It's probably because liberals have rich and interesting lives, with interests beyond politics. We're normal, while they are obsessed to the point of trying to stop people's private bedroom activities.
In his former life, Tim Eyman sold watches online. You don't have to be a "tech billionaire" to be very effective at the initiative game.
I think "progressives" tend to be lazy about taking direct action at the sidewalk level because they think they are inherently right. They're waiting for the rest of us to catch up to their enlightened positions.
In contrast, conservatives just focus on winning.
Plus, we don't have sticks up our butts and don't spend our time imagining non-existent threats from nations that aren't going to send nuclear missiles many thousands of miles away when they can't even get an inaccurate chemical weapons warhead we sold them the materials for one-tenth that distance ...
and as a result the conservatives are calling the shots.
But liberals ENJOY being whiney.
Actually, Josh enjoys whining. And calling liberals and progressives names. What that makes him, we don't know. Oh, yes, an alternative newspapers columnist. Which means he enjoys whining. Because we enjoy it.
Yeah, what's up with that, Josh?
Elected officials - not voters - should decide transportation issues. Vote no on all transportation initiatives AND propositions from governments (like from RTID and from SMP). Those are the work of lawyers representing themselves, not electeds representing people.
If ST2.1 is on the ballot vote no, and if Stanton's initiative is alongside it vote no as well. NONE of those things works out well. Same goes for any Eyman initiative, at any time.
I assume this means that you plan to become a progressive activist when he steps down from the Stranger in a month, right?
In the meantime, there are tons of real lefties in this state whose work is underfunded, underappreciated, and beneath the radar of mainstream media. You could write about them for a change, instead of always just covering what people in government say and do.
RE: ECB bs story on Transportation governance.
From TNT - "Like Ladenburg, the TNT ed board and most Pierce County elected
officials are wary of regional governance, fearing that the needs of
the metro Seattle area will dominate, to the detriment of Pierce
Here ECB writes that Snohomish and Pierce will dominate -
"For another, Seattle and King County, which generally support transit, would probably lose representation to Pierce and Snohomish Counties, which are less receptive to transit taxes."
The representation will be the same for King County as now because it's the law. One person one vote.
The rest of the state won't vote on the plans for Puget Sound only whether or not RTAs will be partially directly elected and whether or not they will also plan and build roads and have some land use control (you know like upzoning around transit stations)
And could ECB provide the staff the current ST board has, doubt it. The staff of ST is no different than what the staff of the monorail was -
Why are pro ST people so afraid of letting the people vote? Why would ideology make Stanton not support transit?
ST is lowering expectations because they fear a second loss and are looking for some devil to blame.
oops. sorry for typo. meant "when YOU step down", not "he steps..."
Because half of the Democrats in the state legislature are actually Republicans. They run on a Democratic ticket so they can get elected, but are only interested in giving reach-arounds to contractors and Corporations ala Greg Nichols (R).
Why aren't liberals more active? Maybe because liberals engage in the narcissism of small differences, endlessly splitting off from each other in the uncompromising search for their own particular utopia. This is due in part to the democratic ideology of progressives, which ostensibly values diversity and tolerance, yet as a result finds it difficult to bridge gaps. We respect differences rather then trying to work out a compromise in order to form an alliance. Unfortunately conservatives do not value diversity and tolerance except to "rally round the flag" and enforce conformity when attacking the "other" (progressives). Thus conservative activists are often more effective precisely because they are intolerant and deeply distrustful of change. They really can't stand things that don't fit their "in the good old days" world view and will work with others instrumentally to achieve reduction of their anxiety. There are many other reasons for the lack of activism on the left, but I don't have time to write about it. I have to pay some bills.
It's a good point. I was involved in running one of the few progressive initiatives over the last ten years - I-937, the successful 2006 clean energy initiative that set renewable energy and conservation standards for state utilities.
We tried for five years to pass the measure in the legislature for 5 years but were always blocked by rural legislators (both Ds and Rs) doing the bidding of backwards-thinking rural utilities. So, we took it to the people and won. But, it wasn't easy.
Most of the progressive donors you mentioned were happy to help fund the effort, but too many liberal activists didn't want to dirty their hands with an initiative process that in their view didn't play by the rules and was too blunt an instrument compared to that o' so finely refined legislative process. And lots of snooty liberals didn't want to sign the petitions for the same reason. I also think that a lot of us are afraid of power and would rather wallow in victimhood before those nasty, talk radio listenin' plebes who call themselves conservatives.
But, I think the political landscape is changing enough that it's time for some of the gutsier progressives in Labor (SEIU, UFCW), the enviro community and folks like the trial lawyers to come together and come up with a multi-year initiative strategy that increases the power of the progressive community as a whole.
