Comments on The Cloverfield Caucus

Same thing on my part of Capitol Hill; giant lines, rooms that are too small and bad ventillation.

I gotta say though... having too many people show up for something like this is a good problem to have.

Same thing going on at Madrona Elementary. I ended up leaving after putting down my preference, because I'm lazy and I wanted to make space for the people waiting outside.

The problem will solve itself, crk: Lots of folks who showed up today were swearing that they wouldn't be back in 2012.

clusterfuck at the library too. The Wa dems website was sending 2544 to one place and the 43rd dems website was sending people to the "right" place. There are like 500 people here and nobody knows what they're doing.

The caucus site at Mt. Zion Baptist on 19th and Madison is out of control. At 1pm the line was stretching all the way down the block. It was like waiting in line to get into Memorial stadium during Bumbershoot-- seemed like it could be close to 1500 people like at Steven's.

They actually ran out of sign-in sheets and have started hand writing new ones using the backs of sheets already filled out and are telling people that they don't have to stay, just sign in and they'll count that.

What a clusterfuck.

I too came from the mob scene at Madrona Elementary. Crazy. Plus I spoke with several people this week who couldn't attend today due to work schedules. If the Democratic party is for everyone, they need to change to a primary, not just those privileged enough to have this afternoon off.

"Lots of folks who showed up today were swearing that they wouldn't be back in 2012."

Our place was pretty well organized. Busy and hot, but organized. I didn't hear anybody say something like that. I think after yesterdays turnout at the key arena a lot of people figured things would be busy and planned for it.

The question is, those people swearing they wouldn't be back - did they mean "Screw you, I'm not voting in 2012" or "this sucks and needs to change"?

A lot of people, including myself up to a few weeks ago, just don't understand how this whole process works. They very naturally assume these are government run, and government regulated things when in reality these are just two very large private clubs running their own internal elections.

Of course, typing that, I'd think most people who turn out at a caucus at least somewhat understand it or they'd be mailing in their state election ballot instead.

My point... hopefully "we wont be back in 2012" is a pissed of version of "this sucks and needs to change". It does need to change :-)

I do think it is pretty nervy of people to bitch like that though... nobody, I think, foresaw this many people turning out.

Same problem over here in Minnesota. Caucuses across the state were such a mess this week - with a good chunk of counties not even bothering to turn in their information - that they're introducing legislation to turn us over to a primary system.

The caucus system sounds great in theory, but it's just horribly outdated. I have yet to hear from someone (in ANY state) who came back from theirs with a positive review.

Let me rephrase what I originally said...

There were "competing" state primaries, crashed websites, inaccurate caucus location information, inaccurate times and dates, having to go to a physical location, having to stand in line, stuffy rooms, missing flags, lack of sign up sheets, and so much more. Yet, despite all these very significant hurdles, people showed up in what I guess are record numbers. *That*, Dan, is a very good problem to have.

I'm in agreement with you, primaries would make much more sense... That having been said though, I kinda had a blast at my caucus! Maybe I'm just a weirdo, but being jam packed in some baptist church with all of my neighbors totally got me excited about what's going on right now. Seeing SO many people who give a fuck put a giant smile on my face and made my week. It is certainly good for my brain, which is constantly fighting the urge to be old and jaded. Maybe I'm just a weirdo!

This is my third caucus and I like it this way. Chaos is fun. People can stay home in 2012 if they don't want their vote counted. That said, I did leave as soon as I found out how the trend was going - my wife is sick and couldn't hang around any longer.

I think it was Will Rogers who said, "I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

FYI, Obama just took Kansas by a HUGE margin (74%), as did Fuckabee (60%).

I'm confused, I thought you and the family were going to skip the caucus to go snowboarding.

Clusterfuck is the best way to describe it. The Democrats you are running this bullshit need to be kicked out! And the fact that millions were wasted sending out ballots that don't count is really fucked up. I just got back from Ardmore Elementary, what a mess!! Talk about the unwashed masses, man did that gym stink!

THANK YOU, Dan. My sentiments exactly. The marginal utility of a caucus over a vote isn't enough to justify the hassle. The Democrats prove nothing good by insisting on a caucus.

