Slog - Comments on Old School

Comment by Tiktok

Tiktok — Tue, 13 May 2008 09:40:08 -0800

I'm guessing they'd last about ten minutes until the rednecks beat the shit out of them for defiling the Stars and Bars.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Tue, 13 May 2008 09:41:18 -0800

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the Confederate Battle Flag has zilch to do with the Confederacy or the Civil War or slavery. It has EVERYTHING to do with segregation and opposition to Civil Rights. It became a symbol and a rallying cry in the 1960s, not the 1860s. Before the civil rights movement, you couldn't find one southerner in a thousand who even knew what that flag was. It stands for one thing and one thing only: keeping blacks out of white schools and white lunchrooms and white bus seats by force of law. Pride? That's nothing to be proud of.

That principal shouldn't be reprimanded and forced to change his mind; he should be fired, and have his pension rights revoked.

Comment by spumomi

spumomi — Tue, 13 May 2008 09:42:11 -0800

Stars n' More Bars.

Comment by Michigan Matt (soon to be Balt-o-matt)

Michigan Matt (soon to be Balt-o-matt) — Tue, 13 May 2008 09:45:35 -0800

I have a tattoo of that flag . . .

Comment by monkey

monkey — Tue, 13 May 2008 09:47:22 -0800

Maybe global warming isn't such a bad thing.

Comment by Greg

Greg — Tue, 13 May 2008 09:48:12 -0800

We should just turn the flag upside down! That'd show them!

Comment by Will in Seattle

Will in Seattle — Tue, 13 May 2008 09:50:29 -0800

Someone should burn those Confederate flags for them.

Comment by Fifty-Two-Eighty

Fifty-Two-Eighty — Tue, 13 May 2008 09:51:31 -0800

Can you imagine being a gay black man in the South? Whew, that's almost too scary to think about.

Comment by jackie treehorn

jackie treehorn — Tue, 13 May 2008 09:58:15 -0800

There are no gay racists? I find that hard to believe.

Comment by Baxter

Baxter — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:03:11 -0800

I NEED this t-shirt.

Comment by Mr. X

Mr. X — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:04:47 -0800

Can you fit a pink triangle somewhere in that traitorous flag?

Thanks!

Comment by El Seven

El Seven — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:09:05 -0800

Fnarf, slavery in America and segregation both have the same roots as they were both based on race. Getting out of slavery was a fight for civil rights. They may have brought back that flag for a rallying point but it always stood for the same ideals nonetheless.

Comment by SeMe

SeMe — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:11:03 -0800

Its an all white school and is named after Puerto Rico's Ponce de Leon?

Comment by Luke

Luke — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:17:02 -0800

He was born in Spain, which makes him white I guess. Seeing as he died in 1521, we can even forgive him for being Catholic.

Comment by Reverse Polarity

Reverse Polarity — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:18:02 -0800

Nice job teaching about free speech rights. You can express your opinions, except if you're a homo. Score one for the thought police.

Comment by Smade

Smade — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:27:19 -0800

Confederate flags are loser flags.

Comment by mackro mackro

mackro mackro — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:37:38 -0800

Stupid Question Alert From Someone Who's Never Been To Florida:

Why does Florida have such a large gay community with an influx that seems to be accelerating?

Is the sunshine really worth more than basic civil rights to them?

Are there counties and/or cities in Florida that are very liberated in civil rights laws that just happen to strongly contrast the rest of the state?

Or do they feel it isn't that much better in the more liberated states anyway, so who gives a fuck?

Comment by mackro mackro

mackro mackro — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:43:30 -0800

@9: The KKGay exists, sadly, and they're everywhere. Even in Seattle, a good friend of mine was this close to being denied a job just because she was not white, basically. Thankfully, someone else higher up, i believe, threatened to leave if my friend was turned down for that reason, so she got the job. Still. Yes, the KKGay.

Comment by PopTart

PopTart — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:47:39 -0800

Ya'll it wasn't the Civil War, it was the war of Northern Aggression. (said while batting my eyelashes and swishing my hoop skirt)

And it isn't the stars 'n bars, it's the confederate flag. Wikipedia is quite detailed in its discussion of the flag for anyone who cares.

p.s. Just in case, please note paragraph 1 is sarcastic and I have no actual opinion about the confederate flag.

Comment by tqe / Adam

tqe / Adam — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:59:13 -0800

There's a gay bar in Leipzig, Germany, that has a Confederate flag theme in it, the New Orleans American Bar. It has confederate flags right next to American flags, right next to gay pride flags, right next to leather pride flags. I find it a bit disconcerting to visit.

Comment by Mahtli69

Mahtli69 — Tue, 13 May 2008 11:00:20 -0800

Stars n' Gay Bars

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Tue, 13 May 2008 11:29:45 -0800

El Seven, the flag didn't stand for ANYTHING in the intervening years, because it was not a popular symbol. No one in the South gave a shit about the Confederate flag. Few of them would even have recognized it. It's only later, in the fifties and especially in the sixties that it started to be used to stand for "Southern Pride" in a way that meant "segregation". It's just part of the way that Southern racists have adopted a new view of their own history in an attempt to justify their repellent beliefs with fake history.

