Comments on Re: Resigned

I bet she's above the influence!

Hillary's "As far as I know he's not a Muslim" was a below the belt catty attack, but you gave her a free ride for that.

Consistency? No.

Now Hillary is using the "monster" commend in a fund raiser mail. No is Hillary the victim or the attacker here?

Looks like she's playing both sides, who's using the Karl Rove handbook now?

If Hillary is using the same strategy as ECB, it could be working. I don't even feel like fighting back anymore.

If she can't see that the "monster" quote was completely accurate, there's nothing I can do to convince her otherwise.

Hillary's not a monster. She's a calculating shrew who doesn't give a damn if the Dems win in November if she's not at the top of the ticket. It's time to cut her off at the knees.

ECB, where have you been for the last two elections? Did you read "What's the Matter with Kansas" or any critiques of the last two elections? People have been voting against their own interests. The Repubs create a diverse with issues they don't really care about (gay marriage, immigration) to avoid issues that matter to the people who vote for them in Kansas etc. The heartland of a America is a wasteland and those are the red states - people there continue to vote for Republicans on a values basis.

Your defensiveness about Hilary overshadows all sense and reason. You need to take a little breather and remove your head from a certain cavity.

They voted for Bush twice.

Good point where was ECB when Hillary was implying that McCain has more experience than Obama (and by the way Clinton) or that Obama was a Muslim.

We all better consider this is going to go on UNTIL THE CONVENTION in AUGUST!!!

All those polls saying Hillary or Obama beat McCain now? Enjoy them, they will flip soon enough. We are going to have President McCain. Start coping with that.

ECB, Im not very smart or good at reading but what she said was "If you are X person, and Z candidate makes up something about Y Candidate, it might be effective"

BECAUSE POOR PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT THEIR JOBS.

Hillary Clinton: You can put a pig in a slimming and attractive pant suit. But you can't keep her out of the mud.

Does anybody know of a case where someone apologized to Hillary and she accepted? As far as I know, it's a waste of time to placate her anger. She won't stop demanding you lose your job no matter what. There must be one case where she relented, but I don't know of it.

The problem with What's the Matter with Kansas and all the other books on the topic is that they're written by liberals telling these voters what should be important to them. Even if you accept the notion that these people are voting against their own economic interests, these books amount to telling midwest voters, "hey, you're number one issue has to be your pocketbook." Who are these authors to say what people should take into account when they vote? Perhaps they need a broader definition of "values."

You really are brainwashed idiot ECB. She was not talking about poor people being stupid she was talking about Hillary Clinton lieing to people.

I can't believe you are cheering this woman on as she tears apart the Democratic party. I guess she can do no wrong since she has a vagina.

You are a fucking embarassment to all democrats.

Ever wonder how people could support George W. Bush no matter what? It is the exact same mindset that you have. At least those people's mindset was based on their political beliefs no matter how much one disagreed with them. You on the other hand base it on genitalia.

Actually, she has a perfectly valid point. Clinton uses scare tactics to frighten working class people, and then blames them on Obama. And it worked! They went for it in Ohio.

Clinton is really setting a new standard for deceitful, grubbing behavior every time she opens her mouth these days. Love those John McCain kudos she's been delivering. There's no way those could come back and bite her if she wins, is there? What with all that EXPERIENCE she has and all.

I still think she'd make an OK President, but she's an evil campaigner.

@ pretty much all of the above, ECB pwned as usual. Does it get old, tiring, surprising?

Hillary is NOT a monster.

A dried up worthless cunt with a fishpot crotch, yes. But a monster? No.

i'm hating Ma Clinton more and more everyday.

but i'm despising Obama for being such a puss-puss.

and if you're hating on Samantha Power for her so-called negative comments, doesn't that make you misogynistic? it seems like if you hate on Hillary for the shit she says, you get labeled as a misogynist...seems only fair the same rule should apply to Ms Power.

Hillary has won this one. It's in the bag. Quit yer whining.

Clinton made a couple of inarticulate statements on accident. She obviously isn't saying Obama is a Muslim or that she'd support McCain over Obama.

It's a WHOLE LOT different from an Obama adviser clearly calling his opponent an evil lying monster.

Obama is a good candidate but Obama nuts are getting to be worse than Ron Paul nuts.