It was packed at Whitter Elementary in Ballard. A couple hundred people down the block when I got there, and still a big line when I finally got in. Definitely overcrowded with some logistical issues, but nobody seemed as pissy as Dan or others on this board.

Our neighborhood (36-2167) voted 39 for Obama, 12 for Clinton, and 1 undecided, which translated to 4 delegates for Obama and 1 for Clinton.

Clinton voters tended to be older and male (in our neighborhood anyway). Obama voters ran the spectrum, except racially since Ballard is lily-white.

agreed- more locations, less confusion. i was told by the WA Dems site to go to the library, only to be re-routed to 19th/Aloha- then found out with several strangers that there were two Alohas, side by side!

at the caucus, with only minutes remaining to sign in, it was madness. most people, including myself, were not sure in which line to stand. it was hot and stuffy.

i was really pretty keen on seeing how the whole thing played out, as i've never caucused before, but after spending just a few minutes in that room, i was ready to get the hell out. so i did.

Isn't anybody concerned that the caucus system essentially disenfranchizes the elderly and infirm, the working classes (who are way too busy working trying to make ends meet) and, oh, pretty much anyone who hasn't got several hours to spare? This system pretty much ensures that students, the time-rich (ie the rich) and people with nothing better to do choose our candidate. As an educated, white 30 something male who earns > $200,000 I am disgusted that the Democratic Party, allegedly the party of those whose voices aren't heard, have endorsed a system that practically silences their core demographic. Fairness and opportunity for the weakest in our society are the reasons I'm a Democrat and not a Republican. I'm not seeing much of either in this system that favours the educated elite who vote overwhelmingly for a candidate of questionable capabilities because they can afford to take a risk. Right now, we need to vote for a candidate with the ability to actually bring about change instead of just talking about it. We need to vote for Hillary Clinton precisely because we are Democrats, and we care too much for the less fortunate to take risks with their future. Hillary 08!

The message today was this: We can't run a caucus for shit--now let us run the government, okay?

Doesn't inspire confidence. And they can't argue that high turnout was unexpected.

Good god, Dan. All it needs is to be tweaked, not fucking thrown out.

Instead of one big room, use classrooms for each precinct. I come from MN (hi, Hannah!) and in Eden Prairie that's how they always did it. No pandamonium, and people actually were able to meet and socialize with their fellow Democrats.

It was very crowded at Briarcrest Elementary School, in Shoreline. Hot and stuffy, but fairly well-organized. After the hectoring round, my neighborhood ended up having 4 delegates for Obama and 1 for Clinton.

The speaker at the beginning messed up the Pledge of Allegiance (which cracked up the room). Oh, that would've made a good news clip for the Republicans. Everything they say about Democrats is true!

We didn't deal with the Pledge, we were too busy dealing with sign-up sheets, etc.

I noticed that the older ones in our precinct who have caucused before (myself included) mostly stood aside and let the young ones try to figure it all out. I guess we could have been more proactive and helped things be a bit more organized, but in the end the kids worked it all out. (Four years ago I think the math was done by hand, today cell phones were used. Can't the Party supply calculators?)

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/article.print?id=4101

In the above link are happy(these people are happy?) Indians in the actual "worlds largest democracy," not wearing North Face parkas and bitching about standing in line. They are worried about eating, and feeding their children. And they are proud to vote by the way. So, Democrats! For an hour of two of chaos, you can get your Starbucks later, and maybe keep the US from getting in the same shape.
No wonder the third world kicks our ass. Whiners galore!

Dan, For once, chill. Caucuses do build community, in a big way. "Put us through this?" Wow. Kevin

The caucus system has problems, but in the end it is a good process for a political party to pick a nominee because it rewards enthusiasm, organization and dedication. In my humble opinion, a primary is too antiseptic and anonymous for a nominating contest. If we are Democrats and we care about who our nominee is or might be, then it should require a little bit of effort on our part.

