Slog - Comments on Unearthed While Cleaning Out My Office

Comment by Josh Feit

Josh Feit — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:52:53 -0800

And who gave you that pamphlet, Barnett?

Comment by mistermix

mistermix — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:53:21 -0800

Did Ann's picture tell you whether she would have endorsed Hillary?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_ann_richards

Comment by Mike in MO

Mike in MO — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:54:41 -0800

Erica is kinda hot! That's you on the left, correct?

Also, I gotta get me hands on a copy of Feminism & the Marxist Movement.

Comment by oljb

oljb — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:56:12 -0800

This is probably a result of reading too much Savage Love over the years, but the marxist feminist symbol looks really suggestive to me.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:57:21 -0800

If that's your Monkees record, you just went up 1,000% in my estimation.

Comment by Mr. Poe

Mr. Poe — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:59:12 -0800

Looks like you could use a trip or forty to the gun range, ECB.

Comment by Bellevue Ave

Bellevue Ave — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:59:36 -0800

Mickey Dolans was the worst actor ever. The Monkees was the worst show ever.

Comment by Mr. Poe

Mr. Poe — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:59:48 -0800

Oh, and I said that with lovez!

Comment by Andrew

Andrew — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:01:44 -0800

You touched Ann??? Oh god, I HATE YOU NOW!!! God I am envious!!!

Comment by NapoleonXIV

NapoleonXIV — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:09:55 -0800

So will we being seeing you at Stranger Gun Night, ECB?

I only ask so that I know how much body armor to rent...

Comment by longball

longball — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:12:34 -0800

Gawd i miss ann richards. She definately has a prominant place on my "Helen Keller Memorial List of Super-Awesomest Ladies Ever".

Comment by elenchos

elenchos — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:18:12 -0800

Some day when the Hillary cultists are deprogrammed, they will regret trying to put words into the mouth of a revered dead woman. To understand and help them, it's important to sympathize with the cult member's present point of now, they cannot do wrong in the service of their cause. The part of their minds that could be used to question themselves has been temporarily shut down for the duration of their cult experience.

Comment by Dread

Dread — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:19:04 -0800

I have that Monkees boxed set, too : )

Comment by Grover Cleveland

Grover Cleveland — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:19:05 -0800

I unearthed the following video while cleaning all the crap out of YouTube this morning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCQ6DLwV9CI

Pretty cool, huh?

Hey! There's already a bunch of new crap on YouTube! Fuck! Guess I gotta get back to work...

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:22:43 -0800

Bellevue Ave, you misspelled "best". They're on Comcast In Demand right now. Great stuff -- and the best American music of the sixties.

Comment by NapoleonXIV

NapoleonXIV — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:26:43 -0800

I was just poking fun at ECB, elenchos--you're actively baiting....

Comment by madamecrow

madamecrow — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:29:09 -0800

Disc 2 of the Monkees set would be excellent to have on while cleaning.

Comment by NaFun

NaFun — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:32:04 -0800

I *WANT* that Monkees record.

Comment by elenchos

elenchos — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:33:48 -0800

@16 NapoleonXIV

I'm a very bad person. You have no idea how much I hate myself sometimes.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:34:07 -0800

Does disc two have "The Porpoise Song" on it?

Comment by Gabe Global

Gabe Global — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:37:09 -0800

Why were you cleaning out your office? Going somewhere?

Comment by Samson

Samson — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:40:39 -0800

Man, you do have a big head.

Comment by NapoleonXIV

NapoleonXIV — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:40:54 -0800

Just so you know--You're the Reason We Can't Have Nice Things...

Comment by Carla

Carla — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:42:26 -0800

@7: wrong, wrong, wrong. @15: right!

Comment by Mr. X

Mr. X — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:42:32 -0800

@15,

FNARF is usually right on, but to rate the Monkees over the Beach Boys, the Byrds, the Band, Bob Dylan, Buffalo Springfield, Paul Butterfield, the Doors, the entire Stax/Volt catalog, the entire Motown catalog, the American artists in the Atlantic catalog, all of the great stuff that came out of the Muscle Shoals scene, etc etc etc as the best American music of the '60s is lunacy, pure and simple.

While you're at it - you may as well give that credit to Neil Diamond and Boyce and Hart, since they did most of the actual songwriting for the Monkees.

My faith in the rightness of the world has been seriously shaken.

Hold me.

Comment by Carla

Carla — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:47:09 -0800

@7 again: its Micky Dolenz by the way.

Comment by michael strangeways

michael strangeways — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 14:56:01 -0800

like Hillary crying when the chips are down, ECB softens her hard-edged image by displaying an affection for cheesy pop bands of the 1960's.

sniff.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:01:21 -0800

Well, I'd take the Monkees over most of those, especially the intensely dull Mr. Butterfield and the flaccid pomposities of the Doors, neither of whom ever made a record worth hearing.