For another example: William Tecumseh Sherman, the man who "burned the South". I was beat up in a Dallas high school just for saying those words on a dare to the wrong person. But the reality is, Sherman didn't burn the South, and wasn't widely hated there after the war. Only later, in response to integration, did the racists build a new myth around him.

You should read "Confederates In The Attic" by Tony Horwitz for a fascinating look at how the Myth of the South came to be. The "Civil War" started in people's minds in the 1950s and 60s, and is still going on today -- it's not the war you read about in history class.

It's actually very similar to the psychology of people in Northern Ireland. There's a scene in Mike Leigh's film "Four Days in July" where a small Protestant boy says his granddad fought in the Battle of Boyne -- which took place in 1690. Similarly, I've seen black activists in this decade carrying signs that read "my grandfather was a slave", which can't possibly be true.

Funny how people's minds work.

Comment by Cascadian

Cascadian — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:08:58 -0800

It's also worth pointing out that the so-called Confederate flag has been used over the last 50 years in northern states as a symbol of segregation, too. James Loewen documents some of its appearances outside of the South in prominent sundown towns in his book on that subject. And of course, lots of outright Nazis around the country use the Confederate flag.

That flag is a symbol of racism, period. I don't doubt that some of its supporters are Southern good-old boys who think it stands for a regional heritage going back more than 50 years, but that doesn't change its actual hitory.

Comment by El Seven

El Seven — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:15:29 -0800

I just don't see it that way, Fnarf. That flag was carried into battles in a war where the primary aim was to keep the status quo, which at the time was to own slaves. 100 years later, it was used as a symbol for what was essentially the same thing but without the bullets and fancy horses. Actual slavery or implied slavery, it's all the same to me.

I don't know if "grandfather was a slave" was used literally. It's quite possible that people are referring to their ancestors' status under the Jim Crow atmosphere that prevailed after the war.

Comment by umvue

umvue — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:32:57 -0800

You don't notice the smell of your own home.

Comment by tco

tco — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:38:11 -0800

I grew up in Florida and lived there until I was 25. Man, I am glad I'm out of that hell-hole. Twisted shit like this is par for the course

Comment by Darcy

Darcy — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:56:15 -0800

@19

Ya'll it wasn't the Civil War, it was the war of Northern Aggression. (said while batting my eyelashes and swishing my hoop skirt)

Oh, honey--bless your heart--I think you mean "The Recent Unpleasantness." *swish, swish*

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:03:46 -0800

I get what you're saying, El Seven, but I think you're missing the point. The flag may have been carried into battle occasionally, but in the intervening 100 years it was not a symbol of anything -- it was unknown.

It meant less to Southerners than, say, the 38-star US flag means to you and me -- nothing much, just "old". Just as virtually no one can tell you how many stars were on the US flag during the Civil War, or what flags if any US troops may have flown at the head of their battle units, no one in the South saw it, if they saw it at all, which is unlikely, as anything other than "way back then".

Even DURING the Civil War, it was not a symbol of anything, and was not the main CSA flag, and would never have been flown or displayed for any other purpose than as an actual battle ensign.

It was only in the 60s that it started to appear as a sign of resistance to integration. That's the FIRST time it appeared on state flags, for instance.

My point is that when you are seeing one, you are not seeing a remembrance of the Civil War. It has nothing to do with the Civil War, and it has nothing to do with Southern Pride. It means one thing, and one thing only: resistance to integration.

Comment by OR Matt

OR Matt — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:30:41 -0800

I would like to bring back the flag "Don't Tread on Me" for New England Independence.

As for Florida? Is it me or is there like NOTHING to do there but drink? You go to the beach, you drink, you go out clubbing, you get hammered, you hang with your grandmother, you drink.

Sit on the porch ... and drink. Compensating for the lack of anything interesting by drinking.

Comment by inkweary

inkweary — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:34:42 -0800

Fnarf: Missippi still displays the battle ensign in the upper left of its state flag, and it was not kept there by accident, oversight or a lack of understanding of its implications; it is after all, Missippi.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:45:22 -0800

Yes, and Mississippi is remembering with pride its hateful behavior during the civil rights era. Every Mississippian should be embarrassed by that; I'm certainly embarrassed by them, as an American.

Comment by Dougsf

Dougsf — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:57:07 -0800

If reading an anti-discrimination slogan is such a short leap to "conjuring mental images of gay sex", you've got some soul searching to do.

Comment by fwoosh

fwoosh — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:59:29 -0800

Racism is gay.

Comment by El Seven

El Seven — Tue, 13 May 2008 14:19:29 -0800

I still disagree with you Fnarf but now I don't know why.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Tue, 13 May 2008 14:37:24 -0800

My work here is finished! [wink] Don't worry, El Seven, we're on the same side.

Comment by Ellie

Ellie — Wed, 14 May 2008 05:46:42 -0800

No one made a "ponce" joke yet???