Just returned from my neighborhood caucus at the presb. church. Lots of people (way beyond normal) in a good mood going about the business of being involved. Despite the numbers no real hassels and no one in a pissy Dan Savage mood. Our precint went with 66+ votes for Obama, 12 for Clinton, and 3 undecided. I left at that point but it looked like 6 delegates for Obama, and 1 for Clinton. Not sure where the other 1 went since I couldn't hear with the noise of a large crowd. A great turnout!

I just came from my caucus at TOP Elementary. I met a lot of my neighbors, listened to intelligent discourse on the candidates, laughed at the confusion, and had a good time. It's not perfect -- a primary, the ability to mail in a ballot, would be better --but I genuinely felt involved in a way I haven't ever felt before. I'll repeat, it's not perfect. But seeing the purpose through the confusion inspired me to stay involved. What's the freaking alternative? Watching television?

The caucus system has problems, but in the end it is a good process for a political party to pick a nominee because it rewards enthusiasm, organization and dedication. In my humble opinion, a primary is too antiseptic and anonymous for a nominating contest. If we are Democrats and we care about who our nominee is or might be, then it should require a little bit of effort on our part.

Up in Wallingford at the John Stanford School (also in the 43rd), we had a lot more voters than we had at the 2004 caucus, but everything went very smoothly--great work by our PCOs and others.

It helps to volunteer!

Bitch bitch, moan moan. Fucking grow a pair Dan.

Your post is ripe with cynicism, particularly the "The caucus system is supposed to build community, or something, since we’re all supposed to gather together with our neighbors and talk about who we’re supporting and why, and make appeals to the braindeads—excuse me, the undecideds—blah blah blah. But the only thing neighbors at Stevens are discussing right now is what a bullshit waste of time this is"

section.

To be fair, turnout was significantly greater than expected, predominantly because of the expected impact of Super Tuesday. So give the King Co. Dems a break. If the past two national elections have shown us anything it's that voting is hardly a science. They're doing the best they can, and while its good for you and us to use forums like Slog to voice our opinions on how to make them better, save the cynical, holier-than-thou snobbery for the column and defending your initial support of the Iraq war.

I, for one, thought caucusing was great, despite the hour of relative discomfort. I wouldn't be opposed to a primary, and it totally makes sense for a state w/ a population like like CA, NY, IL or TX. However, I'm proud that WA democrats decided to hold a caucus to select it's delegates.

Just returned from my neighborhood caucus at the presb. church. Lots of people (way beyond normal) in a good mood going about the business of being involved. Despite the numbers no real hassels and no one in a pissy Dan Savage mood. Our precint went with 66+ votes for Obama, 12 for Clinton, and 3 undecided. I left at that point but it looked like 6 delegates for Obama, and 1 for Clinton. Not sure where the other 1 went since I couldn't hear with the noise of a large crowd. A great turnout!

This system pretty much ensures that students, the time-rich (ie the rich) and people with nothing better to do choose our candidate.

Heh, guess who runs the Democratic Party?

"Doesn't inspire confidence. And they can't argue that high turnout was unexpected."

Well.. maybe you should hop the fence and vote republican then, I hear their system is a bit more sane compared to ours. The democratic party is a private club and if you dont like the club rules, work your way up the club's org chart and try to change the rules from the inside.

People dont have much space to bitch honestly, if they have a problem with how it was organized, they should be more active in the club. Maybe volenteer next time, work on our parties busted ass website, find a better location for us to meet at.

Do you stand in front of elks club meetings and bitch about how they elect their leaders too?

@12:

Yeah, we used to use a similar version of that when I was on the executive council in the 32nd back in the day,"the term 'Democratic Party Organization' is an oxymoron, like 'military intelligence'."

@15:

In all fairness, the primary was pushed through by the State, not the party, IIRC. The Dems have been on record for quite some time as saying they didn't intend to use primary results to select delegates.

And guess what folks, democracy-in-action IS messy. The thing I like about the caucus system is that it allows people to directly participate in the process: you go, you meet your neighbors, you discuss and debate, you vote, and then some of you decide to represent your precinct at the county caucus, where the whole thing is repeated, and then again at the state level.

People actually have to put in some effort in a caucus process, and that I believe makes it more representative to those who choose to put in the extra time.

