Comments on Zipcar Responds

LOL!!! AWESOME Job Erica!! You are my new hero!!!!! If I was not so gay I would SOOOO hit on you right now!!!!

I am going to start e-mailing Zipcar when we can see those BMW's in Seattle.

"Change is bad. We hate chains. Bring us our old local service back. Wa wa."

It is pretty stupid of them to change all the rates right away...automatically makes existing flexcar members angry.

Anyone notice you cant take out a zipcar for just 30 minutes? Your reservation needs to be at least a hour...kinda lame

@2, you clearly haven't had the pleasure of dealing with zipcar. they are much worse in customer service, in car maintenance, and in overall satisfaction than flexcar ever had been.

erica, do you know why flexcar decided to get out of the business?

Can't wait to read the article. Thanks for taking it up. And @2, its a bit obvious that this particular cake has to many layers for you to cut into. I'm sure that there are other slog items where your "insert typical response calling folks whiner, etc to typical seattle response to transition" might work. Here is not one of 'em. better luck next time. no worries.

After seeing my rate plan go away with Zipcar I test drove and bought a new car this afternoon. I just canceled my Zipcar membership.

Zipcar shifted my thinking!

I think we can all agree that 90 percent=”most,” yes?

Yes, 90% = "most", but turn it around. "Most" implies 50-90%. Kennedy has a point on that one.

Aside from that, nice job.

Excellent diligence to rebut precisely with facts making the ocasional correction. ECB you win, Zipcar loses, keep it up.

Great article Erica, I look forward to seeing if Zipcar will make any changes, if not, then I will need to buy a car. So much for sharing.

Great article and follow-up.

I've got to send this to my boyfriend who has been complaining non-stop about the Zipcar change. Maybe he'll participate in the comments so I don't have to hear about it anymore.
This PR lady, Kristina Kennedy is acting like she's a lawyer for big tobacco rather than working for a community service. She should say: "Thank you for your comments. We really appreciate your feedback because we want to make Zipcar as good as it can be. I do have a couple things that I think Erica didn't quite get right blah blah blah."
Another sign the Zipcar isn't going to work in this community.

do you know why flexcar decided to get out of the business?

I can think of a few rea$on$.

Also, Kristina Kennedy saying an ECB article is loaded with biased inaccuracies is like saying the sun comes up in the morning.

The whole thing seems like a pain in the ass. Even though I take the bus 90% of the time and often go a week without driving myself anywhere, I'll keep my car. The extra cost is worth the convenience when I need it.

FANTASTIC REBUTTAL. They only care about PR, not customers. If they spent that much time caring for customers, they would be on to something! It is evident in the transitions that all of us Ex-Flexcar members went through that they don't give a crap. However, now I don't even have a choice to use them as they took all my cars away. Time to buy a car, yet again...

"I don't have a vendetta against Zipcar"

It sure comes across that way to me, Erica. Your article was incorrect on a couple of points, and on many of the others that the spokesperson raised you seem to have gone out of your way to state things in a way that mislead your readers to think that things are worse than they are. This was not an article taking a balanced, realistic look at the plans under the two companies.

OK, so I'm with you on #1 and #10, Kennedy is being a little silly. But I would say on points 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 11 you did a really poor job of reporting, and instead were just making a list of things that piss you off; on some of these you admit to getting the facts wrong and on others you defend your misleading words. #3 you merely did a somewhat poor job in reporting, since "most" is less informative than "90%" and if you had both at your fingertips why would you give your readers the one that is less informative? #2 may be an honest factual disagreement between you and Zipcar, but I have to say that your version fails to show anything other than that the reservation system was down on Saturday afternoon, and perhaps at other times; is that or is that not part of the 18 hours that Zipcar cites? How about figuring that out for us instead of indignantly stating that various anecdotes also show that the system was down for some undefined period and from that extrapolate that it was unavailable "all weekend"?

That leaves #8, which I'll get to in a moment.

I understand that a lot of people are pissed about the changeover, and I agree that Zipcar hasn't handled it perfectly. But I for one am very happy to have them back. They treated me great while I was in Boston, where I got a very reasonably-priced plan through my school. I never had any problems with customer service, my cars were always there when I needed them, and I prided myself in fueling up the car for the next guy any time I had a couple minutes left on my reservation on the way home--which I often did, since I was always careful to give myself extra time to avoid the awkward situation of having someone waiting when you're late.

