Comments on And Now a Bill that Republican Leader Sen. Pflug Voted Against...

Three things to think about:

1. It is likely the WTO or NAFTA will rule against this, which hopefully can be held off until Pres Obama tells them to sod off.

2. The timber industry exemption is most likely due to the NAFTA and FTA restrictions we foolishly put in - so it was set aside to avoid that battle between BC and WA.

3. This goal could easily be met just by a sales tax exemption for the 520 bridge tolls for plug-in hybrids that get more than 60 mpg - in about three years. And removing the commercial fuel exemption for vehicles that don't meet 40 mpg or better that are bought from 2010 on.

Great, but I would not be surprised in the slightest to hear Gregoire suddenly opt not to sign it, in an effort to show those folks out East that she's one of them - really! she is!

There are no plug-in hybrids that get 60 MPG, Will.

How realistic are those reduction goals? In reality, miles driven is skyrocketing. It's hard to see how any state action at all is going to reverse that trend, aside from maybe a dollar a gallon tax, which isn't going to get past anyone, unfortunately.

And now a word about Ms. P flug. You really can't blame her you know. She is easily distracted when she is away from her home out in the hamlet of Hobart. You know what they say...So many Bills so little time.
And if Rossi's cell phone is busy when the roll call comes around to P, well gosh ...what's a girl to do but flip a coin.

Really?

Then why are they selling them in Japan - and they get way more than 60 mpg?

In fact, there are cars that get 60 mpg now.

Maybe you should realize the US is not the center of the worldwide auto industry and they've had plug-in electric cars and trucks in other countries for a while now.

(aside - first Model T truck got ... how much mpg, Fnarf? yeah, that's not a misprint)

Urghghghgh. Pflug is my State Senator. Fuck fuck fuckity fuck. If only I wasn't an atheist smartass with no agenda and no charisma, I would so totally run against her and kick her ass in the general election.

Name one, Will. Seriously, name one. Make and model, any country. It's got to be a real car, though; none of these 20-MPH electric jobbies.

No concept cars either. For sale on March 1, 2008.

The best-mileage cars around are probably the VW "Blue Motion" Polo diesels, that have been promoted as 60 MPH, but that's imperial gallons, and real-world results are worse.

It would also be pointless for the state to grant exemptions to cars that the federal government doesn't allow in the country.

Your plug-in hybrids also depend on a false assumption: that electricity doesn't have any environmental costs.

Of course, it doesn't matter, because you don't need to get 60 MPG to make a difference. You just need to get rid of all the 10 MPG or less boats out there.

Will-

mpg is a function of power output. Put a 5hp trolling motor on my car, it would get 100mpg. But it would do 22mph and take 120 seconds to get up to that speed. So the Model T thing doesn't impress me.

The challenge is to do it in a way that will allow people to trade in their fossil fuel cars. I hope Tesla and Aptera and all the others get it done. I would buy an Aptera tomorrow if one were available.

Just go to the Toyata and Honda websites in Japan. And to the EU websites.

We'll be seeing those cars here soon, because the easiest way to reduce global warming emissions is to sell us those cars too. I think there are at least three in the 2009 model year that come out this fall in the US, and more in the 2010 model year.

I like the Indian car that gets 60 mpg and only costs $5000, but it won't be on market until 2012 ... and not in the US market.

I'll settle for the 2009 plug-in hybrids.

No, Will, I want a make and model. Not your imaginary shit. And that Indian car? zero emissions gear, zero safety gear. Not a good choice for the Pacific Northwest.

Neither Toyota or Honda currently sells a plug-in hybrid in Japan or anywhere in the EU.

"Peugeot of France now has a car, called a 308, similar in size to a Prius, that recently averaged 60 mpg from a conventional engine (results from 350 road miles AA/ALD Automotive MPG Marathon 2007, Oct. 4, 2007)."

There, another car I didn't know about.

NOW STFU and try READING THE FRICKIN SITES IN OTHER COUNTRIES, FNARF!

Also, in reference to your first post, there are currently for sale in the US exactly two car models that get 40 MPG: Prius and Civic, both (non-plug-in hybrids). The Smart fourtwo gets 41 highway, but most drivers won't hit that, especially on the 520 bridge.

The mileage marathon is a specialized event involving fanatically careful drivers trying to break records. Peugeot's published figure, probably very optimistic for typical drivers in the US, for the 308 is a little over 52 MPG -- still a fantastic figure, but, alas, not a 60-MPG plug-in hybrid, which is what you claimed.

Unfortunately Peugeots have not been sold in the US since 1991. I wish they were; Renaults too.

and, Fnarf, just in this COUNTY, there are more than three businesses that will convert your car to a plug-in hybrid that gets 80 to 100 mpg.

Yes.

Here.

Now, would you just admit you're WRONG?

(fuckin clueless)

Out of curiosity, of what relevance is the number of miles a vehicle is able to drive per gallon of fuel once you've converted it to use something besides or in addition to liquid fuel?

Isn't the MPG for a plug-in electric-gasoline hybrid simply a factor of how hard you drive it? It gets an infinitely large number of "miles per gallon" until the combustion engine kicks in, right?

On second thought, it wouldn't be infinitely large, it would simply be something we cannot calculate. The measure of miles per gallon ceases to make sense when there are zero gallons. As gallons approach zero, MPG approaches infinity.

No, Will, I'm not wrong. You're full of shit.

Conversion cars, which are by definition one-offs, don't count. You know that, which is why you waited until after midnight to post this.

There are NO COMMERCIALLY-AVAILABLE PRODUCTION PLUG-IN HYBRIDS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.