And really, despite some of the flaws mentioned above, how much actual time out of most of your busy, busy lives did this take? Half an hour? A full hour? My goodness! Such an inconvenience, just for the opportunity to have a direct voice in determining something so boring as the future political direction of our nation!

I just came from my caucus at TOP Elementary. I met a lot of my neighbors, listened to intelligent discourse on the candidates, laughed at the confusion, and had a good time. It's not perfect -- a primary, the ability to mail in a ballot, would be better --but I genuinely felt involved in a way I haven't ever felt before. I'll repeat, it's not perfect. But seeing the purpose through the confusion inspired me to stay involved. Whining about the problem helps nobody unless you volunteer to make it better. Democracy takes involvement and work.

This system pretty much ensures that students, the time-rich (ie the rich) and people with nothing better to do choose our candidate.

Heh, guess who runs the Democratic Party?

I just returned from one of the Kenmore caucuses - my first - and yes, it was hot and noisy and crowded and.....well, a lot of fun.

Dan, if you are just tooooo important and busy to participate - don't.

I agree with Dan. My wants:
1. one room per precinct
2. let people download a signup sheet that they can fill out before they arrive
3. let people know they can drop off their sheet and leave early
4. count the primary too

I totally agree with Dan about abolishing the caucuses that effectively disenfranchise senior citizens with transportation problems, working people, and the housebound and/or handicapped.

How do you imagine national election day would be if everyone who wanted to vote HAD TO SHOW UP AT 1 PM ON TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 4TH?

Then there is the nicety of a secret ballot.

Go to an all-day Tuesday primary (with mail-in ballots)set in February.

At Trinity Lutheran all went well because of Catherine Claiborne and Sen. Ed Murray officiating. However, as late as this morning, the Dem website still indicated my precinct (43-2034) was at SAAM. Wrong! Three precincts were changed to Trinity Lutheran and it looked like a segment of "Amazing Race" as caucusers (sic) fled downhill to Broadway.

I'm with Dan on this one. I've got three kids, and they're too young to drag into a stuffy room and make them and YOU miserable.

I've had my mind made up for months, so why do I have such a narrow window to make that known? A mail-in primary would be more fair.

I participate in the community in many different ways. I was a delegate in my congressional district for 2004 (which was excrutiating as local pols gave their reelection speeches to a captive audience, as issue after niggling issue was debated for hours, and anyone who had a bone to pick was allowed to stand at the mike and vent while the rest of us sank into a low-blood-sugar coma). Democracy in action, indeed.

Ridiculous, long lines and packed-passed-capacity-standing-room-only rooms at Madrona Elementary. My precinct voted 6 to Obama and 1 to Hillary (almost identical to other reports here).

I'm a delegate. Wee hoo!

My mom caucused in her small town in Nebraska today. She said she didn't really want people to know she is a Democrat -- it just makes life a little harder in a red state like that. My mother in law here in Seattle grew up in Nazi Germany and is afraid to be seen supporting a candidate in public, even this liberal town, so she stayed home.

I semi-enjoyed my caucus here in Ballard but real democracy requires a secret ballot. You simply cannot allow voters to be afraid to say what they think.

My mom caucused in her small town in Nebraska today. She said she didn't really want people to know she is a Democrat -- it just makes life a little harder in a red state like that. My mother in law here in Seattle grew up in Nazi Germany and is afraid to be seen supporting a candidate in public, even this liberal town, so she stayed home.

I semi-enjoyed my caucus here in Ballard but real democracy requires a secret ballot. You simply cannot allow voters to be afraid to say what they think.

I agree with Dan - just make it a primary, so we can easily just vote, and be reasonably assured that our vote won't be lost in the shuffle (or manipulated - am I the only one who's weirded out that the people who count the votes are not neutral?).

i have to tell you Dan "braindead" Savage that the more you show off your provincialism, the more I detest your sorry excuse for a journalistic rag. the only reason I het the Stranger is because your a hting motherfucker who can't seem to find a shred of humanity outside of your sorry little sphere of influence. So fuck you! to the rest of the Stranger staff, I sorry this piece of shit editor of yours drags you down with him.