RE: 13

Hilary's not tearing apart the democratic party. Democratic voters are perfectly content to tear the party apart all on their own. The negativity and mud-slinging of this comment thread is evidence enough of that.

Meet Me In Denver, Hillary.

Obviously, the Obama campaign made the only decision it could make given that His is a new brand of politics.

This should be very worrying to Obama supporters. He's might have to invent some crazy jujitsu moves get elected in the empirical world.

As for contempt for low-income Americans: maybe, maybe not. One needn't consider them stoopid to fall for a supposed campaign dirty trick, only ignorant. Just like most of us.

@18, Hillary may have won this one, but if that's the case McCain won the general in a landslide

The Clinton team is running a despicable campaign.

"Monster" is too gentle and kind a word to describe Hillary.

Remind me again what Hillary has done for working class Americans? Let's see. Failure to provide universal health care. Check. Support, via Bill, for NAFTA and WTO. Check. Support, via Bill, for "ending welfare as we know it." Check. Support for war on drugs. Check. But it's Obama who is going to take people's jobs away???

Oh and why is it that no one ever includes black people as part of the "working class" when they say Hillary has the working class vote? Or Republicans? Aren't things a bit more complicated than that?

fuck. He made her RESIGN, thus showing his opposition to the statement. WHAT is not clear about this? Erica, I thought you might actually have decided to start becoming sane, but no, like Hilary you will try to drag your inane point through the mud even if no one cares anymore.

@12 Did you read the book? His point was that voters in Kansas and other red states are voting against their own STATED interests.

So, it's OK to imply that poor people are too stupid to ask for time off for a caucus, but when Ms Powers says that they might be being misled by a faux populist who's closest connection to poor people was when she was on the board of Wal-Mart, that's "utter contempt"?

The era of advocacy journalism never died on East Pine Street.

Hi, I'm Hillary Clinton. Here are some things I've done with my superior experience:

- I had a chance to reform health care in this country when I was First Lady, but I did it behind closed doors, alienating people who could have helped me, and so I failed.

- I listened to George Bush's reasoning for going to war in Iraq, thought he was doing the smart thing, and I supported him with my Senate vote.

- I accepted my party's decision to not count Florida and Michigan delegates, but then when I saw that their voters might benefit me, I starting working to have the rules changed after their elections.

- One of my staffers told the Canadian government my position on NAFTA was a campaign tactic and not an economic policy stance. Thankfully it wasn't leaked until after the Ohio and Texas primaries which allowed me to harshly criticize Barack Obama for doing the same thing. Ha! That was a good one.

- I said yesterday that John McCain and I are ready to be Commander in Chief, but Barack Obama, my party's presumptive nominee, is not.

- I hinted today that I would consider being Obama's running mate, but I'm really hoping to be McCain's running mate, so I can destroy the Democratic Party.

- I've convinced lots of women, like Erica C. Barnett to ignore common sense and vote with their vaginas. It is just SO important that I - uh - that a woman - become the next president!

Vote for me!

Monster - ouch, that must really sting, coming from a politically inexperienced academic foreign policy adviser's offhand comment to the Scotsman, while doing a book tour in the UK about her UN book.

Any guesses what the Clintons and their advisers call Obama behind closed doors? Like Bill said: "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina..."
Oohh, the nerve of a junior senator from IL to challenge the establishment.

Erica-
I don't believe Samantha was slamming "stupid working-class" voters but instead the ways that Billary goes after their prey. Tactics like HRC's frequent suggestions that McCain is more qualified for the job than her should-be ally Obama. Get with the program.

Hillary & Bill - soooooo obscenely rich now that she has no street cred on working class issues. That's why the tax returns haven't come out.....

Hey, Erica. I propose we raise bus fares so those poor people can't afford to sit next to you and ruin your day anymore!

How's that for contempt for the poor!

With all due respect, Erica, you need to be careful about talking about firings or resignations when your preferred candidate has a problematic track record both in the White House and in her campaign when it comes to firings.

Are you willing to call for an apology from the Hillary Campaign Official who compared Obama to Kenn Starr and his tactics to Karl Rove?

