Wow, so that could be used to get racists not to vote for a black President?

Um, news flash, they won't be voting for him anyway.

I mean, are you not at home, or what?

Why does this even need an explanation?

I'm not as crazy about Obama as much of slog is, but I've got to admit, he's really getting a ridiculous reaction to what amounts to straight talk about race in America. (better than anything you'd get out of McCain, fer sure)

'there’s a reaction that’s been bred into our experiences that don’t go away, and that sometimes come out in the wrong way, and that’s just the nature of race in our society.'

It sounds sort of like a discussion in a freshman American Studies class, but if our country's really not even ready to deal with race on that level...

That's OK - what else would you expect from a typical black person?

His Grandma's only 86?

@4 - Check that. Obama is a typical half-white person.

He'd better quit saying truthful things.

@1, no I think the fear is more that middle class white centrist voters could be swayed into thinking that Obama was dismissive of them by calling the "typical white person" a little bit racist.

Personally, I do not think Obama's remarks were a big deal, but then again, I'm not white, and I have no patience for white people's reverse racism victimhood. But I can very easily see the ugly campaign video the Repubs would be able to come up with for this one....

Wait until the Clinton campaign circulates THIS photo of his grandmother:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/04_03/golliwogMENSYN0305_468x580.jpg

It was an unfortunate turn of phrase. If Hillary had used the phrase "typical black person" in any context, you Obama fans would want her head on a platter. Please have the decency to admit it.

Obama bringing up his grandmother was one of the best parts of the speech in my opinion, I too have relatives who are not racists but have said things that have made me bristle. What I took out of it was that Obama was telling middle-class white voters he is not one to jump to "racist" based on remarks coming out of another generational context (like Geraldine Ferraro's).

Sounds like my grandmother.

Now, ask McCain a question about race.

Yes, Sven, I think if Obama's supporters or anybody else were still itching to make hay over every single slip of the tongue instead of talk about things that matter, they would have completely missed the point he is trying to make.

ugh... that's it! i'm officially over the back and forth obama / hillary bickering. all the counterfactuals and what-ifs and musings of geriatric, quite-possibly-senile campaign finance chairs -- done!

frank discussions about race? gender? homos? whatever, just tell me who to vote for in november who is not mccain or nader.

Ugh is right. I can only see this "dialogue on race" getting uglier and uglier as we get closer to November. I mean, we all knew it was coming but that doesn't make it any less stomach churning.

Ferraro just ate that shit for lunch!

Maybe if "typical black people" stopped spending so much time killing each other outside of hip-hop clubs, Southcenter mall, etc. the "typical white people" wouldn't cross the street to avoid them.

That's not racist though. Right?

@12 - Exactly. My grandmother was a very nice lady who did not consider herself a racist. She also called brazil nuts "n***** toes" without batting an eye.

Obama has already made a generalization about black folks. What the hell?

Hillary does it all the time, the white working class don't like x,y, or z. Sheesh, you mean we can't categorize anymore.

Throwing around the term "racist" has jumped the shark.

Sven, you're right. It was a dumb thing for Obama to say. But given that it was white people who enslaved black people, it was white people who lynched black people, it was white people who kept black people from being allowed to vote, etc., in my opinion, a black politician who says something like this gets more slack from me than white politician who says something similar. You can't just take the same words, flip them around, and say that they are equally bad without considering the whole context of racial power-dynamics that led up to those statements.

Just remember - Obama fans jumped over Hillary's "as far as I know" phrase and called her all kinds of names over it.

That was 100 times more benign that "a typical white person" which frankly shows that Obama at some level still sees individuals as collective groups with stereotypical attitudes. Which is a dangerous quality to have.

Whichever advisor suggested to Obama to go down this road should be fired. Sure, racist voters wouldn't vote for him anyway, but middle of the road people will be turned off to the extent this is spun into "poor me, a black man can't catch a break with the Man holding him down" gripe, which it will. This is totally sidetracking Obama from being able to talk about issues that the mainstream undecided voters are concerned about this election.