It was my first caucus, and while disorganized, it was inspiring at the same time.
My immediate thought after viewing the confusion was that volunteering would help and I've just signed up to volunteer in my district.
No sense bitching about it if you're not willing to do something about it.

I'm gonna try this again and see if this post sticks:

"Doesn't inspire confidence. And they can't argue that high turnout was unexpected."

It isn't "them" Dan, it is *you*, *me* and every other democrat reporting back to this website today. *You* are a member of the democratic club. You, me and every other democrat should share responsibility for the chaos that happened, this is *our* party and *our* job to fix it.

Saying "somebody else should fix it" or "the state should fix it" is a cop out. If you don't care enough about your party to solve its organizational problems, either keep your bitching to yourself or switch to another party like the republican party--I hear they are much less chaotic for these things.

PS: Thanks for dedicating so much space on the slog for us to tell our stories.

PPS: Comments are weird and are taking forever to post (I'd be snarky and say that you should have planned for extra server capacity as this sends a bad message to slog readers that the stranger isn't organized enough ;-). Sorry if I double or triple post.

what up with all the bitching?

today's caucus was GREAT. i loved it. there were plenty of people someone said above were "disenfranchised" (not to mention, you can vote by mail as well).

it was wonderful to meet my neighbors, and an interesting experience to hear what everyone had to say about their choices.

and most importantly - there was no electronic voting problems! perhaps THIS explains why obama wins in caucus states ... but election fraud is a different story for a different day.

i'm sorry it sucked so bad for all of you. oh well.

from the 43-1347: it was a little chaotic at first getting people signed in-- having to switch to the Nalanda Buddhist Center instead of BF day was discombobulating but people worked together and were patient. It took an hour or two on a saturday-- i think we can handle it-- no one was killed or wounded which is the cost of democracy in other times or places--- maybe being in the Buddhist Center aligned our karma. or something.

We had about 170+ folks; it went 3-1 for Obama with maybe 3 votes for Kucinich-- which translates to 9 next level delegates for Obama and 2 for Clinton-- the speech part wasn't so bad-- i liked having a little face-to-face politics with my neighbors-- I must say having the wrong caucus locations until yesterday on certain dem websites was a really bad screwup-- i didn't leave feeling cynical-- I do feel hope-- a lot of people feeling it together is a material force--The Stranger is ok for finding showtimes, but . . . cynicism is threatened by popular political mobilization-- it unnerves the cynics--- undermines the snark-based, unengaged identity-- o yeah the room really was too small, etc. bla bla bla, such unhealthy snacks....

I feel energized not irritated-- cause I'm not alone-- yes we can people yes we can--we can!

what up with all the bitching?

today's caucus was GREAT. i loved it. there were plenty of people someone said above were "disenfranchised" (not to mention, you can vote by mail as well).

it was wonderful to meet my neighbors, and an interesting experience to hear what everyone had to say about their choices.

and most importantly - there was no electronic voting problems! perhaps THIS explains why obama wins in caucus states ... but election fraud is a different story for a different day.

i'm sorry it sucked so bad for so many of you. democracy's a bitch. oh well.

and for the record, I had a lot of fun. I think next time I'll volunteer to help out.

from the 43-1347: it was a little chaotic at first getting people signed in-- having to switch to the Nalanda Buddhist Center instead of BF day was discombobulating but people worked together and were patient. It took an hour or two on a saturday-- i think we can handle it-- no one was killed or wounded which is the cost of democracy in other times or places--- maybe being in the Buddhist Center aligned our karma. or something.

We had about 170+ folks; it went 3-1 for Obama with maybe 3 votes for Kucinich-- which translates to 9 next level delegates for Obama and 2 for Clinton-- the speech part wasn't so bad-- i liked having a little face-to-face politics with my neighbors-- I must say having the wrong caucus locations until yesterday on certain dem websites was a really bad screwup-- i didn't leave feeling cynical-- I do feel hope-- a lot of people feeling it together is a material force--The Stranger is ok for finding showtimes, but . . . cynicism is threatened by popular political mobilization-- it unnerves the cynics--- undermines the snark-based, unengaged identity-- o yeah the room really was too small, etc. bla bla bla, such unhealthy snacks....

