Slog: News & Arts

RSS icon Comments on Re: Delusional

1

I don't know who's right, but you have to admit a man who can hit the braking zone at 200+ mph, drag a knee and exit the corner in front of a pack of the very best riders on Earth probably knows a thing or two about transpo.

Posted by elenchos | April 15, 2008 12:44 PM
2

He's not going with rejected choices, he's going with POPULAR choices that have been rejected by small minorities. He's taking local and regional choices to a larger statewide electorate. It might work. Seattle voted down the viaduct rebuild (sort of, partly because of the inane way it was put on the ballot), but taking the same question to the ENTIRE STATE is an interesting move. As long as everyone gets some candy, they'll do whatever you tell them to.

Posted by Fnarf | April 15, 2008 12:48 PM
3

it looks like he's attempting to distinguish himself from gregiore in a meaningful way. promising to deal with the traffic "problems" in a heavy-handed way, to actually accomplish something, might be appealing to many voters. especially, you know, the roads part.

Posted by infrequent | April 15, 2008 1:06 PM
4

And so, our "choices," —dictated by social engineering toward roads—have destroyed our environment.

Our environment is "destroyed?" Perhaps it's hysterical overstatements like this coming from transit-heads that make people less sympathetic to the cause.

Posted by JMR | April 15, 2008 1:06 PM
5

All the more important for the urban parts of King County to deliver a massive vote for Gregoire or we will have folks in Moses Lake dictating transportation policy here.

Posted by ratcityreprobate | April 15, 2008 1:09 PM
6

if using money to make good choices is what rossi wants, then he should be advocating a toll only funding solution.

lmao elenchos, if your joke was true it might actually help him in the election.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 15, 2008 1:09 PM
7

All cost estimates for public works projects of that size have very little to do with how much it actually costs in the end. 200 or 300% cost overruns are common, but the conventional wisdom is that there's no way that people are going to sign off on a $10B bridge replacement.

So, the math does "work" like that because it's not really "math" in the normal sense.

Posted by Tiktok | April 15, 2008 1:14 PM
8

Maybe I should run for Governor and propose a 12 lane 520 bridge for only $1.5 billion.

Also to deal with all those pesky snow closures of the passes, and all the rain being used up by Seattle instead of the hard working farmers behind the rain shadow, I plan to bull doze the Cascade Mountain range at a cost of $2.5 billion.

Posted by Poll Watcher | April 15, 2008 1:16 PM
9

I have a problem with the way the Stranger staffers continue to interpret the Prop 1 results.

How was the yes/no Prop 1 vote a mandate for public transit only? As you have repeatedly said, the package included both roads and transit. What data do you have that shows everyone who voted no would have voted yes if only public transit (and not road expansion) was included? Aren't the pro-roads folks using the exact same results to claim people want roads, and only voted no because of the huge waste of money that was the public transit portion?

Posted by what did I miss? | April 15, 2008 1:22 PM
10

I don't know who's right, but you have to admit a man who can hit the braking zone at 200+ mph, drag a knee and exit the corner in front of a pack of the very best riders on Earth probably knows a thing or two about transpo.

I don't know what this refers to, but hopefully whatever it is, it doesn't do anything to revive that NASCAR track idea that came up last year.

Posted by JMR | April 15, 2008 1:25 PM
11

choices = driving in your single-passenger vehicle

Posted by David | April 15, 2008 1:28 PM
12

Speaking of delusional, how about McCain's federal gas tax holiday? That's a great way to reduce the price of oil - make gas cheaper. McCain and Rossi are both part of the "Back to the Future" (ignore reality) Republican game show that's been playing since Reagan.

Posted by d-lusion | April 15, 2008 1:30 PM
13

@4: Our environment is nearly destroyed. Have you been paying attention?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/04/14/ntm.garbage.island.cnn

Posted by David | April 15, 2008 1:34 PM
14

If you're going to call the transpo initiatives that LOST "popular" because they had an almost-majority, then I suppose Rossi's convoluted "logic" sort of makes sense.

But the truth of the matter is they were REJECTED, regardless of the slimness of the vote; that makes them UNPOPULAR to the MAJORITY of voters who had a say in the matter. Trying to spin it any other way is just ludicrous on its face.

But then, this is the typical GOP/conservative response to anything that goes against them; keep rehashing the issue over-and-over no matter how long it takes, until they finally get the result THEY want, and THEN call "no do-overs".

