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—we have laws to punish those who graffiti, steal, shoot, and kill. We should apply those laws. But stacking on another layer of enforcement and adding penalties seems mostly a feel-good measure, with the potential for unfair ramifications.

Like Hate Crimes laws?

Is gang membership a racially neutral statistic? If not, even an even-handed enforcement of this law might disproportionately affect minorities.

Agnos' article is excellent and worth a read.

Touche, JMR. But I think there's a difference. Hate crimes are committed with the primary intention of intimidating victims because they are a minority. That's not the motivation behind gang violence, which typically targets people who have chosen to engage with them, or the victim is picked at random.

Look out, Dominic! Dan has seen that you wrote that "the Seattle Weekly ... has a terrific article" on a company computer and on company time. He is going to hunt you down and fire you.

Hate crimes extend beyond the immediate crime victim because they send a message to an entire community, regardless of whether the target community is in the majority or minority of whatever neighborhood/city/state/nation you choose to focus on. A hate crime can happen against a group that is a minority locally but a majority nationally, or vice versa.

Gang grimes extend beyond the immediate crime victim because they increase the entire gang's power to intimidate or control their own members, their rival gangs, and the community at large.

Both can and should be punished beyond an ordinary crime.

What do law-abiding, non-destructive black people think when they see the head of the local NAACP defending stomping on people's flower beds and painting profanity on stop signs?

Fnarf, he's not defending those activities. What he said, and what law-abiding, non-destructive people would be right to think, is that those activities don't establish a “pattern of criminal street gang activity." All sorts of kids do that sort of shit--it doesn't mean we should throw the book at them.

Fnarf, most don't really care. The fact that one black person should give a shit about any other black person simply because they're black is a racist attitude itself. It's like when black journalists accost successful (rich) black business people and ask them why they don't do more for "the brothers". Screw that. People can only help themselves.

Hate crimes are committed with the primary intention of intimidating victims because they are a minority.

Yeah. The same principle is used to justify dealing with terrorists differently than "normal" criminals. Which makes you wonder why it's so rare to find someone who supports both antiterror legislation and hate-crime laws . . .

I had no idea anybody proposed no bid contracts for Halliburton and warrantless wiretapping to catch gay bashers.

Huh. Now I know.

What #5 said.

It is very difficult for those not living or working in areas with gang activity to understand the need for citizens to be protected. It's so hard for our own U.S. government & citizens to understand we have a war right here in our communities, our streets, our shopping centers, schools; and we can't get protection. There are many coming around though as they are becoming victimized, have to deal with it at work, or have family members associated. Please people open your eyes and ears, educate yourselves on whats really happening in your own backyards. Coming to a neighborhood near you... If you ever have a chance to attend a gang training, please do. Peace.
http://stoptheviolencewa.tripod.com Mothers of Murdered Children Speak Up to schools and communties.