Comments on Katie Couric on the Media's Sexism
Man, you can almost hear the ratings dropping on Katie every time she opens her crooked mouth.
Good for Katie for saying something substantive for a change. However, she didn't name names. Calling out "the media" for sexism is pretty vague. It would have been braver for her to cite people responsible, instead of some nebulous entity.
What a stupid fucking argument. Who the fuck cares who got hated more than who and for what reason?
People disliked Hillary because she was a sucky, boring, old-school candidate compared to Obama, not because she was a woman.
Boo hoo Hoo...cry me a river. HRC Nutcracker at the airport, shocking!! Where was the outrage over the Obama Curious George shirt and some po-dunk bar in WV?
Seriously, stop whining and realize that she played a good game but Obama was smart and didn't blow huge wads of money on some fancy pants chief strategist who was only working part time for the campaign. She spent more on a month than Obama's chief strategist earned in a entire year.
Ah, it was sexism that made Hillary vote for the Iraq war, fatally alienating her from her own party's base? That clears that up then.
Her points are fair, and as about as trenchant as a 60 second TV spot can get.
(Oh, and in an attempt at establishing non-bias: I did not support Hillary, and I have attacked ECB's use of misleading statistics to advocate comparable worth legislation at every opportunity.)
Yep, Seattlites, SLOG readers in particular, are so damned enlightened and intelligunt. As Paul Constant likes to point out, they speel good.
And if ECB had posted this link instead of Eli, she'd be getting flamed. As it is, Eli's fine.
So Hillary faced sexism in the media, and Obama faced racism in the voting booths. Some choice quotes directly from Slog articles, which can't link to due to Slog's stupid spam filter:
Clark County Pimping the "Obama's a Muslim" Smear
"All the signs point to that he is (a secret Muslim)"
The constitution should be amended so it will "not let any colored people run for the White House."
Not that the media is totally missing out on racist opportunities.
Which do you think is easier to overcome, the media's pitiful attempts to make you look bad that any reasonable person can see right through, or the unreasonable and irrational lifelong beliefs that many Americans are taking into the booth that don't allow them to vote for excessive melainin?
Everyone has their detractors and enemies; you can choose to cry about it and complain how unfair it is, or just do your damn job.
And this is Obama's fault because...???
Vote for McCain because some idiot shouted "iron my shirt" at a rally. That makes sense.
She's right. I don't think Obama even belongs in the discussion, because there's always the impulse to compare how bad he got it being black versus how bad she got it being female. That's not the point. She got treated very badly by the media in a way any dude holding her exact same positions and saying the exact same things wouldn't have been, and that's a shame. And as I keep telling my Hillary-hating dad, I'm saying this as someone who's never wanted her for President.
These ads are awesome. Thanks Slog!!
with the exception of a few posts, everyone who has commented has showed themselves to be complete douche bags. THERE WAS SEXISM, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. to deny that is abject ignorance.
with the exception of a few posts, everyone who has commented has showed themselves to be complete douche bags. THERE WAS SEXISM, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. to deny that is abject ignorance.
with the exception of a few posts, everyone who has commented has showed themselves to be complete douche bags. THERE WAS SEXISM, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. to deny that is abject ignorance.
There's really no reason to take her perfectly valid points and assume that she's fighting the same war that ReclusiveLeftist and other anti-feminists are. Everything she said is true, it's not Obama's fault in the slightest, and she's not making the argument that the sexism had any greater effect on the results of the primary than racism did.
I don't think KC was complaining that Hillary didn't win the nom, folks, but that, regardless of why someone didn't like HRC, misogyny was often the accepted and unchallenged form of expressing that dislike.
You lost me at "Katie Couric".
Katie makes some good points: there was definitely sexism against Hillary. Was it why she lost? No. No doubt it had a factor, but sexism alone didn't kill off a candidate that had been crowned the presumptive nominee by every major news network as soon as she announced her candidacy.
Now, don't get me wrong, I know what Katie's trying to do, and it's admirable, but one of her points is just utterly fucking wrong. "If Senator Obama had to confront the racist equivalent of an 'Iron My Shirt' poster at campaign rallies or a Hillary nutcracker sold at airports ... the outrage would not be a footnote, it would be front-page news."
So, Katie, if I understand you right, you're trying to quantify Hillary Clinton's pain, measure it against Obama's, and say hers is the greater. What the fuck? That's a pretty asshole move, Katie. There's no reason to frame it like that. And it's also demonstrably false.
Just last Friday we had to endure discussion about a "Terroist Fist Jab", never mind the Kenyan garb fiasco, Reverend Wright, emphasizing his middle name, darkening and widening his image in attack commercials, being deliberately asked on stage at debates if he was black enough, talk of him going to a Madrassa as if that was some code word for terrorism, and the fact that 1/3 of the people in this country still think he's a Muslim Manchurian Candidate. (There are probably even more examples that I'm forgetting.)
