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And people wonder why the conservatives say liberals hate America....gee wonder why they think that?

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | April 8, 2008 11:39 AM

I rolled my eyes when it happened.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 8, 2008 11:39 AM

I was one of the people who loudly booed Tim Nuse who spoke on behalf of the Obama campaign for making his lame comments about Hillary being divisive.

At the 34th no one booed the Pledge but a lot of people stayed silent for the 'under god' line. I know I did because I don't believe in a theocracy.

I also booed the lady who told everyone we should complain about parking meters going in around the Alaska Junction.

I am sure the folks at KVI would take issue with that too because in their minds it is our God Given Rights as ‘Merican’s to drive giant cars and park them for free within a ½ block of our destination. I don’t quite understand how they reconcile the huge taxpayer cost of creating all of that ‘free parking’ but…um, yeah, whatever…

Posted by 34th District Represents | April 8, 2008 11:43 AM

Well, seeing as it's apparently bat-shit left-wing crazies day on Slog, you should have no difficulty finding idiots who would boo the Pledge.

Posted by Elvis | April 8, 2008 11:44 AM

People like that, who boo the pledge of allegiance, make all leftists look stupid. Why help KVI find some dumb ones they can use as examples of "typical liberals" on their station?

Posted by PJ | April 8, 2008 11:46 AM

Republicans feigning surprise at 43rd Dist Dems (prob. the most liberal district in the state) booing the pledge is a bit like Democrats being surprised if some GOP district in Wenatchee booed illegal immigrants. In other words, not surprising at all.

Posted by D Huygens | April 8, 2008 11:48 AM

As a member of the Fighting 37th, I take offense at you labeling the 43rd Dist the most liberal in the state. That "most liberal" title clearly belongs to us here in the 37th District. =)

Posted by Block Party | April 8, 2008 11:54 AM

I didn't go but I would have booed if I could have kept a straight face. The pledge of allegiance? To some guy's hat? Really?

Posted by poppy | April 8, 2008 11:55 AM

To: McCain Campaign/ GOP 527's
Fm: KVI / Seattle conservatives
Re: Project "Dupe a Lefty"

Our Dupe a Lefty project is on course. In fact, the local left wing press is even helping us find people who will go ont he radio and say they support Obama and boo the pledge of allegiance.

Our suggestion that the 43d LD caucus in Seattle would be the place to look was leftist dupes is proving entirely correct.

By this afternoon we expect to have several prospective lefty dupes on the radio who will gladly provide us with tapes saying they support Obama and they boo the pledge of allegiance. As discussed, we are keepign quiet about the other questions they will be lured into answering such as "do you agree with 'God damn America' sentiments expressed by Rev. Wright," etc.

We fully expect Project Dupe a Lefty will provide you with the live quotes for the TV and radio ads you are working on for this Fall. Best wishes,

Posted by Seattle Conservatives | April 8, 2008 11:57 AM

Loyalty oaths are offensive. Why do we need one? Why did we all of a sudden want a national loyalty oath in the McCarthy era?

Not that I condone booing anything. I don't boo.

And this does not make the left look stupid. It makes the right look petty and paranoid. And I'd bet money most of these pundits getting mileage out of it are not veterans. Typical chickenhawk histrionics.

Posted by elenchos | April 8, 2008 11:58 AM

I wouldn't have booed the pledge (probably would have booed the booers) but then I couldn't get into the room for the 43rd. There was this woman at the door saying the room was full and to keep the doors free. When she wasn't looking I snuck in and sat in the aisle. Then I get this e-mail today asking me for money. The 43rd dems need to get organized. And, what was up with Hillary asking people for jokes?

Posted by nom de guerre | April 8, 2008 12:00 PM

No one booed in the 36th, for what it's worth. I even accidentally found myself saying the dreaded "under god" part. Stupid Catholic school education . . .

Posted by Levislade | April 8, 2008 12:02 PM

We had some East German exchange students when I was in high school, shortly after the wall fell. One morning a bunch of us were asking them questions about what it was like to live under such an oppressive regime. One of them eyeballed the mini-flag we used for the pledge every morning and said with a grin, "Well, they didn't make us pray to the flag." Snap.

