Maybe they could put up some sort of net 10 feet down that would catch jumpers. They have something like that at the space needle don't they?

amen, dan.

i would echo the net idea...all you need is a simple deterent to allow people to think things over a little more. if someone is bound and determined they will of course find a way.

You're a good person. You're just a bad copy editor.

Mmmmm...

If they put up barriers, depressed people will just kill themselves somewhere else.

No lives will be saved, and views will be obstructed, the bridge will be made a little uglier, a little beauty will be lost, someone will get depressed and kill themselves.

Put a big trampoline under the bridge.

Who gives a fuck if somebody jumps off? If they really want to kill themselves they'll do it someplace else after you've ruined the view. What, you're gonna put trampolines all around tall buildings to prevent people from killing themselves by defenestring themselves?

Simply put, people have the right to kill themselves.

Having read the webpage for the advocacy group that pushed this threw, it seems that the greater concern was for property damage from falling bodies, and people being confronted with the bodies down below.

My solution (and for the record, my office in at the Fremont Bridge, facing the infamous "Fremont Falls") is to provide a designated jump point for those so inclined, with a fence around it on the ground. No-one's houseboat gets hit, no-one has to see the body, remote sensors call the cleanup crew when impact is detected. Seriously.

If the City wants to prevent suicides, they should put some money into early detection of all those drunken wrong-way drivers who appear to kill more innocents than the handful of Aurora Bridge jumpers.

@7: lol
@6: Clearly you know absolutely nothing about the psychology of suicide.

Having read the webpage for the advocacy group that pushed this threw

I have to assume the misuse of "threw" for "through" is an attempt at an ironic reference to "jump."

You are a bad person, Dan, but so am I.

I live in Fremont and I agree about the "cage" -- even despite the fact that a few years back, while I was on an early morning walk down by the canal, I came across the floating body of a man who'd apparently jumped from the bridge the night before. (And before I'd even had my first coffee! Eegha!!!)

By the same token, I think the real reason why Seattlites didn't vote to tear down the Viaduct was that in their heart-of-hearts they really, really love that view of the Sound as you drive into town. (Even though they can't ever admit to it openly -- not a green enough sentiment after all.)

What the hell is wrong with you people?

Dan, seriously: what if it was your husband? What if it was your son?

ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE GET DEPRESSED. Suicide is not the result of a rational evaluation of life's options; it's a sign of a mental illness. A mental illness that is subject to fleeting crises, which very often pass if the opportunity is lost and help is given.

If you think it won't be, can't be, your husband or son, you're wrong; and it IS always someone's son or daughter.

Remember this: Ayn Rand and Hitler and Gloria Gaynor were wrong. Life is not a contest to see who's strongest. We are all weak, we all need each other.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

put in a free carbon monoxide dispenser at jump sites.

problem solved.

What a bummer, man, they want to make a viewkill on a bridge just to save lives. Frankly, I find big ass AIDS prevention billboards ugly and damaging to my appreciation of the sky. Trash those too.

OH BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME!

Oh, really?

#9, right on, on all counts.

#10, please educate us, then.

#13, what is the statement that "suicide is not based on a rational evaluation of life options" based on? Suicide is *defined* as a mental illness; it's not in-and-of itself a mental illness. If we don't have the right NOT to exist, aren't we all slaves? Indeed, it's "always somebody's son or daughter" - suicide is horribly painful for people left behind. But no one has a right to anyone else's company or even continued existence, except that person.

@8 People have the right to kill themselves, but they should be courteous about it. People who jump off the Aurora Bridge end up traumatizing people who work beneath the bridge when their corpses land next to them. It's also costly to search for their bodies if they make it into the water.

They should do it right, by carbon monoxide poisoning or pills, so they can have the appearance of just being asleep. It'll still be a terrible shock to those who find them, but much less than if they find them hanging, in a bathtub with wrists slit, or bloated from floating in the Sound for three or four days, with little bits eaten off them by fish. It's just good manners.

Fuck you, and fuck you hard, Sister Y. You sound like the stupidest fucking Ron Paultard in the world. "Aren't we all slaves" -- which fucking Ayn Rand toilet paper roll did you read that on?

Here's a tip for you all: involuntary commitment saved my life. Suicide intervention saved my life, and I'll bet it saved some other people here who haven't said anything. Mental illness affects millions of people. Slaves? Slaves to our brain chemistry maybe.

You, Sister Y, are a slave to sociopathic impulses you have no understanding of. You think you're magically "free" but you're the biggest robot of them all.

