2008 Just Words, Just Coincidence, and the New Anti-Obama Meme
posted by on February 18 at 9:06 AM
Here’s part one in what seems to be an increasing effort to take Obama down a notch via YouTube, the medium by which many of his speeches have reached his most fervent supporters. The clip, via Lynn Sweet, compares the words of Barack Obama to the highly similar words of Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick:
The similarity in the speeches has become a story and it is explained, in part, by the fact that both men have relied on the help of political consultant David Axelrod. But the broader point, no doubt intended by the “rival campaign” that is circulating the clip (who could that be? hint: there are only two left), is that Obama is not a singular figure but a borrower—or, even, a plagiarist.
Part two is this YouTube video, which suggests that Obama plants fainting people in the audiences at his rallies:
This video doesn’t seemed to be linked to a “rival campaign” and it’s a lot easier to dismiss—people fainting at crowded political rallies is a common occurrence, and hardly limited the Obama phenomenon. At the Clinton rally in Seattle just before the Washington caucuses, I saw two people taken out by paramedics. And even John Kerry, not the kind of speaker you would expect to make people faint, found himself interrupting a speech in Tacoma in 2004 to call for EMTs. Also, see here for a woman fainting at a recent Bill Clinton speech and here for suspicion that Hillary Clinton has planted fainters in her audiences.
So this staged-fainting business doesn’t seem like something to take seriously, but the intended message does, because it’s similar to the message contained in the first video. That is: Obama’s charisma is built on a foundation of on-stage chicanery.
Watch for this idea to keep circulating as Obama’s rivals look for ways to neutralize his oratorical advantage.
UPDATE: That didn’t take long. The Clinton campaign today is saying of the Obama-Patrick story:
If you’re going to be talking about the value of words, the words ought to be your own.
The Obama campaign is hitting back with this:
I thought the Clintons disdained the politics of personal destruction. Oh, that's right. They only cared about that when it affected *them*. My bad.
Duval Patrick & Obama are friends. Apparently, they use each other's speeches. Patrick was pleased that Obama used his lines. So, it's a non-story. The real story is whether Clinton and/or Obama can turn this country around.
Well of course it's just words when they campaign. Are some idiots expecting a presidential candidate to do card tricks?
I really have a profound comment to make on this but..I..am feeling.....faint......
You know it could just be passing out from boredom...
@3, I expect the candidates to go to Parsons and design a FABULOUS outfit using the contents of my garbage can!
Make it work Barack! And Hillary, I am concerned your outfit is a bit too matronly...
I wouldn't discount the possibility of intentional/fake fainting planned by nobody but the fainter. If you had a huge crush on Barack Obama and limited (imaginary and financial) resources, could you think of no better way of getting his attention for a moment than standing in front of him and then collapsing to the ground?
Fainting, and ducking: The question, Eli, is not -- and never was -- whether people faint at political rallies.
The Clinton campaign should be checking tapes of Rick Warren for similarities.
Again, I think Democrats have this adolescent self-loathing thing -- they believe something must be shameful about there being a Democrat who generates some excitement. If we're excited and optimistic it means A) Something is probably wrong with us; and B) The Republicans are going to make fun of us.
Better to go back to the experienced, steady, name-brand candidate with the briefcase full of policy positions (Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry...) At least we won't be made fun of!
with the skills of delivery - good original speeches might be the better idea - lots of money for the BEST speech writers
this is going to stick - the canned and paid for speech, yuk
delivered by an agent of change - ie. the Wal Mart campaign package
oh, sorry, the Macy's campaign - where is he buying this stuff??
OBAMA better get on the clue bus, quickly - I hope he goes to a cheap barber
Next question @2 is right. Here's the key point from the NYT article:
(emphasis mine)
So Obama's just as phony as everyone else in politics. Gosh, what a shock!
If Governor Patrick gives Obama permission then it's not theft.
That said, this is a very thoughtful gift to the Clinton campaign.
(1) Having given money to Joe Biden this year, let me just point out that what he did in 1988 was no worse than this.
(2) Remember a week ago when I said "it's all over but the shouting?" This is the shouting part. Obama will win WI, then he will TX, VT, and RI while Hills will win OH but by a small amount. The story will be Obama winning TX, and Hills won't win another state, and the supes will roll over.
Big Sven, Obama might win WI. However, he will not come close to winning TX or PA. He might win NC, which along with GA & IL, are ranked in the top 10 in population. VA is #12. Clinton dominates the largest states.
I'm just disgusted to see Obama stealing those lines from Deval Patrick.
