Comments on Old School

I'm guessing they'd last about ten minutes until the rednecks beat the shit out of them for defiling the Stars and Bars.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Confederate Battle Flag has zilch to do with the Confederacy or the Civil War or slavery. It has EVERYTHING to do with segregation and opposition to Civil Rights. It became a symbol and a rallying cry in the 1960s, not the 1860s. Before the civil rights movement, you couldn't find one southerner in a thousand who even knew what that flag was. It stands for one thing and one thing only: keeping blacks out of white schools and white lunchrooms and white bus seats by force of law. Pride? That's nothing to be proud of.

That principal shouldn't be reprimanded and forced to change his mind; he should be fired, and have his pension rights revoked.

Stars n' More Bars.

I have a tattoo of that flag . . .

Maybe global warming isn't such a bad thing.

We should just turn the flag upside down! That'd show them!

Someone should burn those Confederate flags for them.

Can you imagine being a gay black man in the South? Whew, that's almost too scary to think about.

There are no gay racists? I find that hard to believe.

I NEED this t-shirt.

Can you fit a pink triangle somewhere in that traitorous flag?

Thanks!

Fnarf, slavery in America and segregation both have the same roots as they were both based on race. Getting out of slavery was a fight for civil rights. They may have brought back that flag for a rallying point but it always stood for the same ideals nonetheless.

Its an all white school and is named after Puerto Rico's Ponce de Leon?

He was born in Spain, which makes him white I guess. Seeing as he died in 1521, we can even forgive him for being Catholic.

Nice job teaching about free speech rights. You can express your opinions, except if you're a homo. Score one for the thought police.

Confederate flags are loser flags.

Stupid Question Alert From Someone Who's Never Been To Florida:

Why does Florida have such a large gay community with an influx that seems to be accelerating?

Is the sunshine really worth more than basic civil rights to them?

Are there counties and/or cities in Florida that are very liberated in civil rights laws that just happen to strongly contrast the rest of the state?

Or do they feel it isn't that much better in the more liberated states anyway, so who gives a fuck?

@9: The KKGay exists, sadly, and they're everywhere. Even in Seattle, a good friend of mine was this close to being denied a job just because she was not white, basically. Thankfully, someone else higher up, i believe, threatened to leave if my friend was turned down for that reason, so she got the job. Still. Yes, the KKGay.

Ya'll it wasn't the Civil War, it was the war of Northern Aggression. (said while batting my eyelashes and swishing my hoop skirt)

And it isn't the stars 'n bars, it's the confederate flag. Wikipedia is quite detailed in its discussion of the flag for anyone who cares.

p.s. Just in case, please note paragraph 1 is sarcastic and I have no actual opinion about the confederate flag.

There's a gay bar in Leipzig, Germany, that has a Confederate flag theme in it, the New Orleans American Bar. It has confederate flags right next to American flags, right next to gay pride flags, right next to leather pride flags. I find it a bit disconcerting to visit.

Stars n' Gay Bars

El Seven, the flag didn't stand for ANYTHING in the intervening years, because it was not a popular symbol. No one in the South gave a shit about the Confederate flag. Few of them would even have recognized it. It's only later, in the fifties and especially in the sixties that it started to be used to stand for "Southern Pride" in a way that meant "segregation". It's just part of the way that Southern racists have adopted a new view of their own history in an attempt to justify their repellent beliefs with fake history.

For another example: William Tecumseh Sherman, the man who "burned the South". I was beat up in a Dallas high school just for saying those words on a dare to the wrong person. But the reality is, Sherman didn't burn the South, and wasn't widely hated there after the war. Only later, in response to integration, did the racists build a new myth around him.

You should read "Confederates In The Attic" by Tony Horwitz for a fascinating look at how the Myth of the South came to be. The "Civil War" started in people's minds in the 1950s and 60s, and is still going on today -- it's not the war you read about in history class.

It's actually very similar to the psychology of people in Northern Ireland. There's a scene in Mike Leigh's film "Four Days in July" where a small Protestant boy says his granddad fought in the Battle of Boyne -- which took place in 1690. Similarly, I've seen black activists in this decade carrying signs that read "my grandfather was a slave", which can't possibly be true.

Funny how people's minds work.

It's also worth pointing out that the so-called Confederate flag has been used over the last 50 years in northern states as a symbol of segregation, too. James Loewen documents some of its appearances outside of the South in prominent sundown towns in his book on that subject. And of course, lots of outright Nazis around the country use the Confederate flag.

That flag is a symbol of racism, period. I don't doubt that some of its supporters are Southern good-old boys who think it stands for a regional heritage going back more than 50 years, but that doesn't change its actual hitory.

I just don't see it that way, Fnarf. That flag was carried into battles in a war where the primary aim was to keep the status quo, which at the time was to own slaves. 100 years later, it was used as a symbol for what was essentially the same thing but without the bullets and fancy horses. Actual slavery or implied slavery, it's all the same to me.

I don't know if "grandfather was a slave" was used literally. It's quite possible that people are referring to their ancestors' status under the Jim Crow atmosphere that prevailed after the war.

You don't notice the smell of your own home.

I grew up in Florida and lived there until I was 25. Man, I am glad I'm out of that hell-hole. Twisted shit like this is par for the course

@19

Ya'll it wasn't the Civil War, it was the war of Northern Aggression. (said while batting my eyelashes and swishing my hoop skirt)

Oh, honey--bless your heart--I think you mean "The Recent Unpleasantness." *swish, swish*

I get what you're saying, El Seven, but I think you're missing the point. The flag may have been carried into battle occasionally, but in the intervening 100 years it was not a symbol of anything -- it was unknown.

It meant less to Southerners than, say, the 38-star US flag means to you and me -- nothing much, just "old". Just as virtually no one can tell you how many stars were on the US flag during the Civil War, or what flags if any US troops may have flown at the head of their battle units, no one in the South saw it, if they saw it at all, which is unlikely, as anything other than "way back then".

Even DURING the Civil War, it was not a symbol of anything, and was not the main CSA flag, and would never have been flown or displayed for any other purpose than as an actual battle ensign.

It was only in the 60s that it started to appear as a sign of resistance to integration. That's the FIRST time it appeared on state flags, for instance.

My point is that when you are seeing one, you are not seeing a remembrance of the Civil War. It has nothing to do with the Civil War, and it has nothing to do with Southern Pride. It means one thing, and one thing only: resistance to integration.

I would like to bring back the flag "Don't Tread on Me" for New England Independence.

As for Florida? Is it me or is there like NOTHING to do there but drink? You go to the beach, you drink, you go out clubbing, you get hammered, you hang with your grandmother, you drink.

Sit on the porch ... and drink. Compensating for the lack of anything interesting by drinking.

Fnarf: Missippi still displays the battle ensign in the upper left of its state flag, and it was not kept there by accident, oversight or a lack of understanding of its implications; it is after all, Missippi.

Yes, and Mississippi is remembering with pride its hateful behavior during the civil rights era. Every Mississippian should be embarrassed by that; I'm certainly embarrassed by them, as an American.

If reading an anti-discrimination slogan is such a short leap to "conjuring mental images of gay sex", you've got some soul searching to do.

Racism is gay.

I still disagree with you Fnarf but now I don't know why.

My work here is finished! [wink] Don't worry, El Seven, we're on the same side.

No one made a "ponce" joke yet???