I for one don't WANT a bunch of people in Spokane deciding what transportation solutions are most appropriate for Seattle, any more than I suspect they would like us to make those same decisions on their behalf, because that way will surely lead to grid-lock; Eastsiders will have just enough votes to kill anything that improves mass transit options in Puget Sound, while we have the sheer volume of votes on this side to shoot down literally ANY increase in transportation infrastructure on their side of the mountains.

Posted by COMTE | April 15, 2008 1:40 PM
15

hmmm... gives me a good ideaer for a upsidedown don't be a dick hat trick trend... follow me to the that cave.

Posted by delusionalistdanny | April 15, 2008 1:51 PM
16

Well, seeing as how human-caused global warming would continue unabated for another hundred years if all humans disappeared tomorrow, and all humans are unlikely to disappear tomorrow, and in fact are busily ramping up their carbon output as fast as they possibly can, you could say that our environment is a bit destroyed, yes.

Posted by Fnarf | April 15, 2008 1:55 PM
17

@10

Not NASCAR. You don't ride in NASCAR, you drive. And you sure as hell don't drag a knee (one would hope). Valentino Rossi (or 'Tino Rossi as The Stranger always calls him) is a four time MotoGP world champion. That's motorcycles.

We could fit a Supermoto track in the Seattle Center, now that you float the idea...

Posted by elenchos | April 15, 2008 2:05 PM
18

Elenchos: YEAH GUY!

Posted by raymond | April 15, 2008 2:16 PM
19

Some of you are thinking. This is good to see. This Rossi roads thing is 100% cynical politics. He proposes building everything one point of view could dream of, all at once and faster than the projects could get built. This creates the license for his false cost projections.
Then the great wizard Dino suggests that he can fund all of this with existing money. I am sure this story has a ferry god mother in it somewhere.
At the federal level, when Bush says he will do something, build it, bomb it, or whatever, the federal debt just gets bigger and it is left up to the next Democratic President to pay down that debt. As disgusting as this pattern is, the lie is in the debt and the failure to pay as you go.
At the state level a Bushlike tool like Rossi should be shouted off stage when he pretends like he will just print more money to fund such proposals. States MUST balance their budget and so when you spend Billions you cannot in good faith suggest that you will do so by reaching into the general fund unless you tell the people what of equal value you will cut.
It is fine for candidate Dino to play the wizard but the fact is that when folks look behind the curtain what they will see is a little chubby guy perpetuating lie after lie in hopes that he can get elected.
It's fraud really and this tactic has paid off for Rossi before.

Posted by Particle Man | April 15, 2008 2:24 PM
20

A six-lane bare bones 520 could perhaps be done for $3.3 million: no extra mitigation, no fancy bridges and exits, no link to light rail, no amenities for affected Seattle neighborhoods, etc: build it *for cars* only and it might work.

Beyond seeking votes in suburban swing districts, the implicit message here is Screw Seattle and its uppity rail system.

Seattle-Bashing often succeeds in statewide elections.

Posted by BB | April 15, 2008 2:36 PM
21

“My vision for transportation is rooted in freedom and the ability of people to make good choices for themselves.”

Ok then: I choose that we build a special additional lane along SR-520 from Redmond to Seattle just for me!

As far as I'm concerned that's a good choice for myself.

Posted by Daniel K | April 15, 2008 2:48 PM
22

sounds like a 420, not a 520 plan.

Posted by can't resist the obvious | April 15, 2008 3:36 PM
23

Buy lanes in bulk and you save money.

Posted by damnqueerfuck | April 15, 2008 3:46 PM
24

Finally! Hopoefully this gets ram rodded thru and we have TRAFFIC RELIEF to catch us up with all the previous decades of delay that has caused us needless gridlock.

You granola cruncher eco rabid freaks don't represent hundreds of thousands of us who live on the Eastside and WANT to continue living a suburban semi rural lifestyle!

Who the hell are YOU to dictate my transit choices? Hell most of us are way more affluent than you'll ever dream of being. We sacrificed to have an SUV and larger home. That was OUR choice. Now I want OUR taxes to give me more roads!

Simple concept really. Stay the hell out of my voting booth! Screw your rapid bus transit bullshit. First let's fix the mess we've created across 520 and down I 405. After we get 6 lanes across all of those highway miles THEN we'll consider giving you some mass transit crumbs.

It gets sickening watching you freaks blather here boasting of your moral and eco superiority with your high and mighty transit bullshit.

There are 100 people to every one of you that want nothing more than extra lane miles!

You SLOG bloggers here should realize that there are hundreds of thousands who don't share your mass transit pipe dreams.