And McCain calls Purim the "Jewish Halloween", but that's okay, it's only a "gaffe".

elenchos- are you kidding me? Clinton supporters are just about making points, but *Obama* supporters are all about talking about "things that matter?" Have you been huffing paint? I *know* that you know that both campaigns are equal parts scoring points and talking about "things that matter." AS THEY HAVE TO BE TO WIN ELECTIONS. Your attempts at playing the wounded idealist are unconvincing.

Tit for fucking tat. The fact is typical white people are a little bit racist.

Obama railed for speaking the truth yet again, just like his former pastor.

Are white people so afraid that once the big bad racist black man gets in the White House, he's going to paint it black and call up all of homies and order mass lynching of white people?

I'm so tired of this the black man is a racist diatribe.

The reserve racism and an “affirmative action” presidential election claims are total BS.

The majority of America is still stupid, evidenced by the last 8 years.

Looks like The Straight-Talk Express has a new driver. (Get to the back of the Bus, Senator John "Gooks" McCain.)

arduous @8: one of the reasons obama's speech went over so well is because he didn't say and I have no patience for white people's reverse racism victimhood...

Absolutely infrequent, he's a politician so he has to mollify people. Arguably someone has to do it, but in the real world reverse racism victimhood is nauseating.

Yeah, half-white Obama is a stereotyper who sees people as a collective. It's bullshit issue. What if he had said "she's not atypical." His whole point was that there's widespread issues about race & he didn't mean for his grandmother to represent some atypical racist but rather the "common man".

Hey, I guess even thinking there's something like the "common man" must make you see "individuals as collective groups with stereotypical attitudes."

Maybe Hils thought up this attack during one of the NAFTA meetings she chaired, back when she "wasn't supporting NAFTA" ...

Yeah, blame Hillary for something stupid that Obama said. That'll make it go away.

do we get to pick and choose what obama meant and what he just had to say to mollify people? that's a pretty dangerous game, as someone could say he said he disagreed with his pastor to mollify people.

yes, claims of reverse-racism are often nauseating. but that doesn't mean the feelings behind the claims aren't real. and often there is a belief present that needs to be addressed, of which the actual claim is but a small part.

unfortunately, to have no patience for such a person -- or to vomit in front of them as a response -- does not deal with what is validity is there.

if you cannot see any validity whatsoever, then you are not understanding part of the equation.

LOL@26

Has McCain said GOOKS somewhere along the way???????

@32:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/hongop.shtml

@33 holy ish! thanks

...On his campaign bus recently [2000], Sen. John McCain told reporters, "I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live." Although McCain said he was referring only to his prison guards, there are many reasons why his use of the word "gook" is offensive and alarming."

Having got his foot in the muck of race relations due to his pastor, Obama continues to sink. With this latest one, he's about up to his knees. News flash to Barack: "Typical voters" don't want to hear about "typical white people". They don't want to hear about race at all. Do yourself a favor and stop talking about race.

I hate this election season. And I strongly dislike Hillary for clinging to this fight she can't win and flinging poo around and dragging everyone down. But at least she's doing it with a fake smile and a mullet. Jesus Christ!

Wow, this whole thing is just KILLING Obama. Hillary hasn't even had to open her mouth for a week now. I knew race would come up sooner or later, but every time Obama says something, he digs the hole deeper.

@27 wha? Of course Obama didn't say that. He's a politician running for president of a majority-white country. He has to win white people's votes. I am not a politician running for president. I am a mere poster on Slog. I can say how I feel. And that's how I feel.

Mollify is a bit loaded, though I knew that at the time. I'm not talking about being disingenuous. I'm talking about being a true "uniter not a divider." Talking to people who disagree with you & who you disagree with to try to see their point of view and maybe get them to see your point of view. Someone has to do it, & it's quite arguably a good thing to do. So yeah I agree with you infrequent. I just don't think there's any real reason to have the same expectations of SLOG posters.

