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RSS icon Comments on RE: Sean Nelson: Not Braindead

1

The Manchurian Candidate is awesome.

Posted by annie | February 11, 2008 12:44 PM
2

tl; dr

Posted by Daaaaave | February 11, 2008 12:47 PM
3

Last post of the day...

On my cab ride from Obama's Key Arena event, my 50-something, white male driver told me he was supporting Hillary because he wanted her to be the first woman president and because he liked Bill Clinton and liked the idea of him being "first man." Also, he said, "I don't want to sound racist, but I don't want a black man to become president."

Posted by Trevor | February 11, 2008 12:54 PM
4

I do agree the racist vote will rear its ugly head against Obama, but thanks to our Electoral College system I also suspect it will mostly happen in Red states that are not in play anyway.

Even the most hardcore Obamamanic is not thinking that Mississippi or Kentucky or Oklahoma will go Blue this election.

Posted by Jason | February 11, 2008 12:56 PM
5

Sean... thanks for breathing some sense into this "newspaper". Too bad you're just an Emeritus. You seem to be less like the knee jerk staff the paper currently has. Again, just want to say THANKS for the rational dialog!!!

Posted by apttitle | February 11, 2008 1:04 PM
6

I've been variously amused, chagrined and bored by the Clinton and Obama camps that have formed among staff who write for The Stranger. It's very different from the conversations I've had with my friends and the conversations I had with fellow caucus goers on Saturday.

We all just want to get along. We say (and believe to some extent) that we'll be happy with either Obama or Clinton. We contrast that with the Republicans, who are putting forth a candidate whom the general public likes but whom the evangelical nutjobs who make up a huge part of the Republican electorate despise. We are concerned about the electability of EITHER Obama or Clinton against McCain, whom we'd all counted out months ago, but we like both of them better than Kerry.

This is a strange presidential contest. None of the conventional wisdom has panned out. Those of us who care about one candidate or the other are making a leap of faith that the U.S. electorate can finally look past sex and race when choosing a president. We are idealistic no matter which Democrat we support, as we believe that by electing one of these two, the world will forgive us a little bit for having allowed such an idiotic asshole and xenophobic administration represent us for eight years.

Of the six Obama delegates from my precinct, I'm proudest of the sole white straight guy we picked. He made a speech for Obama and then a speech to be elected as a delegate. In those speeches, he told us that he served in the military until just recently. (I believe he was in Iraq, but I couldn't quite catch that part; the room was incredibly noisy.) He has been a registered Republican his entire adult life. He "like[s] McCain" and would have no problem voting for him. But he has just switched parties so that he can vote for Barack Obama. Obama is the first candidate who has ever inspired him. I can't help but hope that he is the tip of the iceberg among the American electorate, rather than the special case.

Posted by Will in 98103 | February 11, 2008 1:05 PM
7

obama is not a "black man".

he's half white, and half EAST african immigrant.

close enough for hand grenades for some rascists, but a crucial distinction for some bigots.

Posted by max solomon | February 11, 2008 1:14 PM
8

At my caucus many people spoke up with a common, familiar thread:

"I'm originally from (insert non-coastal state here) and here in Seattle you just don't understand how hated Hillary is there...my insert "mother", "father", "brothers" or other relatives here) is voting Obama but said will vote McCain before Hilllary..."

It's partially what has pulled me toward Obama. He inspires my working class white Wisconsin, New Mexico and Alaska relatives who I know for a fact won't vote for Hillary Clinton.

Posted by Jason | February 11, 2008 1:18 PM
9

Interesting that the Obama against Clinton argument is still raging on Slog. I know everybody thinks their policy stands are essentially the same , but if you are concerned about the war that has bankrupted our country morally and financially, you might want to read this article from the Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-loeb/hillary-heeds-hawks-how-_b_85853.html

Posted by Boom Boom | February 11, 2008 1:28 PM
10

Just out of curiousity: Then who did you vote for in 1996? Bob Dole? Ross Perot?

Posted by Aislinn | February 11, 2008 1:44 PM
11

How come nobody ever mentions John McCain as a potential Manchurian Candidate? Five and a half years as a prisoner of war? And sometimes McCain's hawkishness sounds like his secret programming is activating a little too soon.

Posted by Bub | February 11, 2008 1:49 PM
12

U R a windbag

Posted by Meagan | February 11, 2008 1:53 PM
13

@4 - actually, today's Wall Street Journal (backed by WaPo articles) shows that Virginia, a formerly Dark Red state, has had 2:1 Dem:GOP voter reg and ballot returns ...

There are no Red states.

There are only shades of Blue this year.

People have had enough.

Posted by Will in Seattle | February 11, 2008 1:56 PM
14

Yeah, liberals tend to forget the virulent racism still rampant in flyover country. A sample:

Take Vicki Hercsky, 47, a teacher from Boca Raton, Florida. "Obama, I don't even know how he got where he is," she told me after a Rudy Giuliani event late last month. "Why do you say that?" I asked. "He's Muslim," she replied, matter-of-factly. I stammered. "Well, um, his father was raised Muslim but was an agnostic by the time Barack was born," I said. "Obama is a Christian." Hercsky wasn't swayed. "Yeah, but he has it in his blood," she said. "You can't take away what's given to you. It's given to you for a reason, and that's who you are. That's who he is." I'm not sure what she meant by "it," or "who he is"--and I'm not sure I want to know.

http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/02/11/obama-s-pesky-muslim-problem.aspx

Posted by Superfurry Animal | February 11, 2008 2:00 PM
15

I was hitchikeing back and forth cross country over the summer. every trucker i met hated all the canadetes accept barrack obama. these are scruffy independent minded people who arent afraid to say "n***er' over the CB

so barack obama has the "white vaugly redneck but intelligent redneck who picked me up hitchhikeing" vote (about 20 people)

maybe it's all the travel that makes truckers cosmopolitan....I'd be worried about the hom town hicks)

p.s. the truckers i've met over the years have been conservative but open minded tolerant people

Posted by LINUS | February 11, 2008 2:11 PM
16

Arguing anecdotally from random shitheads whom the media dug up isn't very useful. There are a lot of whackjobs in Florida. But remember how close Florida has been the last two times. Florida is going to go blue this year, for Obama or for Clinton.

