Comments on Unearthed While Cleaning Out My Office

And who gave you that pamphlet, Barnett?

Did Ann's picture tell you whether she would have endorsed Hillary?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_ann_richards

Erica is kinda hot! That's you on the left, correct?

Also, I gotta get me hands on a copy of Feminism & the Marxist Movement.

This is probably a result of reading too much Savage Love over the years, but the marxist feminist symbol looks really suggestive to me.

If that's your Monkees record, you just went up 1,000% in my estimation.

Looks like you could use a trip or forty to the gun range, ECB.

Mickey Dolans was the worst actor ever. The Monkees was the worst show ever.

Oh, and I said that with lovez!

You touched Ann??? Oh god, I HATE YOU NOW!!! God I am envious!!!

So will we being seeing you at Stranger Gun Night, ECB?

I only ask so that I know how much body armor to rent...

Gawd i miss ann richards. She definately has a prominant place on my "Helen Keller Memorial List of Super-Awesomest Ladies Ever".

Some day when the Hillary cultists are deprogrammed, they will regret trying to put words into the mouth of a revered dead woman. To understand and help them, it's important to sympathize with the cult member's present point of now, they cannot do wrong in the service of their cause. The part of their minds that could be used to question themselves has been temporarily shut down for the duration of their cult experience.

I have that Monkees boxed set, too : )

I unearthed the following video while cleaning all the crap out of YouTube this morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQ6DLwV9CI

Pretty cool, huh?

Hey! There's already a bunch of new crap on YouTube! Fuck! Guess I gotta get back to work...

Bellevue Ave, you misspelled "best". They're on Comcast In Demand right now. Great stuff -- and the best American music of the sixties.

I was just poking fun at ECB, elenchos--you're actively baiting....

Disc 2 of the Monkees set would be excellent to have on while cleaning.

I *WANT* that Monkees record.

@16 NapoleonXIV

I'm a very bad person. You have no idea how much I hate myself sometimes.

Does disc two have "The Porpoise Song" on it?

Why were you cleaning out your office? Going somewhere?

Man, you do have a big head.

Just so you know--You're the Reason We Can't Have Nice Things...

@7: wrong, wrong, wrong. @15: right!

@15,

FNARF is usually right on, but to rate the Monkees over the Beach Boys, the Byrds, the Band, Bob Dylan, Buffalo Springfield, Paul Butterfield, the Doors, the entire Stax/Volt catalog, the entire Motown catalog, the American artists in the Atlantic catalog, all of the great stuff that came out of the Muscle Shoals scene, etc etc etc as the best American music of the '60s is lunacy, pure and simple.

While you're at it - you may as well give that credit to Neil Diamond and Boyce and Hart, since they did most of the actual songwriting for the Monkees.

My faith in the rightness of the world has been seriously shaken.

Hold me.

@7 again: its Micky Dolenz by the way.

like Hillary crying when the chips are down, ECB softens her hard-edged image by displaying an affection for cheesy pop bands of the 1960's.

sniff.

Well, I'd take the Monkees over most of those, especially the intensely dull Mr. Butterfield and the flaccid pomposities of the Doors, neither of whom ever made a record worth hearing.

But, you know, at their peak the Monkees WERE the Beach Boys and the Byrds: Hal Blaine, Carol Kaye, Glen Campbell, and all those Wrecking Crew superstars played on the first Monkees records, just like they played on Pet Sounds, Sonny and Cher, and the first Byrds record, along with thousands more.

When people say "they didn't play their instruments", the best answer is "well, yes, they did, later; and early on the instruments were played by the best band in pop, so what's your point?" And when they say "but they didn't write their own songs", the best answer is "well, yes they did, later on, and early on their songs were written by the best songwriters in pop, so what's your point?"

Later Monkees is almost all self-written and self-played, and it's pretty solid, too (Don't overlook Mike Nesmith's quirky but excellent solo career, either).

If you want to say Motown -- which isn't a group, but a label, though similarly anchored by a great rhythm section that played on almost all the records -- is better, I could accept that. I don't prefer it, myself; I find Motown stuff to be uneven, and frequently a little thin, though I respect their achievement.

Stax/Volt is a different cup of tea -- and ANOTHER bedrock rhythm section, anchored by the godlike Al Jackson. If you want to take them, I'll let you; they were killer. But again, LABEL, not a group. Maybe Booker T. and the M.G.'s, then.

But I'll still take the Monkees in balance. The Beach Boys, for instance, get credit for their great moments -- the pinnacle of American pop -- but get heavily demoted for their crap moments, too, which are possibly its nadir. I mean, really, the Monkees didn't bring you Charles Manson....

Actually, if I had to pick, and didn't have to look at the charts, I'd go for The Free Design. Or maybe the Association/Millennium/Sagittarius axis....