I for example see red when I hear people bitching about reverse racism. I'm can't defend that as a great thing, but then again it's not tops on my list of things to work on either.

You know things are looking bad for a Presidential candidate when his supporters start whining "but what he says is truuuuuuuueee!"

If you think you're going to win the white house by forcing white people to acknowledge the racial failings of this country, YOU'RE FUCKING HIGH.

Meanwhile, your candidate is cratering.

@39 Why?

Stop now Mr.Obama... the rope is reeling out fast!

@40, yeah you're right, forget about what's true or not, let's get back to the horse race. I don't think that this is good for Obama. It's called damage control & I think he can recover. Obviously we have to hope that when the Dems can get their act together we'll be able to put some beat down on McCain. Sad to see things go negative but there it is, no one's perfect.

@39 why what?

sven, i understand you want hillary to be the nominee. we get it.

and while the right-wing shitstorm happening right now was arguably to be expected, it is still nonetheless appalling, and anyone who values an honest dialog about race relations in this country should be at least a teeeensy bit creeped out by it, as opposed to, say, gloating about the fact that this helps your candidate.

now if you don't mind, i'm going to stick some marshmallows in my ears. somebody give me a hand signal when november rolls around.

brandon-

This election isn't about having an "honest dialog about race relations". It's about stopping a Republican dismantling of the Constitution.

An "honest dialog about race relations" shouldn't involve stupid stereotypical groupings based on race by the self-appointed race-savior.

@32 - He's been known to scream it at the top of his lungs when being awakened from a dead sleep by a 3AM phone call.

ps-

Brandon, I take exception to the idea that I am "gloating." I have said for six months that the argument that Obama would be a less divisive general election candidate was naive, and that Republicans would pore it on Obama just as much as they would on Clinton.

I was routinely dismissed as a victim/instigator of "old political thinking." Things would be different with Obama. I'm not happy that this race has become bogged down with racial issues, but it's important to know because despite what you may hear around here WE STILL HAVEN'T PICKED A NOMINEE and my original argument- that all the dirt that exists on Clinton was aired a decade or more ago- is more valid than EVER.

I feel urgency, not gloating.

@46 please. "self-appointed race-savior." when exactly did he say that?

an honest dialog has to begin with may occasionally be a stereotype and what might be true. otherwise, nothing will ever be said. can you imagine?

Q: "how do whites feel about this issue?"

A: "what do mean? you think whites all feel the same way? like we get together and decide how to feel? that no one is allowed to deviate?"

many white feel that blacks are more prone to violence then whites. do you disagree with that? don't many white people feel that way?

many whites also are upset that they cannot say, "typical black person" without being perceived as racist, but blacks can say "typical white person" with impunity. but it's not true. as we've just seen, obama got called on it even though it's not a significant statement. and both white and blacks joke about "typical" traits all the time: for instance, the daily show segment two nights ago about kenny g jazz and loud car stereos.

(if this is the blood-boiling type of comment, then i get the idea!)

I guess we should face it. Hillary's managed to create an atmosphere among her supporters where a reported 25% (!!) won't vote for Barack Obama. That's an amazing number. They delight in the misfortune of others. That says a lot.

And in response to Barack's speech the other day Hillary said "it was a good speech." That's it. She hasn't stood up to say "what a minister said in church isn't an important issue. We have real issues facing this country." I didn't expect her to do that. After all, she's not about elevating discourse and being positive. That's not her style. She's divisive and relishes that. It's clear as day. And that's one reason I find her so awful. She's shopping this story around to the super delegates (or whatever euphemism she's created for them) to show how he's damaged goods--all the while she's doing almost universally worse in polls.

I'm not gleeful about Hillary's shortcomings, losses or missteps. But many of Hillary's supporters DO become gleeful about the shortcomings, losses, or missteps of the other Democratic candidate. Interesting.

Rhett's correct. I strongly dislike Hillary Clinton. Strongly. And the thought of *another* Clinton presidency makes my stomach turn--definitely not as much as a McCain presidency, but still.