If they can't die that way, they'll just jump the railing and run into traffic, anyway.

I'm with Dan on this one. To everyone who is so pro-barrier:

A barrier doesn't solve the problem of suicidal people. If it did, it would be well worth the expenditure of tax dollars and the destruction of a beautiful view.

The only problem it solves is that of suicides killing themselves in one particular way that jeopardizes unsuspecting motorists, boaters, and pedestrians.

Let's face it: even suicidal people are creative, and in a free society, you can't stop someone who is really determined to end his or her own life. Even when suicidal people are locked up and monitored, they still find ways to off themselves.

So instead trying to nerf the world, I propose a two-pronged solution:

1. Spend the barrier money instead on an investment in mental health services to improve early detection and prevention of depression, and

2. A spot on the bridge marked "Jump here!" in day-glow letters, with a specially reserved and sectioned-off concrete slab below to prevent innocent bystanders from being hit or property from being damaged.

This strikes at the core of what is deeply, deeply wrong with America: believing the world is perfectable, and ruining it in the process of getting there. In Mexico, people get that life is risky - you need to be careful so things that might kill you, water, cliffs, animals, etc., don't. You don't see people not building a beautiful garden on the edge of a scenic drop because someone might fall (or jump) off, or not having a pool you can access without a key because they would need a million-dollar insurance policy to make sure someone's kid doesn't wander in unsupervised and die. No diss on people who die in accidents, but THEY HAPPEN, and you cannot legislate them out of existence. Particularly suicides. Does whoever is responsible for this really believe that someone intent on killing themselves is going to not do it because they can't jump off the Aurora Bridge? Or are they just too cheap to pick up the bodies? This view is another part of the soul of Seattle that is being legislated, gentrified, stupidified away. There are lots of great cities in the world where their best features are not constantly being eroded by stupid people. Move to one. (Especially my friends: choose Mexico City.)

I give up. Suicidal people will find some other way to do it if you put up a fence. And you can get HIV from tears. And abstinence education reduces teen pregnancy. And global warming is a hoax.

Science is just a liberal myth created by the reality based community.

A barrier will simply move Seattle Suicide Central elsewhere. We got plenty o' bridges.

Suicide is not the result of a rational evaluation of life's options

Really?

My partner evaluated his situation and decided that, mentally competent, he'd rather be dead. And so he died, on his own terms. He had options, like amputation and other painful things, but he decided to call the shots and go on his own terms.

I'm proud of him for that, even though I miss him every day and I will always disagree with his decision, because it robbed me of a ballsy guy.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

I'm glad you think that--for you--you have such a grasp on black-and-white issues. For me, my lover knew I disagreed, but I had no choice but to go with his wishes.

All I know for sure is that he's no longer on this physical plane and living a life he didn't want, in pain. Whether you're religious or not, he doesn't hurt now, and nothing else can get to him.

I am sorry for your situation, Fnarf, and glad you like your life now, even though you say mean things about me. It sounds like involuntary commitment and intervention really were the best thing in your case.

oh, and @9 wins. Unlike Fnarf, I've never been arrested or committed ... (grin) ... but I have seen plenty of suicides. It's not pretty.

You people who are confusing people who end their life of endless physical suffering with the people who jump off bridges are ignorant fools. So are you worthless twats who think "oh, they'll just jump out into traffic instead". You make me ashamed to be human.

Sister Y, you are an agent of harm. Go to hell.

God you people are assholes. I guess compassion isn't very fashionable among Slog readers. Shame.

Thanks as always Fnarf for the needed dose of reality and common sense. I swear some of you people must be the same ones who shouted at the woman to jump off the I-5 bridge a few years ago.

My apologies for not providing links, but I think one of the design ideas discussed uses glass panels with overhangs-- hard to climb yet easy to see through. So it's probably premature to conclude that we'll be stuck with a crappy chain link fence.

It doesn't have to be ugly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_Veil

Does the Golden Gate Bridge have fences?

Those people that Jumped from the burning towers in NYC on 9-11 were pushed into an intolerable mental and physical state. They jumped out of those tall buildings in an attempt (in their desperate minds and bodies) to save themselves. They were not mentally ill, but the situation was insane, their minds had only insanity to work with and build a resolution with.

People in an ill state of mind are feeling a push to get out of the intolerable situation too. A view is a little thing to lose if it allows the mentally ill a few more minutes to deal with the intolerable situation and possibly see their way thru to a healthy state of mind later. Compassion for the mentally ill is lacking in America.