Josh, We'll miss your willingness to call us out for the wimps we can sometimes be.
This is what I hate about so many of the people here; they support passive criticism and don't take any steps to grab the reigns of politics, money, and what makes the world go round.
I want more fucking people like Soros and less people like Elenchos.
LMSW: You almost nailed it! (let me help you out a little:
“Why aren't liberals more active? Maybe because liberals engage in the narcissism of small differences, endlessly splitting off from each other in the uncompromising search for their own particular utopia. This is due in part to the ideology of liberals, which ostensibly values diversity and tolerance (even of negative, unhelpful or wrong view points), and as one would expect makes it difficult to bridge gaps. Liberals respect differences rather then trying to work out a compromise in order to form an alliance. On the other hand, while conservatives do not worship at the alter of diversity but tolerate it to the extent necessary to "rally round the flag" and form a coalition when defending against the "other" (liberals). Thus conservative activists are often more effective precisely because they are more tolerant of minor ideological differences than they are deeply distrustful of unintended consequences. They really can't stand things that don't fit their "free market" ideology and will work with others instrumentally to achieve reduction of their anxiety. There are many other reasons for the lack of activism on the left, but I don't have time to write about it. I have to pay some bills.”
There, that’s better.
Liberals are all talk and no action. Like me. We're lazy, selfish--we bitch and complain about how everything is going to shit while making pathetic attempts to excuse us from the equation--and we'd lose in a civil war. Like, immediately. 2 days tops. Over. Game over.
Everyone else "defending" liberals from Josh's critiques: you are making excuses and proving the point.
Why isn't there a statewide initiative to move forward on transit, for example?
Why didn't ST push for its own governance reform, take the bull by the horns?
Instead of being passive and only reacting??
Why isn't there a statewide initiative to say "fuck the BIAW we want new-home warranties"?
Why isn't there a statewide initiative to get that poor person's credit they wanted to get passed in Olympia?
Why are the Democrats afraid to cut off funding for the war?
Because "a lot of ["liberals" or "progressives"] are afraid of power and would rather wallow in victimhood."
and I love how people will say that conservatives have sticks up their ass and have less fun, but still get pushed around by the conservatives who enjoy above all else, pushing people around.
Discuss things endlessly, and never act. It's the Seattle way, the Puget Sound way, and the Washington way. Of all the regions of the country I've lived in, this is the worst.
Or, alternately, it could be because nobody is actually in favor of Sound Transit, bridge tolls or any of the other retarded, punitive options being discussed here.
Progressives demonstrate their political purity by shooting down other Progressives.
Conservatives never do that.
Case in point: When Tim Eyman was caught in a Big Lie his supporters stood by him. He made a public apology. They let some time pass for the mea culpa to work,and back Eyman roared, none the worse for it. Conservatives do not tear each other to shreds to advance their own careers. Progressives do nothing but that! This is an effective career strategy for the bull shit non-profit industry - which multiplies like fungi in this City - but it's a disaster for political efficacy.
Stop killing each other for awhile... see if you can build up a Progressive talent pool from which a few candidates might emerge.
"Elected officials - not voters - should decide transportation issues. Vote no on all transportation initiatives AND propositions from governments (like from RTID and from SMP)."
Oooo. Smart thinkin', McPhee. The only elected officials who can raise taxes for mass transit is the legislature. And their idea of urban transit is MORE FREEWAYS.
You sure is sMarT.
Stanton is driven by his own ego, period. Rich self-centered Republicans know there is little popular support for their ideas. That's where buying elections comes in. (ditto Kemper Freeman and Mark Baerwaldt) Stanton couldn't identify good government or effective transportation solutions if they hit him square between the eyes.
"Or, alternately, it could be because nobody is actually in favor of Sound Transit, bridge tolls or any of the other retarded, punitive options being discussed here."
More drivel from the grudge-driven. Um: all recent polls show strong support for tolling bridges, when they know the tolls will go to paying for a new facility.
Similarly, Sound Transit's polling consistently shows 60-65% approval for the agency, and 70-75% support for light rail.
Um's echo chamber may feel otherwise, but one can imagine he's got a pretty tiny circle of friends.
Because when you spend, oh, say, a decade or so pushing a progressive idea a third of the mass of people who should be your allies (the ones who don't have lives, or social skills) spend all their time picking it to death, and serve it up for the fakey-progressive office holders in ahem, your part of the country to destroy it, in their own hidebound interest.
Said from personal experience.
Damn Republicans!!! Run Kemper Freeman out of town on a rail covered in tar and feathers.
@25, any links to said polling data?