Cheers,
MM (stb BoM)

Sven, there was a part of Obama's speech where he did directly admonish his own supporters for making too much over Ferraro's comments. I think if his flacks had written that speech it would have been different, but he really does think everybody should stick to the issues and stop trying to drag each other down. He doesn't appreciate what some of his "friends" are doing for him.

Haven't we picked a delegate though? A decision by the supers will not stand, whatever Obama does or does not do. It'll devastate the party.

It's a bad scene right now, I'll grant you that. Whoever the nominee is, 50% of the party is going to feel alienated. And oh, by the way, don't assume that the supers will settle this either - a 50/50 split among them, which could very well happen, won't change a thing.

why do we keep saying "rascist" when we mean BIGOTED or PREDJUDICED? they're NOT the same thing.

jesus fucking christ i'm tired of the hyperbolic hyperventilation.

i'm sure you don't see yourself as gloating, sven. but when you say that people are "whining because what he says is truuuuuuuuuuue!", surely you can understand how someone might see it that way? if someone agrees with what he said and they acknowledge it, they're whining? that's pretty harsh.

i've never claimed obama was a saviour. he was put in a very difficult position and responded by speaking from the heart, guided by his principles rather than focus groups. and if a politician can't speak honestly and directly about issues that affect us all, well, i don't even know what to say about that. i guess in 2008, i expect a little more from a democrat politician than others amongst us. call me an idealist. call me HIGH. that's how i feel. is that whining?

you know, these marshmallows in my ears are actually quite cozy. y'all should try it.

@43 & @ 38

"reverse-racism" is racism. the word 'reverse' is stupid. why does hearing people complain about the racism they encounter bother you so, yo?

oh right, since white is a giant race, there can be no irrational prejudices against them. whites feelings of prejudice are underdeveloped, because they haven't been there and don't get to experience it often.

walking down the street and having someone yell "I HATE WHITE PEOPLE!" is cool since i am a "white people", and actually respectable since i've had it coming....for thousands of years!

pffffffffffffffT

wake up and smell the hate. you're a racist and hopefully someday you can put it near the top of your list.

get to know someone first, THEN HATE THEM. it's what i do.

(seeing red?)

The problem isn't that Obama is speaking honestly, it's that he's honestly speaking nonsense. All the honesty in the world isn't going to make what he says any less stupid bullshit.

@53,

You're right. A 50-50 split among Supers hands the nomination to Obama.

Unfortunately, many of the complainers in this thread demonstrate how this off-hand comment can hurt Obama. "He called all of us racists. Waaa!"

You are racists, and so am I.

brandon-

In the spirit of your very civil post, I will reiterate that (a) if Obama is the nominee I will enthusiastically support him, and (b) any Clinton supporters who says they won't support Obama if he gets the nomination are douchebags.

Cheers.

@58, okaaaay let's remember that the object of the game is to win the White House from the elephants. Maybe you subscribe to the Avenue Q line, "everyone's a little bit racist," but I don't think that theory is going to help us out much. People don't like being told they're racist. Even if it is possibly true. I don't really subscribe to the everyone is racist theory but whatever.

we're in the same boat now, sven. the past few days have reminded me that what matters more than anything in november is humiliating the GOP. if that means voting hillary, then by golly, sign me up.

@60,

Of course people don't like being told that. In my personal anecdotal experience, the more they dislike it, the more racist they are. See #17, 21, 46, 56, and 57 for more information.

Cochise.

My experience with "reverse racism" is people talking about affirmative action, "uh what's wrong with a little white pride, if we have black pride?", "nowadays if you're white you can't get ahead, only if you're a woman or a minority" (!?) etc, etc.

I'm not into people yelling "I hate white people" & I wasn't really talking about that sort of thing.

But to be clear, I don't care if you understand what I mean, OK?

Like a said a few days ago kids. Your boy is done. He was done as soon as america saw an angry black preacher jumping around on tv. It's either Clinton or McCain now. Might as well accept it.

keshmeshi, the more you post, the more stupid of a jackass you are.

