Slog - Comments on Nature Abhors a Motherfucker http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker You've always known that envisioning sex with your dad/mom/sister/brother makes you want to die, now ABC News tells you why: [R]esearch suggests that the vast majority of us are hard-wired for revulsion when it comes to the idea of sex between a father and daughter or other family members...Evidence of such an inherent distaste for incest can be seen in studies on chimpanzees, our closest evolutionary relative. While chimps are known to be promiscuous—arguably even more so than humans—several studies have shown that they will also avoid having sex with other chimps with whom they can sense they are related.... Copyright 2008 Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:23:14 -0800 Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:30:32 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by elenchos Oldboy!

]]> elenchos http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993882 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993882 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:27:26 -0800 Comment by kid icarus Yes, but this theory does not account for nor justify the continued existence of Your Mama Don't Dance.

]]> kid icarus http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993889 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993889 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:35:35 -0800 Comment by Bellevue Ave anecdote that points to exception invalidates entire theory? cmon schmader.

]]> Bellevue Ave http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993890 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993890 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:36:04 -0800 Comment by Johnny What about the Ancient Egyptian pharoahs who were expected to marry their siblings and produce offspring? They somehow overcame the revulsion.

]]> Johnny http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993895 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993895 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:39:16 -0800 Comment by David Schmader 3: You're projecting. The story of the Australians is presented as support for the theory.

]]> David Schmader http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993902 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993902 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:42:09 -0800 Comment by Mr. Poe Penis.

]]> Mr. Poe http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993910 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993910 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:45:51 -0800 Comment by hmm @4-- I bet they raised the boys and girls mostly apart as children.

]]> hmm http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993913 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993913 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:47:35 -0800 Comment by ellarosa 4, for all we know, the court customs kept the siblings fairly isolated from each other socially, which would have eliminated the revulsion. these sorts of domestic details weren't recorded.

and natalie angier writes about female chimps taking huge risks to sneak off and mate among exogamous male chimps in other chimp tribes, thus exposing themselves and their offspring to male wrath within their own group. there's something driving them to broaden the gene pool. i wonder if this urge is stronger in females than males, as angier does not write about male chimps doing the same thing, but rather, pressuring the females to do the opposite.

]]> ellarosa http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993914 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993914 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:48:14 -0800 Comment by facts There's a follow-up story on the Australian couple that indicates they didn't tell the whole truth. Apparently they first met when she was 15 (not 30) and they previously had a child that died from congenital heart problems.

]]> facts http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993922 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993922 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:55:32 -0800 Comment by julia Bonobos are an even better example than chimps, because they fuck all day long, and they've also been observed to refrain from incest. Also, the females have an instinctual urge to leave their home group when they reach puberty, and find an unrelated group to join.

]]> julia http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993956 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993956 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:17:08 -0800 Comment by Gitai The Westermarck Effect fucked with Israeli kibbutzim, too, since in most of them, all children were raised together in one house. Therefore, they couldn't imagine fucking one another, and if they liked the kibbutz lifestyle, had to seek a mate in a different one, kind of like the bonobos @10.

]]> Gitai http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993988 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993988 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:40:53 -0800 Comment by Gloria Raping for REVENGE? Yes, that's pretty fucking disgusting, terrible, and disturbing. It's better than broiling a newborn, but definitely worse than melding your ass to a sofa.

Really? Ass on a sofa is even close to revenge-raping your mom to get back at your brother? I think this is the first time that I may believe you really hate fat people, Dan.

]]> Gloria http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993993 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c993993 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:44:12 -0800 Comment by Fifty-Two-Eighty Dan? Dan???

]]> Fifty-Two-Eighty http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994062 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994062 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:04:33 -0800 Comment by NaFun @12 KeeRazy, FTW!

]]> NaFun http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994069 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994069 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:08:18 -0800 Comment by David Schmader 12: I'm the other Stranger homosexual with the initials "DS". Also, my comparison wasn't based on which act was morally the worst, I was just name-checking those items that seemed to haunt peoples' brains with upsetting imagery. (And the lady on the couch was definitely one of them.)

]]> David Schmader http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994086 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994086 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:12:50 -0800 Comment by Olo Schmader: Help us out; please post some photos of your mom.

]]> Olo http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994098 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994098 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:14:24 -0800 Comment by Gloria @15: Oh, sorry, David. When I see incest, I think Dan.

I guess I have no point then.

]]> Gloria http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994106 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994106 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:15:59 -0800 Comment by Gloria And yes, I know you write Last Days.

I am crazy. Does a FTW mean just the win, or do I get a candy bar, or slap upside the head, or what?

]]> Gloria http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994111 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994111 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:17:44 -0800 Comment by Sister Y Yay, I get such a boner for stories that deal with ev bio intelligently.

8, that would square nicely with the Claus Wedekind study which found that women prefer the smell of men who are genetically dissimilar to them. Since it's the females who invest more in reproduction, they would be expected to be the ones who would make sure they're not bearing substandard fetuses. If a male impregnates his sister, it's not much of a loss to him in terms of genetic fitness, but it's a huge loss to her.

]]> Sister Y http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994170 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994170 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:33:35 -0800 Comment by Fifty-Two-Eighty @18, it means you get to fuck like a bonobo for the rest of the day. Just not with your father.

]]> Fifty-Two-Eighty http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994225 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994225 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:51:45 -0800 Comment by Sirkowski If your friend's mom is sexier than your own, you're normal.

]]> Sirkowski http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994230 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994230 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:52:20 -0800 Comment by johnnie How in the world can this story include no mention of the Oedipus complex or the relatively 'common' practice of sexual molestation of one's own children?

]]> johnnie http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994302 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994302 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:11:50 -0800 Comment by hmm @22-- actually its common for men to molest their step-children. Its much more rare for them to molest their own children that they've raised since infancy.

]]> hmm http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994305 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994305 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 15:15:30 -0800 Comment by idaho On adoption sites, they warn about moms-sons and fathers-daughters reuniting after being separated since birth and being sexually attracted to each other. I should note the sites suggest NOT acting on those sexual urges. I think. And who hasn't had a crush on a cousin or three?

No analysis -- just observation.

]]> idaho http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994822 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c994822 Science Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:39:16 -0800 Comment by mintygreen Actually, many studies suggest we're wired to be attracted to people who share around approximately the same amount of genes with us as our first cousins. Jared Diamond's "The Third Chimpanzee" is a good reference. Apparently we search out people with a certain amount of similarities (explains all those couples who look like brother and sister), even in terms of things we could only notice subconciously such as middle finger vs. index finger length ratios, or the minute differences in distances between eyes. But I suppose other factors such as the one mentioned here help us to make the distinction in between people with "just enough" similarities and too many.

]]> mintygreen http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c995086 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/04/nature_abhors_a_motherfucker#c995086 Science Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:30:32 -0800