Are you willing to call out the person who trumpeted the national security experience of the presumptive Republican nominee over Obama? Probably not, as then your candidate herself would have to use that word she seems incapable of uttering, "mistake."

If you care about the party and the fall election, is it not expected that your candidate and his or her staff not to do things to enable the opposing party?

I'm not going to call you names or hurl sexist epithets at you, but rather appeal to your sense of fairness. If this Obama supporter can admit that one Obama official's tongue slipped with a reporter in a tacky way, can you also admit that there are some questionable things being said in the Clinton campaign, eve even by the candidate herself?

Be fair, or defend those statements.

Just yesterday I was reminded about a Slog post ECB made where she railed against the handicapped for taking the bus.

ECB, your Clinton-craving consternation is falling flat these days, I'm afraid.

And it really appears you're picking and choosing what's being said by both campaigns.

This comment thread is pretty vile. Sully was wise to opt out of this crap. ECB, a couple points, though. I think the read of Samantha Power condescending to the "lowly poor" is off the mark. The real sin here was Power's assumption of familiarity with a reporter. You don't think aides on both sides of this thing have uttered far worse than "monster" about the other's campaign among themselves? Power's public inexperience may have cost her, but the fact remains that she is one of the more insightful analysts of foreign affairs in a generation. I doubt very much that she lacks sensitivity to the dynamics of poverty.

you spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round round round

i think erica is one of those women who thinks it's traitorous for a female to support anyone but hillary, so all reason, at this point, is out the window. we should all just stop commenting on these myopic clinton ECB posts.

"POST COMMENTS (0)" would look great.

This sniping must have McCain jumping for joy.

If this is where her 35 years experience making change has brought us, I don't think I want to see the next 8.

Hey! Hillary has eight solid years of first ladyness under her belt! Do you know how many luncheons, charity events, and dinner parties that is???? And don't EVEN forget about those Christmas Tree lightings!

True, she didn't have to arrange any of those events - there were people for that - but she had to put on a dress for a lot of those things, and you know how difficult that is for her. And she did it all without smoking.

And before that, she had all those years as First Lady of Arkansas. That's even more socializing, and that gets really old after a while.

Yeah, 35 years experience making anybody who crosses her change careers.

To anyone who thinks Obama should reciprocate with asshattery:
http://www.theroot.com/id/45132

That is a pretty extreme paraphrase, Erica. I think what she is saying is that Clinton is willing to be very manipulative with people`s fears in order to win. Ummm, which seems true. Nothing there about working people being dumb.

@ 29: I didn't say poor people are too stupid to ask for time off. I said that poor people often DON'T HAVE THE OPTION of asking for time off. Did you go to the grocery store on the day of your caucus? Get a coffee at Starbucks? Fill your car up with gas? Those service workers who helped you HAD TO WORK ON A SATURDAY. They couldn't have all just decided not to go to work for three hours. Thinking that poor people have as many options as you do is what's truly elitist.

Mmmm! This is GOOOOD Kool-Aid, Mr. Obama!

hey, if obama takes the high road and still loses to hillary in the end, that means a majority of democrats are okay with being represented by a fucking slimebag. that kinda sucks, but there's not much i can do about it other than not vote for her.

if democrats wants to claim the mantle of the party of social justice and equality, they should go about it ethically and with class, rather than just by being the lesser of 2 evils. but the fact that people witness her underhandedness [saying mccain is more qualified for the presidency than obama, playing off of peoples' prejudices against muslims, campaign staff comparing obama to ken starr for - GASP! - suggesting the clintons should release their tax records, and so on et cetera....] and still want to be represented by her, than i guess i have to accept that the democratic party doesn't stand for my values after all. bummer.

Those stupid working-class voters—they’ll fall for anything!

Well, they're still vote for her, aren't they?

But, Erica, you don't like to ride the bus with poor people - how is that any different?

Besides, why does Sen Clinton hate strong women with strong opinions like this advisor, who just said what she thought.

Is she supposed to act all girly and deferential?

Or be a hypocrite and then make her husband wonder why he doesn't get much sex?

Well?

poor people have other options Will. That is why it isnt elitist to think public transportation should have a barrier to entry beyond what poor people can afford.

nice update. of course, no hillary fan, mccain fan, etc would "go to any lengths to excuse anything." could you please at least TRY to make this about the candidates, rather than making sweeping generalizations about their supporters based on one person's words or actions?

are you gunning for the title of the michelle malkin of the left? cuz you've got her method down to a science.

service worker=poor person.

