i get just enough plastic bags from the grocery to use as garbage bags - (non-recyclable or non-compostable) kitchen waste, but more importantly to hold a week's worth of dog shit from the yard.

now i'm going to BUY plastic bags for the same purpose?

Peter Garrett ruled it out? That's kind of surprising.

Yes, you are. Because you should have to pay for those bags, so that you use less of them and so that people that don't reuse them think twice about taking them when they don't really need them.

If I can't get plastic bags to suffocate myself with, I will just go jump off a bridge.

i'd rather see them banned than surcharged.

I've been trying to be more "green" by purchasing the canvas bags. Problem is, I keep forgetting to bring them into the store with me. I do reuse the plastic ones for my cat poop (environmentally friendly pine litter btw) but I could easily use a paper bag for that as well. Same with the dog poop @1.

dan, i'd like to pay for a biodegradable garbage bag, but i don't know of one. do you? seems like wax-lined paper would do it.

i have no problem with the 20 cent fee, but buying plastic garbage bags from glad isn't going to cut my waste generation down, since i have the smallest trash can possible in seattle, & its never full. i'm doing a pretty good job cutting down on plastic bag usage as it is.

except for the dog shit.

It must be said that when plastic bags are outlawed, only criminals will have plastic bags.

If this observation has already been posted, I missed it because I was out making compost while others were composting here.

Max, I saw an article on biodegradable trash bags just the other day. Only problem is that I can't remember where I saw it. But they're out there.

@8 - Give me a break. The manufacture of plastic bags would be outlawed, not the possession.

When I go to the corner grocery to pick up a single item - a dozen eggs, a bottle of juice - they try to put my single item in a plastic bag. I always decline, but how many just grab that plastic bag and tote that single item back home?

Business need to be made to think about this. The bags are so cheap and ubiquitous that no business is going to go without unless the people step in and say "no more!"

It's called sarcasm. But when I do illegally use plastic, I hope my neighbors don't turn me in, and that's why I'm keeping a diary.

Wait, they are going to ban plastic bags from next year? Do the Australians possess some sort of time travel capabilities that we're unaware of?

How many more paper bags will get used by banning plastic bags? How many of you have read the research that paper bags are more damaging to the environment?

But nah, let's base our decisions on emotional reactions (like, plastic is bogus dude) rather than hard facts.

Hooray! We're discussing plastic bags again. I love discussing plastic bags! The answer is Soylent Green!

Oh, wait that was about something else...

Nevermind, carry on. Plastic bags bad, environment good etc.

Hey, I am all for banning plastic bags: as long as I can drive my Hummer all over town and especially for short 3 block drives I am totally fine!!!!

@6: The Trader Joe's ones fold up really small. I usually keep one in my bag/car/jacket etc.

@12: That's a totally acceptable use of the word "from"

This is the biggest non-issue, like, ever.

zzzzzzzzzzzz"A study released by the RAND Corporation reports that 300,000 U.S. troops deal with depression or post traumatic stress disorder and 320,000 suffered brain injuries stemming from their service in Iraq and Afghanistan."zzzzzzzzzz

Now, after that brief unauthorized pause, a return to entertainment by the savage warmongers at The Stranger.

@13, The answer is to use neither paper nor plastic. Get a reusable bag. Yes, paper and plastic bags have been shown to use about equal amounts of resources in their production. But A#1, paper bags generally speaking hold more groceries than plastic. A#2, paper bags do biodegrade. Plastic doesn't.

I'm not sure we should Ban them nasty old plastic bags because they're useful for so many things.....

right up until they become disconcerting and uncomfortable for each and everyone of us to answer specifically why we all have used them or not and would like to reserve the right

(or left)

and think about trying them {on for size} at least once... [just for the hell of it!]

And speaking of trying something once just for the hell of it...

I was at City Hall this morning in the Bertha Night room or the one by the fireplace and piano... I can't remember if there is a something before 'night' in the Bertha now.... (short term memory problems you see....) and low and behold what a moment to qualify short term memory problems as perfection in non-designable co-efficient existant random chance molecular per-me-a-if structuring because DESC was giving a private meeting on DRUG DEPENDANCY and the whatevers of whatever the private meeting was that I walked through the open door into an sat in on for a few minutes.

And guess what .... ( cause I know you care... ) {and have time to waste at work reading about this important and non randomn conundrum}

I learned some really good things about drug policy changes in the 1914 Harrison Narcotics Act that was passed and affected legal issues that ( I would guess ) impacted later legal issues with even more legal issues about drugs that were passed by drug legislators.