As for #8: I honestly don't understand some of the complaints about rewards and fines, and I'm kind of disappointed to discover that in order to enjoy carsharing my fellow Seattlites must be bribed to fuel up and allowed to drive around after their time is up. If I think I am running late on my reservation I think it is totally reasonable that I call and reserve the next half-hour slot if it is still available, if for no other reason than to make sure that someone else doesn't sign up only to find that the car isn't back yet, and it is supremely easy to extend your reservation in this way. Aside from that concern, do you really think you deserve an extra 10 or 15 minutes of driving without paying? Because if you drive for an extra 15 minutes, that's 15 extra minutes of fuel & maintenance that you're charging to those of us who follow the rules. And as for the case where someone IS waiting, while it would suck to get hit with a hefty fine for tardiness, it isn't the company who's going to hit you--it's the member after you who's waiting to use the car to drive their cat to the kitty ER and can't because your ass is late. In my experience, Zipcar isn't going to fine you for being even more than 5 minutes late unless the person waiting for the car complains. And you know what? They signed up for it, you're bad at sharing, you deserve to pay a fine. Learn to share.

I own a business - and used Flex cars often for daytime runs.

Have not looked to see where the zippys are at, but the main reason Flex was good was all the locations on the Hill.

An ECB post that I agreed with? I'm speechless

Go get 'em ECB!

I echo @3's complaint of not being able to make a half hour reservation. That was key for me taking friends home from my place. A quick ~10 minute one way trip can easily take 45 minutes to an hour on the bus late at night or cost way more than $5 in cab fees.

@16: I think you've nailed it with a thoughtful, detailed post. To have someone with such strong anti-Zipcar opinions attempt to write a factual story about the company is absurd. So many parts of the story were cast a way to make Zipcar look as bad as possible.

Erica, why not just write it straight and let the reader decide for him/her self? If the facts are as you say it should be obvious to us; we don't need to be beaten over the head. As it is, it feels like you're using information selectively to force the reader to your conclusion.

I agree with @16 and I hope Zipcar sues Erica's ass for libel.

$2 difference is only a big deal in "Better of Dead"

They also charge the rental-car tax, which Flexcar was waiving, which actually makes it MUCH more expensive. For example, a regular Honda Civic, under Flexcar’s old plan, would cost you a flat $40 for four hours. That same Honda Civic now costs $42.

#20 is Kristina Kennedy!

Seems like if another company is going to take over a beloved Seattle company, they should at least make an effort to keep the level of service the same for a little while.

That Kennedy woman scares me. But maybe Erica left out all the smiley emoticons that Kennedy included.

I've noticed in some slog user comments that some people think that the lowest Zipcar plan is $50/month. There's actually an "occasional use" plan that doesn't have a monthly fee (er, I mean "commitment") but does, I believe, have higher hourly rates.

I've only watched one instance of a flexcar person trying to create a zipcar account, but the availability occasional use was not obvious when they went through the sign-up process. Instead, zipcar recommends the $50/month fee (which obviously makes them more money than the occasional use plan).

For Flexcar users making the move to Zipcar, Zipcar should have had a better user interface and offered up the occasional use plan, while also offering info on the other plans. More ideally, they would have had your usage history for the past year, and then initial highlighted the plan that would be the best fit for you.

My main gripe though is the fact that Zipcar had little interest in the "community" that Flexcar created in the Seattle area. Maybe Kennedy did acknowledge that but it wasn't shown to us, I don't know. But I do know that there were many passionate Flexcar users in Seattle. Did Zipcar survey any of them before the switchover to see why they loved Flexcar more than Obama? Do they even care? Can you tell that I'm still annoyed by Homegrocer.com's sell-out to webvan?

When I sent my opinion about the transition to zipcar, I was given a short terse response. Zipcar could have been more proactive and wow'ed Seattle Flexcar fans before (and during and after) the transition. Instead they just throw us that Kennedy crap which sounds like, as another slogger stated, something from a tobacco lawyer.

what would be the implications of just getting a car with a few people to be shared, much like an apt? seems to accomplish all of the above with a lot more convenience and no snooty bitches whining about how their product must be superior to that which they just bought, even though all signs say otherwise.

Have one in the office garage - 10 years old sedan, excellent condition - for the use of the staff - fully insured, help yourself - put some gas in it - no problems and have been dong it for 10 years.

12 employees, nice perk - do I get a tax break?

Real car sharing. In our case, most of the staff do not drive at all. Not uncommon among the Hill dwellers and workers.

Marty, cool idea. Great perk.

I shared a car with two friends for a while. It worked really well. None of us needed a car for a daily commute, just to visit family out-of-town, or for buying anything that was unpleasant to haul home on the bus. And yeah, two of the three of us were Flexcar members as well, in case there was some conflict.

That car died, and now I live in an area without great bus service to where I need to go, so I own my own car. It's expensive. Wish I had a good alternative.

I wish that car sharing was economically feasable but it does not seem that it really is. Zipcar may have to charge more to be make a profit but will people use it still if the higher rates makes simply purchasing a car of their own more feasable?