Rhetoric that will alienate fellow democrats and lose the election.
"calculating shrew"
"a pig in a slimming and attractive pant suit"
"You really are brainwashed idiot . ...
You are a fucking embarassment to all democrats."
"she'd make an OK President, but she's an evil campaigner." *thank you Fnarf for the improvement in tone- not sarcastic*
"i'm despising Obama for being such a puss-puss."
"Obama nuts are getting to be worse than Ron Paul nuts"
"I'm really hoping to be McCain's running mate, so I can destroy the Democratic Party"

How do you expect to win in November if you can't even be civil to each other now. Oh silly me, this is the way the internet is and its completely isolated from the real world so "no worries".

Oh and thank you andy N for maintaining a reasoned tone. you have a good argument there.

Ergh. The monsters are all busy here, posting comments like a breathless horde at any ECB post.

Oh give me a break, Erica. I've been poor. Dirt poor. Charge food on your gas card poor. Utilities shut off poor. I've been in more demeaning jobs than you can probably even comprehend (when was the last time YOU danced on a table for a bunch of drunk farm wives on a Tuesday afternoon?) and I got time off for important things, including voting and caucusing.

And most of my co-workers who cared about politics did as well. And that includes a lot of single mothers to whom it was a real hassle.

Yes, there were some service industry people that didn't get to caucus because of work. But in a country with as abysmal a voter participation record as this country, do you really think ALL of them were wanting to be at the caucus?

(Update: Obama fans, meanwhile, will go to any lengths to excuse anything.)

ECB, if every private utterance Clinton and her staffers ever offered to a journalist off the record got published, you'd break your spine bending over backwards to excuse all of it. Who are you kidding?

ECB, please do not speak on behalf of service workers. We happily caucased for Obama.

ECB makes a compelling case for be the worst example Hillary supporter in the primary.

voting based on her gender.
excusing or ignoring her tactics.
insulting her opponents supporters.
accusing others of the same things they are doing (hypocrisy).
willing to do anything, no matter how unethical to win.

you see why i said I wouldn't vote for hillary under any circumstance? she basically will do anything and wont be effective in accomplishing anything

Hmmm…let’s see what people wrote…

Calculating shrew. Fucking embarrassment to all Democrats. Deceitful, grubbing behavior. Dried up worthless cunt with a fishpot crotch.

Wow, you are all amazingly intelligent people who fill me with hope. I think one thing that would help change the country is to rid yourselves of such self-indulgent and rude critiques of individual members of the perceived establishment. If you are so tired of the establishment, perhaps you could just write yourself in as President and make it all better. Otherwise, please select establishment candidate A, B or C. If you don’t think Obama is part of this, then I suppose ignorance is bliss!

Oh, and I don’t think criticizing the Clintons for having money is going to get anywhere. It’s not like Obama lives (or has ever lived) on the poverty line. I’m sure that if he serves eight years in the White House he may very well turn out to be just as wealthy. In about fifteen years, he’s going to be what well-meaning but arrogant young people perceive as the establishment, too. He may even be reluctant to release his personal tax returns. Who knows? We don’t, because he’s young enough to appear anti-establishment even though becoming even more powerful is what he most desires, even if he tries to suppress such impressions. When he’s done with his time in the spotlight, we can all criticize his past and call him names so that we can feel better about the next person that promises to be different. What is the objection I can already hear? I don’t know him? Well, neither do you.

It seems for a politician to have a lasting reputation is to have a premature death.

I just want a Democrat in office this fall. Either can make it happen! At minimum, however, you have to have a little perspective.

oh cmon sugamamma, you're honestly paying attention to ecce homo? when oreilly says something do you really think it matters?

The blog poster in the update is basically right, but I don't see it as excusing her behaviour.

Ms Power will recover from this - not sure about Obama - but one thing is certain: lacking both manners and common sense, she will never attain either the power or influence of Mrs Clinton. Not that Clinton necessarily has both, but as a woman you need at least one of the two to get anywhere.