[Do I need to remind you that you can put either side of your feelings about plastic bags and drugs in paper bags to keep this on topic?]

So any way.... The 1914 Harrison Narcotics Act had some heavy hitters saying some important things in professional journals...( you net heads and techies who love statistics can do your own research... I just like to waste time talking casually about the " usual suspicions") and the possible and probable outcome of of the passage of the 1914 Harrison Narcotics Act , as it was being reported on by the DESC speaker Chris...

one of which was the interesting fact that proved true... of course...more crime and police action and dependancy and incarceration and racial disparities with the crimminalization of the drugs readily available before tha passage of the 1914 Harrison Narcotics Act.

Well any way you all who know about your feelings and experiances with drugs don't need another useless lecture on drugs from me.... but the interesting thing I would like to say lyrically is that if you follow the usual reasoning for tight drug reform mentality this should be a resonable and rational if not inflammitory line of thought...

Gateway Drug Disclaimer:

Drug opponents or Law enforcement conservatives usually say some thing like this for the tight assed funding consortiums.

Marijuana, pot.... grass... reefer... weed... usually leads to coke and heroin and meth and the prostitution of your grandmother and children on the internet after you can't sell your neighbors tv set when they leave to run to the 7-11 to by the last minute lotto ticket 5 minutes before the drawing of the week.

Drug advocates and people who get miffed at the tighty mighty thinkers ( those who may or may not tee-totler their way to a dinner cocktail or extra cup of coffee on the way to church or the spa...) ask the question... what came before POT? was it Alcohol? Tabbacco? Sugar on your cereal?

I know what it was ladies and gentelmen...
It was the Sperm In the OVUM!!!!

( Lyrically speaking this is where I think I catch the little cute profound blase' tones in the singers voice... when he says
" how profound " and out of woman comes the man... spends the rest of his life getting back when he can... " and other nicely done ditties from his catalouge... and again you techies and lyric experts can doo your own research to figure out
(duh!)which usual suspect I quote in music)
All those obsticles to manuver into and around at the disco and walla!!!!!

(uh... sperm, ovum, egg and uh....oh yeah!)

Finally something your lips could taste later on after about 8 or 10 months if you weren't a preemie... and that's right... whether or not you are straight, gay, bi- b-twisty or flat out gender-bending mind blowingly glamourus you had to have a lttle milk from the best of the best.... THE BREAST. I rest my case for hand to mouth subliminal conditioning. Damn... I'd sure like a .... well I don't want to let out too much of my inner tiger now do I ?

I'm not sure we should Ban them nasty old plastic bags because they're useful for so many things.....

right up until they become disconcerting and uncomfortable for each and everyone of us to answer specifically why we all have used them or not and would like to reserve the right

(or left)

and think about trying them {on for size} at least once... [just for the hell of it!]

And speaking of trying something once just for the hell of it...

I was at City Hall this morning in the Bertha Night room or the one by the fireplace and piano... I can't remember if there is a something before 'night' in the Bertha now.... (short term memory problems you see....) and low and behold what a moment to qualify short term memory problems as perfection in non-designable co-efficient existant random chance molecular per-me-a-if structuring because DESC was giving a private meeting on DRUG DEPENDANCY and the whatevers of whatever the private meeting was that I walked through the open door into an sat in on for a few minutes.

And guess what .... ( cause I know you care... ) {and have time to waste at work reading about this important and non randomn conundrum}

I learned some really good things about drug policy changes in the 1914 Harrison Narcotics Act that was passed and affected legal issues that ( I would guess ) impacted later legal issues with even more legal issues about drugs that were passed by drug legislators.

[Do I need to remind you that you can put either side of your feelings about plastic bags and drugs in paper bags to keep this on topic?]

So any way.... The 1914 Harrison Narcotics Act had some heavy hitters saying some important things in professional journals...( you net heads and techies who love statistics can do your own research... I just like to waste time talking casually about the " usual suspicions") and the possible and probable outcome of of the passage of the 1914 Harrison Narcotics Act , as it was being reported on by the DESC speaker Chris...

one of which was the interesting fact that proved true... of course...more crime and police action and dependancy and incarceration and racial disparities with the crimminalization of the drugs readily available before tha passage of the 1914 Harrison Narcotics Act.