If you're thinking you've been wound up, and I've got a pre-prepared argument here that I like to pull out for effect now and then, you'd be right about that, too. I just like to make sixties dumbasses's heads explode by contravening the Received Church of Rock, Rolling Stone Magazine Version....

Ann Richards + Rose Mofford = best beehives, pre-Winehouse era. Lady politicians take note!!

fnarf actually accused someone of flaccid pomposities. After a 500 word post defending The Monkees. Ha!

Don't get me wrong - I don't particularly hate the Monkees (and "You Just May Be the One" written by Mike Nesmith is probably my favorite song by them), but as a matter of personal opinion I'd say the Doors first record smokes anything the Monkees did, and wasn't the result of a bunch of industry hacks trying to cash in on a pop music phenomena by putting a rock band together by Hollywood committee.

(Also, Paul Butterfield was hugely influential - Mike Bloomfield was probably influenced as many or more guitarists as did old Slowhand himself up through the mid-late 60's - and he was a much better blues singer and harp player than, say, John Mayall on the UK side).

Don't lump me in w/Rolling Stone, btw - they absolutely hated Black Sabbath, who turned out to be more influential and enduring than any 10 of RS's pet bands (can you say Jefferson Airplane? Now there's a 60's band I used to enjoy that just doesn't hold up at all nowadays).

Sorry, but I will NEVER consider Neil Diamond the best songwriter in pop (and I've had to play "Sweet Caroline" onstage more often than a lot of people have had hot breakfasts).

Erica C. Barnett is to Naomi Klein what the Monkees were to the Beatles.

HAH!

Would you come to Stranger gun night, Mr. X?

Yeah, well, Mr. X, I reject the notion that guitarists are influential or interesting in any way, at least lead guitarists. And I didn't say Neil Diamond was the best; he wrote just the one song for them, and was just one of many. They drew from lots of the best songwriters of the day -- not just Boyce/Hart but Goffin/King, Diamond, Sedaka, etc.

As far as "studio hacks" go, the list includes most of the good musicians of the day, including not just the Wrecking Crew, including the Byrds and Neil Young. And, as I pointed out, those same studio hacks made most of the best LA records of the 60s, including Pet Sounds, so how bad can they be?

Oh, and heywhatsit @30 -- I can give you 5,000 words, or 50,000, on this topic if you want 'em. I'm just vamping; wait until you hear me solo.

@ 20: The Porpoise Song is on disc 3.

Fnarf, none of that contradicts anything i said about the Monkees being a terrible show and Dolenz being a terrible actor. they do the same shit in every episode and their jokes are rarely anything beyond terrible slapstick or bad puns. its almost like watching a bunch of middle schoolers do improv.

@21: Nope, not going anywhere. Everyone here cleaned up today.

I loved the Monkees, BA. They just kept monkeying around ...

I didn't say "studio hacks" (the Wrecking Crew were awesome) - I said "industry hacks", which I think you can agree is a VERY different thing (which, in this case, was a bunch of TV executives sitting around figuring out how to assemble a band and TV show to cash in on the success of the Beatles).

And guitarists (lead or otherwise) were never influential in rock. Right-O. You might want to take that one up with Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, and a host of other people who had NO influence whatsoever on rock music.

Rock - guitar = M.O.R (like, say, Neil Diamond, Neil Sedaka, Boyce and Hart, etc, etc, etc.). I won't dump on Carole King, though - as Tapestry is probably one of the best albums ever made (even if it is mostly a piano record!)

I'm in for gun night, Napoleon, though Wade's is a bit yuppie for my liking (it's truly a pity that you can't go shooting up Sultan Basin Road anymore - range rules are no fun).

I'm not opposed to guitars, just lead guitars. Noodling, you know. Pop music would be better off if Clapton had slammed his hands in a car door the day he went to the first Cream recording session. And I'll take any random MOR-ish Sunshine Pop track -- by the Peppermint Rainbow, say, or Twinn Connexxion -- over all of the white blues-based guitar solos ever recorded.

If you think Don Kirschner was bad, you need to read more about the other leading lights of the pop business. Scumbags all, with the exception of poor old Brian Epstein. The Brits were even worse than the Americans. Sure, the Monkees were cheese. Given the nature of pop, it's almost inevitable that they were. Same as it ever was.

BA, you say "terrible slapstick" like it's a bad thing.

Wow, I thought I was the only one who knew that much about the monkees, and owned that box set, but there's a whole world of you out there. (sniffles, tears, happy)

Here's why the Monkees rock: they had Mike Nesmith.

First of all, Mike produced *BOTH* "Repo Man" and "Tapeheads." Secondly, all the girls I ever really hit it off with thought Mike was the best of the Monkeys. It was a total Good Relationship Predictor.

If they were into Davy, though? Baaaaaaaad news.

Further proof about the Monkees, Mr. X: girls like 'em. In any pop situation, what the girls like will turn out to be better than what the boys like.

