Slog - Comments on Council Committee To Approve Park Cameras http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera Tomorrow's meeting of the city council's parks committee (at which council members are expected to approve additional cameras in public parks) won't be as dramatic as the one four weeks ago, in part because the big argument has already been settled. Having written an indignant letter blasting Mayor Greg Nickels for spending an unauthorized $150,000 on four cameras in Cal Anderson Park, the council is expected to approve eight additional cameras tomorrow, along with a protocol dictating how the footage from cameras can be used. Among other things, the cameras could only record video, not sound; would have to be... Copyright 2008 Thu, 29 May 2008 16:09:19 -0800 Fri, 30 May 2008 06:06:41 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by Will in Seattle Not only do they not work, they also frequently have resulted in incorrect identifications that in our current gun-happy shoot-first-torture-second culture will result in numerous Seattle citizens being subject to arbitrary arrest, search, and seizure.

While all the white guys in business suits will continue buying drugs, the sk8rbois and gurls will be harassed cause they "look like" the image.

So, instead of Driving While Black, we'll have Walking Like Homeless arrests.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1034980 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1034980 2008 Thu, 29 May 2008 16:18:08 -0800 Comment by elenchos It's $850k up front, right? Plus a much smaller amount per year for operation and maintenance. Seems like you have to amortize that out over 10 years or more and then see how many cops you could have hired with that money. Just rounding it up to a million dollars and calling it pointless without suggesting how much public safety we could alternatively have for the same slice of the yearly budget doesn't clear it up for me.

Also, Erica, what about that caller's question you misunderstood when you were on KUOW? What if the camera records alleged police brutality and the tape disappears or is allowed to be recorded over after 2 weeks? Will that be addressed, such as by web casting the video? Or giving someone outside the SPD some physical control over a copy of the tape?

I mostly agree with the points against the cameras you list, but I wonder... If crime remains constant, but some of the drugs and prostitution are pushed out of the parks, is that so bad? Seems like we could get more use out of our parks then.

@1 Will, what the hell are you talking about?

]]> elenchos http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035003 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035003 2008 Thu, 29 May 2008 16:33:26 -0800 Comment by Frank Our Mayor is becoming the man he ran against a few years ago, willing to use crime fighting efforts that violate personal privacy, waste money, and don't work, while attempting to provide simple solutions to complex problems, or sometimes, even non-existent problems. It's time for a serious progressive to run for Mayor. Who can then replace the Chief of Police.

Please Mr.Steinbrueck, please run.


....oh and hey Greg, while you're wasting money not fighting crime, please keep ignoring the crack dealers in Belltown. Brilliant! You're an idiot sir. Really.

]]> Frank http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035007 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035007 2008 Thu, 29 May 2008 16:34:57 -0800 Comment by flamingbanjo Public officials love intrusive technology. The rationalizations for buying them at great taxpayer expense are often paper-thin. They may as well be ordering digital egg-timer/blood pressure readers/barometers from the Sharper Image catalog. It's all about shopping for fancy toys. And a weird fixation with spy gadgets, probably related to half-remembered James Bond movies.

They provide almost no public benefit, certainly not commensurate with their cost.

]]> flamingbanjo http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035011 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035011 2008 Thu, 29 May 2008 16:37:16 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Sadly, Frank is right @3.

And when the camera feed is hacked by some kid, a lot of city council members doing drug deals and hiring prostitutes are going to look mighty silly ...

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035076 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035076 2008 Thu, 29 May 2008 17:14:30 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle So, can we citizens install cameras outside the homes of city council and mayoral staff and electeds to watch them 24/7 and arrest them for operating gasoline blowers used by their illegal immigrant gardeners during quiet times?

Fair is fair ... you want us to live in a fishbowl, you have to live in a much more intrusive fishbowl first.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035081 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035081 2008 Thu, 29 May 2008 17:19:01 -0800 Comment by Phil M In the city crime statistics document Erica referenced, under Cal Anderson
Park, is the following:

  • 140 Exclusions (2007)
  • 7-10 Armed / Strong Arm Robberies ; 3 actually in the park (2007)
  • 8-11 Aggravated Assaults; 3 actually in the park (2007)
  • 40-75 Thefts (2007)
  • 16 Drug Arrests (2007)
  • 26 Calls to 911 for drug activity (2007)
  • 20 Police on-views of drug activity (2007)
  • 514 Calls for Premise Checks (2007)
  • 86 Miscellaneous Misdemeanor Calls (2007)
  • 40 Public Disturbance Calls (2007)

How many of these incidents were "actually in the park"? Where did the others happen, and why are they even listed here?

]]> Phil M http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035102 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035102 2008 Thu, 29 May 2008 17:36:20 -0800 Comment by unwelcomed @6

It is curious that the city, perfectly happy to focus cameras on it's citizens, doesn't do the same for it's employees.

Especially curious that the city still hasn't put cameras in it's police precincts to monitor areas where detainees are held, transfered, and interrogated because police union members, who would be monitoring the cameras watching us, don't like being watched themselves.

]]> unwelcomed http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035217 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035217 2008 Thu, 29 May 2008 23:04:19 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle We need cameras in the council toilets, and soon.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035237 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035237 2008 Fri, 30 May 2008 00:24:35 -0800 Comment by Mahtli69 Maybe it would be more effective to just drive one of the already-camera-equipped Metro buses in circles around the parks all day and hope it catches the action.

]]> Mahtli69 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035260 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/05/council_committee_to_approve_park_camera#c1035260 2008 Fri, 30 May 2008 06:06:41 -0800