Comments on Barely Alive with Pleasure

I agree with you except for one thing: I DO want smokers of clove to die horrible painful deaths.

Aw, shucks, thanks for your concern about me dying a horrible death, but I figure the booze will kill me long before the ciggies do.

Not to mention the associated costs of combating black market cigarette sales. Cigarettes are already very expensive here - I don't think you'd have much room to work with if you proposed yet another tax hike. Hell, I already know people who are buying "black market" 555's imported from Vietnam for $15 per carton.

I remember an old political cartoon saying something about the FDA regulating tobacco. It said something along the lines of not regulating cigarettes, because if the FDA did step in, they would have to label it a poison, unfit for human consumption.

I smoked for 6 years and figured out how terrible they are for myself. If people can't figure it out, their dilapidating physical health and death is the imminent comeuppance for your own actions. Every drag literally makes you sicker! I have no sympathy. Also, support for big tobacco? You might as well just vote Republican. Blech

Aw, why does Fnarf have to hate on cloves? I think I've smoked 5-10 clove cigarettes in my life, but I enjoyed it. I wouldn't want to see cloves banned.

I'm okay with being taxed to smoke myself to death as long as we're taxing fatties to eat themselves to death. Where is the tax hike on McDonald's?

I think menthol is even worse then other flavors because it numbs the strain on your throat that would normally make you want to put off a cigarette for a while. Wasn't that the whole point of them?

Ban cloves? What will self-conscious, arty, intellectual high school kids smoke? Won't somebody please think of the children???

Hating clove smokers and/or the fragrance of cloves is an elitist thing - same as those who want their Bounce scent-free. You'd have a tough time living in Bali, he said clovelessly.

El Seven @ 7 got it right.

Menthol was introduced to make smoking less harsh. Lessening the 'learning curve' hooks smokers faster. Other flavors can be viewed in kind of the same light- younger people will be more likely to try a grape cigarillo than unflavored. The marketing angle is clear: Make it easier to smoke and let nicotine do the rest.

Dominic you say it's a dumb idea but you don't elaborate at all. I'm interested in reading more.

It's a class thing. They'll never ban brandy or cigars. Except Cubans, but then that's a class thing too.

This just totally reminded me of that Chappelle Show skit and I just watched it and it's still totally hilarious. I know black people.

Hating on smokers is so last decade.

Now I'm worked up.

Why the fuck does everyone hate on the cigarettes? I don't get it. The only arguments I ever seem to get are as follows: a) they're gross; b) they make your skin yellow; c) they kill you and everyone within ten feet of you; d) they make you smell bad; c) they aren't attractive; d) they are too expensive.

Don't get me wrong, I think all of these predicates apply when a person is, in fact, an addicted smoker. It just seems a little, i don't know, *credulous*, that there is no other accepted category except the non-smoker and the gross, disgusting, fire-breathing, wrinkled, yellow-teethed, and occasional young Kierkegaard-reading art kid. Does this seem odd to anyone else?

If I am completely full of shit (and undoubtedly self-serving), I'm interested to hear why.

The current price seems to be pretty good. Costs me about 7.50 for a pack of lucky strikes, and that's a couple weeks of cigarettes right there.

Honestly, I gotta echo 6. How is it that we let fast food get away with out any real taxing?

I love the "But I don't wanna pay for your healthcare!" bullshit argument that always seems to pop up... guess what? That only applies if we have a universal healthcare system.

I pay higher premiums on health insurance because I smoke. period. All the lawmakers and anti-smoking advocates need to come to terms with what cigarette taxes really are- an easy, abundant revenue source to balance the budget.

Come the fuck on. Smoking kills. Everybody fucking knows it. Cigarettes are never going to go away, and it's ridiculous to think it's acceptable to raise the tax.

So if you don't smoke, congratulations. Now leave it at that and shut the fuck up.

Big tobacco? Ha! I smoke Lookout. I found a great deal where I can smoke liberally (although I'm lucky to get through half a pack a day) for the low, low price of $1 a day. Plus, rolling your own (with filters!) is a talent that amazes people for some reason.

cigarettes are the Man's way of getting rid of the brothers. my brothers, it is a revolutionary act to not smoke. that goes for the sisters, too.

