Comments on So Conflicted, So Conflicted...

Yeah. Like there are no 30-year-old whack jobs out there. Sure.

I understand the conflict, but traditionally voter ID laws have been enacted to discourage minority voting primarily. So, even if a few Alzheimered GOPers get caught up in the net along with poor blacks and Latinos, it'll still be Dems who are more adversely affected.

Hey, it's a blunt instrument. But fewer 30 year-olds are whack jobs, statistically speaking.

Dan, don't be an unprincipled idiot.

Republicans push this because they think it will depress Democratic turnout. Depressing democratic turnout = Republican governors/presidents = Republican courts = no gay marraige.

So yes, bad.

Hey grandpa, you aren't exactly a shiny quarter when it comes to what we need in the booth.

You know, Dan, most of the 30-year-olds I know can't even be bothered to vote at all, whether they're whack-jobs or not. Maybe this year's election will be different; maybe it won't. But as long as you're throwing meaningless statistics around that you can't back up, I'm willing to bet that more 70-year-olds vote than 30-year-olds.

I feel similarly conflicted when I think about the idea of having to take a very, very basic test about the candidates to be able to vote. So elitist! So anti-democracy! But, think about all the total morons and nutjobs it would weed out!

Voter IDs are a bad idea, though -- I think @2 is right about the minority population.

I say tackle the paperless Diebold fraud machines first.

This mornings edition of The Today Show included an interview with McCain followed by an interview with a guy who survived having a nail shot into his head by a nail gun. I was not sure which interview was which.

I appreciate the sentiment, but really, we're stuck with the small-minded, racist, homophobic old people until they all die, and even if voter ID laws stop a few from casting a ballot, many more will manage to successfully vote.

And beyond that, there's really no guarantee that today's young conservatives won't turn out to be just as crazy once they hit the autumn years.

I'm against voter laws, but I am for not allowing those over 65 to have an e-mail account that accepts chain e-mails, or has the ability to forward them to others.

All this Obama-as-Muslim bullshit is coming directly from scared old people with e-mail accounts who believe anything other scared old people with e-mail accounts sends them.

These people sound a lot like my grandma, who insists that eating the very tips of a banana will give you the flux. I try to avoid talking to her about politics and just hope she'll forget to mail her absentee ballot.

"But fewer 30 year-olds are whack jobs, statistically speaking."

Really? Maybe you could cite these statistics.

When Dan Savage tells you he counted 5 news stories this week about pit bull attacks, he thinks that is "speaking statistically".

This is going to disproportionately affect elderly black voters, who may be/probably are homophobic, but are definitely keen on voting for the black dude.

#16, the fact that we are seriously discussing support of what basically amounts to a poll tax because it might help our agenda is disgusting. Stop.

Take the high road, Dan.

Oh, Dan.

@17,

I don't support it. Are you addressing someone else or do you need to work on your reading comprehension skills?

Dan, I'm so disappointed in you. I will shortly be 62 and have voted in every election that I have been eligible. My father will be 89 in a month and is a clear-minded liberal. Do you wish to deny the vote to seniors? By what test would you administer? Should a voter not be obligated to say "This is who I am and here is my ID?" Here in Canada, if a voter does not have ID, s/he can be vouched for at the polling station by a voter with ID. Providing ID does not abrogate the secret ballot. Do you want to restrict the vote to only those who agree with you?

#17, I didn't say you supported it. I said you were discussing it. You *did* bring up a possible benifit for Obama, right? Do you need to work on your reading comprehension skills *and* your blood pressure?

Voting ID laws are BAD. However, in states where they go through if some of the people caught in the net are the ones likely to vote Republican...I'm not above appreciating ironic just desserts. Besides, every 95 year old white little old lady turned away at the polls the news interviews chips away at public support for voter ID laws, and I'm just fine with that.

Guess my 93-year-old socialist grandma with two gay-married-and-much-loved daughters and who keeps spamming me with pro-Obama stuff would be pissed at Dan, but she might also recognize that she's a little unusual.

It's all in the enforcement. Therein lies the true agenda.

ID laws are a GOP ploy to reduce African American voting. When I lived in NC it was how the republicans were able to suppress black voters by targeting poor black communities with mailings that said if a person's id didn't match up with voter's registration logs, that the voter would be arrested at the poling place for fraud. The NC GOP was very successful with this ploy and because of it were able to keep people like Jesse Helms in office.

@22,

No, it hurts Obama. Elderly black voters are disproportionately affected by this. For various reasons Black people in past decades were less likely to get birth certificates.

So what we have here is the question of how much Realpolitik to embrace. Personally I think voter ID laws are the wrong way to go.

However, I think the Realpolitik response to states with those laws would be to collect money and organize voter registration/voter ID drives in the areas most likely to vote a progressive agenda while letting the republican operatives organize their own. The result might be greater voter registration generally.

How many people here would donate to such an organization?

The quotes Dan lists bring up a question I have been asking myself, and others, for several months now: How many voters will never vote for a black person? 10 million? 20 million? 50,000? Is that the real "swing vote"? (John McCain will only pick a white male as his running mate, as he has to be counting on the bigot vote, however large or small it may be.)

Just how many useless, waste-of-flesh bigots are left in this country?

Fortunately for BHO's safety, most of those bigots are also extreme cowards.

Dan, sometimes I wonder if you only post things to stir up the pot and start a debate.

Washington already wants voters to provide ID at the polls: Washington Elections ID Procedure

This does not apply to absentee voters; I assume that older voters would tend to vote absentee, but don't know for sure. I've worked a few elections and most of the people who came in were senior citizens.

Not mentioned on the elections page is that some form of ID is required for all first-time voters at the polls. In any case, if you forget your ID and don't have time to get it before the polls close you can fill out a provisional ballot.

zap.