Comments on Breaking Viaduct News: Ideas Needed To Solve Problems

appoint Cary Moon "Viaduct Czar". do what she says. fuck WSDOT.

ditto that. maybe Robert Mak could translate that mess

We are SOOOO overdue for an earthquake in Seattle, sooooo overdue. Then we can get rid of the viaduct (along with a few SUV's and their drivers) and since it is a recession we will not be able to afford to rebuild it and go with the surface option.

Yeah, I am dreaming of a disaster: Viaduct collapse crushing a bunch of SUV driving GOP voters... ahhhhhh!!

Well I agree with Chris, Ron, and Greg's bold, visionary plan to oppose bad things and support good things. I share their dislike of what is bad and furthermore I also share their liking of what is good. The easy political way out would be to pander to everyone, including those who hate good things, but they're willing to risk offending the entire anti-good/pro-bad voting bloc, and that takes a very special kind of courage.

But ECB, I thought your solution to the viaduct was to wish it away or replace it with big, green fields of grass where bunny rabbits and children can laugh and play. That will solve the problem for good!

I hope it's a monorail or a high-speed commuter bike trail.

@1 has the best idea.

But, realistically, we have to start from the givens:

1. DOUBLE all bus and monorail and waterfront streetcar transit from current levels - both in frequency and quantity. Within 4-6 blocks of the impacted area. ... NOW ... not later. Yes, that means buying a spare monorail.

2. Kill mercilessly all tunnel options other than the slightly recessed roadway with pedestrian/road/streetcar overpasses. Full cover solutions make no sense, other than as rain diverters. Narrow the list down to:

A. surface plus EVEN MORE TRANSIT than mentioned in (1).

B. elevated rebuild - axe the fake options for keeping existing structure with supports, won't work.

or C. aforementioned Cut No Cover option.

As construction starts, convert all parking lanes N-S adjacent to construction sites (exception: Pike Market) to bus/transit/bike/motorcycle/taxi only lanes. No parking. Use E-W streets for parking instead and the increased bus transit.

Oh, and the most important thing - stop whining.

My translation is "We're going to tear down the viaduct and not replace it with anything, and we'll do whatever else we can to limit the traffic impact, but since that's going to freak people out we can't come out and say it yet so you'll get this meaningless blather instead."

Outside of the central portion, there will likely be some combination of rebuild/retrofit. There will certainly be a transit component. Who knows, maybe they'll find some way to put a partial tunnel in somewhere nearby for a portion of traffic. Then they can claim they're using multiple options when in reality they're just delivering the only sensible option: surface + transit.

We're working hard to reach a solution that makes the most sense. We have until the end of this year. We cannot and will not spend the next five years debating and studying.

I'm happy to take their word on this one. But come 2009, whatever their decision is, they need to follow through on it, unequivocally, even if it ends up costing every one of them reelection. If you're an elected official, are you holding your office just to hold office or are you holding your office to actually accomplish something? There comes a time when those two choices are mutually exclusive and a politician has to pick one. ... Or neither. Or just not make a choice. Hey, it's Seattle.

Re. max solomon @1: The day Cary Moon decides to run for elective office in Seattle is the day I write a check to her campaign. Well, if by that day I haven't given up on Seattle myself.

have i mentioned lately that Cary Moon is one attractive woman?

No, but you're spot on, @10.

Jeesus, this trio isn't going to do a damn thing. Their "duck and cover" role (along with the entire city council) in bringing the useless "advisory" vote to the people should clue us all in to the "courage" they have towards finding a real solution.

@3 has correctly identified what will solve the viaduct problem, I just hope my transit riding ass isn't on the lower deck when the thing crushes the 55 along with all those SUVs.

Sucks how the Times won't let me bitch about their crappy editorial in the comments. Comments should come standard.

Tear the fucking thing down already. Reclaim the unused space underneath the existing viaduct and make that northbound traffic. Alaskan Way will carry southbound traffic. Train tracks in the middle will remain the train tracks in the middle. Build a new connector ramp to the Battery tunnel and call it done.

When it's all said and done, vehicle capacity will be pretty close to what it is now. Sync the stoplights and bias the timing in favor of north/south traffic so everything moves during rush hour.

I'm all for mass transit, but worrying too much about that for a couple miles of waterfront road will accomplish two things: jack and shit.

Keep it simple, stupid. Greg, Ron, and Chris are engaged in a big sloppy circle jerk, and they're not even close to coming yet (Greg can't even keep it hard).

No matter what ultimately happens to the viaduct - whether they rebuild it, do the surface street option, or let it fall down in 2011 and crush hundreds of people in their cars - one thing is certain: The complaints generated by the 2/3rds of the population that's going to be pissed will be insignificant compared to the discourse we've heard so far. Meanwhile, nothing happens.

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Hey! How about adding transit capacity thru a grade separated system....since we can't afford to put it underground, let's elevate it!

If it costs too much, I am sure the state will help by kicking in a few hundred million. Just not charging sales tax would help a lot.

And think of what they would save if they don't have to spend billions on a viaduct replacement! They could surely throw in a billion, if they don't have to spend 4 or 5 billion on a new highway!

I am sure the City would help. After all, it seems like now that their viaduct tunnel is dead, they know they need more north south capacity in this corridor.

Obviously they would support a new transit line, and they wouldn't charge it for the right of way, which could go anywhere along the waterfront, or above one of the avenues!

Of course, Sound Transit will step up and help out, too, since grade separated transit in the hwy 99 corridor will carry riders to and from light rail, too.

Wow. Just think -- we could add new capacity to replace the Viaduct capacity!
Well, we don't want a highway but we need some kind of capacity and we can't cram everyone onto all the existing surface streets even if we add lots of busses -- so we need a grade separated rapid transit line!

Duh!!

It's so obvious, this is a no brainer -- especially with the State, the County, Sound Transit and the City saying they will all act together for solutions (great idea!) and even think in multi-dimensions!!

What this Op-Ed says to me...the big 3 still don't agree on this.

My guess is;

The Gov: Trying to figure out how she can keep her 'options open' until after November’s election (but still show progress is being made).

The Exec: Trying to figure out how to do congestion pricing and get Julia Patterson, Bob Ferguson, Jane Hague, Reagan Dunn and Pete Von Reichbauer to commit to the increased bus service that would be required to make the surface option work. What about the 40-40-20 split?

The Mayor: Is saying 'there is no fucking way you are building a highway through my city' (so find a way to bury it or pony up the cash to make surface transit work).

Same stalemate is in play, something has got to give.

Luckily Kelly Evans, the person who ran the No Aerial Viaduct Rebuild Campaign also happens to be running the Governors Campaign so maybe there is hope.

My guess is we will know a lot more after the Gov wins reelection and has more political clout (in order to hope that she can have some semblance of guts).

Nah, Ron's quitting this year, so RBtL you're off on that one. And Kelly lost the battle - and the war.

Time for Rainier to set off after a factor 8 earthquake and cover Kent in hot mud ...

Will, I spoke with his staffer yesterday who said he is running again. Personally I don't think he should.