Let's just tear the bridge down....

Agreed, Jerod.

What the hell is going on here lately?

Thank you, Sargon.

I agree.
Instead I think they should paint uplifting quotes on the railing.
Like "hang in there". You know with the kitten and everything.

Those people jumped out of the towers to save themselves from being burned alive, not to potentially save themselves from dying. They simply took the lesser of two evils. Sounds pretty rational given the situation.

There's PLENTY of compassion for the mentally ill but I'm not going to cover every square inch of the earth in mattresses to save these people. Perhaps we should ban belts too? And guns? And pills?

So let me get this straight.

All we have to do to end suicide everywhere and forever is fence in the Aurora Bridge?

If that's true, do it!

If not, don't.

jesus fucking christ.

whether or not you believe that the fence will lessen the overall amount of suicide, can't we all just agree that no one deserves to have a dead body fall onto their car or home?

if all the fence will do is prevent that, then I think it is justified.

@39

I've known more than a couple of complete ass holes that absolutely deserve to have a dead body fall onto their car or home...

Without knowing the cost of this cage on a bridge ($7 million ?) or how many lives a year it saves (3? 6?), and the cost and benefits of alternative measures (help centers, staffing, psychiatrists, meds), we don't know if this is smart, or a waste of money.

We do know the cage on a bridge seems to focus dollars at the exact point where suicides are most in the public eye.

Is it to prevent suicides, or to ensure we don't see them?

the bridge is the only place to die man, it's like the Cha-Cha of the damned.

Oh yes, let's just give up on the suicidal because they are going to kill themselves ANYWAY!!!

I mean seriously, WTF? Where did all of Slog get their amateur psych degrees? Dumb and Insensitive University?

Newsflash: not all suicidal people end up going through with it. In fact many don't. And many who attempt suicide and fail, end up later leading rewarding lives. And don't try to kill themselves again.

Everyone can agree that putting up a barrier would not wipe suicide from the face of the Earth, or even Seattle. Would it help? Sure. Maybe not.

Put it up, don't put it up - the real question will be, what do we do next?

@41

I think you know the answer to you question. Remember this is Seattle. See no evil...

(And anyone who thinks this is about the jumpers is crazy... this is ALL about the businesses under the bridge. Occasional reminders that, for some, the world sucks and that every once in a while someone chooses to opt out and not pass go again is BAD FOR BUSINESS.)

Thank you, arduous.

This isn't about views from the bridge and it isn't about fuckin' property values, either. It is about people, with reasons known truly only to themselves, want to end their lives. A barrier won't stop those who have gotten to this point from finding another way, and I think we all know that. And folks who are sick of running into dead bodies must come to terms with the harsh realities of life...it involves death, no matter which way you cut it.

When I first started working with the homeless, many of whom deal with mental illness, I would come home crying. In a two week span I drove four people to the emergency room for 'suicidal ideation': talking about wanting to die at their own hand. I've chased men down city streets to yell, scream, coerce, hug, and try to love that feeling of isolation and misery away. I couldn't understand that spark that makes someone feel so hopeless they'd rather not see another day. But it exists, and all we can do is try to give everyone in our lives the knowledge that they have our love and support, unconditionally. Not just saying it, but acting it.

The barrier will do nothing and stating that fact does not make Mr. Savage a bad person. It is prevention, the months and weeks and days before a person steps on the Aurora bridge, that will save a life.

Why not build the barrier out of transparent aluminum? (Yes, it really exists - I'm not making a joke.)

YES, spend the millions of dollars to fund counseling programs instead. or build something happy and useful in this fucking grey town.
how about a park at either end of the bridge? with toys? they would have to walk through it to get onto the bridge itself...

helix - how about a petting zoo with puppies and kitties and unicorns and free candy and hugs and lolruses. I still think the bong hits would do wonders as well.

A barrier won't stop those who have gotten to this point from finding another way

Why don't they just put up a "No Jumping" sign?

Fnarf, thanks for your honesty. You aren't the only one here who has been seriously depressed.

The Sagamore Bridge in Massachusetts connecting Cape Cod to the mainland has a sign posted by the pedestrian sidewalk with the number of a suicide prevention hotline (or at least it did in the late '80s). I'm glad it did. Just saying.

