City Sound Transit ‘08 Looking Less Likely
posted by on April 4 at 15:46 PM
According to Seattle City Council president and Sound Transit board member Richard Conlin, who says Snohomish and Pierce County board members are still not satisfied with any version of the proposal, making it less likely that Sound Transit will put anything on the ballot in 2008. As I reported this week, agency staff are now looking at a larger range of sales taxes than originally proposed (between 0.4 and 0.5 percent, instead of 0.3 to 0.4 percent), to extend light rail further south and create a fund for light rail to Lynnwood in the third phase of construction.
But, Conlin says, that may not be enough. “Up until last few days, I thought it was quite likely. But enough questions have been raised [by board members from Pierce and Snohomish Counties] that I’m starting to have my doubts.” Some board members have said they won’t consider a tax increase higher than 0.4 percent, a priority that conflicts with other board members’ desire to get more projects in their counties. Even if some of those reluctant board members can be brought along, Conlin says a divided vote will look bad going into a tough campaign. “If we wind up going ahead without a really strong vote on the board,—if it’s, like, 12 to 6 on the board—I don’t think that’s a good position to be in going into a vote.”
i can understand WHY you didn't allow comments on the post about Dan's absence, to discourage asinine comments, but i feel bad that we can't offer condolences and comment what a great tribute he wrote to his mom. So I do, and he did.
back on topic...uh, sound transit has their head up their butt.
Thanks again, Sierra Club and SECB! Your faith in state Democrats was just as well-placed as one would've expected.
ughh. I give up. We will never have good rail in this city. Would it be possible to have more worthless leaders?
Wow -- you'd think this was a done deal, for the defeatism of these comments.
If you want ST on the ballot, tell the board members yourself instead of griping about activists on the internet.
Dan and his mother - that is the book I will read, and send copies for gifts.
So sad to her the news Dan. My Dad and I have always been close, but, in truth I think many gay men, like myself, we are very linked to our moms. Moms will talk and they seem to have the answers.
Take it easy Dan, dont' try to be just all so mellow, big time sad and grieving is OK, OK.
John
So, basically, when it's all said and done, Pierce County's electeds are acting like little whiny babies because voters consistently say they don't want to pay for an overpriced underutilized light rail segment and a highway to nowhere for them?
Maybe we should just change the boundaries then.
The best thing that could happen to this city is stripping the people of referendums and initiatives. Confused Washington voters shouldn't have these powers. Direct democracy is what's killing transit, government by the people. Seattle and the state of Washington are stuck in a cycle that goes something like this:
1. In a fit of idealism, the people push through a decent initiative, or in a fit of rationality, government officials create decent legislation.
2. Once the good people of Washington/Seattle have wasted millions on their idealistic projects, they suddenly get all bottom line oriented and cut funding, thereby wasting time and money.
Oh, and there's also no-compromise perspective of progressive voters, who use votes to shoot down projects that would benefit simply because, gasp, they're attached to other projects they don't like. What a lot of people call the art of compromise is re-branded "selling out" by the idealists and nothing gets done.
You know why we're never going to have decent transit? Because you pissed it away.
By the way, some of you may be interested in this recent ST poll (a scientific one -- not a web survey):
http://future.soundtransit.org/documents/TelephoneSurveyResults_031308.pdf
On the question at hand:
"The Sound Transit Board of Directors will soon decide whether or not to put a transit expansion measure on the ballot in November of this year. In general, do you strongly favor, somewhat favor, somewhat oppose or strongly oppose putting a transit expansion measure on the ballot in November of two thousand eight? Strongly Favor 47% Somewhat Favor 28%=> 75% Somewhat Oppose 9%=> 22% Strongly Oppose 13% (Need More Info/Undecided) 3%"
I think the survey they did on the web was a 'real' survey as well...I took it, and it wasn't some dinky, dorky one page thing.
Patrick @4:
If you want ST on the ballot, tell the board members yourself instead of griping about activists on the internet.
Fat lot of good it'll do us, except for those living in Pierce or Snohomish.
Michael,
Web surveys can be useful and yes, I took it too. But it's good to have that randomly-selected survey to compare against. when survey takers self-select you have a tendency to skew the results toward those people who are organized or otherwise have an interest in the issue. Web surveys might not break the cold hard facts. Which in this case are actually quite warm and fuzzy: 75% of respondants (including Pierce and Snohomish Counties) want LRT on the ballot in '08!