The elephant in the room that no one is talking about is this: IF Seattle had better transit options IN TOWN like faster and more frequent bus service in the evenings and weekends people would not have as much of a need for car sharing. Seriously, why is this problem not getting addressed while dealing with car sharing? The reason I had Flexcar and now Zipcar is not that I want access to a car but for the simple reason Metro DOES NOT GET ME THERE most of the time! IF busses ran more frequently on the weekends and later and IF there were more bus shelters that did not turn into homeless dumping grounds I would not need car sharing to run errands on the weekends.

But instead King County screwed Seattle with the 40-40-20 rule on transit funding.

$42 is "MUCH more expensive" than $40? Really? Do you really think that's a fair way to phrase it? It's nice that the author if an article gets to personally decide whether your article was fair or not. Does the Stranger have any actual editors?

Good job! It has been a bad switch, I for one plan to dump zipcar.

"They also charge the rental-car tax, which Flexcar was waiving..."

Wrong again. The state tax collector was waiving it, not Flexcar. Flexcar sent out letters stating that it was beginning to collect it.

Can you tell that I'm still annoyed by Homegrocer.com's sell-out to webvan?

God yes, it would be so much better to have had a bankrupt Homegrocer here than that evil bankrupt Webvan.

Zipcar shows every sign of a company with business plan that hasn't worked and won't work.

Notice the last two words from their mileage FAQ. They are frustrated.

For reservations that exceed 24 hours, you get 20 miles for each additional hour up to a maximum of 180 miles per day. So if you reserve for 1 day and 2 hours, your reservation includes 220 miles (180 + 40). And if you reserve for 1 day and 9 hours (or up to 2 days), your reservation includes 360 miles. Get it?

They are not working in an industry where they are likely to make big bucks. They probably don't have a lot of cash to work with. If I wanted the service I'd help them and support them, not bash them.

Take a lead from the Sound Transit toadies - they never have seen a bad move by their agency.

You're wrong, ECB. I use ZipCar too, and the only day of that three day weekend that they were unavailable was Sunday.

Everything about zipcar sucks comared to flexcar. It is more difficult to make a reservation online. You can't take the key with you if make a stop. I could go and on and on but I think I will just buy a car instead of using this service.

#34. I could not access any zipcars downtown beginning mon. through wed. In addition, I did not even get a zipcard until saturday. Meaning- I did not have access to a zipcar for an entire week and was not able to make several appointments for work.

ECB's bias is not anti-Zipcar, but rather, softly anti-capitalist: she loathes the uncertainty that is an unavoidable of living in a market economy. It's natural to get angry when a price structure you've come to depend on changes. But it's not like ZipCar has some kind of god-granted monopoly, and nobody is forcing you to patronize them. You aren't being price-gouged. If it's really that terrible, buy a goddamned car.

I agree with @16 and feel like @12's point is really important too -- I'm assuming Flexcar would have stayed an independent company if they'd been tremendously profitable. Some of these changes may have been necessary to keep the company in business.

A (not-that-much)more-expensive car share service is better than NO car share service.

I also love that $2="MUCH more" whereas as 90% only = "most."

@33: I worked for HomeGrocer (then Webvan), and the reason they're bankrupt isn't because HG was, you know, nice to their customers. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

When they took over, they couldn't wait to impose their rules on their employees and customers. Getting rid of the peach logo (which you can still see the shadow of on a number of delivery trucks in the area... sigh...) was the first sign that they were completely tone-deaf when it came to this market. The message after the transition was, playtime is over, so get used to more inconvenience.

People fled in droves.

It's one thing to try to increase margins on your service. It's another to make your own company unfriendly to current and potential customers. HomeGrocer still had a good chance to turn a profit, had it stayed independent, because we had happy customers, who were sold on the service. Webvan, thanks to its distaste for the customer experience, never had that chance.

Pay attention, Zipcar. I see Webvan written all over you.

This is just the Judean People's Front vs. the People's Front of Judea all over again.

ECB, thanks for stating the facts. I have yet to completely finalize my new account with Zipcar, so I'm taking all this into consideration before I do so. It's great to have this kind of detailed information in-hand.

I will agree with a few other commenters that you seemed to be determined to portray Zipcar in a negative light because you're pissed off at how the change in service went. Everybody's pissed off, but being pissy doesn't fix anything.

I don't think I'm even going to activate my Zipcard. I used Flexcar maybe five or six times in two years, and it was awesome mainly because UPASS rates topped out at $8.38 an hour on the final bill (before the rental car tax). I just don't think I'm willing to pay two or three dollars more per hour.

Very sad to see Zipcar doing what all of us members not-so-secretly feared. Having a Flexcar in my neighborhood, (CD,toyota truck) was extremely convenient--it was used nearly every single day (even Christmas Day!)for the past 3 years that I have been a member. I hardly ever saw it sleeping in its solo spot except late late at night and when I grabbed it for my monthly use for the Costco, grocery store and bi-annual mulch runs. It was an excellent tool for picking up various friends and family members late at night (194 stops running at ~9:15) from SeaTac rather than having them endure the drunk-tank horrors of a p.m. 174 bus or a $60+tip unfamiliar STITA cab ride.