@21: Amen. I just spent some time in Mexico at some tourist-y attractions and was struck by how natural and normal it was. Were the stairs in the cliff a little rough with no handhold? Were the sides of the river pointy and sharp rocks? Was there (gasp) a cliff overlooking the water? (and so on) Yes. But it's prettier, and much more enjoyable, than legislate-ourselves-into padded-rooms-to-be-safer America would have built it.

Dan: thanks for the post. We hear you.

I've worked as a therapist with suicidal people. Suicide is a very difficult subject for many people to even think about. I think it scares people and they tend to react in a variety of ways to defend themselves from the deep fear around the subject: some with anger or resignation, others with full blown philosophical arguments or less thought out personal philosophies that get them through the day.

So Fnarf, I think that what may be going on for some of the people commenting here is that they are scared of the subject and have some defenses at the ready to protect themselves. Not that surprising really. How many people are comfortable with subject of death, let alone the idea of choosing it?

While it is true that a determined person often can end their life, even when precautions are taken, access to and ease of method make a tremendous difference. Thus, a motion or pressure activated net that opens up under the jump area might be an effective deterrent. This would be a fairly lo-tech solution that would stay hidden most of the time. Furthermore, once it was known that such a device was in place (signs, camera's, hot line phones), most of those inclined toward this method would likely either reconsider or choose a different method/location. This would buy time where they might be reached by those around them.

Btw, in case people don't know, whenever someone indicates they are suicidal, even if they are "joking", please take it very seriously. They are asking for help as best they can or they wouldn't be mentioning it.

Also, for those who have a friend who is depressed, please realize that if the depression starts to lift, the person is still in danger. They may still be suicidal but because they are less dysfunctional they may be more able to act. They may seem happy because they have a plan, the means and the intent.
Take care all.

Thank you, Fnarf. Thank you. I agree with you 100%.

We need more compassion in this world! Some of you -- Phil @8, wow -- you really horrify me. A person considering suicide is literally engaged in a life-or-death struggle. To complain that they are annoying, or lack good manners (?!), or might obstruct our view (!?!) is just ... I don't even know what to say. Except that people who suffer so profoundly deserve our respect and our compassion. It's one of life's basic lessons, and a mark of our humanity.

How about this: we create 4 $10 dollar an hour jobs for college students to walk suspicious people across the bridge. staff it at all times and let students get work study credit. It sure would cost a lot less than building the fence, and it would be great exp. for the kids to be a part of the community.

Life sucks, get a helmet. Just try not to buy the 8 million dollar helmet and ask me to pay for it. The 10 dollar version will do.

I'm with Fnarf. Suicide has nothing to do with rationality. People like to assign humans free will on a philosophical basis, but the fact is free will has not been proven to exist, and nor are humans found to be rational- the idea that we are all rational is a dated nineteenth century view of human psychology. Basically, the science is behind Fnarf and others who know that severe depression is a mental disorder and that people who commit suicide are NOT healthy and often times impulsive. The science is not behind some kind of weakness/strength pseudo-philosophy or a civil liberation perspective. Unless we're talking about assisted suicide, which is its own issue.

But this country is a country of selfish me me pricks who make everything into an individualist, libertarian viewpoint. Everyone has a right to suffer, die and be exploited. And everyone has a right to not give a fuck or even try to be compassionate. Oh noes, I might lose my beautiful view because some pricks wanted to kill themselves. Boo fucking hoo, why not do something for the common good for once? Too much to ask for, or is your view really that important?

57: Wow, thanks for demonstrating my point. God forbid our tax dollars ever go to helping someone else. Certainly, the market has a solution!

Fnarf? I get it. The barrier will save lives, like I acknowledged in my post, and I understand that it ought to go up. To, you know, save those lives. The barrier has been under discussion—this is Seattle, after all—for... what? Two or three years now? And this is the first I've written about it. And I'm not going to do anything about it—anything to stop it. I'm just going to toss one measly post up on Slog that says, "Well, there's a downside to this, a small aesthetic loss for all, which I suppose we have to accept to save a few. But, like, whatever."

I'm allowed to say that, right? I'm allowed to have, you know, feelings about stuff? And to express them? I'm not crusading against the barrier here, Fnarf. Please reserve the vitriol for someone that has earned it.

And how dare you lump Gloria Gaynor in with Hitler and that Rand woman? How DARE you?

I don't believe I've ever seen Fnarf so...intense.

At the risk of disturbing him further, what interests me about this "discussion" is the meme that tells us we should want to keep as many humans alive as possible, including those that don't want to be alive. I'm not saying we shouldn't, but I don't think I could make a case for why we should.

