But what do I know? I'm not the manager of a long-leading-in-the-polls-but-now-stuck-in-second-place campaign, I guess.

Conversely we should start wars so long as we will have low casualties? And Clinton is considered a wonk?

Seems to me that it is not a good idea to get into a war unless you believe and will act as if must truly be a battle to the death.

That's why the God Obama and all the REAL DEMOCRATS are saying get out of the Philippines....no troops in South Korea...no troops in Turkey! None in Israel or Dubai or Kuwait! That's the consistent Obama position, isn't it? No troops anywhere!!

Oh wait that's not the Obama position that's the Ron Paul position. Well fuck that dumb bitch Hillary anyway!

Unity, consistency, unity, rah rah rah !!!!

Since they're the ones actually providing more than 90 percent of the funding for attacks on US forces worldwide.

I have to wonder if we transported the Clinton of today back to the late 60s what her position on the Vietnam War might be. I suspect it would be a lot closer to McCain's than the Hillary of the 1960s.

If we announce we're leaving, it'll create a strong incentive for the government to get its shit together. That's about as best as can be hoped for I think.

There is no equivalent in the Iraq of 2008. The Iraqis don't want us there. We marched into their country uninvited because Bush (correctly) believed that the majority of Americans were gullible enough to believe Saddam Hussein was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Now we're stuck there--chaos if we stay and chaos if we leave. My guess is the only thing that will bring stability to Iraq is the emergence of a strongman dictatorship who will put a lid on the sectarian violence. In other words, we overthrew one monstrous dictator and created the conditions for another one to take his place. Were 4000 American and countless thousands Iraqi lives worth it?

She Ain't pretending!

There were no cheering crowds like there were in France. In 1945, your typical German was happy the war was over, happy to be rid of Hitler, but still wary of the Americans (although certainly not as wary as of the Soviets) and painfully aware of his country's defeat and occupation. Over the next few years, numerous conflicts flared between the occupation authorities and the German populace over specific decisions and the degree of German autonomy. (There was, for example, a riot in Munich when the Americans decided that, to ensure an adaquate food supply, yeast would be used for bread instead of beer.)

I'd say that the situations in Germany and Iraq at the start of their respective occupations were rather closly analogous. The analogy diverges to the extent that the U.S. then proceeded to totally botch the occupation of Iraq, whereas it pulled off the occupation of Germany pretty well. (That may have something to do with the fact that the troop:population ratio in Germany was 1:10, but was only 1:200 in Iraq.)

Suppose when our Civil War broke out, some other nation decided it would be in our best interest to invade. Whose side would they choose, or would they simply battle both sides, and then decide for us what kind of government we should have.

And we, being too fragile after the war to take care of ourselves, rebuild our own infrastructure, and live in peace with one another, needed to be occupied for the next 100 years. Just the necessary troops to maintain the peace, and make sure that the system of government they installed stayed in place - regardless of what we ourselves wanted.

Or - imagine if, because of the sins committed by our current administration, it happened today. How long would we let them stay? When would we stopping trying to kill them? I doubt we would stop while one remained.

But because we "broke it" we should continue to sacrifice our young men and women? How about we train everyone who supports the war and let them go. How about we send the sons and daughters of those who don't mind making the sacrifice.

However, Republicans who disagree with the how the war has been run and know that the gas tax holiday is total bullshit could be pursuaded if Obama stays strong.