case, you can be damn sure that tent city will not be on Mercer Island long.

Posted by David Wright | June 12, 2008 2:28 PM
26

LMSW, invoking "social contract" can cut both ways much to the dismay of a progressive here.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | June 12, 2008 2:53 PM
27

@15:

While I can sympathize, having had my own car broken into a number of times over the years, by way of contrast though I would offer that tent city has camped out a couple of blocks up the street from me three times in nearly four years I've lived in my neighborhood, and so far as I'm aware not a single car on my block has been broken into during their residency.

And I keep a LOT of stuff in my car, seeing it's a camper.

But then, probably the last thing a tent city resident needs is another tent.

Posted by COMTE | June 12, 2008 3:00 PM
28

Glitchy fucking comments engine.

Posted by Judah | June 12, 2008 3:11 PM
29

@21, 22, 23 - I stand corrected. Thanks for making the distinction; I'd only ever heard that there was a general shortage.

Posted by Hernandez | June 12, 2008 3:40 PM
30

Tent City came to Issaquah and it was great. We welcomed them; they behaved well; the issue got some visibility on the East Side; everybody won.

Posted by Big Sven | June 12, 2008 3:49 PM
31

Exactly, Sven, we had TC4 at my church in Kirkland twice, in 2005 & 2008, and it was the same as you: good for everyone. I am so glad I canceled my Times subscription earlier today, even before I !@$@! knew where #$%@ vesely lives!!!

Posted by calvin | June 12, 2008 4:22 PM
32

Hobos are funny.

Posted by Sad Comment | June 12, 2008 4:34 PM
33

I remember Tent City when it was on my block in Ballard - glad that Mercer Island gets to have it, and I hope they realize their sad attempts at walling themselves off will never work.

Nobody, to my knowledge, likes being homeless.

Posted by Will in Seattle | June 12, 2008 5:45 PM
34

LOL- at the implication that tents are a new idea for the homeless.

Posted by Mrs. Jarvie | June 12, 2008 6:09 PM
35

BA - No, I don't think the social contract cuts both ways in this case. Furthermore, your views about the poor as revealed in your investor class posts do not appear to be progressive to me. I added a few comments at the end of that post in regard to those views.

Current society is violating the social contract in regard to the homeless. To imagine that the homeless are violating the contract is to blame the victim.

Try reading: Trattner, W. I. (1999). From poor law to welfare state (6th Edition). New York: The Free Press.

Posted by LMSW | June 12, 2008 7:09 PM
36

Judah: thank you.

Posted by pretentious | June 12, 2008 9:29 PM
37

The fact is that a lot of homeless people don't want to be in shelters. Either because the shelters are dangerous, they're full of people that steal, or because they have rules like don't come in high or drunk.

As for those saying that homelessness is a feature of our society, any industrial societies that don't have homeless?

Posted by bob | June 12, 2008 10:31 PM
38

Unless and until we offer everyone housing without absolutely no preconditions or rules, we will have homeless people.

Because while there are certainly families and 'regular people' that spend some time homeless, the majority of the long-term homeless have drug and/or alcohol and/or mental issues.

As soon as you start setting rules around housing (you must work, you must not smoke crack in your apartment, etc) many of them would prefer to sleep outside.

So do we want to offer free housing no questions asked? Personally I say we offer emergency shelter and housing to those that can abide by reasonable rules, offer free treatment to those that want help, and those that aren't interested can continue sleeping outside.

Posted by frank | June 12, 2008 10:43 PM
39

You're stupid. Don't you know that the tax cuts we passed in the past 8+ years led to corporations funding all social needs well beyond necessity? Just ask any compassionate conservative.

These homeless lazy bums should get off their asses and get a bed like everyone else. These people WANT to live in tents, at the expense of other people's utopian delusions and property values.

Posted by K | June 13, 2008 10:17 AM

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