women feel betrayed by another woman not choosing their woman candidate?

OK, I'll say it: JFK was overrated. He got us into the Bay of Pigs and Vietnam. He was a drug abuser and banged mob molls while President. Johnson did all the Presidential heavy lifting w.r.t. civil and voting rights, and got the shaft for it.

If WJC had been killed two years into his first term, people would have a national hard on for him in the same manner. Governance is hard; martyrship is easy.

ps- Ted Kennedy I like. RFK, too.

Priceless.

Maybe I am starting to like her just a bit more.

Your interview piece may shed some new light on her to me. A side I might have never realized before?

Heh. heh. heh.

Reality Check

My grandparents had a replica of JFK's presidential rocking chair. Man, was that thing uncomfortable.

Yes after supporting the Viaduct rebuild, and doing nothing to help transti or light rail, and doing nothing on 520, gee whilikers, here's a way to buy back support from all those moveon liberals in Seattle without having to agree with them on anything substantive! It doesn't cost the Governor any money, nor any political capital.

A profile in courage -- she endorses Obama at a time when he is known to be the overwhelming favorite of the state.
Wow, how Kennedyesque.

Let's all just cream in our jeans, whoo-hoo hey SHE LIKES US after all!

[snicker, snicker, she snickers, surveying us and the turnip truck. He-he-he.]

It is refreshing to hear from a prominent woman enlightened enough to think beyond gender loyalty. Finally.

unPC, you live in napa?

@ 3, So what do you like about Ted? The drinking or driving off bridges with his .... associate left behind in the car?

@6,

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=511072

Andrew@9:

No, more like the fact that he's been the most effective liberal Senator for the past 30 years.

But by all means, please negate all the good that he's done by balancing one terrible mistake he made almost 40 years ago (and that certainly cost him the Presidency.)

As to his drinking- who the fuck cares? And what web site are you posting to? judgementalchristians.com?

I don't know what all the hoo-ha is with woman feeling betrayed when other women don't support Clinton. I felt betrayed every other election when there wasn't a decent candidate to vote for. Woman need to stop voting with their vaginas and start voting with their brains. We aren't men, after all.

It took three strong men to pull me off a dude who sat down in my replica JFK rocker. I came away with one of his fingers in my teeth and I'd have killed him if they hadn't stopped me. No jury in America would have convicted me. None.

A "deep sense of betrayal" is what happens when you elect a Democratic president that signs DOMA, welfare reform, and NAFTA into law.

The Governor did the right thing. I have long supported Gregoire and her Obama endorsement is proof that she understands the constituents she represents.

A portrait of JFK is the only non-family photo hanging in my 89-year old grandfather's house. He is an Obama supporter. Holler at your Catholic vote.

Curiously, I don't see this sense of gender-loyalty among the post-Baby Boomer women. Personally, I know equal amounts of Obama and Hillary supporters among the under 45 women I know--and their reasons are all the same as is debated here daily: electibility, experience, character & policy. The over-45 women friends I have who support Obama do seem to feel they have to apologize for it, and sometimes even make arguments why Hillary is counterfeminist (she got there on Bill's coattails, USA needs a Golda Meir not a Lurleen Wallace, etc). They do seem to think they are somehow "breaking rank" if they are leaning toward Obama. YMMV

Her endorsement had nothing to do with Clinton, much less her gender. She supported Obama for the same reason she sat with you for a half-hour: she needs the urban hipster/activist vote/$$/volunteering to clench her winning over Rossi this time. In 2004 she was a mere footnote race, certainly next to Patty Murray, who had every D's support. Gregoire cannot be a footnote afterthought race again, and she knows it. Very shrewd for her to endorse Obama, hence her reaction I wager.

@11 - so you overlook teddy's drinking but then slur Jack over drugs and sex?

@18, damn you beat me to it!

OK, I'm trying to say I can see having a photo of JFK. And a bust, if you're a big, big fan. But a chair? Is that healthy?

I mean if Mitt Romney had a magic Mormon chair that nobody could sit in, they'd be laughing much harder at that than the magic underwear. It's not that unusual to have an underwear fetish, but once you start worshiping a chair, well, that's fucked up.

@18 Damn you beat me to it also!

LOL

dud @ 11 -- OK, if you want to get into it, JFK concealed a medical condition that made him unfit for office, and his mobbed-up liaisons would make him instant impeachment bait in today's world. Plus, he double-dag0ddared us into Vietnam, and almost got us all killed over Cuba.

He's the Bad President we mythologize as the Good President, for his soaring rhetoric and untimely end.

Clearly all of our leaders suck. BRING BACK THE MONARCHY!!! God Save the Queen!!! Long Live Queen Elizabeth II!!! God Save the Queen!!