Um, is there an option for partial fencing? Like, near the areas where people could get hurt below? The view is salvaged, and the most popular and sadly gruesome section of the bridge where most choose to jump is fenced off.

I feel awful for these people, but if we fence Aurora, we eventually fence the entire cityscape of bridges. Imagine 520 fenced. The longest floating fenced bridge in the world.

And while I want these people to survive, plenty of people who are not suicidal die every day as victims of car accidents. Getting more people to use transit will reduce as many lives -- of people who actually want to live -- as those who jump off bridges. Likely more.

Cue the eventual Light Rail suicides. Ask anyone in Vancouver about Skytrain suicides. Not happy stuff.

i imagine many people kill themselves for many different reasons, and maybe some can be stopped, and some can't.



i'm not a researcher, and i'm not a therapist, but my dad killed himself a couple of years back. he planned it for months - tried and failed to buy a gun, ultimately stole my brother's handgun, covered his tracks, drove out to the lake and shot himself in the head.



he was determined, and we can never know if we could have stopped him. that's a big part of the pain of those of us left behind.



it seems to me that the bridge has been identified as an easy place to kill oneself, and therefore a public health risk, though. just fix it.



oh, and @Fnarf - to place Gloria Gaynor in company with Hitler is almost as abhorrent as the act of suicide itself. shame on you.

oh, and sorry about the weirdly formatted comment @66. stupid style sheets.

I'm all for the net idea, especially if they don't know it's there. It'll piss 'em off.

Then again, some asshole will probably bring scissors.

yes people will find other ways to die and other places to jump and most will try to take it back when is too late. a barrier will save lives. suicide happens in stages, is not like depress people decide, im gonna go jump. its a process and all along that process before the person decides to end it, there are ways to help them and stop them. for those who compare this to those that choose to die because of a terminal illness, you are wee idiots.

thats not the point. the point is that to some the bridge is symbolic for whatever reason, and a barrier will remove that option. i agree is a small thing.

humans are a narcistic lot, it is always "someone else" who dies, as animals we think, that it will not happen to us and that death is what happens to someone else so we try to be cool and say we dont care about jumpers or others.

i recomend everyone watch the documentary the bridge.

narcicistic. sorry tons of typos.

My Gloria Gaynor comment was in reference to a little ditty called "I Will Survive", which I really do hope was by her. It was pointing at the sudden appearance on Slog of a certain repulsive "destroy the weak" mentality that has arisen here today. We are all weak. How we treat people who are weaker than us is a good measure of how decent we are.

And because life without outrageous analogies frankly isn't worth living. Give me Gloria Gaynor and Hitler or I'm ending it all.

This post is dumbfounding. Just really odd.

It's a petty and callous thing to complain about the loss of a view on a bridge that wasn't built for the view in the first place. If the view was going away for no good reason, I could see mentioning it.

As you say, you're entitled to your opinion. Even though it's bizarre and surprisingly unsympathetic.

I couldn't agree with Dan any more. People who want to kill themselves will just do it elsewhere; putting a fence up won't solve anything and will look damn ugly

People who want to kill themselves will just do it elsewhere.*

* Except on planet Earth in a place we call "reality."

1. http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2003/10/13/031013fa_fact

2. at least dan admitted that he was "a bad person" and said that putting up the barrier wasn't the end of the world. some of you guys are really brutal and staggeringly uninformed.

3. i walked across that bridge once. it was terrifying.

And Dan, my vehemence is mostly directed at others. A little of it is for you, but you said yourself you're a bad person. So am I.

I walked across the Golden Gate bridge as they were building a "don't jump" fence. It is chain link, and completely ruins the view. It was really obvious, since most of the bridge wasn't fenced, and was glorious, and some was, and was dreary.

I understand that suicide is often irrational, and often a disease of opportunity. That making it a little harder will save lives of people who later are grateful they didn't make that mistake. Still, there are lots of things we could do to save lives, and many of them don't make the world uglier for everyone else.

I don't know that bridge. I don't know how nice the view is, or how many people use it to kill themselves, or how ugly the fencing will be. But I know that every choice has costs and benefits, and I, for one, regret the fencing of the Golden Gate bridge.

I expect some of the Savagenauts in here would agree with Dan if he said we should remove safety rails from cribs because it makes it harder to see the babies and looks all prison like. Sorry, but that post has a trollish quality about it, one intended to piss people off and lacking any sort of redeeming value.

