Slog - Comments on What I Want to Know About http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about Wikipedia is failing me, mostly. I just finished Graham Robb's excellent The Discovery of France, which—to put it broadly—describes how the incredible cultural diversity of medieval France was funneled into a single national identity. (Here's a googly-eyed New York Times review; here's a pursed-lipped critique from The New Republic.) There's a tantalizing section in the book about the cagots, a persecuted minority (probably more caste than race) whose origins were variously attributed to leper colonies, Saracens, or Visigoths; whose looks were usually described as tall and blond, but sometimes short and dark; and whose population was long ago absorbed by... Copyright 2008 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:29:32 -0800 Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:40:46 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by gillsans Uh, try Google, I guess.

]]> gillsans http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944453 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944453 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:46:31 -0800 Comment by Justin Very interesting! I'd never heard about this either.

]]> Justin http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944460 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944460 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:49:18 -0800 Comment by Zannah There isn't one in the Bibliothèque nationale here in Paris, and the BnF tends to have everything available on French history, no matter the language. What with English being the language of academia and the BnF having books in Spanish and French on les cagots, it's a pretty safe bet that nothing's been published.

]]> Zannah http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944461 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944461 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:49:31 -0800 Comment by apttitle My guess is that you'll be looking in antiquarian book stores for this one.

Here's a clue:
http://www.fromoldbooks.org/Wood-NuttallEncyclopaedia/c/cagots.html

]]> apttitle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944462 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944462 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:49:55 -0800 Comment by kmonkey I think I remember something about them from the "Basque History of the Wold" by Mark Kurlansky. It's been a while since I read it, though.

The book might have some more info, and it's a good read.

]]> kmonkey http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944464 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944464 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:50:40 -0800 Comment by kmonkey @5 Oops, I mean "The Basque History of the World"

]]> kmonkey http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944465 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944465 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:52:40 -0800 Comment by Davida If you get can into JSTOR there's an article called The Cagots by a Dr. Hack Tuke.

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0959-5295(1880)9%3C376%3ATC%3E2.0.CO%3B2-6

If you know someone going to the UW, you can ask to use their netID to log into the library databases, and use JSTOR to get into it. It's not a whole book, but at a glance, it looks like what you might want.

]]> Davida http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944467 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944467 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:53:50 -0800 Comment by Heidi A search of the Library of Congress' catalog yields only titles in foreign languages.

]]> Heidi http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944468 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944468 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:55:41 -0800 Comment by apttitle The Basque suggestion seems to hold some water. Here's some more:

http://forum.stirpes.net/studies/9293-damned-lineages-who-were-agotes-cagots.html

]]> apttitle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944470 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944470 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:56:09 -0800 Comment by Jiberish http://www.iheu.org/node/2451

try this link

]]> Jiberish http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944473 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944473 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:58:02 -0800 Comment by Fnarf Have you looked at the Summit catalog at the UW, as well as their own? That'll get you a broader range of libraries. If you have a UW account you can look at OCLC WorldCat, which covers just about anything.

I think a better bet, since any English book solely about Cagots is by definition obscure and probably old, is to hit up a librarian, ideally one specializing in French and or medieval culture and history, for help finding more general books with sections on Cagots. You're going to have better luck at the UW on this, but even at SPL any encounter with a reference librarian is bound to be a good experience.

Librarians rock, and, contrary to widespread belief, helping people find stuff is like crack cocaine to them -- and the harder the search the bigger the rush.

It's not real clear to me after a casual search just WHAT the Cagots are -- are they really even an ethnic group? Are they Goths? Are the lepers? Are they Basques?

The only real interesting English link I can find quickly is http://www.iheu.org/node/2451 at the International Humanist and Ethical Union. He says the standard reference is Les cagots du Béarn (The Cagots of Béarn, Minerve, Paris,
1988) by A. Guerreau and Yves Guy. Maybe there are English histories of Bearn.

]]> Fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944490 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944490 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:04:49 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Try doing a search using Basque instead of France.

But I read most of my French history books, other than a few popular English ones, in the original French, if I can.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944521 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944521 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:23:11 -0800 Comment by SDizzle Librarians are sexy. Asking one is a good idea.

]]> SDizzle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944557 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944557 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:46:06 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle @13 - true, they are. Drop by Suzallo at the UW.

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944569 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944569 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 14:54:41 -0800 Comment by Postureduck This might help, a little. Or not.

http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0406&L=gothic-l&P=2841

]]> Postureduck http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944610 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944610 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:18:53 -0800 Comment by Abby I want the book that started off this search of yours. Sounds totally awesome. Once I finish my Slavic history...

]]> Abby http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944628 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944628 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:29:30 -0800 Comment by Fnarf Sure you do, Will. Sure you do.

]]> Fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944666 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944666 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:57:59 -0800 Comment by Jiberish this is really interesting. i will say that the leper and descendent of leper theory sounds more plausible than the arian or goth descendent version.

]]> Jiberish http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944673 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944673 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:02:07 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle Well, I used to write French plays and short SF stories, it's only the economics texts that slow me down.

(sigh, Americans who don't speak four languages are sooooo boring)

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944871 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944871 Books Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:30:23 -0800 Comment by kathleen i can only agree that librarians are sexy (being one myself), but i just looked up the library of congress subject heading, and all of the materials in OCLC are in french, spanish or basque....(OCLC searches a large majority of holdings not only in the US, but around the world)...

But I did turn up a masters thesis from the history and government dept at Mississippi on Medieval French leprosy:


Medieval French Leprosies

There's also a pamphlet at Oxford that's undated and non-circulating, but the next time you're there....

cheers!

]]> kathleen http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944958 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/what_i_want_to_know_about#c944958 Books Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:40:46 -0800