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1

One consideration is that as soon as Hillary quits, somebody will thank her for doing the right thing. Whereas, if she hangs on to the bitter end, nobody will thank her. Nobody will say anything good about her ever again. Which has a nice ring to it.

Posted by elenchos | April 25, 2008 3:51 PM
2

You're right again, Josh! Thanks for keeping at it.

Posted by hotthing | April 25, 2008 3:59 PM
3

what are you ever going to get it through your thick head that a majority of voters doesnt mean all the voters, nor does admitting republicans do well in certain demographic mean obama is flushing them.

You're a fucking hack and the stranger is better without if this is going to be the kind of shit you're putting up.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 25, 2008 4:02 PM
4

the candidates are united on ending the occupation of Iraq? you mean THE OCCUPATION THAT HILARY SUPPORTED in order to curry political favor? after such a blatant selling-out of progressive ideals for political expediency, i can never trust hilary's "ideology" again. unless that "ideology" is "i will do whatever i think will further my career," in which case, i trust hillary will hold firm to those beliefs.

Posted by jon c | April 25, 2008 4:02 PM
5

I don't think Obama has made an effort to appeal to the working class of any race.

Posted by crazycatguy | April 25, 2008 4:03 PM
6

Go to hell, Josh.

And take your comrade John McCain with you.

Posted by Will in Seattle | April 25, 2008 4:05 PM
7

Really? So now "...doesn't rely soley on those votes" means the same as "...willing to flush 'em"?

Posted by steve | April 25, 2008 4:06 PM
8

You mean 'proletariat,' not 'lumpenproletariat': the latter referred to the (non-working, non-productive) trash that Marxists--even Marx and Engels--have consistently, historically, disdained.

Unless you do in fact mean 'lumpenproletariat,' which would be telling...

Posted by m | April 25, 2008 4:07 PM
9

Two words: Bradley Effect.

Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty | April 25, 2008 4:12 PM
10

Hillary has dismissed voting bloc after voting bloc, saying or implying that small states, states with caucuses, black people, young people, etc., etc. don't count. One Obama strategist does the same and it's time to go crazy over it.


It's also a good question why working people love Hillary so much. Is it because she's a woman of the people or is it because they like her husband and want the '90s back?

Posted by keshmeshi | April 25, 2008 4:13 PM
11

Newsflash, Feit. Bill Clinton didn't get 'em either.

They went for Perot in large enough numbers to split the Republican vote and allow him to squeak in. He had incumbency and a stronger economy the second time around, but still managed to blow in the South.

Posted by NapoleonXIV | April 25, 2008 4:18 PM
12

Obama wins droves of Independents. Droves of them. Hillary Clinton doesn't. She drives them away. Penn was a closed primary. My guess? He would've won if it had been an open primary.

Check the state-by-state numbers. Hillary wins by slim margins and will NOT be a draw for downticket folks. Ask reps and state-level Dems who they want. Hint: they're mostly not for Clinton.

Posted by Michigan Matt (soon to be Balt-o-matt) | April 25, 2008 4:20 PM
13

No, Kesh, it isn't so much that she's "of the people," because she obviously isn't; it's more an issue of BO so obviously holding the people in distain.

Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty | April 25, 2008 4:21 PM
14

I wish everybody would just shut the fuck up about all this shit, because it's not getting anybody anywhere. Also, "historic appeal"? Really? When did she run for office (and I don't mean run for the chance to run for the office of President) anywhere but New York?

Posted by egid | April 25, 2008 4:22 PM
15

Those damn elitist African-American and union voters!

Posted by NapoleonXIV | April 25, 2008 4:23 PM
16

Of course, Obama himself is said to acknowledge that he needs to work harder to win this demographic. I can see how you missed that and all, seeing as it was a whopping full paragraph later in the exact same article.

Posted by tsm | April 25, 2008 4:24 PM
17

The Obama maniacs are so crazy with lust for his presidency that they can't even think straight anymore. Hillary is not the enemy. She's a solid Dem who appeals to a lot of people that Obama doesn't. Hillary & Obama both stand in pretty much the same place on the issues. They ENHANCE each other. When one gets the nomination, the other will endorse them & all their supporters will follow suit,... unless you keep dissing them by dissing Hillary!

Posted by hotthing | April 25, 2008 4:25 PM
18

Hillary has won some battles and lost the War.

Get over it.

