Comments on Re: Morning News

0.25 > 0.2

"Say". Today. Prior to the convention. Prior to any debates.

Our biggest problem is that 20 - 25% of Americans are petulant, spiteful dumbass blowhards.

as if any more proof was needed that for a lot of people, elections are a popularity contest.

if my guy/gal dont win than ill show u!

as gore vidal once said, the best argument against democracy is a 5 minute conversation with an american voter.

I get absolutely infuriated when I see polls like this, at a time when we need a Democrat in the White House more than ever.

I blame overzealous supporters of one candidate who go out of their way to smear and discredit the other Democratic candidate, to the point where they might as well just join up with the McCain campaign because all they're doing in the end is fracturing the party before the general election. And this has happened with supporters for both candidates - I'm not just picking on you, Erica.

Do you believe those numbers are a true gauge of what people will do? I think they're laughable. Unless Obama has a stroke, there's no mathematical scenario where Clinton will emerge with the nomination. She will eventually get behind Obama with all due force, knowing that in a close loss to McCain she'd be tagged with a reputation as a Naderesque spoiler that would dog her straight to her obituary.

All the more reason for Hillary to cut her losses soon and start figuring out how to take Harry Reid's job, where she can happily set up shop for a couple of decades and get a lot done. The longer her supporters key themselves up, the longer it'll take for them to calm down.

People say that now, but if this gets resolved in the next few months, it'll settle down.

Even *more* proof that HRC should have dropped out long ago. She's destroying the party.

@5: i'm figuring McCain strokes out before November.

I am fairly certain the bitterness will wear off once the Dem candidate is paired up against McCain and all the Dems will rally around the chosen candidate. This is bitterness speaking right now. I was saying the same thing a few weeks ago but have since come to my senses and will most defintiely vote Dem, no matter who the candidate is. We simply can't have four more years of Republicans. They will be able to likely select three Supreme Court Justices during that four year period

I'm still voting for him.

Whatever. Any strong supporter of either candidate who threatens to vote for McCain over Obama or Clinton is either a bullshitter, a drama queen, or out of their fucking mind.

Even if Clinton is an evil kitten-drowning blood-bathing Satanist.

We'll see what happens when the tantrum-throwing ends.

I'm proud to be a part of that statistic. I will not be voting for McCain if my candidate does not win, but I will not be voting for the other Dem candidate. I'll end up voting for whatever 3rd party is in the race. It's not due to spite, or loyalty, or any other petty reason. My reasons for not being able to vote for McCain or the other Dem candidate are sound, and if everyone who felt that way stood up and made that choice we'd have a democracy that functions much better. The people who demand I vote for the lesser evil are the ones who are hurting this democracy - we won't get a true choice until we reject this thinking.

PS - Please don't presume to know which dem candidate I'm supporting and which one I am not.

I like to make a mental picture of the upcoming debates. I picture Hillary standing across from John debating. Then I picture Barack standing across from him. Just that image of that crotchety old forgetful moron white male power structure status quo candidate trying to look smart and powerful across from Barack gives me confidence about which candidate will swing the voters, and It ain't McCain, it ain't Hillary. Does anyone trust the polls? Its like the weather report. A coin flip at best. Maybe Hills can steal the nomination, then Johnny Crotchety can take the crown. Ugh.

Oh please. Right now people are just cheerleading for their own personal superstar. Come November, when it's about cabinet positions, Supreme Court judges, and veto power, democrats are NOT going to vote for the republican candidate. Anyone (almost anyone) saying that right now is just whining.

(Reposted, since no one reads those silly morning news threads anyway)

26% defection among Clinton supporters
19% defection among Obama supporters
2.1% margin of error

Is there really much difference?

I hope these people are either blowing hot air, or they don't know the first thing about who McCain really is. This could change once Democrats focus their money on exposing him. The crapfest known as the media has done everything in their power to look past his flaws and his ignorance on important issues, while citing his status as a 'maverick' and a 'straight talker' and pretending they weren't the ones to brand him as such in the first place.

