Slog - Comments on Rejecting and Denouncing http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing John McCain rejects, after months of controversy, the endorsement of Rev. John Hagee. (Hey, everyone's gotta reject a pastor this campaign season...) McCain went on to point out that, unlike a certain Democratic rival, he hadn't actually gone to Hagee's church. In the denouncing department, McCain is furious with Barack Obama for criticizing him today on the Senate floor over a vote on a bill that would expand veterans benefits. War-hero McCain found himself in the difficult position of voting against the bill while 25 of his Republican colleagues voted for it, helping it to pass. Said Obama: I respect... Copyright 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 15:55:54 -0800 Fri, 23 May 2008 06:44:56 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by elenchos Telling potential recruits you have to re-enlist to get the full benefits makes it a harder sell. Whereas giving greater benefits after only one term is more attractive. So if the bill that passed cause some to leave sooner rather than reenlist, it will also bring in more new troops. It's a wash.

]]> elenchos http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030332 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030332 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 16:03:54 -0800 Comment by Ziggity Wow - if he gets this long-winded when he loses a floor vote, how long will his concession speech be in November?

]]> Ziggity http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030333 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030333 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 16:05:55 -0800 Comment by brett shorter mccain:

this bill would discourage soldiers from re-enlisting in an endless, unwinnable war that I helped start, therefore I cannot support it.

]]> brett http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030335 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030335 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 16:08:00 -0800 Comment by Jeff Tl;dr

]]> Jeff http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030337 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030337 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 16:09:14 -0800 Comment by lostboy Worth noting: the existing system offers the same benefits to 1-termers as to career soldiers.

And it's been around since long before the current retention problem started.

]]> lostboy http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030351 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030351 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 16:16:43 -0800 Comment by heh note: McCain hasn't bothered to show up in DC to vote on anything since March, apparently...

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/votes/

]]> heh http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030356 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030356 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 16:20:55 -0800 Comment by monkey That's pretty fucking high and mighty from Mr. "Bomb Bomb Iran".

]]> monkey http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030388 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030388 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 16:39:39 -0800 Comment by Tiktok shorter mccain:

this bill would discourage soldiers from re-enlisting in an endless, unwinnable war that I helped start, therefore I cannot support it.

Bang. Fucking. On.

]]> Tiktok http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030389 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030389 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 16:40:38 -0800 Comment by CP @1, it's easier to retain folks than find new ones - esp. lately!

And experienced NCO's count for quite a bit, esp. when there's an actual shooting war going on.

Still waiting for a Republican to stand up and say this stuff's expensive and we need to worry about deficits (this week.) Maybe W. will if he tries to veto it. C'mon, W., say something stupid...

]]> CP http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030425 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030425 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 17:23:42 -0800 Comment by CP Oh, and add this to the list of things that McCain is older than: Pearl Harbor attack!

]]> CP http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030430 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030430 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 17:29:39 -0800 Comment by calvin McCain's is a very good answer, sure to impress many. He is speaking to a VAST electorate of his generation that we underestimate at our great peril. He really sounds like a Democrat, in the way he carefully explains his position, a lot like Kerry or Obama himself.
This is going to be a tough election, make no mistake.

]]> calvin http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030464 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030464 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 18:52:01 -0800 Comment by Heather I still say we should give him back to Vietnam.

]]> Heather http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030465 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030465 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 18:54:15 -0800 Comment by Trevor This is like that argument that if you had a decent welfare system then no one would want to work a shitty job for starvation wages.

Heaven forbid that poor people would have an option for receiving medical benefits other than serving in the military! And heaven forbid that the military might become too generous with its benefits! Without being forced by poverty into "service", how many people would be idealistic enough to really WANT to serve as part of the US military occupation of Iraq?

]]> Trevor http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030473 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030473 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 19:04:37 -0800 Comment by Catalina Vel-DuRay Oh. My. God. Old people can really prattle on, can't they? If he tries to yammer on like that to the American public at large, they'll lose him after 15 seconds.

]]> Catalina Vel-DuRay http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030479 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030479 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 19:27:36 -0800 Comment by Ryan Oh, but I can't wait for McCain to have to defend this bullshit during the debates.

]]> Ryan http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030514 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030514 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 21:10:11 -0800 Comment by DanFan I feel safe saying this since comments on this post seem to have tapered off: I REALLY (and I mean REALLY) hate to admit this, but he's got a good point. Career soldiers are career soldiers because they WANT to be, because they LOVE what they do, and because they are GOOD at it. They aren't the ones that are in for the benefits. Of course there are exceptions to that "rule" but that is the majority. Having spent 7 years serving, I think I can safely say that. Anyone who joins at this point has to know that they are going to deploy. Anyone who says their recruiter told them they would never deploy is full of shit. I also agree that soldiers that serve longer should get better benefits. A lot of people enlist because of the initial benefits (e.g., enlistment bonuses, tuition reimbursement) but decide it's not for them and get out after three years. They're no less honorable than the ones that serve for 20 or 30, but they did sacrifice much less than the lifers and should be compensated as such.

]]> DanFan http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030520 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030520 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 21:40:09 -0800 Comment by Lose-Lose fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck... there are no boobies or swear words, how am I s'pozed to get through it? Can someone please summarize what those 8,000,000 words were trying to say?

]]> Lose-Lose http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030530 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030530 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 22:24:04 -0800 Comment by Jamey What calvin said @11.

McCain is using the kind of language that grabs middle America. Veterans understand this logic. Obama supporters better get ready for a battle. I think it is going to get really ugly and you all know McCain has a decent chance of winning this thing.

]]> Jamey http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030551 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030551 2008 Thu, 22 May 2008 23:37:22 -0800 Comment by Bitterly Remembering The Last Time 16 --- DanFan, True. However, some cherry probably has the same chance of getting killed his first patrol as the guy beside him who may be in his second, or even 3rd, rotation. 11 & 18, Spot on, I agree.

Our people in uniform have volunteered to put themselves in harms way. The LEAST we can do for them is pay for their education after they get out.

]]> Bitterly Remembering The Last Time http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030562 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030562 2008 Fri, 23 May 2008 01:49:36 -0800 Comment by NaFun If this is the level of debate, then I say "Right ON!" I loves me a wonky debate that makes me feel like I learned something instead of trading talking points.

]]> NaFun http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030573 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030573 2008 Fri, 23 May 2008 06:17:17 -0800 Comment by steve Parts of that speech sound an awful lot like "You can beat be in November if you make Senator Webb your running mate."

]]> steve http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030577 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/rejecting_and_denouncing#c1030577 2008 Fri, 23 May 2008 06:44:56 -0800