Posted by NapoleonXIV | April 25, 2008 4:26 PM
19

I think Cindy McCain can start planning now which designer will make her inauguration gown.

Posted by raindrop | April 25, 2008 4:27 PM
20

Jesus H. Christ on a trailer hitch. If this goddam campaign goes on much longer, a plague on all your houses. I started the campaign season reasonably okay with either of them - neither was my first choice, but neither of them is the AntiChrist, either. AND NEITHER OF THEM ARE TODAY, EITHER. They're both middle-of-the-road moderate Democrats with strong points and weak points, with human flaws and pride and ambition, some dicey friends and relatives, and plenty of brains and common sense.

Godalmighty. It's the whole attitude of, "if my choice doesn't win, then you all have cooties and I'm taking my bat and ball and going home" that's making me tired and cynical about this whole goddamned thing.

Jesus. Campaigns need to be about three months. Any longer than that, and ALL the candidates start to smell like week-old diapers.

Posted by Geni | April 25, 2008 4:35 PM
21

He's creating a ground game, a real one. He has operations that are everywhere that are active, and his online operations dwarf any previously created.

What's he bringing to the party? New voters, the most important kind of all.

Posted by Gitai | April 25, 2008 4:36 PM
22

Enough use of the phrase "lumpen proletariat." Talk about condescending and elitist...

Posted by Joe M | April 25, 2008 4:38 PM
23

I'm not worried about the candidates, but I am worried about their supporters.

Clinton's supporters (non-campaign staff) are not directing vicious attacks against Obama, but Obama's are against Clinton. Obama's doing nothing to rein them in. What do they think will happen if/when Obama wins the primary and needs the support of mainstream Dems? Clinton is very popular amongst lifelong Democrats and Obama fans have spent the past few months calling her a Republican and acting like she's worse than McCain. A generational conflict doesn't lend itself towards party unity.

Posted by blank12357 | April 25, 2008 4:41 PM
24

Wow! Rush is correct. The Dems are not intelligent. Hillary supporters really believe that the GOP crossovers (aka Operation Chaos) will actually vote for her in November?! We are playing Hillary and her ilk for fools.

Posted by McCain/Crist '08! | April 25, 2008 4:44 PM
25

@17, as an African American, Hillary certainly no longer appeals to me and a lot of my family and friends.

@23, really? You need to open your eyes. Her campaign has been, and continues to be, dismissive of African Americans. Good luck with winning the election without our votes.

Posted by Fitz | April 25, 2008 4:49 PM
26

Oh, and when we (AAs) sit at home in Nov, it will be interesting to see how the down ballot candidates do. ha

Posted by Fitz | April 25, 2008 4:55 PM
27

@17:
"She's a solid Dem who appeals to a lot of people that Obama doesn't."

Yeah, namely:

a) racists
b) hawks
c) misguided feminists*

She's a train-wreck.


*Which is not meant to imply that feminists are generally misguided, so calm down. I mean feminists who are misguided and support anyone of their gender, no matter how reprehensible.

Posted by AMB | April 25, 2008 5:14 PM
28

@8/22: You took the words out of my mouth. The level of condescension towards the "common man" in regards to this campaign turns my stomach.

Posted by Dawgson | April 25, 2008 5:22 PM
29

Are you STILL here?

Posted by whatevernevermind | April 25, 2008 5:29 PM
30

one issue that does differentiate obama and hillary is their approach to indian country. this is an important democratic vote in many swing and red states. obama has senior advisors on his staff, hillary does not. this is going to be important since mccain has in the past been a very big supporter of indian country and at the forefront of indian health and education. many indians think that he wouldn't be a bad choice, especially given his veteran status which many natives respect. indian leaders in montana and south dakota are now in support of obama. the first clinton white house left indian country on the back burner and this campaign suggests that if sen clinton became president this wouldn't change. i feel that if she got the nomination mccain would get the support of indian country and that crucial swing vote in alot of western states (montana, south dakota, oklahoma, nebraska, new mexico, arizona, alaska...the list goes on)

Posted by Jiberish | April 25, 2008 5:31 PM
31

You know, just because Hils can't play poker and thinks we're playing chess, is no reason she can't wake up and stop running.

The poker game will go on without her or Bill.

Posted by Will in Seattle | April 25, 2008 5:47 PM
32
Clinton's supporters (non-campaign staff) are not directing vicious attacks against Obama, but Obama's are against Clinton

Ooooooh ... let me guess, you're a Clinton supporter, aren't you? "Waah! Those stupid, brainwashed Obamaton cult members called me names!"