Get over yourselves.

Posted by Give me more lanes NOW | April 15, 2008 3:46 PM
25

Artless troll.

Posted by elenchos | April 15, 2008 3:50 PM
26

State Auditor Brian Sonntag's performance audit on the DOT, released in Oct 2007, said if the state adopts his recommendations, it'll result in a $3 billion economic benefit to the state (see below). Our initiative this year (I-985 "ReduceCongestion.org") and Rossi's plan follow the state auditor's recommendations, ours goes with the things that'll help the most in the short-term, his the long-term. I-985 uses 15% of vehicle sales tax revenue, Rossi's uses 40%. Most common comment we get from voters while getting signatures for I-985 is "it oughta be 100%". Voters clearly want their vehicle taxes to go to transportation.

Besides the $3 billion economic benefit from implementing his recommendations (see below), Auditor Sonntag has done 9 audits so far, making 434 recommendations resulting in $3.2 billion in potential savings for state government. He's providing state government with a roadmap to reform government to accommodate any transfer of vehicle sales tax revenues toward transportation.

FROM STATE AUDITOR'S WEBSITE:

October 2007

Washington Department of Transportation - Managing and Reducing Congestion in Puget Sound (file size 5MB)

Audit results

Recommendations: 22

Economic impact over five years: $3 billion in economic impact to citizens, businesses and the environment.

http://www.sao.wa.gov/reports/auditreports/auditreportfiles/ar1000006.pdf

Here's a quick summary of I-985:

I-985 accomplishes the following goals:

• illustrates the public's support for making reducing traffic congestion a top transportation priority
• opens up carpool lanes to everyone during non-peak hours
• requires local governments to synchronize traffic lights on heavily-traveled arterials and streets
• clears out accidents faster with expanded emergency roadside assistance
• uses a portion of vehicle sales tax revenue (15%) for these policies
• removes the profit motive for red light cameras
• replaces the percentage spent on public art to instead go toward reducing congestion
• institutes critical taxpayer protections on future tolls
• and empowers the State Auditor to monitor the implementation of the initiative's policies to ensure compliance.

-- END --

http://www.ReduceCongestion.org

Posted by Tim Eyman, I-985 co-sponsor, www.ReduceCongestion.org | April 15, 2008 3:59 PM
27

24 - No. But I'd pay a few bucks to see your head explode, assuming drinks are served.

P.S. I live in Seattle, and eat a big, juicy steak every day. No granola for me. But feel free to keep cornholing, I mean pigeonholing yourself.

Posted by wbrproductions | April 15, 2008 4:10 PM
28

it may seem artless, but i've heard pretty much close to that same exact rant from more then one coworker of mine...

Posted by infrequent | April 15, 2008 4:11 PM
29

I like the tunnel, and 405 needs more traffic lanes. But 8 lanes on 520 is just stupid. And Rossi must be pulling the cost out of his butt. It will be fun hearing him back up his bullshit with real numbers.

Posted by crazycatguy | April 15, 2008 4:43 PM
30

Anyone who has ever actually walked along Alaskan Way would realize how completely stupid the Surface Street "Option" is.

Pedestrians have a difficult enough time crossing that street as it is, and as a main thoroughfare it would be ridiculous.

If you made Third Ave. a main thoroughfare, you'd be pushing traffic through downtown neighborhoods, especially a large number of low-income apartments.

Also, you're not going to get a much larger number of people to all of the sudden stop using their cars to commute. A lot of the people who are already driving are blue-collar right-wingers from the suburbs who hate your Liberal guts and aren't going to stop driving their pickups and SUVs no matter how much you want them to.

So many of them have jobs or small businesses where they think they need to drive every day. They're just going to get pissed off.

So stop it with the surface street "option" garbage. It's not going to work.

Posted by Mike in Pioneer Square | April 15, 2008 4:51 PM
31

True. The whole city will grind to a halt for two years or more while it's being replaced with... something.

Posted by elenchos | April 15, 2008 5:00 PM
32

It is not by my choice when I have a job I have to drive to every day.

Fools.

Light rail is about choices. The choice not to contribute to global warming, the choice not to pave over our natural habitat and tear apart our neighborhoods with freeways, the choice not to support wars fought for oil.

It's about the choice to talk to people in your community on the way to work, the choice to live a healthy lifestyle that includes walking, the choice to have a more comfortable ride than buses, the choice to read a book on your commute, the choice to have a system that out-of-towners can figure out.