You guys think the media is giving Hillary or Obama the coronation? Wrong. It's McCain.

A better question to ask is how many of those voters would vote at all if the choice was McCain vs. X

please.

you're not going to find someone who dislikes hillary more than i do, and i would be *thrilled* to vote for her. seriously. i read too much conservative punditry to let those douchebags have the satisfaction of winning. culture war '08 FTW!

@12 If you don't vote against the Republican you're bad people. Own it.

so then why all this focus on what the other opponent is mis-saying this week ( and every week for months now )? clinton and obama are mere opponents . but mc cain and bush are the fucking ENEMY. you would think the bringers of this latest information would be duly alarmed and begin the tasks of fighting against any remnant of the current administration that seeks to retain the status quo, which mc cain promises to do. but i get the feeling that this is so lost on erica, josh, annie , eli and all the vast rest of you harbingers of the latest minutiae of democratic gaffes and bickering, that all we can expect to hear from y'all for the rest of this ordeal is a collective 'tsk, tsk, we're fighting so much amongst ourselves we just might lose'.

@18 ...adding, Vote Democrat!, since neither Obama v McCain or Clinton v McCain is anything like Kang v Kodos.

Riz, I can believe maybe at most 5% of either candidate's voters would defect and vote for McCain. But 20 to 25 percent? I don't believe it, especially when we know when the pollster asks you that question that saying they would vote for McCain is somehow going to help their guy win the nomination.

I think they're bluffing, unless somebody can show me deeper research that proves they're not.

I have this weird fear that Hillary will run as a third party "centrist"a la Lieberman... it seems plausible.

And 50% of McCain supporters said they'd never vote for Bush in 2000. These polls are bullshit.

as w/ the prev, similar poll that ECB mentioned some wks ago...the only thing this proves is that hillary supporters are bigger cry-babies than obama supporters & whiners. but once the dem nominee (almost certainly obama) is finally decided, i predict that these whiny babies will come around & realize that they can't afford to not vote for the dem nominee

For the math that goes above some people's heads.

25% of Hillary supporters >? 20% of Obama supporters

Everyone's assuming the number of supporters is the same... are they?

Obama lacks one very important qualification: wisdom. That's not his fault. It's just that he's a political rookie. He would have never made that snippy "clinging to religion" if he truely understood the American people and politics.

#24, there isn't really much of a difference with the margin of error. Obama and Clinton supporters are pretty equally whiny.

#25, aside from the point above, primary supporters do not translate into general election voters. For proof of this just consider that aggregate primary votes for D candidates have vastly outnumbered aggregate primary votes for R candidates. If you assumed primary voters would all vote for their respective party's nominee, you would expect it to be a D landslide, but this is still going to be a close general election. Don't overlook primary-aloof partisan voters who are going to vote for their party's candidate either way (arguably more Rs in this boat) and independents who didn't vote in a primary.

Further, I think the overall consensus is that this poll is bullshit, along with any general election poll this early in the game (2004 anyone), and that "defectors" on either side will come around. I also like to think that these defectors don't have a clue what John McCain really stands for.

I'm not that crazy. On the odd chance that Clinton steals the nomination, I currently intend to vote for no one for president in November. I may liquor myself up first though so I can vote cl... vote cl... I can't write those two words together right now, sorry.

@26

It seems to me that there is more wisdom on the behalf of the senator who opposed the war in Iraq than the one who happily jumped on the bandwagon to fight this unjust and unnecessary war.

As I have been saying "the narcissism of small differences". When some people keep making extreme statements about the other dem. candidate, eventually it becomes very hard for some people to accept voting for that other candidate. They don't have enough ego strength to handle shades of grey. For these people everything has to be very simple- either my way or the highway.

Erica why are 95% of your post pro Clinton? It kind of invalidates your POV because you come across as... what's the word I'm looking for... a hack.

I was one of those "I would never vote for HilZ", but as much as I don't like her, I'll hold my nose. I've gotten over it, but I still think Barack is going to win the nomination.

News Flash: Clinton supporter LIE to pollsters.

World reaction: Duh.