I haven't seen such a sickening and shocking display of plagiarism since Herbie Hancock won the Grammy for ripping off the work of his friend Joni Mitchell. Hancock should have known there was no way he could hide his intellectual theft, especially when he named the album "River: The Joni Letters."
If you gave the set-up to 500 speech writers 250 or more of them would write the quotes used by Patrick and Obama. They are the obvious quotes to fight off "they are nothing but words". Now of course the point of the criticism was and is that these candidates are not qualified whereas those quoted had accomplished much.
@7, Ron, what is the question?
Fitz- Some polls have Obama ahead in TX, and PA is a looooooong time away... a lot can happen in two months...
I still like Hills. I still want her to be President. I just think there's no way in hell it's going to happen. Ten loses in a row, including huge ones in my two favorite states (MN and WA), have left me profoundly "Meh."
It is all much ado about nothing.
I seriously hope Obama does pull off a stunder in Ohio or Texas as someone needs to put the Clinton camp out of its misery. Some people faint after standing or sitting for hours in closed quarters in a packed mob of people.
"We walk along this endless path
Which has led us in a circle
So here we are right back
We can't let the future become our past
If we are to change the world."
Ben "the prophet" Harper "How Many Miles Must We March."
Stunner not stunder. I need to start previewing.
If you must write prose or poems, the words you use should be your own.
By that definition, everyone's a plagiarist.
Good thing most Americans don't pay attention to this crap, as well they shouldn't.
Pathetic Clintonista campaign...
Just pathetic.
Billary you are becoming such an embarassment.
Go away quietly and with dignity...
The American people deserve better.
Seriously yo.
Reality Check
Part of me wonders if this wasn't an "on purpose" thing by Obama's camp. People knew he was due for a scandal sometime soon, so maybe they leaked something insignificant like this to see if Hillary would take the bait.
...and of course, she did.
They should be using these instead...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bIf84llCRPc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=T9hpMhcIcC8
You kids.
Here's the thing that people keep missing. Deval Patrick was accused by his opponent of only being "just words" and he came back with the appropriate response, and guess what? It worked. He's the Governor.
Hillary, in all her infinite wisdom is attacking Obama the same way Patrick was attacked, and what does Obama do? He uses the same response that worked for Patrick. I wonder what happens next....
Hillary is an idiot.
Whenever I'm feeling disspirited about HRC and accomodating to Obama, trust Reality Check to say something stupid and make me all partisan and fired up again. Thanks, Reality Check!
Your candidate never says what he would actually *do* as President. This is so that everyone can fill in the blanks as they like- independents and centrists hearing the "inclusive politics" stuff, progressives trusting his liberal voting record.
Versus Clinton, who has the *BALLS* to say what her priorities would be once elected.
And you can say "he's got position papers!" and "facts no longer matter, it's all about ideas!" until you're blue in the face- those memes only work in the Obama echo chamber. Before this race is over, Americans will demand to know what each candidate will actually do with their days in the White House. Obama best come up with- and talk about- his answers to this question, or he's fucked.
Sven, we all KNOW what Clinton would do in office. After 8 years of Bush, there is a part of me that wants to get have my team to get dirty and slimy too, to let the repugnicans know what it feels like again... But 90% of me just wants to turn the page and start something new. The Clintons represent the past. Obama IS the future.
@1I thought the Clintons disdained the politics of personal destruction. Oh, that's right. They only cared about that when it affected *them*. My bad.
So evidently it's perfectly okay for Obama campaign to continually throw out gobs of anti-Clinton propaganda attacks, but it's "unfair" to unearth and challenge any "facts" about their SUPREME LEADER.
@25The American people deserve better.
You mean like the Republican-style smear campaign that the Obamatons are relentlessly waging against Hillary Clinton? That's better? The Obama campaign is politics as usual (or worse) masquerading as something "new".
New smearing, Obama-style.
Woohoo! This is sweet! That's another 1% of the inds who will switch their vote to McCain, thanks guys!
What, dear Clinton supporters, are the "smears" the Obama campaign has used against the Clinton campaign? Methinks that Hillary and her campaign have done enough to sabotage themselves. As today's news illustrates, her campaign didn't even bother to familiarize itself with any states voting after super Tuesday. That's not Obama's fault.
As for Senator Obama, at the Wisconsin Founders Day gala he said that he would restore Habeus Corpus, close Gitmo, restore the Constitutional balance between the Executive and Congressional branches of government, and return the US to the rule of law. Imagine that! Has Hillary said that? Or is she too busy flinging shit about plagiarism around her gilded cage?