You're right, I'm probably just not a genius with a gigantic circle of friends like you, I'm just an Eastside commuter working in high tech who talks issues with neighbors and coworkers. I don't hear all this glowing support that you seem to know all about. That must be why there's so much political will for these fantastic ideas of yours and why Tim Eyman's initiatives continually fail to garner any votes whatsoever.
An eastside commuter who rides the 550 or my bus...the 545? My only complaint: Sound Transit's buses are over-loaded. (another basic argument for high capacity light rail)
Full buses. A sure sign nobody likes those ST guys.
FYI: yer buddy Tim Eyman's last initiative related to Sound Transit (776) lost BIG TIME within the Sound Transit taxing district. But it played well in the Tri Cities. You know, the people who don't pay for light rail.
The Elway poll about tolling is not available. I will do your research for you and pull up those ST survey results in a couple minutes.
For the record, Grant Cogswell is the perfect example of the self-destructive lefty: his myopic, single-issue pursuit of the monorail 'dream' had him teamed up (against light rail) with all kinds of unsavory pro-freeway creeps.
In truly progressive cities, pro-transit progressives would team up. In Seattle, we got monorail nuts who spent half their waking hours promoting monorail - and the other half fighting light rail. Vociferously.
If that's not "eating your own' I don't know what is....
Here you go, Um.
Go to March 13 survey results.
Page 9 of the presentation.
Think before posting next time, ok?
Or, just stick with yer idiot dittohead approach....
Um, if you're still confused, consider this: building reliable, expensive, long term, high capacity transit (trains) isn't about winning a popularity contest with your neighbors. It's about...errr...building expensive, reliable, long-term high capacity rail.
Still confused? If so, join the rest of the negative "progressive" whiners in Seattle who have done their best to kill off the good with the perfect on plenty of occassions. Grant Cogswell can tell ya all about it. Sadly, Josh Feit can, too.
At least Josh came around before he split town.
Maybe Josh Feit can leave town with one last mea culpa: an explanation/apology for his pathetic endorsement of Tim Eyman's I-776 in 2002.
Keep in mind, this was two years after Seattle learned it's Nader lesson.
Gosh Wally, you know so much!
If Sound Transit is being managed so well, why did the projected Phase I costs soar from $6.6 billion in early 2005 to $12.1 billion in late 2007? We know capital expense price inflation did not account for any of that, so don't try going down that path. TIA for your thoughtful response.
Oh, wait - let me guess: you don't respond to questions about ST's finances, right? Nobody who posts in support of Sound Transit responds to questions about its finances. That's standard operating procedure.
Wally, you seem to have me confused with a right winger -- I've never voted for an Eyman proposal nor do I ever tune in to Limbaugh. It's true that the majority of my blue collar Boeing employee neighbors seem to be GOP-leaning but I'd say that the majority of my coworkers are liberal-leaning or libertarian.
My wife is the only person I know who uses transit, and she was only able to start doing so recently because our kids have gotten old enough to mostly look after themselves after school. I sometimes have to drive up north along the 405 corridor during the afternoon to handle something for them, this is why I'm stuck in my fucking car every day even though I hate driving and commuting. I've tried to take buses in the past but it meant not being there to see the kids off to school in the morning because the only one that goes within miles of my office stops running at 8AM or so and doesn't run again until late in the afternoon. See, the schedules and routes are inconvenient to the point of being useless...
My wife and I think of ourselves as mostly well-meaning progressives but I'd be lying if I said I missed the ridiculous toll roads we grew up with on the East Coast. Oh, we paid the tolls back then to use the turnpike, even though it ended up costing me almost more to commute than I was making at the time. The thing is, the first chance we got to flee the area, we did. See, tolls and taxes are a hardship on working people and seeing your tolls and taxes wasted on boondoggles fuels taxpayer resentment or outright revolt sometimes (hence, Eyman, who I grant is a complete asshole but I still understand his populist appeal).
We moved to this area in 1991 and I can't help noticing that for all the talk in the intervening 17 years, no viable regional transit solution has emerged despite piles of money being burned on studies and proposals and whatever.
Your suspicious, Sound Transit funded survey does seem to show a support for the awful, bloated bureaucratic agency but the figures I've heard make it sound like ridership is a tiny percentage of commuters and is likely to stay that way.
I was trying to posit an answer above for why "progressives" or "liberals" like myself are not fighting for regressive things like tolling roads or raising gas prices or trying to make commuting as miserable as possible. My anecdotal everyday experience is that no one is all that fond of the money being wasted on Sound Transit, but I admit I could be wrong, maybe everyone loves the idea even though they have no intention of using it.
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