I still have humiliating memories of riding the bus in high school, with the girls up front shaking it to "Saturday Night's All Right For Fighting" -- a perfect diamond -- while us boys sat in the back trying to drown them out with our dreary "Bridge of Sighs" by Robin Trower -- numbskull guitarisms at their worst.

Fnarf, what works as comedy for a child, which you most likely were when the monkees were popular, doesnt work as an adult. do you really think that poor acting, poorly written scripts, poor excuses to play monkees songs really qualify for a good show?

and anyone who tries to play off the awfulness show as being campy fun is full of shit. they are too awful and lazy to be camp.

There's no such thing as a poor excuse to play a Monkees song.

BA-so don't watch it then? why the anger? what did the Monkees do to you? Fnarf-you are awesome.

@43 -- Well, yes, Sven, but that's because if they were into Davy, they were nine. Nine-year-olds are at least a couple of years away from being good girlfriend material.

any tv show that makes you feel like you ate half a sheet of acid when you watch it gets an A++ in my book. the terrible acting is just gravy.

@Fnarf

The Monkees were truly amazing for many reasons, I will agree to that. Jimmy Page is still a god, though.

Lisa, I dont watch it intentionally. I've seen quite a few episodes since RTN started up here. I think they are a prime example of how full of shit middle aged people are when they claim that the monkees were good at anything other than making money.

sorry, how full of shit middle age people are when they claim anything from their youth was good when all it was good for was making money.

The Monkees were to the Beatles what The Stranger is to Seattle Weekly.

BWAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!!

@40: These "industry hacks" you speak of were Bob Rafelson and Bert Schneider, who formed RayBert Productions and created The Monkees for Columbia Pictures. Rafelson went on to direct "Five Easy Pieces," Schneider produced "Easy Rider" and you can check the imdb to see what other things they've worked on. Paul Mazursky co-wrote the pilot episode.

Fnarf: I think Neil Diamond actually wrote 3 songs for The Monkees - "I'm a Believer," "Look Out," and "A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You."

Dammit, #54 should be credited to Mrs. Fnarf. I'm not trying to impersonate my husband.

another pleasant valley sunday...

mike nesmith was actually a decent musician.

The Monkees season one might have been a little formulaic, but they were clearly turned on by the time season two rolled around; they drove that show clear off a cliff in season two. A simple visit to "The Frodis Room" is clear evidence.

Oh, and I have the poster from that Monkees box set on the window in my office.

And now you know why I married her!

Monorail!

I would also like to point out that the JC Penney catalog circa 1967-68, which is what the Monkees were wearing in their show, is the pinnacle of fashion. Flowered shirts, giant buttons, and corduroy HO!

Ann Richards' and (presumably) ECB's heads look too big for their bodies here, don't they? Not a criticism, just an observation.

"In any pop situation, what the girls like will turn out to be better than what the boys like."

So Poison were better than Metallica, then?

Thanks FNARF and Mr. X. Your discussion illuminates that music from the USA in the 60's was, as they say in England, shite.

And The Band was from Canada, btw. Doesn't it just figure?

I think Erica is pretty.

@63: definitely. I mean, whose video would you rather watch? Metallica are such incredibly dull plodders. Poison are at least funny. If you can't be funny, it doesn't matter how fast your fingers move. Nothing has killed more music than excessive seriousness.

Not that I would want to spend any time listening to either of their records.

A fun fact for #57--"The Frodis Room" was directed by Mickey Dolenz.

Thank you for your defense of Monkee love, Fnarf. I now invite Bellevue Ave to watch Head.

Ah, now I know why Erica is so into 40 year old Feminist thought.

She has no tits and looks like she shops at Ross.

It's easier to think that she can't get laid because men are pigs vs the fact that she is physically unattractive.

@65

Yes, she is. But don't let that make you think she's any less dangerous.

@68

I think the very reason you have yet to reveal yourself is because you're not physically unattractive, you're fucking hideous.

Erica is teh hotness.

That is pretty sexist Poe. I am sure the Erica is deeply offended that you think that she is hot, or that being hot is a good thing.

Thats what her womyn studies professor told her.

Oh Ecce, you of all people should know how silly your theory is. You're the sloppiest tranvestite I know, yet you always get laid when you wear your schoolgirl outfit to Hollywood Video.

And remember that year when you decided that you were going to "live as a woman"? You had dates morning, noon and night!

Of course, you were in Alaska, and it was the 70's. (Fun Fact: Ecce followed the work camps for the Trans-Alaska pipeline!) That might have had something to do with it.

@66 - for an otherwise thoughtful guy, FNARF has really vapid taste in music.

A fun fact for #57 & #67 - it's called "The Frodis Caper." It's also more notable for it being the episode that ends with Tim Buckley performing "Song To The Siren". Which was done at Mickey's behest. And which should also put a sock in the mouths of those who seem to want to deny them any level of "cred".