I feel energized not irritated-- cause I'm not alone-- yes we can people yes we can--we can!

I just returned from one of the Kenmore caucuses - my first - and yes, it was hot and noisy and crowded and.....well, a lot of fun.

Dan, if you are just tooooo important and busy to participate - don't.

"They won't be back in 2012, because too many people came in 2008. It was sooo kwowded"

---the most irrelevant caucus comment I can imagine.

"I'll never buy one of THOSE vacuum cleaners again!"

"I'll never read the Stranger again."

"I'll never fly on NorthWest again."

"I demand better service!"

o yes and we ARE in the middle of a once-in-a-generation, insurgent political mobilization.... who really cares about the 2012 caucuses?

Alki Room at Seattle Center was chaos - multiplied by the fact that the location was split into two - some at the Center House, some at the Alki Room.

A total clusterfuck.

Three times the turnout of 2004 at least.

But ended up being fine - and a huge sweep for Obama.

But I agree with Dan - primaries in 2012 or fight!

Similar crowds at Bryant Elementary. I have to say, anyone suggesting that precincts be smaller is out of their minds! My precinct (46-1965) is teensy-weensy, encompassing all of 5 residential blocks. That's something like 150 houses.

From that tiny enclave, 75 registered voters showed up. That's got to be a majority of the Democrats in the precinct, and it definitely wouldn't have happened if not for the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to have our vote actually mean something.

I thought the crowd was fun, and yeah, if you didn't want to hang out, you could just sign in and leave, so I don't see what the whining is all about. We didn't have a precinct chair, nor a secretary, so we nominated the people who were sitting in front of the registration forms, and they're trying to figure out the printed instructions with this huge noisy crowd around them. For me it was a chance to meet some of the folks who live near me.

Democracy is supposed to be messier than a dictatorship!

Caucuses suck and here's why. After I left Lowell Elementary (43-2016, Obama 4, Clinton 2) I wandered up Broadway to buy groceries at QFC. QFC was fully staffed with employees, as was Starbucks, Broadway video and every other business. That's -- in ONE block -- probably a hundred or more people who never had a hope of getting to a caucus because they had to work this afternoon. Think they feel part of a community? Think they feel part of the process? I don't.

I'm for Obama but if Clinton really is a favorite candidate of the working class, and the elderly she has a point about the unfairness of caucuses. By the way precinct had about 100 attending, and of those at least 10 individuals were sporting really trendy fashionable eyeware.

Hamilton Middle School in Wallingford was packed as well. Everyone was friendly and it was nice to see all of my neighbors. A number of folks signed in and left once the realized that they could, but it took a while to get everything going. Our delegate count ended up being 5 for Obama and 1 for Clinton.

Back in my day, the nominations were decided by the railroad, timber and mining interests, and the "electorate" was bought off with colorful bouttoneires and cheap alcohol....

Perhaps we should refer to people who complain about caucusing as Danny-Downers?

@61- LOL .... BWAAAA-bwaaaa

Unless and until we have party registration (like a civilized state), I'm very much opposed to primaries. I don't want any goddam Republicans or Greens or Libertarians interfering with the selection of candidates in my party.

not all of us at stevens were bitching about what a waste of time it was- my roommate and i, first-time caucus-attendees, were amazed and humbled by the whole process. we've grown up doing everything with computers, in this neat and orderly and unconnected way, and the opportunity to feel like a part of our community was inspiring.

however, i absolutely agree that this process excludes a large portion of the population and i think that needs to be addressed- but not by abolishing the caucus. if people just want to vote and not talk about it, or can't attend, there should be a mail in option.

Hey Dan,

Nice Job getting your pithy remarks about the caucus quoted on Politico.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8416.html

Did anyone else see the elderly black gentleman who hefted his walker up two flights of stairs at the Center House, then waited in a half-hour long line? He was right behind that couple with the stroller, carrying their two-year-old.

While it cheers me somewhat that these people found the time and made the effort to attend the caucus, it just reminds me of the thousands of others in their same situation who could not. Caucuses are discriminatory.