Ok, i'm sorry and i understand. that makes sense. but i wish you cared and i wish we can still be friends. or like cyberfriends.

man i'm not making any friends today.

@60 ... okay, but like I said, alienating people like 17, 21, etc (and I don't think I really agree with your reasoning that the more they dislike it the more racist they are but again, whatever, for the sake of this argument I'm positing that you are correct) that's alienating a LOT OF PEOPLE. That's not what we want to do to WIN AN ELECTION. You see the problem here?

This was my original point. You're not just alienating out and out racists who would never have voted for Obama anyway. You're alienating people who like to think of themselves as above racism who MIGHT have voted for Obama. And it's a problem.

Oh fine I'm sorry too. That was a bit unnecessary (though you did call me a racist.)

That actually was my original point about not having any conciliatory tendencies.

And even more to the point if I'm going to talk about this election in the real world I'm wondering if I can work up any of that Obama magic. Not that I actually expect to change anyone's mind but every bit counts & realistically "I think the pastor was mainly right" and people who get upset about his words are entitled wusses isn't going to help anything.

@65,

The best you got is "stupid" and "jackass." Pot meet kettle.

The bitching and moaning on this board today only illustrates the point that Obama was trying to make. This has degenerated into finger-pointing whiny bullshit and it is counterproductive.

Obama stuck his neck out on this one, and that is called Leadership, people. Rather than dissecting every syllable, take a step back and listen to the speech.

Blacks are angry. Whites are angry. Obama, who is half-Black and half-White, understands both sides and realizes that this anger is a barrier which prevents progress. If that costs him the election, then, frankly, this country deserves President McCain.

I vote this thread for Most Melodramatic Thread of 2008. Reading it is like watching an episode of Melrose Place. Love, laughter, fighting, reconciliation- man, this thread has it all. "But to be clear, I don't care if you understand what I mean?" Network TV doesn't get this good.

And to add to proud plot arc: keshmeshi is one of my favorite writers around here. But the idea that you can measure how racist someone is by how much they dislike being called racist is one of the most unintentionally funny things I have ever read on the SLOG.

The level of discourse in this thread is amazingly...sad. Poor Dems. McCain is ready to trounce Hillary. Rasmussen's latest poll shows that Hillary gets only 55% of the African American vote in Nov. McCain gets an incredible 45%.

i'm about to laugh. or cry. or something.

Eh, Obama has eight months for people to forget this one, and America has a short memory. All I'll say is: Clinton supporters are deluded if they think that Clinton is "battle-tested" and therefore, by contrast, immune from controversies like this. Sorry, no. They'll just dig up old controversies and recycle them. Or, failing them, invent some new ones out of thin air.

an observation:
You all are all fluffy bunnies in the racism dept.;
SLOG is a glass of liquid sunshine after reading the P.I. Soundoffs about Obamas' speech. What nasty and gnarled woodwork did that bunch bigots crawl out from?

I support Obama, but I have a sinking feeling in my gut. This "typical white person" thing is the missing piece the haters need -- the sliver of a sign that he "sees people as categories and not as individuals" or some such bs.

He needs to take a few days off. And then he needs to go straight into these working class white districts and talk to people.

Just words.

Logically, what's true of a typical person is true of a typical black person and true of a typical white person and true of a typical X person.

Speaking of words, whatever happened to good ol' "prejudice"? Everything is "racist" these days. Shit, we're all prejudiced to some degree but racist used to mean something a tad bit beyond that.

@77

I agree. Everyone is not just a little bit racist. Prejudice, yes.

Obama would have been better off adding in the Jesse Jackson quote regarding walking down a dark street. Except that I've been searching and have yet to find the actual quote rather than a rehash of it.

What it comes down to is no one to vote for in 2008. I really expected better from Obama. I thought we had moved past viewing the world through race tinted glasses. I would not sit in a church for 20 years listening to hateful c**p I did not support. He will not disavow his hate spewing minister but keep throwing his "typically white" grandma under the bus. I really wish that the first American presidential candidate (and president) of African heritage was Colin Powell. Is it too late to organize a nationwide write-in campaign. I would vote for either Colin Powell, Al Gore, or Elizabeth Dole no problem but the three stooges currently running are another story.