@17,

Too bad Medicaid and Medicare exist, otherwise you might have a cogent argument.

Jason, I rolled Drum for close to twenty years, but I gave it up. I can roll a masterpiece anytime, though it takes me more than three seconds now. But you're not allowed to brag until you can do it one-handed. My skill used to get me in on weed when I had none of my own, many years ago.

But Scary is right: stopping smoking is the revolutionary act, not switching to a cooler brand. They're all made by those evil nasty corporations, you know.

@17 we also pay for all the healthcare that uninsured smokers need.

I don't mind smoking as long as I don't have to breathe it. It's entertaining through a window. I also think taxing them for the wrong reasons is bullshit!

@15: To your list I would add:

g) The smell gets into everything and is nearly impossible to remove from buildings and cars.

h) Cigarette smoke in the air or caked onto the walls sets off some people's allergies or asthma and makes them miserable.

i) Smoking cigarettes regularly destroys a person's sense of smell.

j) Nicotine is highly addictive.

While i and j apply pretty much only to regular smokers, g and h apply to everyone around them. And the reason people hate on cigarettes so much is that the effect on a nearby nonsmoker is the same whether the smoker goes through a pack a day or two cigarettes a year.

@21: If medicare and medicaid are going to be trotted as legitimate arguments for why the government should get to control how people treat their own bodies, I'd prefer to get rid of medicare and medicaid.

More generally, if any collectivist program is going to count as a legitimate argument for eliminating basic freedoms, I'd prefer to eliminate the collectivist program. I'm not inconsistant: this applies equally to left-wing and right-wing collectivist programs.

@21 Then why haven't we seen legislation that earmarks all revenue cigarette taxes generate to fund Medicaid and Medicare for smoking related illness?

I'm merely pointing out how disingenuous it is to use healthcare costs as an argument to tax cigarettes and then not use the revenue to address the problem. Otherwise you're just as bad as the cigarette companies at preying on the addicted.

Yeah I don't way to pay for any gay's health care either. AIDS? They brought it on themselves. Alcoholics? Fukkem, they made that choice. Little kids with facial deformities? Paying for their parents sins! AND SO ON....

actually it makes more sense to tax inelastic goods to the hilt than it does elastic goods. cigs are inelastic and it results in less deadweight loss. smokers still smoke, cig companies still sell, and the government makes money.

preying on the addicted who know they are addicted isn't wrong if the addicted have avenues to stop their addiction.

and part of the problem is that a lot of you think there needs to be reasons to tax people beyond the government needing revenue. taxes as a form of behavior modification is a secondary benefit of taxes.

For once you speak sense, Bel (may I call you Bel?)

One drawback is it drives people within reach of Indian reservations to commit federal crimes to avoid tax. But then, that's just payback for what the Indians gave up.

@29

No, the problem is a lot of us think that the government hasn't any business approving or disapproving of my behavior, so long as I regulate it within the bounds of civil society. I'm not stupid. I know smoking is bad for me, I know i should exercise, I know that if I have pre-marital sex, I might get HPV. I've got it from here, thank you very much.

Oops, I might have read that post wrong. Sorry. What do I tell myself, oh yeah, "Thanks for playing Slog."

durr...

When they came for the smokers, I did not speak out; I was not a smoker.

When they came for the fatties, I did not speak out; I didn't eat fast food.

But then, they came for my booze; And there was no one left to speak.

fnarf, i make sense a lot of the times on economic issues. social issues on the other hand...well im apparently a know nothing asshole.

el, the point im making is it makes sense to tax cigarettes even BEYOND the secondary effect of influencing behavior. taxing cigarettes for the very fact they are an inelastic good makes sense. it doesnt matter if there is a moral implication and it isn't even necessary. If milk or beef were inelastic goods they should be taxed heavily too.

and you may call me bel.

And when the last smokers die out, what happens to all those programs, like SCHIP, being funded by bleeding their addicted souls dry? Tobacco is getting more expensive than weed. Another brilliant American idea!