Big Sven said:
Plagiarist.But seriously. What Obama would do in office is work with people. Make friends. He would not vow to destroy the careers of those who disagreed with him. He would offer face-saving escape routes for legislators who stood in his way.
So while his agenda is very hard to distinguish from Hillary's -- and parts of it might has well be Hillary's -- the difference is that his agenda would move forward, while Hillary's would be bogged down in trench warfare.
On another topic, you know how the Fox News said anyone who dissented from Bush & Co. was helping Al Qaeda? That's what I think of whenever Democrats say you're helping the GOP whenever you criticize Hillary or Obama as part of this campaign. It's a shitty scare tactic used by those who have nothing good to contribute.
e-
Completely agree. Thus far, the debate seems to me to have strengthened both candidates (HRC and BO) and make either one of them better prepared for the general election.
Now if either campaign goes into *serious* Oppo Research mode, I might start to feel differently...
Obama is not divine - on the real earth all political campaigns everywhere, resemble war.
He best get busy and get a clue. If you think Hillary is dirty - shit - wait for Mc Cain and Rove to start hammering him.
On this slog there is a lack of real world reasoning.
I believe American wants problem solving - ie. to fix a govt. gone very wrong. ==== solutions.
Obama better start laying it out in plain English, because Mc Cain is an outspoken straight shooter, "this is what I am going to do".
Change sounds good to some voters, but will be scary to many.
Fix the broken govt. with real solutions rather than much more rhetoric is a better track. I hope he gets there soon.
And canned speeches in the day of national media and the internet, etc. --- get some new stuff , this is not 1930....today, the next town HAS heard that speech several times.
Yeah, John, by the time Obama got to Washington everyone had heard that same stump speech fifty times. That's why the 18,000 people who showed up at Key Arena went home so disappointed. They'd rather have Hillary or McCain, whose rallies always feature original material.
e-
It isn't 18,000 progressives that Obama has to get motivated to show up in Washington on Nov 4. It's 1,500,000+ Democrats and independents. Perhaps it's not unreasonable to suggest that this pool might have different priorities than the 18,000 enthusiasts?
I was only pointing out that if Obama was going to be hurt by replaying his greatest hits on the stump, it would have hurt him a long time ago. And those who do demand a hot virgin speech every time wouldn't find an alternative candidate who's any more original.
It's fine to ask if independents have different priorities. It's a good question, but the only way I know, at the moment, to answer it is to look at the polls. To suggest that they are in fact less likely to vote for Obama than Hillary or McCain raises the question of why you think poll after poll is wrong.
I get kind of amused when Republicans and Obama's Democratic "friends" look at his broad popularity and success at the polls, and they start telling him how now he has to change everything. Why would you change what works?
That little cheat! Hillary stole all my ideas to use against Obama, like "talk is cheap", "actions speak louder than words", "put your money where your mouth is", and even "Money talks and Bullshit walks". I'm expecting a big thank you payment after the election.
It isn't 18,000 progressives that Obama has to get motivated to show up in Washington on Nov 4. It's 1,500,000+ Democrats and independents.
As an independent, the prospect of President Hillary sure motivates me: To vote for McCain.
The 600lb gorilla in the room is that Hillary is riding Bill's coattails. The Republicans will have a field day with this. Is this Hillary's idea or Bill's warmed over idea?
If Hillary wins the Dem. nomination, Lewinsky and Mr. Impeached will be headline news again. She can't stand on her own, because she is linked with Bill.
Additionally, Hillary has not provided a more specific plan than Barack. She's not saying what her plans are (i.e. when will the troops be out of Iraq). She is practicing Rovean politics: creating a false impression of her opponent (see Kerry as flip-flopper); but not attacking the ideas.
Man this is trivial shit to be feuding about. I hope they can figure out how to do better than this.
It's not just the words they use, it's how well they use them. Obama is really hard to beat in this department, and the Hillary camp is apparently getting desperate. It's not as if she's not trying to do it herself, she's just failing miserably at it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRQD-MsSpfI
@30: As an outside observer (a dirty Canadian), I've always thought Obama came off a little shallow. He's running his campaign like one for university politics: "I'm going to fight to lower tuition fees!" "Will maintain student rights!" "Will verb the adjective noun!"....it always leaves me asking "how?" He's rarely pulled it out and just said clearly how he plans to do things, and when he has it's not a better plan than HRC's (see: Health Care).
He's got the charisma of Jobs and she's the butt of many a meme. I'd still rather have an ugly mofo who gets stuff done than a pretty "ideas-man".
It's sad to think what 8 more years of the Clintons might be like.
I really was looking forward to a few years without constant negativity and no-holds-barred hatchet jobs, after the last two terms ...
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