Your car is an illusion of freedom. Don't deny us a brighter future because you can't get over that.

Posted by Cale | April 15, 2008 5:19 PM
33

Light rail is about choices. The choice not to contribute to global warming, the choice not to pave over our natural habitat and tear apart our neighborhoods with freeways, the choice not to support wars fought for oil.

Oh, please. Go try to catch some salmon in the Grand Coulee behind the dam, or just about anywhere else on the Columbia behind the John Day or the Dalles or any of the other million dams. Then come back and tell us how much better light rail is for the environment. Or go look at a strip mine for coal. Because that's where the electricity for light rail comes. Or, better yet, take a look at the concrete they used in the Rainier Valley to PAVE FOR LIGHT RAIL! Concrete is concrete, whether it's for rail or cars.

Are cars perfect? No. Neither is light rail. Each choice has its tradeoffs. Don't act like light rail is some perfect solution that has no negative consequences, because it does.

Posted by Bax | April 15, 2008 5:41 PM
34

Oh. Well if were going to breach Grand Coulee along with adding all these new lanes, then maybe we can make a deal.

Posted by elenchos | April 15, 2008 5:51 PM
35

Cale - the only "fool" I see here is you. Seventy five percent of suburbanites and ruralites don't give a damn what you think about global warming or whether or not you don't want them to drive vehicles in Seattle.

In fact, some faction (hello energy companies) out there has done a pretty good job of convincing them that global warming is just a big conspiracy by liberals to deprive them of their "rights". (Try listening to 710 KIRO some time.) They're not going to stop driving their pickups for you.

Welcome to to that crazy place called "reality".

Posted by Mike in Pioneer Square | April 15, 2008 6:34 PM
36

I don't think listening to hyperventilating frothers on talk radio counts as data. Or "reality".

Posted by elenchos | April 15, 2008 7:00 PM
37

Yeah, you're absolutely right MiPS, we might as well just set off the world's collective stockpile of nukes right now and have done with, because, as we all know, people don't change their behavior for ANY reason whatsoever; not for the environment, not for their political and economic self-interest, not for the sake of their children and grandchildren; it's just not in the human beast's nature to change or adapt to new circumstances.

Let's face it, we're just a biological dead-end, so what's the point of even pretending we have some capacity for evolution or advancement?

I say we just end it all now, and let the rats and cockroaches take their rightful place as the new Rulers of the Earth.

Posted by COMTE | April 15, 2008 7:42 PM
38

Couple quick comments, maybe not made above already. Problem with 8 lanes on SR-520 bridge is, where do the two extra lanes tie into? There's no room on I-5 for that much extra traffic, nor at Montlake. It's a recipe for added congestion, where traffic on the extra lanes has to wait to merge into the regular lanes.

Oh, and how does he think that Sound Transit voters are going to vote to spend East Side money on highway lanes? He's really dreaming on that one.

Posted by Transit Voter | April 15, 2008 10:12 PM
39

@2 - so, basically, Fnarf, you think most voters want to vote to bankrupt the state and ignore reality ...

My.

You and Rossi must have some wonderful drugs.

Change is coming - and so is the Blue Tidal Wave. Nothing you can say will stop it.

Posted by Will in Seattle | April 15, 2008 11:46 PM
40

You know Will, I would love to believe in this Blue Tidal Wave you're espousing, but you've been so fundamentally wrong so many times (like your ranting just now) that I know it just can't be true and won't be happening.

Which is sad, because I want to believe.

Posted by Donolectic | April 16, 2008 4:42 PM
41

"Give me more lanes NOW" --

You do realize the new lanes will be completely clogged within, oh, about five minutes of opening? The traffic studies are pretty clear on this: six lanes, eight lanes, ten lanes, it'll just fill right up and slow right down during rush hour.

How about a *50-lane* bridge to replace SR520? That might actually relieve congestion!

Or, you could build something useful like a rail line -- a line like Central Link could carry about as many people during rush hour as the proposed 8-lane bridge, and do so faster. Make it a four-track, fully grade-separated line -- still taking up less real estate than the *current* bridge -- and it could move people equivalent to something like 30 lanes of traffic, no problem.

Obviously rail lines are a waste for low-capacity corridors, which is why you don't have a rail siding in your driveway. For jam-packed routes, however, they save a tremendous amount of space, concrete, and energy.

Posted by Anon. | April 22, 2008 11:39 PM

Comments Closed

In order to combat spam, we are no longer accepting comments on this post (or any post more than 45 days old).