Posted by moron. | April 25, 2008 5:48 PM
33

So, What is Obama Adding to the Party Again?

New voters. The Obama campaign has registered "more than 200,000 new Democrats in Pennsylvania, more than 165,000 in North Carolina, and more than 150,000 new Democrats in Indiana.

"Obama has won the overwhelming majority of new voters in primaries and caucuses so far."

Think for a moment, Josh. Remember the buses the Obama campaign here in the 43rd sent to register voters in Oregon, and Obama's speech in Indiana the other night, and answer your own silly rhetorical questions.

Posted by V | April 25, 2008 6:00 PM
34

maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake em say uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 25, 2008 6:26 PM
35

@23 - WTF are you talking about? Go to TaylorMarsh.com, Noquarter or Hillaryis44 and you'll find no shortage of Clinton fans all but calling Obama a child molesting, raping mass murderer. Don't even try to pretend that Clinton supporters have taken the high ground here.

Posted by youknowitstrue | April 25, 2008 6:30 PM
36

@34 Uh?

Posted by PopTart | April 25, 2008 6:46 PM
37

Why are you supporting Hillary again? I forget.


Posted by collie | April 25, 2008 7:10 PM
38

Too too funny

Sharon Jacobs, a 58-year-old retired foundry worker from Auburn, is supporting Clinton.

"To be honest, it's because I liked Bill Clinton as president. I figure two heads are better than one," she said.

But she said she's also worried that "if Obama gets in there, the blacks will kind of try to take over."

Posted by lol | April 25, 2008 9:59 PM
39

@24: Thank you.

Those genuine "salt of the earth" white working class voters may prefer HIllary over Obama in the Democratic primary, but what happens in the general? McCain will win them hands down. The Democrats have been watering down their agenda for decades trying to win over this voting block and look where it got them. Obama's unprecedented coalition of the creative class, youth voters, African Americans and independents is the only thing that will stop McCain.

Posted by blue22 | April 25, 2008 10:13 PM
40

39:

What the fuck is the "creative class?" High school wood shop or something?

Posted by ivan | April 25, 2008 10:55 PM
41

Who cares. Its over. Obama has the most and will have the most elected delegates. If Clinton manages to overturn the will of the voters though super delegates I for one will stay home. Fuck her and fuck any WAshington super who ignores the will of the voters of this state. I won't vote for any of them.

Posted by giffy | April 25, 2008 10:59 PM
42

Yeah who cares about that bitch Hillary who's gotten about 15 million votes. She's evil and hateful. Who needs her or her supporters. They're dumbass racists, too. They're not even in our creative class!
All those Archie Bunkers and older women and people making less than $50,000 a year -- they're probably the same racits who oppsed bussing and affirmative action back in the 1970s. Yeah those Slovakian steelworkers in Pittsburgh who didn't want their kids bussed across town -- how fucking racist!! And who thought people shouldn't get jobs based on race -- what a bunch of fucking racists!! Same crowd.
Now, they are not voting for the black guy and get this -- they sometimes say dismissive things about him. Ohmygod how racist!!!!! did you hear -- they even sometimes say their candidate is "better qualified" ohmygod that's just like bull connor and simon legree can you believe it!!!!!

and Remember these are the same racist dumbass folks -- you know, they are not in the creative class like us ?? -- who voted for Nixon Regan Bush Bush and for Dukakis
McGovern Kerry or Gore -- they are so dumb and racist! So fuck em. Who needs them?

We're the creative class and we're smarter and better than all those dumbass voters so our creative super intellectual response to Josh Feit is "fuck you" and "go to hell" and "take your buddy McCain with you."

See how creative and smart we are?

Unity, unity, unity, rah rah rah rah! Fuck you if you dont' vote for Obama, rah rah rah ! On to Victory in the Fall, rah rah rah ! All HRC supporters: go to hell and take John McCain with you!!! Unity unity change change rah rah rah !! Expel the vermin rah rah rah! Denounce the non-creative gun clingers, rah rah rah!! Exterminate all who are dismissive of the God Obama rah rah rah!! Keep our movement pure and clean, rah rah rah !! Unity unity unity rah rah rah!

Can't you see we're about change, being hopeful and positive ? Get it -- UNITY. And if you don't fall in line, why then FUCK YOU!!!!