But, you know, at their peak the Monkees WERE the Beach Boys and the Byrds: Hal Blaine, Carol Kaye, Glen Campbell, and all those Wrecking Crew superstars played on the first Monkees records, just like they played on Pet Sounds, Sonny and Cher, and the first Byrds record, along with thousands more.

When people say "they didn't play their instruments", the best answer is "well, yes, they did, later; and early on the instruments were played by the best band in pop, so what's your point?" And when they say "but they didn't write their own songs", the best answer is "well, yes they did, later on, and early on their songs were written by the best songwriters in pop, so what's your point?"

Later Monkees is almost all self-written and self-played, and it's pretty solid, too (Don't overlook Mike Nesmith's quirky but excellent solo career, either).

If you want to say Motown -- which isn't a group, but a label, though similarly anchored by a great rhythm section that played on almost all the records -- is better, I could accept that. I don't prefer it, myself; I find Motown stuff to be uneven, and frequently a little thin, though I respect their achievement.

Stax/Volt is a different cup of tea -- and ANOTHER bedrock rhythm section, anchored by the godlike Al Jackson. If you want to take them, I'll let you; they were killer. But again, LABEL, not a group. Maybe Booker T. and the M.G.'s, then.

But I'll still take the Monkees in balance. The Beach Boys, for instance, get credit for their great moments -- the pinnacle of American pop -- but get heavily demoted for their crap moments, too, which are possibly its nadir. I mean, really, the Monkees didn't bring you Charles Manson....

Actually, if I had to pick, and didn't have to look at the charts, I'd go for The Free Design. Or maybe the Association/Millennium/Sagittarius axis....

If you're thinking you've been wound up, and I've got a pre-prepared argument here that I like to pull out for effect now and then, you'd be right about that, too. I just like to make sixties dumbasses's heads explode by contravening the Received Church of Rock, Rolling Stone Magazine Version....

Comment by Beehives get votes

Beehives get votes — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:03:22 -0800

Ann Richards + Rose Mofford = best beehives, pre-Winehouse era. Lady politicians take note!!

Comment by heywhatsit

heywhatsit — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:09:02 -0800

fnarf actually accused someone of flaccid pomposities. After a 500 word post defending The Monkees. Ha!

Comment by Mr. X

Mr. X — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:18:46 -0800

Don't get me wrong - I don't particularly hate the Monkees (and "You Just May Be the One" written by Mike Nesmith is probably my favorite song by them), but as a matter of personal opinion I'd say the Doors first record smokes anything the Monkees did, and wasn't the result of a bunch of industry hacks trying to cash in on a pop music phenomena by putting a rock band together by Hollywood committee.

(Also, Paul Butterfield was hugely influential - Mike Bloomfield was probably influenced as many or more guitarists as did old Slowhand himself up through the mid-late 60's - and he was a much better blues singer and harp player than, say, John Mayall on the UK side).

Don't lump me in w/Rolling Stone, btw - they absolutely hated Black Sabbath, who turned out to be more influential and enduring than any 10 of RS's pet bands (can you say Jefferson Airplane? Now there's a 60's band I used to enjoy that just doesn't hold up at all nowadays).

Sorry, but I will NEVER consider Neil Diamond the best songwriter in pop (and I've had to play "Sweet Caroline" onstage more often than a lot of people have had hot breakfasts).

Comment by Paddy O'Furniture

Paddy O'Furniture — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:19:29 -0800

Erica C. Barnett is to Naomi Klein what the Monkees were to the Beatles.

HAH!

Comment by NapoleonXIV

NapoleonXIV — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:23:36 -0800

Would you come to Stranger gun night, Mr. X?

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:30:22 -0800

Yeah, well, Mr. X, I reject the notion that guitarists are influential or interesting in any way, at least lead guitarists. And I didn't say Neil Diamond was the best; he wrote just the one song for them, and was just one of many. They drew from lots of the best songwriters of the day -- not just Boyce/Hart but Goffin/King, Diamond, Sedaka, etc.

As far as "studio hacks" go, the list includes most of the good musicians of the day, including not just the Wrecking Crew, including the Byrds and Neil Young. And, as I pointed out, those same studio hacks made most of the best LA records of the 60s, including Pet Sounds, so how bad can they be?

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:32:38 -0800

Oh, and heywhatsit @30 -- I can give you 5,000 words, or 50,000, on this topic if you want 'em. I'm just vamping; wait until you hear me solo.

Comment by ECB

ECB — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:35:18 -0800

@ 20: The Porpoise Song is on disc 3.

