Died: November 24, 1971
Incident: Given that DB Cooper showed his lack of skydiving experience by choosing a dummy parachute from those he had been given, it is unlikely he survived his attempt to parachute from a hijacked airliner. Dan Savage has shown no remorse for the death of DB Cooper.
"...and that's why Hillary deserves the nomination."
When Hillary bowls, she says she scores 325 everytime.
Erica, repeat after me, "I am a poor sport."
Only way I can break 100 is with the bumpers up. Does that make me black?
This is why I pray for a nuclear strike to take out Matthews, Scarborough, and all the rest of them every time I see them.
it's true. it is lame that a male candidate has to seem "manly" to win the respect of a large voting bloc of america. the same thing happened to kerry vs. bush. bush looked good throwing a pitch, playing football, or working the range. kerry -- not so much so.
but the view of "manly" man doesn't attach from one photo op or video... there has to be a pattern established.
#2/#4: Oh come on, get over it. ECB's post is pro-Obama, anti-homophobia, and anti-sexism and you're still on her case.
Is ECB turning the corner; becoming pro-Obama?
Poppy- It that what her post is about? I don't really get it.
I just get that Erica seems angry about something.
Maybe I am just too much of a faggity retard.
@2,3, and 4: I don't know what's wrong with you three, but Erica's got a point. These commentators are reinforcing the terrible, terrible idea that a president has to be a "real man" ... and it seems like they always claim the Republican candidate is the "manliest" of the two. Well, it's crap, and it's not doing any favors to the Democrats, Obama, or America.
So playing basketball isn't "manly"? I'd love to see these pale tubs of lard on the court, and see how "manly" they look.
Also, I didn't realize bowling scores were tiered on a "manliness" scale. Christ, everything is politicized with these gasbags. Why do Mathews or Scarborough still have jobs?
No, it makes you a girl
@8 - I see this post as more of an attempt to legitimize the sexism victimization of the Clinton campaign by applying it to another candidate. "See, sexism really hurts my candidate because it hurts other candidates too.
Yeah, but Obama could drive the lane over Scarborough any day. And I bet Chris Matthews couldn't throw a spiral. Fuckin pussies.
You are right, ECB. Women have fought for less-rigid gender roles (still a long way to go, but even the hardest cynic has to admit that there has been marked progress over the decades).
Men need to do the same thing, or any guy or boy who isn't a burly man or interested in burly man things will always be labelled effeminate--which shouldn't be seen as a negative either. But still, you know. Right?
I for one am looking forward to Obama's nationwide address on the issue of bowling.
Who the hell looks manly bowling? Seriously. All good bowlers are bald and fat.
Also, I'd like to see Matthews bowl. He probably bowls like a girl.
Matthews and Scarborough like to play hide the pickle...not that there anything wrong with that.
I dont see them running mccains crippled old man sports statistics. This is jy=ust to perpetuate the sterotype (fact?) that democrats are more effeminate then republicans...like anyone who actualy cared would vote for the "girly party" anyway
See, I would've Stranger-bolded it like this:
and this gets very ethnic, but the fact that he’s good at basketball doesn’t surprise anybody
You look at a quote like this, and leap first to the sexism?
I remember serving with Hillary in the 17th Combat Bowling Brigade. If it hadn't been for Fnarf throwing that pin at the snipers, none of us would be here today.
To a large segment of the population, "fat and bald" is the very essence of manliness. Drive the lane? Who cares? Can he shotgun a beer?
This could be a problem for Obama in the general. McCain is bald(ing) and fat, so it follows that he must be a championship-caliber bowler.
I've long believed that most of the sexist bullshit perpetrated against women by men has its roots in the sexist bullshit perpetrated against men by men.
Sexism against women is the symptom of a larger problem: our (still largely male-dominated) society has an extremely unhealthy idea of what it means to be a man. Men won't stop oppressing women until they stop oppressing themselves.
In no way is bowling manly. Those guys must be out-of-touch with reality. It is certainly lower-middle class, but not manly. The upper-middle class equivalent is golfing. It's a sport, but a man it does not make.
Manly is hunting, fishing, shooting*, riding bulls, woodworking, auto repair, etc.
*shooting dogs with arrows is not manly. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nicolebrodeur/2004318857_brodeur01m.html
Does anyone else find it kind of odd/disturbing that Matthews euphemised racial stereotyping as "getting ethnic?"
Bowler or no, Obama is still the Presidential candidate I'd most like to sip a glass of white wine with.
@24, the concept of the manly man is reinforced by men and women.
**Unless they are pit bulls. Then you are a wise, brave humanitarian.
@14. I think it's pretty clear that the post was about how it's unfortunate that sexism can play a role, even if a candidate is male.