Obama Obama, Above All the Rest!!
Obama Obama -- for the Creative Class!!!
Obama Obama -- uber alles!!!!

Ja wohl.

Posted by unPC | April 26, 2008 6:48 AM
43

@42 So you think its ok for Clinton to win the nomination by having the party elites override the will of the party voters? Because that's prety much what Clinton is seeking at this point.

Posted by giffy | April 26, 2008 7:07 AM
44

@42: So what you're saying (once again) is that America can't afford to elect a "pro African-American" president?

Are you still quietly sobbing into your white hoodie every night in fear that "the blacks are going to take over"?

Posted by ru shur | April 26, 2008 9:21 AM
45

i didn't start out despising hrc. she's earned it over the course of this campaign. earned it fair and square. and i am not an "obamatron"-- i realize the man has his weaknesses, too. but i don't despise him. and yes, any voter who supports hrc just because "she's a woman" makes me embarrassed for my sex. and if we get that blockhead mccain because of her, i will do everything in my power as a voter and citizen to keep her permanently out of any political office.

Posted by ellarosa | April 26, 2008 9:21 AM
46

i wish i was there the day josh discovered the work lumpenproletariat. i wish i was there the day he decided to split the word into two. i wish i was there the day he decided to use it to describe ALL of the lower class.

i imagine he was back east smoking a pipe in a smoking robe, eating grapes served by his family's lumpenproletariat butler.

Posted by cochise. | April 26, 2008 9:22 AM
47

Josh --

You've gotten a lot of spite in comments, so I doubt you're reading. But if you are, I really hope that you'll consider the idea of "preferences" when you write about Presidential candidates. When Clinton does better than Obama among the white working class (which is statistically is hard to untangle because the bulk of the PA voters meeting that definition are fixed income seniors/retirees, and not any out-moded stereotype of joe six pack), it's because they "prefer" Clinton to Obama. Another way of saying that is that Clinton is "relatively" more popular. That doesn't mean working class voters dislike Obama--it means they like Clinton more. And when you think about it, the average 65 year old white woman retiree is be much better positioned to respond to 61-year old Clinton than to 47-year old Obama (who stuck his foot in his mouth wrt guns/religion and a big assist from MSM). It's entirely consistent with the known facts that the white working class supports Obama some and Clinton a lot.

So your conclusions that they don't support Obama need more evidence. It's a "preference" thing.

Posted by generous with opinion | April 26, 2008 12:53 PM
48

Another willful misinterpretation of an Obama campaign quote. All he was saying is that there's more to this election than the socalled "white working class"-- he wasn't writing them off. By the way, how many unions need to endorse Obama before that supposedly singleminded group is treated with a bit more nuance?

Posted by Trevor | April 26, 2008 2:25 PM
49

If only we could find a way to stop certain people from voting the way us right thinkers know is wrong. I know, how about a nice dictatorship. You know, a benign, friendly thing that only allows approved thoughts.

Posted by Vince | April 26, 2008 4:13 PM
50

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/25/AR2008042503707_2.html

There are signs that the anger voiced by some African Americans is beginning to extend to the Democratic donor base. Campaign finance records released this week show that a growing number of Clinton's early supporters migrated to Obama in March, after he achieved 11 straight victories. Of those who had previously made maximum contributions to Clinton, 73 wrote their first checks to Obama in March. The reverse was not true: Of those who had made large contributions to Obama last year, none wrote checks to Clinton in March.

"I think she is destroying the Democratic Party," said New York lawyer Daniel Berger, who had backed Clinton with the maximum allowable donation of $2,300. "That there's no way for her to win this election except by destroying [Obama], I just don't like it. So in my own little way, I'm trying to send her a message."

The message came in the form of a $2,300 contribution to Obama.

Posted by Trevor | April 26, 2008 6:25 PM
51

Hillary, the consummate democrat:
she wrote in "Living History." "I sometimes think that I didn't leave the Republican Party as much as it left me."
Source: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/04/08/hillary_1968/print.html
--This election, the mothership is calling her home. Does anyone know which mothership would effectively call Josh Feit home?

Posted by Mark in Colorado | April 26, 2008 7:19 PM
52

Now the absurd calls for a 22 debate, complaining about not dropping the gas tax- ECB what do you think? Lower the cost of gas so we can keep using more? What next? Won't someone stop her?

Posted by mikeblanco | April 26, 2008 7:37 PM

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