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1

If Sims isn't on board, ST will lose. He doesn't care about the region now. He's trying to help Clinton win so that he can move to DC.

Posted by Fitz | March 5, 2008 5:54 PM
2

See Josh, you and I agree this one. She shouldn't have said "Obviously, I don't condone burning down houses." I mean, come on.

Is should have been, "It might surprise you to learn, I don't condone burning down houses" or "Contrary to what you'd expect, I don't condone burning down houses."

Or even "The Stranger's lawyers have advised me to say, I don't condone burning down houses."

Posted by elenchos | March 5, 2008 6:02 PM
3

Yet another homophobic tie for Obama. I wonder if the mainstream media will pick this one up?

Posted by Gay Seattle | March 5, 2008 6:14 PM
4

So the Stranger's ST 2 plan will include more buses and more parking.

And this is the rag that is lecturing me about density?

No thanks. I liked my 50 miles of light rail plan with fewer parking spots and a greater ability to foster density.

Posted by smith | March 5, 2008 6:16 PM
5

It is called a recession people, any initiatives that cost money will loose. They shouldh have waited. People do not raise taxes when they are loosing their homes.

Posted by Sound Transit will loose | March 5, 2008 6:20 PM
6

Aw, man, why do you have to attack Microsoft for donating to Cub Scouts? My son's been having a blast in his scout den. His leader works at Microsoft and they are nice enough to fund-match the hours this guy puts in for the organization. I promise you we aren't being mean to any gay kids. I just talked to my son a couple of days ago about homophobia after we overheard a gay slur being used.

I've given to Friends of Scouting myself, but I've also given to the Bailey-Boushay House...

Posted by No Dishonor Intended | March 5, 2008 6:22 PM
7

You know, I'm as much against the BSA's policies as the next liberal, but to "out" the "corporate elite" for supporting a nonprofit that does some positive work with youth is just idiotic elitist douchebaggery.

Posted by bma | March 5, 2008 6:26 PM
8

I'm getting pretty close to saying there is no way I will vote for Ron Sims in the next election, but I guess I can imagine worse...

Posted by Cale | March 5, 2008 6:36 PM
9

Did ST have cost figures for the financing and operating costs?
(Unclear if there is long term financing, or if it's all paid for in 12 years). Did they have ridership figures? I would assume ST has this data, it'd be good to include it in the story, too.

Posted by Cleve | March 5, 2008 6:37 PM
10

@3, I bet a lot of the black preachers backing both candidates are homophobic. If you don't want a candidate who has ties to homophobes, I suggest you not back anyone.

Posted by reality check | March 5, 2008 6:41 PM
11

I take ECB at her word that she is not a terrorist, there is nothing that would make me think that she is a terrorist, she says so that's good enough for me, so no she is not a terrorist...as far as I know.

Posted by ouch | March 5, 2008 7:14 PM
12

Would it be considered a step up for Sims to become Mayor of Seattle? There's got to be a way to get McCheese out. Density, housing, greenspace etc. for all!


P.S. Clinton is the new Nader, pass it on.

Posted by Anon | March 5, 2008 7:29 PM
13

WOW because the Boy Scouts do some good for the little kids (I was one once) we can forgive their hatred and expulsion of gay kids. Just shows ya that Gay-Americans can be thrown under the bus and, oops it must have been a bump in the road.

Posted by Sargon Bighorn | March 5, 2008 7:34 PM
14

@13, by convincing the United Way to drop the Scouts from their funding, Gay-Americans have done a lot more to throw kids like my son under the bus.

I'm just saying that I don't see it as the same sort of systemic, organization-wide hatred as the Stranger does. The local groups are what the parents make of them. Ours is more the bird house assembling, marshmallow roasting type than a gay-bashing type.

Posted by No Dishonor Intended | March 5, 2008 8:01 PM
15

Cleve--stop hating on ST just because your monorail failed to get off the ground--seriously, move on.