Posted by skweetis | April 8, 2008 12:12 PM

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

According to Wikipedia, here is the History about the addition of the words "under God"

"The Knights of Columbus in New York City felt that the pledge was incomplete without any reference to a deity. Appealing to the authority of Abraham Lincoln, the Knights felt that the words "under God" which were from Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address were most appropriate to add to the Pledge. In New York City on April 22, 1951, the Board of Directors of the Knights of Columbus adopted a resolution to amend their recitation of Pledge of Allegiance at the opening of each of the meetings of the 800 Fourth Degree Assemblies of the Knights of Columbus by addition of the words "under God" after the words "one nation." In the following two years, the idea spread throughout Knights of Columbus organizations nationwide. On August 21, 1952, the Supreme Council of the Knights of Columbus at its annual meeting adopted a resolution urging that the change be made universal and copies of this resolution were sent to the President, the Vice President (as Presiding Officer of the Senate) and the Speaker of the House of Representatives. The National Fraternal Congress meeting in Boston on September 24, 1952, adopted a similar resolution upon the recommendation of its President, Supreme Knight Luke E. Hart. Several State Fraternal Congresses acted likewise almost immediately thereafter. This campaign led to several official attempts to prompt Congress to adopt the Knights of Columbus’ policy for the entire nation. These attempts failed.

Though the Knights of Columbus tried, they were unsuccessful in their attempts to persuade the United States government to amend the pledge. Bills were introduced as early as 1953, when Representative Louis C. Rabaut of Michigan sponsored a resolution at the suggestion of a correspondent. It was a Presbyterian minister who made the difference in 1954 by preaching a sermon about Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. The minister was George MacPherson Docherty, a native of Scotland who was called to succeed Peter Marshall as pastor of the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church near the White House, where, in 1863, the same year as the address, Lincoln attended and even rented a pew. After Lincoln’s death, the pew that he rented became something of a national monument. It became customary for later United States presidents to attend services at the church and sit in the Lincoln pew on the Sunday closest to Lincoln’s birthday (February 12) each year."

Posted by With liberty and justice for all | April 8, 2008 12:15 PM

I was on stage at the time, and we didn't boo.

But, in addition to the school locking down the stage floods and lights (with padlocks), the flag was in the gym and nobody found it until later - the school had no flags in the stage area that we could find, and doing a Pledge of Allegiance without a flag just seemed:

a. silly
b. a waste of time
c. see b.
d. see b.
e. moronic given b.

Tell KVI to go enlist, the combat-avoiding REMFs. We had tons of Obama candidates who were actively or past serving Marines, Army, and Air Force. We do the fighting - the neocon liars at KVI do the swerving.

My flag is on my uniform, comrade KVI Red Bushies!

Posted by Will in Seattle | April 8, 2008 12:22 PM

I was over in the gym all day, so I didn't see the incident. Nor did I hear a single word about it until I read the Slog that evening.

Had I been there, I think I might have snarked that at least rejecting saying the Pledge took up more than the 15 seconds that the rote mumbling would have occupied. Or was the suggestion to say it over and over and over again to fill up the many minutes of waiting time?

Posted by N in Seattle | April 8, 2008 12:23 PM

When on Staurday did this happen? I was in the gym from 9-noon and do not remember this at all. Did this happen in the afternoon?

Posted by Chris | April 8, 2008 12:27 PM

I'll pretend to be so I can get on the air and then say "I was actually saying Booooo-urns."

Posted by tsm | April 8, 2008 12:43 PM

Our nation's flag pledge before the inclusion of under god....
1892 “I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.”
1892 to 1923
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
1923 to 1954
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
1954 to Present
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation, under God indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."

Posted by Before I was Under God | April 8, 2008 12:47 PM

I was there as a delegate. We didn't have an effing flag! Isn't that the point of the pledge of allegiance? I didn't boo, but I was against it without a flag.

That Caucus was ridiculous. The Seattle Crazies were out in FULL Force.

That's my story and i'm sticking to it.

Posted by Maureen | April 8, 2008 12:49 PM

Thank God, Allah, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster, et. al., that we have the time and energy to argue about this non-issue (or at least aid-and-abet continuing the meme) while the McCainanites are girding for battle in the fall, and, with NOTHING to run ON, the G.O.P. will be happy to line up other gut-level/brainless issues like this to confound the voting masses instead of their own miserable record on corruption, war, financial incompetence, etc.