Oh, and @Cato and others:

Managing to get ahead or profit from being dragged through the mud... HOW DARE SHE!!! When she should just lie down and take it like a... female dog maybe??

I'm looking forward to laughing at you (Dem) asshats when McCain & the GOP trounce Hillary & you nutjobs in Nov. Keep it up, Dems!

I remember when Sen Clinton was poor ... um.

No.

Sorry, I forgot she was born with a silver spoon in her mouth, same as GWB was.

Never mind. Guess I was thinking of when she dressed up in full Muslim garb when she went to Afghanistan to sleep with bin Laden.

I'll be laughing at the Hillary supporters.

"...lacking both manners and common sense, she will never attain either the power or influence of Mrs Clinton."

Yeah, Mrs. Clinton was pretty smart to marry Mr. Clinton, that's for sure. Talk about getting your MRS degree!

I really have no problems with ECB, but it is a bit interesting that when the Amanda Marcotte/Edwards thing happened Edwards was "caving in" to right wingers then, but says now: "Obviously, the Obama campaign made the right decision in asking Samantha Power to resign over her statement that Hillary Clinton was “a monster”"

I guess support/non-support for sacking people for their personal opinions is really only right or wrong depending on changing winds or the political tides. It's not exactly hypocrisy, just a bit shitty.

http://slog.thestranger.com/2007/02/edwards_caves_to_rightwing_bigot

@68: Thanks for providing the link. I hope people will read it. There's a difference between expressing the opinion, PRIOR to being hired and on your personal blog, that groups like Bill Donahue's Catholic League are bigoted, and telling a reporter, during an interview done on behalf of the campaign, that your opponent is a "monster" who will lie and tell dumb poor people that Obama will "take their jobs away." They're not even comparable.

You mean like how Sen Clinton lied about the phone call to the Canadian Prime Minister about her not really being "tough" on NAFTA?

That kind of lie?

The kind of lie you then use to urge the PM to then phone the Obama campaign and launch attack ads against Obama for possibly (but not literally) doing what you just did, even though the PM phoned Obama while you phoned the PM?

Yeah, how does that LYING stuff work then, ECB?

@69:
sure, but at the same time what is comparable is people were "resigned" for
voicing personal opinions, and sometimes they should be, but giving no quarter in one case(powers)and splitting hairs about another "prior to the campaign" / "their own blog" (marcotte),does smack of spinning with the wind, to some.

hillary's not a monster.... as far as i know. pass it on.

Erica's not a journalist, as far as I know.

ECB - you keep saying dumb poor people, and it seems you're the ONLY ONE saying that.

Please stop, it's embarrassing.

ECB's not a (fill in the blank), as far as I know. Except, she really is!

She's not a monster, she's a politician. He's not god's gift to humanity, he's a politician. They're in a tight race and we're in it until it is over, and all this name calling and ugliness is making the Rs very happy. Let's stop attacking Erica and focus on the real enemies.

I just want to interrupt the utterly predictable vitriol encountered whenever any Stranger staffer publishes anything other than an Obama mash note to point out that WiS@50...

Or be a hypocrite and then make her husband wonder why he doesn't get much sex?

...has no idea what the Clintons' private lives are like, and is just talking out his ass because he's so pissed that the Obama Wave hasn't yet been able to close the deal.

His pain and frustration is like the sweetest manna from heaven that you could ever imagine.

You ignore all of Clinton's skin-darkening, the "as far as I know," the Jesse Jackson comment, the Muslim emails and photos, but you're going to take umbrage at this? The thing is, you're playing politics with this as well. After all the dirty tricks the Clinton campaign has pulled, trying to claim you're outraged, outraged by this is preposterous. Your policy based attacks on Obama were more believable. Now you just parrot whatever lame campaign spin email Mark Penn sends you every day.

Oh, and where is Hillary's tax return?

I just love it that the Dems are fighting! You guys are the best!