When is the mainstream media going to be taken to task for that, Katie?
No, Zelbinian, you're wrong. If there had been a couple of douchebags at an Obama rally with signs that said "Pick my Cotton", presuming they could be heard over the cheering crowd or the murderous riot, it would have been a much bigger story. Nobody in the media would have dared treat it like a joke, either, which is what some people in the media did. You might argue that FoxNews doesn't count, but even if they're not news, they're still The Media.
I don't think either candidate would be affected by such a weak attempt at their dignity. Nobody's "pain" is greater. But that doesn't change the fact that such a small thing would have a decidedly different reaction depending upon the supposed victim.
Sorry Katie. Too little too late. And downright unbelievable.
I have a hard time listening to someone who makes more than 98% of the rest of the world talk about victimization.
I find the Clinton hating at the SLOG is getting really, really fucking boring. Jesus Christ, people, it's over. She lost.
But if you can't see that the sexist opposition to her candidacy (whatever fraction of the total opposition that it was) was more overt and unappologetic than the racist reaction to Obama's candidacy, then you are either a fool or being willfully ignorant.
@21: Like I said, she has a point, and it's a good one to make.
But, uh, I really don't think minorities are going to be too happy with the way she framed it.
@23 - Evidently you had a very hard time listening, because there was nothing at all about victimization in it.
However, Zelb, most of what you point out is Obama being attacked not as black, but as Muslim. Certainly, there's racism in Obama's treatment, but it's interesting to note that it's through associating him with a currently acceptable demonized other (them Muslims) as a guise for attacking his more apparent, but less blatantly approachable otherness (blackness).
Right, because the media represents mainstream opinion.
The thing is that while whispers about Obama's non-mainstream background almost certainly had a negative effect on his candidacy, I honestly don't see sexism having negatively affected Clinton's campaign. If anything, its effect was sometimes positive. What am I to believe that the sudden significant uptick for Hillary amongst women in NH polls the few days before the primary came from? Was it from New Hampshire women suddenly reconsidering her health care policy, or was it the "Iron My Shirt" guys? Perhaps Obama probably should've made more of a noise about sexism in the campaign, if only out of self-interest - every time Chris Matthews opened his big fat mouth, Hillary may have gained another handful of supporters.
Oh, and as for this from Big Sven@24 ...
the sexist opposition to her candidacy ... was more overt and unappologetic than the racist reaction to Obama's candidacy,
... oh, don't worry. They've found an outlet for multiple bigotries now.
@28 - Well, you won't ever find me defending Merriam-Webster, but the definition you gave is immaterial. The fact remains that she was not commenting on the effect, but on the cause. "Sexism exists, look at it" not "Sexism exists, feel sorry for me and others"
You also won't ever find me claiming that various groups of people, including women and blacks, don't play the victim card unnecessarily. But don't put words in Katie Couric's mouth*, because that's not what she's doing.
*ehehe, i'll put something in her mouth...
Interview w/Kevin Merida - Washington Post writer of story entitled “Racism on the Campaign Trail”
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90483754
Washington Post article written by Kevin Merida
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051203014_pf.html
and the Obama campaign tried to keep knowledge of these incidents on the down low - stop already with the ironing shirts shit.
We have a pretty good idea which states Obama lost due to racism. Call me crazy but I don't think Hillary lost any states due to sexism. I'm not saying sexism didn't rear it's ugly head, but I doubt it hurt Hillary as much as racism hurt Obama. Hey, I've got a theory as to why she lost: her team ran a horrible campaign strategy completely based around her inevitability as a candidate. That didn’t go over too well with voters. Go figure.
So if Katie hadn't said this and Charles Gibson had, then what? You'd think W would be magnetic north for hatred instead of Hillary. WTF!
KC blames Hillarys defeat on sexism. When KC gets shit canned what do you think she'll blame her overpaid failure on?
A white privileged woman (50% pop) tells white America via a major TV network that sexism exists on the campaign trail.
Seriously, where are the black TV anchors (not on her channel, or any cable news channel), where are the black senators, where are the positive black mainstream TV characters who don't live in the white suburbs?
Sexism my ass!
It is incredible to me how many of these comments do not respond to what KC is actually saying. It's like you folks are incapable of actually listening or comprehending a simple argument because you are so blinded by your hatred of HRC. KC is not saying she lost because of sexism, she is not saying HRC got "hated more", she is not saying HRC is likeable or deserved to win. She is simply saying that sexism is OK in the media and the culture at large in a way that racism is not. I think it is not even debatable that an anti-Obama racist equivalent of a "Hilary Nutcracker" would never, ever be produced and sold in shops. It would not be considered funny or appropriate. People would be outraged. Is that so difficult to understand?