"I kind of agree with Dan on that. I mean if we raise babies behind bars is it any wonder some of them become criminals?"

Seriously, do many normal people really think an unobstructed view off of a stupid bridge you drive over is worth continued bridge suicides?

Probably.not.

Again - No one jumps off the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge because pedestrian traffic is simply not permitted and further obstructed because:

1) there are no sidewalks and
2) few people walk on freeways

Only in Seattle would people spend a shitpot full of money to fence a bridge when all you have to do is put up signs saying "No Pedestrian Traffic Permitted" and close the sidewalks.

Tell me if I am over-simplifying this issue. Now at post 80 or so, this issue has now become terminally boring, and we'll be moving on to albino pit bulls and whether Obama wears the faux redwhite&blue patriotic brooch so enamoured of people who sport "support the troops" yellow ribbons on the back of their SUVs. Not unlike guys who wear the red AIDS ribbon and advertise for bare-backing opportunities.

No wait fuck before I go to bed let me just say I think pit bull youth pastors can suck it.

Riddle me what up with you (or me) walking across the narrow pedestrian path on the Ballard Bridge and a bicycle rides up your ass and like breathes down your neck so you'll press up against the rail and let them by. Or the polite ones do. The rest just muscle past you and laugh.

And then you get to work and some bike jock in a marble bag goes off about how a car was riding his butt and he took the whole fucking lane and don't these latte sipping fat asses know bicyclists have rights?

And... well fuck I don't know it's ironic and if you have to cross the Ballard Bridge rent a car or something first there's a U Haul and a Flexcar right at either end where you can do just that. Thanks. Don't kill yourself it ain't the way to go peace out.

@77 the chain link fence has to do work work being done on the bridge... it is not a suicide prevention attempt. However SF is studying barrier alternatives http://www.ggbsuicidebarrier.com

That said, while I understand the need for barriers I'm really not a supporter It is a lot of money that I believe could be better spent on programs that could help the many, not just the few.

And lastly, I don't agree that all suicidal people are mentaly ill or are so physically ill that they want out. I think it is possible to think things through and rationally come to the decision that you no longer want to live. You may say that just means I need professional help but I believe it anyway.

@58: God. If you really believe this

People like to assign humans free will on a philosophical basis, but the fact is free will has not been proven to exist, and nor are humans found to be rational- the idea that we are all rational is a dated nineteenth century view of human psychology.

That's an incredibly depressing world view. If we have no free will and we're just slaves to biology or impulses than what's the point?

80 friggin' comments, and no one has yet mentioned the most spectacular suicide from the Aurora Bridge ever -- the passenger who shot the driver of his Metro bus, then himself. The bus plunged from the bridge onto the street below, sending plenty of people to the hospital. He packed more mayhem into that one suicide than we've seen in all of the rest since.

And a fence would have done nothing to stop him...

One thing also that is missing is that some people want to kill themselves publicly - they WANT to be in the newspaper the next morning; if you deny them that one last wish when you force them to die in their bedrooms alone while their pets feed on their decaying corpses.

Fnarf@13: Thanks for comparing Ayn Rand (ethnically Jewish) to Hitler. Way to downplay the Holocaust by comparing it to the "crime" of writing the Fountainhead.

You're attacking people for being selfish, Fnarf, but ultimately suicide is one of the most selfish choices a person can make: It's acting on the belief that ending your own pain is more important that the effect it will have on the people you leave behind.

We should try to help each other and provide counseling for those who want it but ultimately we are each responsible for ourselves.

i think the cage is fitting. it already feels like you're heading into shawshank when you go across the fremont bridge into fremont (cause of those horrible tan brick buildings.)

this would just complete the experience when you hit 99 back downtown.

I'm not gonna lie, I didn't read all 84 comments before I writing this. I did, however, comment when Jonah Spangenthal-Leehad wrote an article on March 25th regarding this topic, but I put my message up well after the article had been posted and I don't think anyone read it. I'll put my comment here again since I caught this post sooner.

Um, I hate to be crass, but since no one has really said it this bluntly...

Why not just let them jump?

Upon this re-read I wanted to edit that a bit, but I'll just clarify the important bit instead.

Upon further consideration I've decided that either it's more expensive to deal with the suicides than constructing a fence, someone in charge of this sort of thing cared for someone who used the bridge to end their life, or someone is running for reelection and attempting to paint a picture of a humanitarian. I'd be interested to hear if any of those theories have any foundation in reality. Does anyone have any ideas?

it's a pain in the ass to clean up dead people. and anyways, some of those dead people were probably pretty decent, and a bit of help might of saved them. worth a try, anyways.