Posted by Andy Niable | April 8, 2008 12:50 PM

eh, this segment is going to be used to trash obama. the point for a conservative is that he is "anti-american-left". it doesn't matter how well you articulate your belief, it sends a message to the listener. now, that listener probably wouldn't vote for obama anyway...

Posted by infrequent | April 8, 2008 1:06 PM

I was at the 63rd LD Caucus. Most people appeared to stand and do the pledge, though I sat it out. I WISH they'd booed!!! Go fightin' 43rd!

Posted by Queen Vidor | April 8, 2008 1:12 PM

if i'd gone instead of bailing on my 3rd alternate delegate status, i'd have kept my mouth shut while others said it.

and then i'd have gotten exasperated with my fellow 43rds. we are divorced from reality in our little lefty bubble.

Posted by max solomon | April 8, 2008 1:21 PM

elenchos, the problem is you're saying what it looks like according to you (paranoid and petty), and you're criticizing the right wingers for what it looks like to them (disloyal to teh country and institutions we cherish). different sides of the same coin.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 8, 2008 1:22 PM

Yeah, Bellevue, I see what you mean. The Earth: flat or round? Opinions differ. Two sides of the same coin.

Posted by elenchos | April 8, 2008 1:26 PM

Like, I said, tell KVI to do a Recruiting Day for their listeners to serve two full tours in Iraq.

See how many show up.

My bet is none will sign recruiting papers, they're that yellow.

Posted by Will in Seattle | April 8, 2008 1:27 PM

elenchos -- you might be the funniest commenter here. sometimes, however, your use of humor dismisses a valid point (often via straw man).

in this case, you retort has a clearly right and a clearly wrong view. whereas bellevue's whole point was that there is truth on both sides in this case.

of course, you don't need me to point this out. and i'm almost afraid of what your reply might be...

Posted by infrequent | April 8, 2008 1:42 PM

OK. Fine. What possible purpose is served by bullying people into saying a loyalty oath?

And why is it that decorated veterans such as myself don't give two shits about saying a pledge to a flag, or folding a flag in a magic triangle, but chickenhawks will blather on for hour after hour about how these prissy little sweet nothings count as "loyalty"?

See, I believe that actual service is the real deal, like saying the earth is round. Pretending that some hollow gesture is patriotism is the same as saying the earth is flat and wanting your opinion to be taken seriously.

Posted by elenchos | April 8, 2008 1:52 PM

politics is perception elenchos, and the perception that this is petty and stupid crowing by right wing radio won't outweigh the perception of people in the 43rd are disloyal, anti-american loons.

just being correct doesnt mean you will win elenchos.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 8, 2008 2:00 PM

Or maybe having the courage to stand up to bullies gets you elected President. That's why Obama stopped wearing that stupid pin.

Posted by elenchos | April 8, 2008 2:03 PM

using your logic that standing up to bullies wins, we should have said the pledge because people were trying to bully us into not saying it by booing us.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 8, 2008 2:05 PM

elenchos - if you were on kvi, and you said what you just said above, it would have impact. but for some reason i don't think that's what is going to happen... and what what bellevue suspects will.

Posted by infrequent | April 8, 2008 2:05 PM

Like I said, I don't boo. Nothing in my logic says you must to the opposite of what bullies want. But you should stand up to them when what they are bullying you into has no value.

I also don't call in on the radio. I hate radio call in shows. I did call in once to Savage Live, many years ago. It was weird and uncomfortable.

Posted by elenchos | April 8, 2008 2:12 PM

the pledge might have value to some people. they were bullied into not saying the pledge. ergo, they should have stood up to people who bullied and prevented them from doing something they valued.

you're such a fucking pussy elenchos. you might have the balls to stay stuff online but you wont actually put any of that beyond here. you dont call into radio? you don't speak up in public? you're the epitome of a liberal vagina; you talk real tough and mean only around people who mostly agree with you.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 8, 2008 2:19 PM

further, the problem with a lot of liberal causes and people behind them isn't too many chefs in the kitchen. it's too many assholes at home that watch Create and look at the Williams Sonoma catalog and then complain that certain restaurants suck and that they should change the way they do things.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 8, 2008 2:21 PM

I do speak up in public. I just don't call in on the radio. Those programs don't exist to change anyone's mind. They're there to make money.