Some men did not vote for Hillary because she was a woman. More women (and some men) voted for Hillary specifically because she was a woman.
Also, I am sure Edmund Muskie in his presidential run wished he was treated like Hillary was for her tears.
The video did not mention voting once.
No. Stop. Fail.
30 seconds on wikipedia:
"As of the 2006 elections, there are 16 women (an all-time high) serving in the 100-person body, including freshmen Senators Claire McCaskill and Amy Klobuchar. The Senatorial representation of three states (California, Washington and Maine) is entirely female." (Article: Women in the United States Senate)
Currently serving black senators:
"Barack Obama Democrat Illinois 2005-present"
End of list. (Article: African Americans in the United States Congress)
There's been 5. Ever. There's three times that many women in the senate NOW.
Racism >>> Sexism still.
Why do we still care about Hillary Clinton and her battles?
These debates about racism vs sexism are so tiring and undergrad. What strikes me,is the vehemence with which most of you (I assume men) deny the existence of sexism.
You do it because it is too uncomfortable for you to face sexism in your every day life. My guess is that most of you are young white men who know no black people. So it's easy for you to romanticize racist oppression and take the high road there. You don't have to put your money where your mouth is and actually have a relationship with a person of color.
But it is way to threatening and uncomfortable to look at your girlfriends, wives, sisters and mothers with any kind of power analysis because *guess what*, you are likely the douchebag who plaques their lives with subtle or overt sexism and your own sense of superiority and entitlement. Too close to home. You refuse to acknowledge the existence of gender bias or violence against women. Your arguments are self serving, petty, bratty and selfish. Gee thanks brothers,for supporting the women who raised you, fuck you, comfort you, prop you up, provide your eye candy and probably act as emotional vending machines for you.
Pussies.
She's right.
Go Obama.
Katie's post was good as far as it went, but she may have noted that Clinton herself shared blame. For ex., it was her supporter who introduced her as having the testicular fortitude to be president accompanied by the anti-gay comment that she would make Rocky look like a pansy. And she laughed. Similarly, it was James Carville who said she could give one of her balls to Obama and still have more than him.
Wouldn't the outrage have to cover these clearly sexist comments also. And doesn't the fact that the Clinton campaign tried this approach to de-emasculate Obama undercut any attempt to blame the media for sexism?
Oh, Pissed off Bitch...I wish you wrote for Katie Couric (or that your comment could be given the same platform that KCs did).
Yours was the best remark made here (followed by twee at #38).
Thank you both for paying attention and jamming a stick in the spokes of these defensive morons.
@42,
Fail. Your argument only works if black politicians have been defeated due to their race. There are many more white women in this country than black people of either gender. White women, despite sexism, have more opportunities simply by being born to wealthy and middle class parents. Poverty in the black community keeps many black kids from going to college, let alone becoming politicians. Although I can just imagine the screaming from all of you asswipes if affirmative action or significant social welfare programs were used to decrease those inequities.
And, above all, your argument fails because KC isn't complaining about HRC's loss; she's complaining about sexism in the media, period.
Thanks Patrick. Sorry about the typos. I was sleep-typing at 3am. So pissed off I can't sleep......
@ 38, 45, you're completely correct. all these comments have been a complete show of immaturity and ignorance. they've twisted the issue into something they can defend, all the while ignoring the real problem. i'm always amazed by how idiotic people can really be this day in age.
I'd be curious to know if anyone has actually taken the time to document some of the more egregious examples of sexism that Hillary faced in this campaign. Perhaps a top 10 list? Anyone? It might be interesting to document it for historical perspective.
I know the "Iron my shirt" event would be on the list. But, what, specifically, are the most egregious among the many that Couric and others are referencing here? Also, does it count to cherry pick stupid comments from the Internet?
Timothy, the blog Shakesville has been tracking them for awhile, I think they are up to 105 or so accounts.
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/05/hillary-sexism-watch-102.html
We don't have accounts on SLOG, Seriously.
So:
Hillary haters are sexist.
Obama haters are Racist.
McCain haters are Ageist.
Aren't we all a bunch of bigots and aren't they all a bunch of victims.
Geesh. Get over it.
Yeah, I hear the whole state of West Masculina, where there is only a 3.5% female population, chose Obama because they refuse to vote for a woman.
@4: Right, it doesn't matter that she lied through her teeth repeatedly, cultivated a racist base, gleefully enjoyed the benefit of (and even encouraged) horrible character-assassinating distortions, kept company with Rush Limbaugh, ran her campaign into massive debt in a few months (great economic policy there), used the politics of fear, tried to rewrite history, and had the sincerity and compassion of a statue.
Despite all those and more perfectly gender-neutral character flaws... if we didn't hate women, we'd have voted for her. Right?
Keith Olbermann and his entourage of media and political pugnants were OBVIOUSLY sexist.
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