Well any way you all who know about your feelings and experiances with drugs don't need another useless lecture on drugs from me.... but the interesting thing I would like to say lyrically is that if you follow the usual reasoning for tight drug reform mentality this should be a resonable and rational if not inflammitory line of thought...

Gateway Drug Disclaimer:

Drug opponents or Law enforcement conservatives usually say some thing like this for the tight assed funding consortiums.

Marijuana, pot.... grass... reefer... weed... usually leads to coke and heroin and meth and the prostitution of your grandmother and children on the internet after you can't sell your neighbors tv set when they leave to run to the 7-11 to by the last minute lotto ticket 5 minutes before the drawing of the week.

Drug advocates and people who get miffed at the tighty mighty thinkers ( those who may or may not tee-totler their way to a dinner cocktail or extra cup of coffee on the way to church or the spa...) ask the question... what came before POT? was it Alcohol? Tabbacco? Sugar on your cereal?

I know what it was ladies and gentelmen...
It was the Sperm In the OVUM!!!!

( Lyrically speaking this is where I think I catch the little cute profound blase' tones in the singers voice... when he says
" how profound " and out of woman comes the man... spends the rest of his life getting back when he can... " and other nicely done ditties from his catalouge... and again you techies and lyric experts can doo your own research to figure out
(duh!)which usual suspect I quote in music)
All those obsticles to manuver into and around at the disco and walla!!!!!

(uh... sperm, ovum, egg and uh....oh yeah!)

Finally something your lips could taste later on after about 8 or 10 months if you weren't a preemie... and that's right... whether or not you are straight, gay, bi- b-twisty or flat out gender-bending mind blowingly glamourus you had to have a lttle milk from the best of the best.... THE BREAST. I rest my case for hand to mouth subliminal conditioning. Damn... I'd sure like a .... well I don't want to let out too much of my inner tiger now do I ?

@9 - biodegradable plastic bags have been available on the market since the late 1970s - when they were test-marketed to subscribers of Harrowsmith magazine and members of SESCI. They're photo-reactive, in that exposure to the sun starts a degradation process that starts the decomposition, which continues even in a landfill.

oh, and a better idea (my opinion as someone who used them) is not to get biodegradable plastic bags, but instead to stuff your groceries in a backpack you take to the grocery store at the checkout. Then no bag, no waste, arms are free to carry any extra bags, and you can have some previously used bags you brought to the store with you.

Plastic bags fit easily in the little wallet zip folded up, IMHO, and are easier to store than paper bags.

Carry fish in your hands and use them to knock unconscious anyone trying to commit suicide who's riding up the elevator to the top floor since they put up those stupid barrier fences.

I'm skeptical that the corn-based plastic bags actually biodegrade in landfills, which are perfectly light-tight, but then neither do paper bags. NOTHING biodegrades in landfills except particularly wet food remnants.

Peter Garrett? Of Midnight Oil fame?

Both of my e-mails posted at Koolhaus Library in Seattle when I caught someone double screening me or somebody bugging my screen when I was checking for spelling and breaking out the paragraph blocks for easy view reading by you people out there...

(a nice thing for me to do for you and thank you for reading...)

the thing is I had to come over to Kirkland Library to read if it posted and now I know both posted and so did the guy below named Will...

...odd ....or is it just another intrusive fix me up that I should be thankful for...

and by the way...there should be a "i" in the 'lttle' in the last paragraph of my previous attempt to SLOG about plastic bags, yet found someone on my screens back door or page or whatever it was when I tried to correct spelling errors so I wouldn't look stupid.

Now who looks stupid... the Screeners on the backside or the honest attempt by me to be reasonable with my handlers at Justice or the supreme sport of eavesdropping....?

@24 - actually, the photo-REACTIVE panel threads start a chemical degradation when exposed to sunlight and air, which continues in a landfill. They basically fall apart, but if in an airtight dark location the rate does slow down. They lose their bag nature, becoming tiny squares that eventually fall apart.

Yes, @25, Peter Garrett of Midnight Oil fame. He's now the Environmental Minister in Australia.

How about we do something even more immediately effective:

-- Require all restaurants to NOT serve glasses of WATER, except upon customer request.

And then, DON'T KEEP REFILLING THEM so that the glasses are still full at the end of the meal and are put down the drain.

How many gallons of fresh drinking water would we save a day?
Lots.

SOYLENT GREEN IS MADE OF CHARLTON HESTON!