I should point out the local Democratic party doubled the size and number of locations since 2004 (when too many people showed up).

Unfortunately, the number of participants is more than twice as many as showed up in 2004 ... some precincts had 3 or 4 times as many.

Some of us tried to warn the party that turnout was going to be even more than their wildest estimates - at least they doubled it ...

To all the people who can't be there: you can participate by proxy. You can even become a delegate by proxy, though that means you'll have to show up at the district convention!

I had a great time at my caucus, though it was so crowded at Salmon Bay School a couple precincts had to caucus out in the hall. Several of my neighbors just signed in and then left, giving up maybe half an hour or so of their day. Pretty much everyone seemed to be excited about the great turnout more than they were concerned about any "inconvenience."

For heaven's sake, people - if you want convenience in politics, sign up for the Bush dictatorship. It would be a lot easier to just let one person make all your decisions for you, wouldn't it?

County committees have the chore of setting up the caucuses, and have to rely on their history to settle on spaces for the meetings. Presidential years require larger venues, but 2008 was way off the chart. I've been to caucuses where you felt like a peanut in a Pontiac. Perhaps the county chairs should have known that there are enough pissed off folk who will not tolerate a third Bushie term, but they couldn't afford to rent Seahawks Stadium.

Think you had a big crowd? Check out this dispatch from Boise last Tuesday night:

http://abrunelle.tumblr.com/post/25619078

8,300 show up to vote at a place that holds 6,500.

Wow, I didn't realize I lived close enough to you that we attended the same caucus. Stars in my eyes aside, I resent your "braindead" comment. I went in undecided, but I did make a choice after listening to many peoples' speeches for their chosen candidate. Some of us respect the theory behind the process, even if it was a widdle too cwowded for you.

Sara J: The only way you can participate in the caucus via a "surrogate vote" is if you're in the military, for medical reasons (with 10 days or so notice) or for religious reasons. Any other excuse? Tough luck. I introduced a resolution in my caucus yesterday to get rid of the system and go to a primary because the method in inherently undemocratic.

Have to work? Tough luck. Can't find a babysitter? Tough luck. Get sick the day before? Tough luck. No public transportation to the caucus site? Tough luck.

That's not the way Democrats should behave.

Maybe this is a Seattle problem - lots of complainers, but how many of you actually helped organizer your caucus?

At my caucus in Kittitas we knew that most people showing up would not know which precinct they lived in, so we had maps and laptops to quickly determine who was in which precinct.

I loved hearing from each person why they supported either Clinton or Obama. As a firm Obama supported, it was reassuring to hear from Clinton supporters - we need to be united in the general.

Quit complaining and help organizer your next caucus - its the only time you might actually talk to a neighbor about politics.

Dear Readers,

Stop whining about the caucus system. And stop whining about the lack of a Primary. The Ugly Truth is political parties are private entities composed of like minded people with the right, nay the obligation to discriminate against those who do not subscribe to the party's goals and ideology. We all have the right to choose with whom we associate. The three political parties recognized by the State of Washington (Democrats, Republicans, and Greens) are extensions of that right.
For decades the two major parties have suckered every tax paying citizen in the state into contributing tax dollars to each party to pay for the process each party uses to decide who their candidate for any given office will be. Primaries are not about democracy, they are about welfare to major political Parties. I believe, much to the horror of my party, that each party should pay for it's own internal organizing functions, i.e. if Washington State pays for Primary elections the Dems, GOP, and Greens should reimburse the tax payers for that cost.
In defense of caucuses. As a Democratic PCO I chaired our caucus and therefore have a better understanding than most about the process. The process is transparent and there were no questions about whether or not a vote was counted. The rules developed by the party and read aloud to everyone who attended made it clear all questions about the process would be answered and political opinions would be respected and they were.
The Democratic party is open to anyone who declares themselves a Democrat. If your caucus site was too small you should have been involved to assure a bigger site was available. If a couple hours a month is too much of a commitment to your political beliefs, heaven forbid you were asked to contribute an three hours once a year on a Saturday afternoon. Stop whining. This is what democracy looks like.