The new ST plan features a 12 year construction plan with 20 year financing. Just what polling showed voters wanted after Prop. 1. As for ridership, they are going to Northgate and Bellevue with light rail. Northgate is #1 in estimated ridership on new lines nationally and the Eastside is easily top 10. Everyone knows that--stop hatin'.

Posted by tiptoe tommy | March 5, 2008 8:23 PM
16

@15
Mr. tiptoe tommy, if you are going to get personal this demands a response.

If you know the numbers I asked for, I ask you to provide them. Sounds like you are in the know, somehow. If you know the numbers for that 20 year finance cost, what is it? IS that the estimated time of payoff or just an arbitrary line like in ST 2.0?

Operating subsidy?

Ridership in trips per day?

You claim the ridership is good so I assume you have that data.

I ask you to provide it so everyone can know it.

Now, you mention monorail. OK, here's a partial response of my experience and where I am coming from on the light rail:

Monorail wasn't "mine" it was a project owned by everyone in Seattle. Light rail isn't yours or ST's, it is proeprty of everyone in the relevant area.

I consistently said since about 2001 Seattle needs an east side line (monorail) and a west side line (light rail) to make a big X and provide links to all four corners of the city, rather than leaving out half the city from our rapid transit system. I said it's not really about what kind of train it is, it's about where it goes and how it serves the four corners of Seattle or not. Trains don't jump from one track to anther so to me it has always been about the entire transit system and how it links together, not about favoring one kind of train over another "just because."

I worked to make the monorail fans give up their big monorail "X" as per Sherwin's idea in I 53.

So this wasn't working for "moonorail" per se, it was working for transit that makes sense.

I ran for an elected spot on the board of the monorail project in 2003 -- after it was learned the tax projections were off and everyone in the know knew the fate of the whole project was thrown into doubt. It was known its fate would not be known until the siting of the line was done, the contract was specified and bid on, and the finance plan was put together.
So in 2003 when running I said I would oppose building the 14 mile line if there was not enough money or if it was too compromised; and if it were to be cut that would only be with new voter support.

This course was followed. The finance cost came in at an excessive finance cost and term, so I opposed building the 14 mile monorail. I pushed and pulled the board to accept the MVET growth rate urged by the mayor. I pushed the board to cut the line to further reduce finance costs. I pushed to put the shorter line to a vote instead of just cutting it without any voter apporval as other agencies do -- building something contrary to what voters were told or what they approved. As a result the 14 miles were off the table and a shorter line was put to the voters and the total finance cost and other numbers were more reasonable. There was a vote and it lost.

Here's where this leaves us. First of all, half of Seattle is now proposed to be taxed for a generation or so but to get no service. OK. I think that's wrong and there should be aplan to hook them up rather than taking money and providing no service.

SEcond, I ahve said ST should have directly elected board members. I believe opposing this is to oppose accountability. Surely ST should not build something voters don't want.

Third, I have said there needs to be transparency and disclosure by disclosing and all of us discussing a finacne plan, all costs, and actual quantied benefits such as trips per day per dollar of investment and other data like that.

Overall I continue to believe that what matters most is government that keeps its promises and is accountable, versus government that does not keep its promises and is unaccountable and build something that voters have not approved.

For public accountability and true ownership, the public needs to be informed.

That is why I ask questions like: how much does it cost? how many riders will there be? and so on.

People should know this data for the new light rail expansion proposal. Before we even begin the discussion or form an opinion of what position to take, we should know this data.

So, I plan to keep on asking questions.
Mr. anonymous tiptoe tommy.

If you believe that the public should know the data then I ask you to help put it out in the public domain, so, if you have the data, I ask you to simply share it. I would also ask you to not attack anyone who asks for data that we are entitled to know, and should know.
I believe most people would support the public's right to know. If you support the public's right to know, please provide the data.