You know Bellevue, the reason you constantly get made a fool of on the Slog is that you misread nearly everything anybody else says. And you get caught doing it every time. And when people try to tell you you been schooled, you don't listen, and you won't learn.

Posted by elenchos | April 8, 2008 2:27 PM

People try to tell me that i lost an argument because they just want me to shut up and stop working towards some fundamental truth. they arent doing it for MY benefit, they are doing it for theirs.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 8, 2008 2:34 PM

Agent Elenchos to Control. Target subject Bellevue Ave has detected our vast conspiracy to stop him from finding the Fundamental Truth. Mr. Ave. must be stopped at all costs. Recommend switching to backup plan Delta Two Five. This message will self destruct...

Posted by elenchos | April 8, 2008 2:38 PM

and seriously, while you may not think there is value in a loyalty oath other people might. and i'm sorry the central planning commission on cultural and political values didnt pick you to make the decisions but was it really a good idea to boo the pledge and people that wanted to do it? from an inside and outsider perspective?

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 8, 2008 2:40 PM

not "the" but "an" underlying fundamental truth.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | April 8, 2008 2:42 PM

I didn't hear booing so much as very loud groaning when the suggestion was made that we do the pledge (and yes, that was me, groaning loudly).

Then Hillary put it up for a vote. There were many ayes, but they were totally dwarfed by the nos (again, count me among the nos).

And, guess what, I don't particularly care if a couple of right-wing talkers decide to make a big deal out of it. I'm not about to recite silly little oaths just to avoid giving them fodder for their shows. Especially since their audience already believes we hate America anyway.

Posted by gnossos | April 8, 2008 3:40 PM

Exactly, gnossos. We had no flag at the time (it was only a few hours later we found one in the gym), and saying the Pledge of Allegiance to a stars and stripes hat was a really really bad idea - and a waste of time.

Now, a better question might be ... why don't those "patriotic" KVIers SERVE instead of SWERVE? I did my time, as did quite a few of the Obama (and I presume, Clinton) delegates.

Fake patriotism is worth zilch.

Posted by Will in Seattle | April 8, 2008 4:00 PM
Or maybe having the courage to stand up to bullies gets you elected President. That's why Obama stopped wearing that stupid pin.

Erm ... he's not elected yet.

Anyways, they're just looking for an anti-American straw man to knock down on the air here for entertainment. If I had been a delegate, I'd volunteer for them and then totally deny booing or holding any controversial opinions whatsoever when they put me on air, taking all the fun out of it for them.

Posted by tsm | April 8, 2008 5:11 PM

The 30th started off the caucus *with* the pledge of allegiance.

As I do these days, I kept my mouth closed for the "under god" part.

(Probably didn't help my delegate election chances, assuming anyone noticed.)

Posted by K | April 8, 2008 6:07 PM


Right. Maybe it gets him elected. Or maybe conventional thinking, like going along with the crowd that thought the war was a good idea at the time, is what gets you elected.

I think this is representative of a much larger issue than just a lapel pin or the pledge of allegiance. It's about using cheap pressure and guilt by association and jingoism to drive horrible policy. All in the name of getting along, not offending, and whatever you do, never looking unpatriotic in the eyes of Neanderthals.

Will we be cowed? Or will we stand up?

Posted by elenchos | April 8, 2008 7:00 PM

Yeah - but what about Our Father whose art's in heaven - Hollow Ed - be His name?

It's a piece of cloth we anthropomorphize requesting some sort of loyal intercession through which process everything will be made all right under God. Say the words - no one's listening anyway. How easily we are embarrassed in public thinking someone's watching as we desire to act incorrectly, but rarely have the éclat to pull it off.

Small rant completed - back to regular KANT programming.

Posted by END DUST OR PLEDGE? | April 8, 2008 10:49 PM

I was there, it was definitely a groan not a boo.

And yes pledging to a Hat because we had no flag, yeah thanks for playing, but bye bye.

Posted by DJ Eternal Darkness | April 9, 2008 3:35 AM

we watched crown. playing he got crown. living with box sour, and eat a scientist. exploring to dine forts

Posted by englandmailt | April 9, 2008 6:57 AM

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