Excellent comment, Laurian. My caucus at Lawton School on Magnolia was pandemonium, excitement, hot, and a perfect example of what democracy should be. Sometimes you actually have to sacrifice a little bit for your right to be involved in how you are governed. Anyone can go to a voting booth and pull a lever, or fill out an absentee ballot and stick it in the mail. The caucus system requires a little bit of thought, dedication and actually getting your butt out of the house. Not too much of a sacrifice to ask for the freedoms we have.

Stop whining, freaking GIVE two hours every 4 years for the sake of Democracy
A caucus is where NEIGHBORS meet, where the crowds are infectious (in a GOOD way)
Sure Caucuses are noisy and crowded that is GOOD Jefferson WANTED democracy to be messy
The caucus is for the actual people who CARE about our country AND our PARTY actual DEMOCRATS......as a PCO I met people from MY precinct who WENT OUT OF THEIR way to participate, PEOPLE WAIT ON LINES LONGER TO SEE FREAKING MOVIES
PARTICIPATE OR STFU

I tried to caucus in Mukilteo and was unable. I was shooed away. It took me 20 minutes to get to the school due to a never ending line of cars, another 15 minutes to find parking in front of some poor peoples house and 5 minutes to walk to the school. We finally got to the school at 1:25. There was no central location to ask questions, big maps with people crowed around just as confused as we were. We were told to go to an over crowded gym, then to the over crowded commons, then back to the gym, constantly being asked "did we know our district number? Did we know our neighborhood location?" In the gym swarming with bodies we searched small hand made signs with these strange names that meant nothing to us trying to find a name that looked familiar. Two times we fought for the sign in sheets of possible locations that did not have our names. Finally one sign looked promising and we asked if this was where we voted. The gentleman told us these other people had got there at 1:00 and they had begun the caucus at 1:20 so it wasn't fair to them. I was under the assumption the caucus began at 1:30. I told him never mind, turned around and swore a never ending hatred for this retarded state and its ass backwards inhabitants. I am from California. They send you a voter booklet, you go to the church on the back, little old lady with a plate of sadwich cookies gives a nice neat clipboard to sign, you vote, they give you a sticker, you go home happy. And you have ALL DAY to do this.It's called a PRIMARY. I was not allowed to vote and I am PISSED. The Washington results are a joke. Another example of a state that can't give a street a regular name ( what is with the freaking numbers), have one way streets that go head on into one way streets (HUH?), and has some kind of moral problem with laying down a sidewalk. D'ah!

I tried to caucus in Mukilteo and was unable. I was shooed away. It took me 20 minutes to get to the school due to a never ending line of cars, another 15 minutes to find parking in front of some poor peoples house and 5 minutes to walk to the school. We finally got to the school at 1:25. There was no central location to ask questions, big maps with people crowed around just as confused as we were. We were told to go to an over crowded gym, then to the over crowded commons, then back to the gym, constantly being asked "did we know our district number? Did we know our neighborhood location?" In the gym swarming with bodies we searched small hand made signs with these strange names that meant nothing to us trying to find a name that looked familiar. Two times we fought for the sign in sheets of possible locations that did not have our names. Finally one sign looked promising and we asked if this was where we voted. The gentleman told us these other people had got there at 1:00 and they had begun the caucus at 1:20 so it wasn't fair to them. I was under the assumption the caucus began at 1:30. I told him never mind, turned around and swore a never ending hatred for this retarded state and its ass backwards inhabitants. I am from California. They send you a voter booklet, you go to the church on the back, little old lady with a plate of sadwich cookies gives a nice neat clipboard to sign, you vote, they give you a sticker, you go home happy. And you have ALL DAY to do this.It's called a PRIMARY. I was not allowed to vote and I am PISSED. The Washington results are a joke. Another example of a state that can't give a street a regular name ( what is with the freaking numbers), have one way streets that go head on into one way streets (HUH?), and has some kind of moral problem with laying down a sidewalk. D'ah!

And I posted twice. So there. Bleah!

I caucused at Victrola and had the best experience ever! I just assumed everyone else was meeting in local venues and that it was one precint per venue. Just signing in for your perference and leaving is lame.