Which isn't to say I don't worry about racism. But Obama has done moderately well with whites in the south, and outstandingly well with whites in rural areas, like the Great Plains. That's an AMAZING shift. There's also no evidence that urban working class whites will refuse to shift their votes for Obama if Clinton doesn't win.

In short, yes, it's possible that racism will stop him. But I don't think it will. When you consider the slender margin he needs to overcome compared to '00 and '04, and the surprising gains he's made in what once would be considered unlikely groups, and the overall energy and enthusiasm people are feeling, I think he's a slam-dunk winner.

I think Clinton's a winner, too, but by a smaller margin. Of course, if the Republicans splinter and send up an evangelical third party candidate, a three-legged dog named "Lucky" could win.

Posted by Fnarf | February 11, 2008 2:14 PM
17

"voting Obama but said will vote McCain before Hilllary"

Are these people fucking retarded, or just kind of retarded?

Posted by w7ngman | February 11, 2008 2:36 PM
18

most of america are retards
and i'm a proud one of them'
I will not vote for hillary...maybe not for mccain either...I'll write in obama's name...or sit at home and drink

Posted by linus | February 11, 2008 2:45 PM
19

wingman, many of us arent democrats.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | February 11, 2008 3:21 PM
20

I think your philosophy is admirable, Sean -- that you want to want the person to win that you want to win because you actually WANT him/her to win.

Ow, my head.

But I think the other response, to want the person to win that you think CAN win, is a valid one as well -- or, at the very least, it's a practical one. And I think there's something to be said for going the practical route every now and then come election time, even if that does mean we've let go of some of our lovely idealism. Nobody ever said a democratic republic was perfect, after all. And sometimes, you have to sacrifice your lofty ideals for the greater good.

Not that I actually think this is the key issue at the moment, though. For me, it's not about picking the candidate most likely to win -- it's about picking the candidate most UNlikely to be passionately loathed by so MANY people that she has to spend her entire presidency beating off the asshooligans with a stick instead of actually getting stuff done. Remember the incessant scandals invented to keep the Clintons in continuous trouble last time they were in office? I look at a Hillary victory and all I see is damage control 24/7 with no room left to actually change a damn thing.

Also, of course, it's not just Republicans that can't stand Hillary -- a lot of Democrats can't stand her either. She's very polarizing, even in her own party, in a way Obama just isn't. Do we really want to elect a president who is that polarizing?

God, I'm tired of the word "polarizing."

Obama inspires people in a way I don't think I've ever seen a candidate do in my voting lifetime, and that sure feels good to me right now. He makes people care again -- and, even more, he makes us feel like it's WORTH bothering to care again. I mean, yeah, I guess expecting anybody, including Obama, to REALLY change the world is even more naive than wanting to want the candidate you want to want to win. Or whatever that was. Nevertheless -- a country where people are actually inspired by their president? Man, isn't it pretty to think so?

Posted by Meg | February 11, 2008 4:31 PM
21

That I secretly want Obama to win because it will piss off all the racist assholes left in the United States... I've decided it's not the worst reason ever.

But it's a good thing he's such a great candidate in so many other ways.

Posted by V | February 11, 2008 10:11 PM
22

Thank you, Sean Nelson:

But I do feel disheartened when people’s argument for a given candidate involves the word “electability,” because that word takes the discussion out of the realm of what you actually think or believe, and into the realm of supposing what other people will think or believe or do [...] It’s unhelpful speculation, born of an obsession with polls (which are objectively untrustworthy and intrinsically damaging) and the increasing blog-and-24-hour-news-channel-assisted delusion of ordinary citizens believing they have some kind of inside line on the insider baseball of politics. And it’s deeply cynical. It’s also very likely inaccurate, because how the hell do you know what people think?

WA's caucus has come and gone and so has our say in this nomination, but this bares repeating again and again. "Electability" is not real. It's not a quality, a value, an issue or part of someone's character. It is absolute made-up bullshit. It is not possible to know how other people are going to be voting - so don't try to read minds and base your voting decision on theirs. If we all had ESP and a collective consciousness, then "electability" might play a role in decision making, but we don't and it doesn't, so don't fucking try and use it.
As others have said on Slog, "I find it strange that the Democrats keep insisting on letting their enemies choose the Democratic candidates." Do not vote based on your fear of what other people will do, make a vote for the person you most want to be President. And, "Vote for the person who will make the best president."

Posted by hairyson | February 12, 2008 1:38 PM
23

i find it increasingly more difficult to take seriously or seriously take on people who are staunchly allegiant for one or the other. I think, because i continue to find both of them to be equally evocative or unevocative, as it sometimes is. it feels frail, forced or too altered to be legitimate resolve for one or the other. though, i may be missing it all.

Posted by a-bree-ham | February 12, 2008 3:17 PM

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