So, basically, you just told people to go jump in front of the light rail line instead of off the bridge ...

Sigh. What a waste.

Hey! Let's have a vote! How about five?

CHeaper, better: just put a dispenser with overdoses of pills at each end.

so lemme get this straight - you're opposed to saving the lives of deeply trouble/depressed people - one would argue, THEY are the ones that need our compassion the most - for a view?

you are a bad, bad person.

this is stupid. let them suicide allright. can't we even choose how and when we die????

Jesus people, have you ever considered, you know, doing a basic Google search on the topic to see what the science says:
http://www.aurorabridgefence.com/documents/Barrier_effectiveness_web.pdf

There's the doc that explains exactly why such a barrier is proposed and the studies that clearly show that suicide prevention barriers on bridges effectively reduces the number of suicides. Some suicides are determined and will find a way to go through with it. Most aren't, though, and if a suicide attempt is thwarted they will often not try again.

From the link above:

Mental health experts and suicidologists cite impulsivity associated with
jumping from bridges as one of the primary factors that contributes to
the effectiveness of physical barriers.
– Impulsivity is one of the factors associated with suicidal behavior
(Mann JJ 2003) and reductions in both method-specific and possibly
overall suicide rates. (Kreitman 1976; Gunnell and Frankell 1994)
– Any form of obstruction at a high-risk site not only gives the individual
time to reconsider but, by delaying the suicidal act, may also increase
the chances of intervention. (Lindqvist, Johnsson, Eriksson et al. 2004)
– The available evidence thus far suggests that the most promising
interventions are physician and gatekeeper education, and restriction
of access to lethal means of suicide. (Mann, Apter, Bertolote, Beautrais
et al., 2005).

@93: This link is from the Aurora Bridge Fence project web site. Obviously it's going to cite studies that support building the fence.

These studies also support physician and gatekeeper intervention. Why aren't we spending our money on mental health?

Dawgson, if this were a discussion about spending more on mental health, you'd be asking why we don't spend it on a bridge fence. Or you be saying we should be spending it on orthodontia for orphan puppies.

You approach the topic from a position of total ignorance then start grasping for any reason you can find to undermine it. It's a classic Republican tactic to kill a proposal, but it only works if you're good at it. Which you are not.

I have a friend who's made a couple pseudo-joking references to suicide recently. I verbally rebutted her at the time but owing to this slog just wrote her a well-thought out e-mail on why she shouldn't and gave her the suicide hotline #(800-SUICIDE, fyi) and told her to call 'em. I'd like to doubt that she'd have gone through with it anyway, but know by sending the e-mail that I've further lessened that chance. Thanks all---

@94 You could try to find some actual science to back up an opposing viewpoint, or question the validity of the sources without actually doing any legwork to bring some light to the conversation. You chose the easy critic way, offering nothing.

@13

Are you saying the terminally ill people who decide to end their suffering are mentally ill? I know that is a corner case, but I'm just putting it out there that a person's choice to end their life isn't in and of itself a display of mental illness.

@95: Elenchos: Honestly, I don't want the bridge. I think it would be an eye sore. I think it would prevent at most 10 deaths a year. I think it would inevitably be more expensive than initially scoped. I think the money could be spent in hundreds of better places.

So, yes, I think it's a bad idea. I would rather see our money go towards helping people who want to be alive and not safety-proofing the world against people who don't want to be here.

But a practical opinion isn't a good way to win the hearts and minds of Slog readers, so I went with other rhetorical strategies.

You caught me. Touche.

@97: I've been researching but all the articles I've found are locked down behind for-fee walls. Some provide access to abstracts but other don't.

If I'm able to find anything I will post it. Most studies I've found are pretty inconclusive.

okay. as someone who has (1) witnessed a suicide [by gun] (2) been depressed enough to contemplate suicide [and saved by item no. 1 demonstrating the reality of it] and (3) someone who has walked across the bridge numerous times for pleasure and to commute to work...sure it's a nice view. nice views are important to the mental health of a community, for sure. i'm still not over what they did to the fremont waterfront, but that's another rant.

there are sometimes choices that have to be made to balance one social benefit against another - in this case, we have an appeal to architectural/environmental aesthetics, versus an appeal to public health and safety. both are important, and it is a shame that paucity of public funds drives a city to make either/or choices.

all that having been said - there is nothing more beautiful to me within the limits of a modern american city than a concrete demonstration that at least a few people out there still give one tiny shit about someone other than themselves.

that bridge ATTRACTS suicidal people from all over america, just as the golden gate does. i'm ok with a fence that channels the suicides over the water & prevents them from landing on houses & cars. the net idea is actually pretty good, too.

and at least raise the railing height to 48". its scary as fuck when you ride a bike across that bridge.

