Also worth pointing out, judging from his appearance on The Daily Show this week, is that Webb is apparently a barely-animated block of wood, only without the charisma of same. He makes Al Gore seem exciting.
Affirmative action is racism. You can go back to making -0.23 to my every buck now, sweetie.
Or, you know, start another post that's really just a series of actual opinions followed by your half-ass commentary.
,.|..
He's problematic.
Erica, excellent post. Thanks for providing this perspective. I wasn't aware of all this about Webb, but I now agree with you that he shouldn't be selected as VP.
...unable to restrain her nether parts from seeking him.
That doesn't sound like a rape scene to me. It is unbelievably shitty writing however.
I'm really hoping Obama doesn't try to appeal to the center and pick someone awful like when Gore picked Lieberman. I'm sure that cost him some votes with the Nader crowd.
Webb would be a horrible choice, for the reasons you thoroughly lay out and because he is simply weird. Doesn't speak the same way other people speak, and is prickly and uncomfortable in interviews.
Obama must choose a running mate who does not serve as a lightning rod. That means no Webb, no Hillary, no Biden, no Nunn, no Daschle. He should choose someone (by which I mean a male, truth be told, because running with a non-Hillary female would create too many unmanageable cross-currents) with executive or military experience for whom nothing bad or uncomfortable turns up in the vetting process. This may mean Clark, Jones, Kaine, or Strickland. Or, he could run with an eminence grise, like George Mitchell (too bad John Danforth is a Republican)--the Lloyd Bentsen gambit. Or he could run with Al Gore, as James Carville suggested.
Personally, I would welcome a kick-ass figure from the business world with a liberal social bent, so as to better hammer away at the drunken-soldier fiscal habits of every GOP administration since Ronald Reagan, which John McCain pledges to continue. A Bob Rubin or Jon Corzine type, but without the Wall Street baggage.
I am pulling for Ted Strickland of Ohio
@6 -- Right now, the "Nader crowd" consists of about 27 hairy hippies, three guys with tinfoil hats and underwater MSFT options, and an old woman named Charity who collects cats.
Charitably stated, they are not a force and whether a VP candidate appeals to them or not should be given no consideration whatsoever.
I'd rather have a real man like Jim Webb backing me in a bar fight than a moonbat weenus like Dennis Kucinich.
@8 -- Looks like a non-starter: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/11/1130821.aspx
Strick has issued numerous Sherman statements about the veepship. Don't think that's going anywhere.
ECB -- Your frantic, throw-spaghetti-at-the-wall approach to arguing against Senator Webb reminds me of the Bush administration's tactic to gain support for the war.
The Confederate sympathy line in specific has no merit if you put the comments in the context mentioned in the Politico article -- he is honoring the spirit of his ancestors. Is it really so unconscionable to suggest that Confederates, largely too poor to be slaveholders, were patriots too? Or to suggest that states have a right to secede from the Union?
Looks like even Webb's hairpiece is backing away from that statement.
Also worth pointing out, his head is very meaty.
Webb is way too McCain. Maybe use him for the election then bottle him up like a good little VP.
#8, really? This guy?
"If drafted I will not run, nominated I will not accept and if elected I will not serve."
You know, this would've been a better post if you didn't add in those passages from his fictional writings. Devoid of context, there's no way to interpret them - how do I know whether this represents Webb's actual thoughts or just his depiction of character?
Why do that? Why ruin an otherwise plausible argument by throwing in a couple of bad examples just for the hell of it? It's a recurring theme in your posts, like the laundry-list-of-Hillary-sexism-quotes one.
@11: This comment is a bit off-topic, but after relocating to Savannah and studying the actual history of my new Antebellum home for the past year, I could not let your Neo-Confederate comments go undiscussed.
Before the ink was dry on the Constitution, the original drafters were arguing over its interpretation. Nothing in the Constitution gives an express right to secession. An activist interpretation--normally anathema to State's Rightists--could lead one to such a conclusion. But that would make it an opinion, not a constitutional fact. And if the Constitution was merely a contract between the States, what right do any signers after the original thirteen have to break it? (Excepting, possibly, the former Republic of Texas.) Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi were territories before they joined the United States. They signed up after the original document was approved.
Just because Johnny Reb was too poor to own a slave, it doesn't mean he didn't benefit from them. The real question is how many white Southern families owned slaves. A family of 5 may own one slave, equally a 20% ownership, but 100% of the family benefits. And being too poor to own a human slave didn't mean one didn't want to be or expect to become a slaveowner. Southern society was rocked in the 1850's by the class struggle between wealthier slave-owning whites and their poorer brethren. Editorials were rife with calls to expand the international slave trade in order to increase the supply and lower the price. North Carolina white supremacist Hinton R. Helper's The Impending Crisis of the South, published in 1857, is a great place to start.