Moving on, here's a link to the contact page for our friends on the ST Board, who I'm sure are interested in getting some guidance from their constituents on this most pressing issue: http://www.soundtransit.org/x2249.xml
Will in Seattle @ 6 bleated out:
Will, you are such a fucking moron. You were so incredibly confident last year that there was NO QUESTION we should vote "No" on RTID. Now when your fantasy predictions fail to happen, rather than reexamine your absurd political opinions, you just badmouth the folks who don't drink your koolaid.
Thanks for killing transit, motherfucker.
MHD:
I'm sure a Pierce or Snohomish County voter will have more sway with those members, but for Seattlites, there's the opportunity to strengthen our delegation's spine.
And in any case, this is a regional issue. We are well within our rights to contact any and all members of the board. In this miraculous age of the info superhighway it's no skin off my nose to add one more email address to the "to" list.
Chin up.
No, thank the current Pierce County Exec who's running for State Treasurer. He's the one who's doing this.
And, last time I checked, we haven't even finished building the segments from the UW to Sea-Tac that are paid for - and they won't be finished until around 2016 as I recall, so in the eight years between now and then, maybe those of you in Pierce County could get your act together and stop blaming those of us who pass your ballot initiatives in Seattle.
I am STUNNED that Will's prediction didn't come true.
@ 14
Ladenburg's running for AG, not treasurer. And he isn't the only one who's doing this. Ron Sims and the Sierra Club campaigned against light rail's planned extension to Tacoma, saying that building light rail was a waste of money. This is just blowback.
*HEADS UP*
At the bottom of this page: http://www.soundtransit.org/x2249.xml is a link to email ALL of the board members at once. This is the easiest way to let them know what you think of this.
Take some action. I am.
Or just copy all the addresses from here: melia.brooks@seattle.gov; boardadministration@soundtransit.org; Julie.Anderson@ci.tacoma.wa.us; mburleigh@ci.kirkland.wa.us; fredb@ci.issaquah.wa.us; Richard.conlin@seattle.gov; dow.constantine@metrokc.gov; deannadawson@yahoo.com; daveenslow@msn.com; hammonp@wsdot.wa.gov; jladenb@co.pierce.wa.us; mayor@redmond.gov; Allison.Schwartz@Seattle.Gov; proberts@ci.everett.wa.us; michelle.chen@seattle.gov; julia.patterson@metrokc.gov; larry.phillips@metrokc.gov; aaron.reardon@co.snohomish.wa.us; ron.sims@metrokc.gov; cThomas@cityoflakewood.us; pete.vonreichbauer@metrokc.gov; proberts@ci.everett.wa.us
Patrick what did St's pre Prop 1 polls say?
Like he cares. He's bailing on Pierce, so he's positioning for a pro-car anti-transit statewide run ...
This is why real transit systems don't have indirectly elected officials on their transit boards ... when they go for higher office, they don't care about the peons who got them there.
@18
Polls that lack a specific expansion proposal and an estimated cost are so vague they are worthless.
You can get 75% in favor of anything if the question is like this:
"hey voters should officials put something on the ballot this fall to improve [fill in the blank] education / public safety / the environment / transportation / zoning / whatever."
I can't believe people still think ST2 point whatever would have anything to do with rail in Seattle. Or does everyone live in Redondo and Mountlake Terrace?
Because we in Seattle sometimes like to keep all those suburbanites off our roads, poppy.
Will in Seattle @ 19 says:
Nice theory, Will, excapt that every word of it is bullshit.
Ladenburg isn't "bailing on Pierce." In your blissful ignorance, you have failed to recognize one important fact.
County Executive and County Council in Pierce County are TERM LIMITED, to two terms. Ladenburg can't run for Executive again, because THE LAW says he can't.
Plus, if he didn't "care about the peons who got him there," why would he be pushing for the Cross-Base Highway and a rail link from Tacoma to Sea-Tac?
He is pushing for them because the voters in Pierce want them. What a concept! Imagine that! A County Executive sticking up for his constituents!