Posted by Cleve | March 5, 2008 9:53 PM
17

Tiptoe, I would think you'd want the same facts as Cleve for - maybe even - the same reasons. It's my money, I need to see the fine print. Even if you wanted something badly you shouldn't blind-trustingly put your signature on the check. Facts are useful. They are verifiably repeatable and can be used as both benchmarks and elements of a contract. If ST gets more of my money, I want to know exactly how much more, for what, when it's paid for and what my overall, total obligation is and what the end-product/service will be, and if it isn't, who do I complain to, who will be held accountable, and what will be done to fix it.

Posted by chas Redmond | March 5, 2008 9:56 PM
18

A scout patrol can consist of horny adolescents from 12 to 18. Is it really unreasonable of parents not to want the kids to be lusting after each other on overnight hikes? This might explain why the Girl Scouts are not opening up their sleeping bags and legs for young men.

Posted by midnight groper | March 5, 2008 11:08 PM
19

Maybe parents should be the ones spending time with their kids. Don't expect others to do what you yourself should be doing. Too busy? Don't have kids. If they persecuted black children instead of gay children I'd feel the same way. Don't let bigots raise your kids and don't expect me to support it when you do.

Posted by Vince | March 6, 2008 7:20 AM
20

By the way... Is that Gary Locke in the photo?

Posted by Vince | March 6, 2008 7:23 AM
21

The Scouts have a lot of great things to offer.

If Microsoft and other big donors support them, maybe the boy scouts can get off the LDS and Methodist teat and join the rest of us in the 21st century.

Posted by six shooter | March 6, 2008 8:37 AM
22

Maybe parents should be the ones spending time with their kids.

Adolescence is a time of preparation for adulthood, which entails separation from the parents, learning self-reliance, and learning how to work together in groups. This provides a full plate; there are opportunities outside the boy scouts in which a young man can learn how to deal with horny teenagers who are sexually attracted to him.

Posted by midnight groper | March 6, 2008 8:47 AM
23

Oh midnight groper, you're a hoot! I agree we should keep those mindless, slathering, hormone-driven, gay-monster-rapist teens away from our normal kids.

Posted by Mittens Schrodinger | March 6, 2008 9:45 AM
24

If ST comes to the ballot in Nov 08 - by iteslf, without roads (other than bridges and interchanges), it will pass.

All the rest is commentary from people still upset cause Sierra Club ripped their hearts out with a knife for backing a pro-roads global-warming-increasing pollution-increasing nightmare RTID/ST2 package.

Posted by Will in Seattle | March 6, 2008 10:23 AM
25

Do gays act differently from straight males? Consider the acquaintance rape and sexual assault experience of college women (but girls 16-19 are the most likely to be sexually victimized.)

* One in four women surveyed was victim of rape or attempted rape.
* An additional one in four women surveyed was touched sexually against her will or was victim of sexual coercion.
* 84 percent of those raped knew their attacker.
* 57 percent of those rapes happened while on dates.
* One in twelve male students surveyed had committed acts that met the legal definitions of rape or attempted rape.
* 84 percent of those men who committed rape said that what they did was definitely not rape.
* Sixteen percent of the male students who committed rape and ten percent of those who attempted a rape took part in episodes involving more than one attacker.

Posted by midnight groper | March 6, 2008 10:31 AM
26

@19, Every single one of the kids in our den has at least one parent along at every den meeting, every Monday. I spent a week at Camp Brinkley in Monroe with my son last summer, and three other long weekends on other Scout campouts last summer. There's a scout activity virtually every weekend (this weekend we're starting a food drive to gather food donations in our neighborhood for Food Banks).

One of our camping excursions was with the Canada Scouts, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish the BSA were more like that organization (which, by the way, lets girls join), but the Cub Scouts are the only game in our town for this kind of stuff my son likes to do with his friends and their moms and dads.

We don't persecute anyone, seriously. My son and I are actually atheists...

Posted by No Dishonor Intended | March 6, 2008 2:46 PM

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