@94 - Anecdotal evidence to the study in 93 here: I tried to commit suicide, I failed, and I didn't try it again. I've never been to counseling for it (or any other mental health issue) and I now lead a productive life with a loving wife. Yes, suicide prevention devices can permanently save lives.

The real problem, which I haven't seen brought up in this comments section (forgive me, I skimmed a bit) is the effect on the people down below. Many people who live and work in the neighborhood around there get traumatized by all the dropping bodies. The P-I had a story about the kayaker who tried to help someone who went in the water and the jumper was so scared he grabbed onto the kayak and nearly drowned them both. It's a real public health problem, and not just for those who choose to jump.

Here's the link:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/349490_bridge31.html

Well, I hope I'm not driving down Dearborn when folks start making the leap off of the Rizal Bridge, because that's where more than a few of these unfortunate souls will wind up.

@39:

Technically, it's a live body, not a dead body. Until impact, of course.

Spending tax dollars and destroying views in order to address the symptom, rather than the problem, is stoopit. Let's make it easy for people to get mental health care. Let's do outreach and prevention. Let's change our culture so that depression doesn't carry such stigma. Let's put kids through Life Skills classes that teach them how to cope with life, rather than teaching them to use a sewing machine or bake cookies. Let's do ALL KINDS of things do demonstrate compassion ways that might actually help.

I wonder if we OVER sensitive to mental illness. I have my fare share of it ... I've gone through my shit, they give me drugs so I can cope and I can function. Suicide? ... I see it if FNARFs way, and I see it the ending of terminal illness way, I also see it well if people really want to do it, let them.

My shrink told me that suicide is a very ugly thing, that the only victem is never just yourself and you take a lot of people down with you. Regardless of the amount of pain involved. Commiting suicide flies in the face of every natural instinct to maintain survival, it's the fact that the pain is SO great they are willing to counter or attempt to counter a natural reflex to kill themselves.

that said, most suicide victims WANT TO GET CAUGHT. They want to be saved, they set up these elaborate traps so that they will be found and SAVED at the last minute.

So in a way, I guess everyone is right. fnarf, how about this, and is this fair? Suicide is supposedly an escape from pain. Pain can come from both outside and in ... and some people don't have the means to address or handle the pain to go on with life.

Opinion: I agree with Dan.
Anecdote: My brother committed suicide by jumping off a cliff.

82: Why don't I kill myself? Because I'm perfectly happy. Just because determinism depresses you doesn't mean that it depresses everyone else. Reality has nothing to do with philosophy- either individuals are rational individuals with free will or they're not. It doesn't matter what you believe about the nature of reality- there's science and then there isn't. The fact neoclassical economists believe, without evidence, that people are inherently rational makes what they're doing pseudoscience.

I believe that people have some free will; it's something I like to believe in. But denying deterministic aspects like physiology, the environment, upbringing, psychiatric disorders, is akin to denying evolution. Having a worldview is one thing; not caring about or for depressed people because they purportedly have free will is social negligence and bad science.

People who advocate basing social policy on assumptions of radical individualism and free will live in a fantasy world.

My shrink told me that suicide is a very ugly thing, that the only victem is never just yourself and you take a lot of people down with you.

Doesn't hold an ounce of water in some cases. We knew 6 weeks ahead of time that the chosen course would end in death, and his family and I all stood behind him...like it or not. And he did die, and it wasn't so much a peaceful death as a letting go of the pain he lived in daily. By his choice. On his terms.

Was it selfish of him? Maybe. But no more selfish than our wishes that he fight at any cost to live and stay with us.

It wasn't in the least ugly either.

Tell me...in this case, who's wrong?

@111: So essentially, none of us are responsible for any of our choices? I suppose I could see how that could be liberating.

Ergo, if I choose not to support building this fence, it's a combination of my life experiences and biochemistry making this decision and not "me" or my "free will." Thus neither you nor Fnraf has any right to judge me or anyone else.

Perfect.

There is absolutely no scientific data showing that suicide bridges decrease the rate of suicides as a whole, only that they decrease suicide at that specific location.