Please just quit pretending that you know JACK SHIT about Pierce County, and what the people there need. Or that they give a shit what YOUR priorities are, as if they weren't entitled to their own.
uh no RTID supporters, there is no reason why we should have to put up with a massive road expansion just to get a half measure of rail. All I'm asking for is a rail measure on the ballot in 08. Thats it. I don't feel like thats a lot to ask. If our elected officials are too incompetent to accomplish this one little thing then that means they are the problem, and they must be replaced before we can get anything done.
mmm @ 24:
There will be roads without rail before there will be rail without roads. If you want rail -- and *I* want rail -- the roads will come with it. Some people around here just can't deal with that.
#22: Why aren't you pushing for more Sounder commuter rail then? I think the term "light rail" confuses people because it's used as primarily urban transit almost everywhere else in the world.
"because voters consistently say they don't want to pay for an overpriced underutilized light rail segment and a highway to nowhere for them?"
Will Affleck-Asche never ceases to amaze us with his ignorance.
Self-centered Will only supports roads and transit which directly affect HIM.
The light rail extension between SeaTac and Tacoma (connecting several large population areas along the way) showed better ridership than his stupid monorail. At less than half the cost.
And that "highway to nowhere?" That's Cross-Base. If Will ever ventured outside his little 2 mile radius, he would know Cross Base would connect a huge (and growing) population center to Tacoma. Which is a lot less "nowhere" than Will's pathetic little life...
"There will be roads without rail before there will be rail without roads. If you want rail -- and *I* want rail -- the roads will come with it. Some people around here just can't deal with that."
Ivan, the legislature recently approved two gas tax increases to pay for roads. The legislature hasn't spent a dime on transit - buses or rail.
Polling consistently shows a stronger preference for transit. But since the Govornor, Senate Transpo Chair (Haugen) and House Transpo Chair (Clibborn) all approach transportation from a freeway-centric point of view, public votes will be required to build real rapid transit in the Puget Sound region. You know, the state's economic engine.
"Because we in Seattle sometimes like to keep all those suburbanites off our roads, poppy."
Will in Seattle would make an excellent self-centered frustrated white middle aged Republican. I would be happy to donate him to the GOP. They LOVE moronic idiots over there.
Wally that data about ridership and cost for the Tacoma - SeaTac segment is awesome. Do you have a link to a source for that data?
Wally I think you have mixed up some data. From a Times article the ridership is only 45,000 on that Tacoma link and the cost is $3.4 billion.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2003986898_elexprop1tacoma01m.html
From a little google work the monorail thing that Will of somewhere supported, although I didn't see him mention it, was about $2.1 billion and had a ridership forecast of about 60,000.
You know, and people tried to paint us as loonies for saying that ST wouldn't come back with basically the same rail measure, minus the roads, in 2008. Well, WE WERE RIGHT. So what now, smart guys? What other amazing prognostications have you got for us poor stupid peons?
Environment Washington, Fuse, and the Transportation Choices Coalition are collecting petition signatures online to tell the ST Board we want transit on the ballot this year. They've already collected an impressive number in just a few days. Seattle City Council is also sending Mayor Nickels (2008 Chair of the ST Board) a letter declaring their support for a transit ballot initiative this fall.
Note that Prop. 1 supporters have been proven correct on more and more points. 1) Even the most ambitious transit proposal we may see this year or in the next couple years falls well short of what Prop. 1 would've done for transit (17 miles of new light rail compared to 50). 2) More and more of the road projects in Prop. 1 are going forward anyway, so far the 520 bridge replacement and Mercer and Spokane Streets. What was really in the balance last fall was transit; not roads.
Will: "This is why real transit systems don't have indirectly elected officials on their transit boards ... when they go for higher office, they don't care about the peons who got them there." I think WMATA in DC disproves this. DC has the 2nd busiest transit system in the country, and the WMATA Board is made up of appointees who mostly hold elected office in local DC, MD, and VA governments.
In Summary:
1) Will in Seattle is the equivalent of a red bushie: Fanatical, willing to say or do anything to win, and unwilling to believe that things might exist outside of his narrow, closeminded worldview.
2) Ron Sims, the SECB, and the Sierra Club fucked us out of 50 miles of light rail because they wanted a perfect roadless plan. They are idiots because the roads are getting built anyway and we still don't have transit.
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