Well, ECB, you've convinced me. How do I help get Webb drafted as Obama's veep? (You're dislike of the man is the best endorsement imaginable! I'm ready to vote for Obama if he chooses Webb. Otherwise I'm sticking with McCain.)
I heard Mark Twain hated black people. It's true, it's true- evidently he used the n-word.
why does ECB quote opinions of other people and write short replies for the majority of her slog posts? ECB, stop being lazy.
i don't know... if you want to appeal to people who are different than obama, you have to have someone who is different than obama. clinton is actually pretty close. He’s butch. He’s Southern. He two Purple Hearts. that's different. that might just seem a bit crazy if you like obama and clinton. but "we" aren't the ones webb is supposed to appeal to. just for the record, i don't think it seems like a great choice either...
"Most Southern soldiers viewed the driving issue to be sovereignty rather than slavery"
Did you not go to college? Hell, I learned this in high school.
@17, one might also argue that the preponderance of slave labor in the South actually hurt poor, non-slaveowning whites, since the labor market was awash in nearly free slave labor. I would imagine that would depress wages across the board.
Jump!
@4 has to be the most boring comment ever posted on Slog.
@ #19: Did you notice that that Slate article was written by TIM NOAH? I was wondering where that guy had gone ...
Oh, shit - never mind.
Holy Shit! If this asshole comes anywhere near Obama's campaign, it'll cause a stampede toward McCain!
Yeah, I've actually kind of shocked myself by coming around to the idea that maybe Hillary is the best choice for VP. I don't know that Webb would really hurt Obama that much with women (he's still better than McCain after all, and he's only the VP), but he's not gonna help much either. Unfortunately-- and I do blame Hillary for this-- there's now two constituencies Obama has to try to appease with his VP pick, women and white collar Appalachian voters (maybe old people too). Sebelius (sp?) might help with women, Webb might help with whitey, but no one has the potential to help with both except Clinton. It's just a shame she's pretty much forced her way into this position so now Obama looks weak by picking her.
Normally I disagree with ECB but she is SPOT on about Webb. Fuck bringing him into the administration. We can't forget that whoever is the VP is basically being fronted as the future face of the Democratic Party. Do we really want the Democrats to march to the right after the end of Obama's 8 years? Fuck that!
I've only been in this country for three election cycles, but in my opinion THE VP SELECTION DOESN'T MATTER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
I can remember when I thought Lieberman was an awesome choice. He'd sew up that right-wing-jewish vote! w00t! And then there was Edwards -- he'd pull in the good ol' southern vote! Double w00t!
Bah! The best VP candidate is the one who is irrelevant because the P candidate can run the table.
I do like his positions on the drug war, though: http://www.celebstoner.com/news/celebstoner-news/webb-for-weed.html
If Webb was elected VP that wouldn't mean the loss of a Democratic Senate seat. The Governor of Virginia is Democrat Tim Kaine, and he would be the one to select the replacement who would finish the last two years of Webb's term.
Not that I think Webb is a good choice, though.
Another point against Webb is that he isn't nearly as strong with the "Appalachian" (with whatever connotations you like) vote as he has been made out to be. He didn't do any better in the Appalachian parts of Virginia than previous candidates who lost statewide. Webb won by racking up big margins in the rapidly growing, left-leaning DC suburbs. Just cause Webb is a white guy who sympathizes with the Confederates doesn't mean he will do any better with, as Hillary put it, "hard-working white people."
that took 8 page downs to skip past
Well, ECB, you've convinced me. How do I help get Webb drafted as Obama's veep? (You're dislike of the man is the best endorsement imaginable! I'm ready to vote for Obama if he chooses Webb. Otherwise I'm sticking with McCain.)
I agree. Fiction should never contain any racist/sexists characters or anyone who does anything wrong. Anyone who writes a fictional character who expresses an opinion must share the opinion of that fictional character.
For instance, we know that Dr. Suess liked green eggs and ham or he could not have written a character that did.
He may be a creep, but he's our creep.
ECB -- Would you mind paring down this post to something that can be read in 2 minutes? I'm with you that Webb is probably a sexist asshole who'd also be really bad electoral calculus for Obama. But there's a more succinct way to make the case... And while you're at it, how about some research on Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius? She seems to be the perfect fit for the ticket.
really, like he stood a chance anyway.
what 40 said. you need to learn to edit yourself, erica. it would make you more convincing. take out the detritus others have mentioned here, i.e.: his writings out of context, and anything else that does not solidly support your point. then you wouldn't have put in a jump, if doing that goes against your grain.
"Either we are home to the most evil population on earth, or we are locking up a lot of people who really don't need to be in jail, for actions that other countries seem to handle in more constructive ways"
Yea, what an ass. We should be locking everyone up and throwing away the key. Erica, please show us the light!
Sebelius.
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