Comment by Bellevue Ave

Bellevue Ave — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:37:37 -0800

Fnarf, none of that contradicts anything i said about the Monkees being a terrible show and Dolenz being a terrible actor. they do the same shit in every episode and their jokes are rarely anything beyond terrible slapstick or bad puns. its almost like watching a bunch of middle schoolers do improv.

Comment by ECB

ECB — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:38:00 -0800

@21: Nope, not going anywhere. Everyone here cleaned up today.

Comment by Will in Seattle

Will in Seattle — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:38:59 -0800

I loved the Monkees, BA. They just kept monkeying around ...

Comment by Mr. X

Mr. X — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:40:32 -0800

I didn't say "studio hacks" (the Wrecking Crew were awesome) - I said "industry hacks", which I think you can agree is a VERY different thing (which, in this case, was a bunch of TV executives sitting around figuring out how to assemble a band and TV show to cash in on the success of the Beatles).

And guitarists (lead or otherwise) were never influential in rock. Right-O. You might want to take that one up with Chuck Berry, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, and a host of other people who had NO influence whatsoever on rock music.

Rock - guitar = M.O.R (like, say, Neil Diamond, Neil Sedaka, Boyce and Hart, etc, etc, etc.). I won't dump on Carole King, though - as Tapestry is probably one of the best albums ever made (even if it is mostly a piano record!)

I'm in for gun night, Napoleon, though Wade's is a bit yuppie for my liking (it's truly a pity that you can't go shooting up Sultan Basin Road anymore - range rules are no fun).

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:49:51 -0800

I'm not opposed to guitars, just lead guitars. Noodling, you know. Pop music would be better off if Clapton had slammed his hands in a car door the day he went to the first Cream recording session. And I'll take any random MOR-ish Sunshine Pop track -- by the Peppermint Rainbow, say, or Twinn Connexxion -- over all of the white blues-based guitar solos ever recorded.

If you think Don Kirschner was bad, you need to read more about the other leading lights of the pop business. Scumbags all, with the exception of poor old Brian Epstein. The Brits were even worse than the Americans. Sure, the Monkees were cheese. Given the nature of pop, it's almost inevitable that they were. Same as it ever was.

BA, you say "terrible slapstick" like it's a bad thing.

Comment by Jon e. Rock

Jon e. Rock — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:51:46 -0800

Wow, I thought I was the only one who knew that much about the monkees, and owned that box set, but there's a whole world of you out there. (sniffles, tears, happy)

Comment by Big Sven

Big Sven — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:55:49 -0800

Here's why the Monkees rock: they had Mike Nesmith.

First of all, Mike produced *BOTH* "Repo Man" and "Tapeheads." Secondly, all the girls I ever really hit it off with thought Mike was the best of the Monkeys. It was a total Good Relationship Predictor.

If they were into Davy, though? Baaaaaaaad news.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:59:06 -0800

Further proof about the Monkees, Mr. X: girls like 'em. In any pop situation, what the girls like will turn out to be better than what the boys like.

I still have humiliating memories of riding the bus in high school, with the girls up front shaking it to "Saturday Night's All Right For Fighting" -- a perfect diamond -- while us boys sat in the back trying to drown them out with our dreary "Bridge of Sighs" by Robin Trower -- numbskull guitarisms at their worst.

Comment by Bellevue Ave

Bellevue Ave — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:03:00 -0800

Fnarf, what works as comedy for a child, which you most likely were when the monkees were popular, doesnt work as an adult. do you really think that poor acting, poorly written scripts, poor excuses to play monkees songs really qualify for a good show?

and anyone who tries to play off the awfulness show as being campy fun is full of shit. they are too awful and lazy to be camp.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:06:59 -0800

There's no such thing as a poor excuse to play a Monkees song.

Comment by Lisa

Lisa — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:07:51 -0800

BA-so don't watch it then? why the anger? what did the Monkees do to you? Fnarf-you are awesome.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:09:23 -0800

@43 -- Well, yes, Sven, but that's because if they were into Davy, they were nine. Nine-year-olds are at least a couple of years away from being good girlfriend material.

Comment by brandon

brandon — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:12:01 -0800

any tv show that makes you feel like you ate half a sheet of acid when you watch it gets an A++ in my book. the terrible acting is just gravy.

Comment by NaFun

NaFun — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:12:40 -0800

@Fnarf

The Monkees were truly amazing for many reasons, I will agree to that. Jimmy Page is still a god, though.

Comment by Bellevue Ave

Bellevue Ave — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:15:51 -0800

Lisa, I dont watch it intentionally. I've seen quite a few episodes since RTN started up here. I think they are a prime example of how full of shit middle aged people are when they claim that the monkees were good at anything other than making money.

Comment by Bellevue Ave

Bellevue Ave — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:18:23 -0800

sorry, how full of shit middle age people are when they claim anything from their youth was good when all it was good for was making money.