ECB, you are either joking her or an obvious moron. I am beginning to suspect the latter. Have you not been paying attention to the monstrous behavior (and lying) of Hillary over the past couple weeks. I once had respect for her and would have considered voting for her. That's all gone now. ECB, please do us all a favor and remove your head from your anus

Clinton and her red pantsuit are sucking the hope right outta me. Powers is a scholar on Genocide, so no wonder she thinks Clinton is a monster. When the Clintons were in the white house before their mediaeval sanctions against Iraq killed 2 million. That is quit the number there, something Texas T ECB must be proud of. And if we take into account Clinton’s vote for the war, she has a hand in the death of 3.4 or 4 million Iraqis? Calling Clinton a monster is an understatement. Clinton is a Neocon prancing around in red fucking pantsuit following the advise of Bill Kristol and his politics of fear.

I just think it's sad that ECB let her racism get the best of her. Disguising it as feminism just makes it worse.

@82, agree. I think ECB is one of those closeted Northwest racists. A plus about the South is that the racists are open about it.

"Update: Obama fans, meanwhile, will go to any lengths to excuse anything."

I don't see that the posts you link to over at The New Republic are anything but reasoned arguments. Even if you don't agree with Crowley and Cohn, how do they offend?

If Hillary's candicacy is not monsterous, it surely is completely uncouthe. I don't really see why anyone would bother fighting Obama for the nomination anyway. It's such bad taste.

83 - ECB is from the South.

@82:

Calling someone a racist because they support Clinton over Obama? I seem to remember lots of Obama nuts jumping all over posters who suggested those who support Obama over Clinton are sexist.

Sigh...you can't reason with these people.

I have thought about this, commented on it previously and have concluded that yes, ECB is a moron. And I totally agree with comment 82 about the pseudo-feminism. It's really transparent and unbecoming. CASE CLOSED. Carry on

Sven @ 77

I do believe Will was speaking about Ms. Powers. Just a little flipping of the standard feminist retort is all. Funny thing that using feminist rhetoric against one woman attacking another, rather funny is all.

People need to wake up to the BS Obama has been peddling!

First he told us he was an 'outsider' and his goal was "change" and no more business as usual.... he even pledged that if his competition took the limitations that come with accepting public funding he would do the same.... now that he is breaking all time records for fund-raising he's refusing to discuss his previous commitment. LITERALLY, HE IS THE BIGGEST POLITICAL $$$ RAISER IN HISTORY!!!!!!

Then he promised to end the Iraq war in 16 months, then in 2009, then when asked for a 'guarantee' he said 'no promises' yet criticized Clinton for having no "hard date" for withdrawal.... which he doesn't either...... how many times doe s that need to be repeated?????

Top that all off with his insinuations that he voted against the war until informed voters pointed out that he wasn't even in office until almost two years into the conflict at which point his terminology turned to "I never supported the war"... but never fought it either.

Now he's saying that Clinton has "no standing" to criticize him in regards to the Iraq War because she voted to authorize it.... IMHO she voted to allow the start, she has more standing than he does to comment on ending it. He was in no position and did not vote for or against it so what right does he have to make unsubstantiated claims about his stance when his stance didn't matter a steaming coil? He has had no involvement in the Iraq War except to vote continually authorizing the expenditures for it.

Wake up, people (esp. Seattle), he's a breath of fresh HAIR and that's about it.

If nothing else, this is the only subject I've ever agreed with Erica on so that must mean something.

Yeah, it's horrible, almost equally as horrible as what the Clinton campaign has done. It does not excuse either side, but McCain's going to win and that's still better than a Clinton. Go McCain!

@ 91:
"McCain's going to win and that's still better than a Clinton. Go McCain!"

you said it, it's now on the intranets...it must be true. thanks for speaking truth 2 power. old white guys 4 eva!!

#91

fucking stupid - yeah for a hard core WARMONGER - you are full of political shit

Mc Cain will nuke

"Those stupid working-class voters—they’ll fall for anything!"

It worked in Ohio, didn't it?

I am totally for McCain. I love that thinning white hair, that pallor, that funky old man smell. And his temper. God, I love his temper.

But most of all, I love his honesty: I thought it was sexy when he admitted he knew nothing about the economy, and the thought of us being in Iraq for 100 years made me so hot.

Old White Men with unresolved issues make GREAT presidents. Look at the Bush Family. And Richard Nixon. Warren Harding. Herbert Hoover. And who could forget the Greatest President Ever - Ronald Reagan! God, I hope we can be so lucky again as to have McCain develop Alhzeimers, just like Ronnie. It was so cute....

Old white men rule!