Good Evening My American Friends,

A few words of wisdom from the dark continent..

No, not Africa, Northern Ireland. I am deeply saddened that you Americans cannot fully ascertain your roman catholic presidential candidate barrack hussein obama more accurately.

Taught intimately into the precepts of islam by a Father and a Step-Father. Reared ( aptly put ) and placarded ( public record ) as a roman catholic when educated throughout his youth.

Then fully baptized into the religious black leberation theology schism, otherwise known as the ( white hating )spiritual black panthers. Calling this experience "becomming a Christian."

barrack has cake-walked nearly to the nomination without so much as a serious questions asked nor answered by anyone, anywhere. It is the full undoing of the highest office in America and perhaps the world. Save my office. One ( my office where you get a bang for your buck ) of integrity where you get real-time answers 24/7.

No sooner than barrack hussein must answer his first serious questions beyond a concurrent pantheon of entertainment speeches - without substance or relevance - we see immediately this black liberation theologist needs a bit more seasoning ( exposing ). Thank the Protestant God of heaven the phone did not ring at 3:00 AM when the children were sleeping and barrack hussein would awake them by blurting out in a stupor - where the nuances of the heart come forward " Hello! Is this another typical white person? "

After his two black Father's & one white mother skated - his white GrandMother & GrandFather took him in and loved and raised him = result? He throws her under the bus.

What can be said of a man who has been mustered by the imam, pope & a black panther theologist.

Thank my Protestant God that we are now beginning to learn why, barrack hussein has trojan horsed us all away - from his lack of "issue" substance thru the implementation of such grand oratories, in place of plain substantive talk which can only be found right here my friends: www.obamatruth.org

Let the moral compass of the hussein family continue to spin out of control and when it stops the American people will be dumbfounded to learn of the true connection between lou farrakhan and barrack hussein and the black panthers of islam. Created by the vatican to secure Jerusalem thru mohammad's Mother the roman catholic warraqua - which backfired nicely. www.chick.com " The Prophet "

Good Night my American friends!

I am,

Ian Paisley

I guess I am just a typical white guy who has had all the advantages in life and will never understand the plight of the minority population. I can’t help but wonder however why there are so many “minorities” with better educations, make more money and live better than I do. I’m sure it’s just my fault. Don’t get me wrong, I feel very blessed for my life and my family. I simply don’t need an affluent politician who has reaped the benefits of a great country (whatever their race) telling me what is typical. As for Rev Wright, well, he speaks for himself.

Dearest Jack,

My boy... How eloquently put. More so than any grandiose but purposefully misleading speech ever belched from the mouth of the very closeted ( lou farrakhan ) islamic agenda-ite -mr. hussein.

There is a place for you here. Here in Northern Ireland. Where there are few profligates. Where you can be at ease raising your family.

Like being pulled over on the highway, for no reason, with your family in the car, ordered about, humiliated, shook-down, parted from your money and your pride and patriotisms by a lewd, dirty, pre-martial law American nazi policeman. Come - to Northern Ireland, land of the Orangemen where things are made right. We will give you rest. We have done the work.

Or, perhaps... You might have to go to work yourself. For example:

#1 Each and every American walks up to every media face that handpicks the candidate, agenda and the outcome of every political race big and small and you punch them right in the mouth. Every day - every where. Eventually they'll get the message.

#2 Whenever a policeman pulls over a hard working American to steal their money, taser them, beat them and hang them in the gross obscurity of some dark dungeoned prison cell - wouldn't it be a surprise to the catholic former marine bullies that they are to find out you had the handcuffs, you had the tasers and you had the firepower. Wrapped in the American flag that once stated " Don't tread on me! "

All of a sudden, you start getting the real news and your highways become free of repression again. You get the message Jack.

I am...

Ian Paisley