You are gone my 2001 4 cyl. royal blue Tacoma. How I miss thee. I suppose I'll have to do what everyone else is and buy a Fit or Yaris, which seems to be the new safe cheap car of choice in Vancouver. The gasoline and insurance will cost me dearly, while further enriching those who are essentially selfish and anti-planet.

Seriously. I can't really say what #16 said any better (way to go Exile...)
This is exactly why nothing gets done in Seattle. The endless whining and droning and picking apart of any change... Here's the deal -- I moved to SF because I was sick of the LACK of mass transit in Seattle. Flexcar was a great, convenient, and smart option when I lived there. Now that I am in SF, I *still* find Zipcar great, convenient, and smart. I applaud the Stranger for their advocacy on the monorail and other transit options, but (once again) SERIOUSLY. To print someone's gripes about the transition and call it "news"? Then to try and back it up with -- looky what everyone else has to say!! on YELP of all places. PLEASE.
I also really love all the posters who stomp their feet, throw a tantrum, and say, I'm gonna buy a car! It's all zipcar's fault! I am sure we'll be seeing posts from them about how HORRIBLE traffic is and how EXPENSIVE parking is on the Hill in about 9 months. And their cries for something more "smart, convenient, and community-minded...."

Give me a break.

$2 does not equal "much more." $2 plus 11 percent does. I spelled out the cost difference in detail in my post. Go read it.

I was a Flexcar member for over five years and was annoyed at pretty much everything that Erica pointed out. I used the flexcar in lieu of buying another old car for occasional trips. Right now I am saving to buy a ten year old Toyota or somesuch... The no half hour increments was the straw for me. Oddly enough all of my trips in flexcars were about 1.5 hours and at my UPass rate cost me about $11-$13. Now under Zipcar these will cost me upwards of $20 each (at 6-10 trips a month this really adds up). Thanks Zipcar, it's no longer financially feasible for me to be carsharing!!!

i like ECB's reply for the most part because i hate it when a company makes it sound like it was only mild when the inconvenience was actually huge. you have many people complaining about the length of time service was out, and yet the company acts like it wasn't a big deal.

but in the same way, "most" does not communicate 90% (if that is accurate) very well. ECB's writing tends to present data in the way best to make her case -- the exact thing Zipcar is trying to do with the 18 hours thing.

finally, it is strange that Zipcar is lashing out as opposed to trying to smooth things over.

@Andre: Erica was wrong about losing 1/2 hour increments. You can still get them after the first hour. Try it before you jump ship. You get a $50 credit anyway.

ECB @46

$2 does not equal "much more." $2 plus 11 percent does. I spelled out the cost difference in detail in my post. Go read it.

what you posted:

They also charge the rental-car tax, which Flexcar was waiving, which actually makes it MUCH more expensive. For example, a regular Honda Civic, under Flexcar’s old plan, would cost you a flat $40 for four hours. That same Honda Civic now costs $42. Maybe that will change when the state hands over funding promised by Gov. Christine Gregoire to help defray the cost of the rental tax, but the Civic will still cost a minimum of $38 for four hours.

You're just wrong. Flexcar was going to start charging the tax. At most with zip passing through the tax and flex not, it would be $6 dollars more for 4 hours.

@49. They only offered me a $25 credit not a $50 credit. Yes, you are right now that I looked at it, they do offer half hours after the first hour. This of course does nothing to address my other concerns though. When I emailed them about the increase in my annual fee, hourly rate, etc. I got no response to any of those concerns simply: "Are you a U-PASS holder? U-Pass holders can join for $25/year instead of $50/year." They gave me no way to actually get the U-Pass discount and there is no way to get one in thier portal. Shouldn't they KNOW from my account with Flexcar that I was a UPass holder? I mean they have my account records now don't they??? Seems like this transistion is being botched from the start.

To all the people ragging on ECB for her opinionated posting:

Last I checked, Slog is a blog, not a newspaper. Webster's defines a blog as "a personal chronological log of thoughts published on a Web page." In this case, it's a news blog, so stuff is more or less related to current events.

But THOUGHTS, people! Thoughts ≠ objective.

@52: I was thinking the same thing and wanted to cut her some slack, but this story is not on slog, it's on the home page on Stranger.com under News.

@52: I think increasingly the line between journalism and opinion is blurring. Bloggers exist in this weird space between pundit and news source, so when a blogger reports on something factual, I don't expect their reports without bias, but I do expect it to be without errors.

Also, this is a Slog, not a Blog.

Finally, what @53 said.