Comment by Oswald MaGumm

Oswald MaGumm — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:20:57 -0800

The Monkees were to the Beatles what The Stranger is to Seattle Weekly.

BWAAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!!

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:29:01 -0800

@40: These "industry hacks" you speak of were Bob Rafelson and Bert Schneider, who formed RayBert Productions and created The Monkees for Columbia Pictures. Rafelson went on to direct "Five Easy Pieces," Schneider produced "Easy Rider" and you can check the imdb to see what other things they've worked on. Paul Mazursky co-wrote the pilot episode.

Fnarf: I think Neil Diamond actually wrote 3 songs for The Monkees - "I'm a Believer," "Look Out," and "A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You."

Comment by Mrs. Fnarf

Mrs. Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:32:15 -0800

Dammit, #54 should be credited to Mrs. Fnarf. I'm not trying to impersonate my husband.

Comment by SeMe

SeMe — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:35:05 -0800

another pleasant valley sunday...

mike nesmith was actually a decent musician.

Comment by Scotto

Scotto — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:40:18 -0800

The Monkees season one might have been a little formulaic, but they were clearly turned on by the time season two rolled around; they drove that show clear off a cliff in season two. A simple visit to "The Frodis Room" is clear evidence.

Comment by Scotto

Scotto — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:41:33 -0800

Oh, and I have the poster from that Monkees box set on the window in my office.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:44:50 -0800

And now you know why I married her!

Comment by CP

CP — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:48:09 -0800

Monorail!

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:48:10 -0800

I would also like to point out that the JC Penney catalog circa 1967-68, which is what the Monkees were wearing in their show, is the pinnacle of fashion. Flowered shirts, giant buttons, and corduroy HO!

Comment by homage to me

homage to me — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:50:46 -0800

Ann Richards' and (presumably) ECB's heads look too big for their bodies here, don't they? Not a criticism, just an observation.

Comment by Mr. X

Mr. X — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:11:27 -0800

"In any pop situation, what the girls like will turn out to be better than what the boys like."

So Poison were better than Metallica, then?

Comment by BB

BB — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:14:27 -0800

Thanks FNARF and Mr. X. Your discussion illuminates that music from the USA in the 60's was, as they say in England, shite.

And The Band was from Canada, btw. Doesn't it just figure?

Comment by catalina vel-duray

catalina vel-duray — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:18:26 -0800

I think Erica is pretty.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:24:12 -0800

@63: definitely. I mean, whose video would you rather watch? Metallica are such incredibly dull plodders. Poison are at least funny. If you can't be funny, it doesn't matter how fast your fingers move. Nothing has killed more music than excessive seriousness.

Not that I would want to spend any time listening to either of their records.

Comment by madamecrow

madamecrow — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 17:44:32 -0800

A fun fact for #57--"The Frodis Room" was directed by Mickey Dolenz.

Thank you for your defense of Monkee love, Fnarf. I now invite Bellevue Ave to watch Head.

Comment by ecce homo

ecce homo — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:19:15 -0800

Ah, now I know why Erica is so into 40 year old Feminist thought.

She has no tits and looks like she shops at Ross.

It's easier to think that she can't get laid because men are pigs vs the fact that she is physically unattractive.

Comment by elenchos

elenchos — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:22:36 -0800

@65

Yes, she is. But don't let that make you think she's any less dangerous.

Comment by Mr. Poe

Mr. Poe — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:48:08 -0800

@68

I think the very reason you have yet to reveal yourself is because you're not physically unattractive, you're fucking hideous.

Erica is teh hotness.

Comment by ecce homo

ecce homo — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:58:01 -0800

That is pretty sexist Poe. I am sure the Erica is deeply offended that you think that she is hot, or that being hot is a good thing.

Thats what her womyn studies professor told her.

Comment by catalina vel-duray

catalina vel-duray — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 20:25:20 -0800

Oh Ecce, you of all people should know how silly your theory is. You're the sloppiest tranvestite I know, yet you always get laid when you wear your schoolgirl outfit to Hollywood Video.

And remember that year when you decided that you were going to "live as a woman"? You had dates morning, noon and night!

Of course, you were in Alaska, and it was the 70's. (Fun Fact: Ecce followed the work camps for the Trans-Alaska pipeline!) That might have had something to do with it.

Comment by The Rocker

The Rocker — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:59:38 -0800

@66 - for an otherwise thoughtful guy, FNARF has really vapid taste in music.

Comment by Mr. Webster

Mr. Webster — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:05:43 -0800

A fun fact for #57 & #67 - it's called "The Frodis Caper." It's also more notable for it being the episode that ends with Tim Buckley performing "Song To The Siren". Which was done at Mickey's behest. And which should also put a sock in the mouths of those who seem to want to deny them any level of "cred".