I do not get why everyone tries to make every single ECB post about her supporting Clinton. These guys are clearly morons having a moronic conversation about how Obama isn't manly enough, and I think it's ridiculous to assume that the post is about anything other than that.
Though, I agree with tsm that the basketball comment is bullshit too.
since when is bowling a manly sport? is it even a sport? i always thought it was just an excuse to drink beer while wearing a funny shirt and shoes. and when you think about it, that's pretty fuckin gay.
morgan, who says women arent part of the problem? I've been to both to a mix gender public school and a single gender charter school.....I had two experiances...one was general acceptance of even the obviously gay, there may have been the occasional thinly vield effemanate joke but it was all good natured and we would crack on the macho dudes for being overly macho...it was surpriseingly tolerant and good natured....Then i went toa mix gender school...with all the mean sprited slurs,physical violence, hyper-territorial cliques and mostly misery save for boobage and the occasional hand job
women egg it on..weather they want to admit it or not
@28 - That's definitely true, but it's generally enforced much more brutally by men, who have more of a personal emotional stake in the status quo. That's been my experience, anyway. I got constant shit from my male peers simply for having a girly name (I'm male). Girls generally didn't care.
But I wince every time I see a mother tell her son to be a man and not cry or whatever.
@12 - You're talking about them aren't you? Hence, they've done their jobs.
@32. It could be that the women egged it on, or it could be that in the presence of women, the men felt the need to be more manly and so enforced the stereotype amongst themselves more brutally.
@32 I guess that's true. I was thinking more in terms of direct effect, but women sometimes do a lot indirectly to encourage it.
Well, especially on 4/1/08 ...
To a large segment of the population, "fat and bald" is the very essence of manliness.
I suppose the bald and fat segment *is* quite large. Baldness is out of one's control, of course, but getting fat is pretty much a sign that you're getting soft and lazy, ie not manly. Don't these people watch Battlestar Galactica?
@32 Yeah, I think that's definitely the case.
@34 Yeah, I think that's definitely the case.
Is there an echo in here?
I don't think this is about sexism as much as it's about the sorry, pathetic state of journalism in this country--particular when it comes to television journalism. The fact that anyone listens to these clowns when they huddle together and jabber to each other about complete bullshit saddens me.
Thank God for the internet...if only we could get those poor dumb saps in Park Slope, Appalacian Pennsylvania and Kentucky to use it once in a while.
Just the beginning. As he gets closer to the front, emasculation is going to be the tactic of choice because he is thin, and speaks extremely well.
The media is filled with chubby, insecure men, and that will be the bar for masculine for the time being.
@42 It's sad when the quality of commentary in a medium is unfavorably compared to that on the Internet.
I guess your right julie, although I had more then my share of shit flung at me I insulted and pushed around those few lower on the totem pole then I , the flamers, the physicaly deformned and the mentaly retarded...and what did it get me besides a cold empty feeling inside? hand jobs
I learned in highschoolt that the meaner,nastyer and agreesever you are and the more people you abuse the more sex you get
I'm 44 and have bowled about 50 games in my life. Only twice have I ever broke 100. But Barak should have rolled a few games in private before bowling in front of the press.
Reagan drinking beer out of a mug? Mugs are for pussies. Real men drink out of bottles and cans.
Oh please, linus, it's obvious that you never get laid.
not in highschool at least
It always amazes me that Matthews and Scarborough actually get paid for their scintillating insights.
So, in other words, everything you wrote in comment #45 was a complete fabrication. Color me shocked.
@24 - you nailed it.
Is this really sexism, or is it homophobia? It strikes me that being a "girl" (effeminate), is only the worst thing if you are a man. Isn't calling a woman "mannish" also a bad thing? But it's not that being a "man" is an insult-- unless you're a woman. I think this is really a coded homophobic insult. They're playing on the stereotypes of a girlish man or a mannish woman as being gay. So they're not actually calling him a "girl" or implying that being a woman is a bad thing, they're basically calling him faggy. Not that that makes it any better, obviously.
i meant "yeah,in highschool at least" but was distracted while typeing
A. anyone who's NOT a bowler normally is going to do great in front of hundreds of people watching.
B. a score of 200 doesn't make you a decent bowler, it' makes you a fucking kick ass bowler. In order to get 200 you basically have to get a strike or a spare every frame. I challange Matthews or Scarborough to see what they get. I bet they don't break 100.
C. I'd also like to see Matthews or Scarborough go one on one with Obama on the court and see who the man is.
Fucktards! Sure, no woman, no black man... let's elect the guy who couldn't even escape from a war prison. What a pussy.
it is sexist to say a man or woman has to act a certain way, and to hold it against them if they do not.
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