@22 - the name's some dude. or duder. or el dooderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing :p

but i guess it is all a relative matter of perspective. you could say he almost got us killed during the missile crisis. or you could say he saved civilization as we know it by keeping gen. lemay in check (unless you think jack kennedy should have taken his advice?).

if someone who lacked self-control (bush, cheney, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, etc.) was president back then we'd still be in the depths of nuclear winter. so i tend to give J/RFK credit on that one.

@14 - she didn't sign those, she slept with the guy who did.

Even if she did agree with him on them.

@8 Bellevue Ave:

No. Ix-nay on the apa-nay peculation-say.
In fact, I don't think I've ever been there.

Are you from Bellevue?

@10 Josh: good link. The original post just said you "loved" Gregoire's stance, sort of, so I wrongly concluded you um, loved her stance or something. My bad. Your link gives more context, always good. Thanks. I presume you mean the part saying "Liberal Seattle's gleeful reaction is equally inaccurate. ... Gregoire fooled Seattle's flaming liberals into thinking she's in common cause with their call to overturn the status quo. Are you kidding? This is a governor who punted on property-tax reform by kowtowing to Tim Eyman; stumped for an elevated highway along Seattle's waterfront; unplugged a comprehensive family leave bill; and put out the word to the Democratic near-supermajority not to do anything too expensive, like adding $100 million into the housing trust fund this session..... Come November, voters should also remember she's part of the reason Seattle is irrelevant in Olympia."

Well put.

Maybe she supported Obama for the same reason the majority of voters in EVERY county in Washington State supported Obama. He's more inspiring, he's brilliant, and he more of a leader because he doesn't demonize those with whom he disagrees. Have fun with the beauty pageant today.

some dude@18:

so you overlook teddy's drinking but then slur Jack over drugs and sex

Yes. Absolutely. I think that a decades' long addition to pain killers and fucking mobsters is a problem for a sitting President. Don't you? And you,
Andrew? And you, Reality Check? Vs. drinking too much, a trait shared by many on the SLOG and probably 90% of SLOG nighters?

JFK just didn't do very much before dying. Two years of cold war brinksmanship and third world adventurism. Vs. 30+ years of liberal leadership in the Senate.

Whenever I get depressed about how my candidate is currently gettting her ass kicked in the primaries, I hold out the hope that if she doesn't get the nom she can hopefully go on to have a Teddy-style career in the Senate.

@10

Josh, I like the article, but I have a problem with the last sentence.

Come November, voters should also remember she's part of the reason Seattle is irrelevant in Olympia.

I would hope the voters remember this before November. By then the only other choice will be Rossi.

Dina Martina and Rossi?

Isn't that a drink?

like i said before man, you can look at those things and take them in different directions.

you could say he was a drug addict and attach all the stigma that comes with it, or you could say he suffered from extreme back pain that resulted from getting run over by a japanese destroyer in the pacific.

hell brett favre got addicted to vicodin and all he did was play football. you could say he's the greatest quarterback to play the game (true) or say he was a drunk and a drug addict.

i've never thought public officials sex lives mattered so long as they were doing their job. and was marilyn monroe in the mob?

i'd be interested in hearing how you think he could have handled the cuban missle crisis better, though. carpet bomb, full on invasion (against cubans with tactical nukes), or nuclear first strike?

JFK was a mediocre president, but I think it's missing the point to see that as an indictment of those who admire him (Gregoire) or make a play for his legacy (Obama). I was born a handful of years post-assassination (1969), but I see the similarity between JFK and Obama as a stylistic and symbolic one, not a similarity in competence, ideology, or policy. He was young, inspiring, and represented a wave of overdue change coming out of the repressive McCarthy years. It helped that as a Catholic, he was breaking down barriers about who could be president in America.

Yeah, he fucked up at the Bay of Pigs, but recovered with a deft performance during the Cuban Missile Crisis. He set the stage for the Vietnam War, but the Gulf of Tonkin and the escalation were all LBJ. But compare him to what came after, and he probably did better than any president except Bill Clinton. If Obama settled to that level as president I'd be disappointed, but it would be a billion times better than another GOP presidency.

some dude@31: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Campbell_Exner

Cascadian@32: agree 100%. I wasn't trying to indict Gregoire. I'm just making the comment that the adjective "JFK-esque" isn't an automatic swoon for some of us.

she's beautiful!

some dude@34:

Hell yes!

I wouldn't make a very good rock star or politician. I can't imagine what it would be like to have people throwing themselves at you all the time.

I actually kind of admire Bush Senior in one very small but specific way just because there doesn't seem to be any evidence that he ever cheated on Babs. And Carter, too.

On a side note, The Edgewater is really overrated as a meeting place. Great views, nice sitting room, but bland food and conference rooms.

I'm no Presidential historian, but I seem to recall back in the '92 election rumors of Old Bush having a string of affairs on Grandma Babs. I'm too lazy to look it up, though. I think the chick's name was Jennifer Fitzgerald or something.

So there you go. No need to admire Old Bush anymore for any reason.

She served under Bush "in a variety of positions" wikipedia: jennifer fitzgerald

Oh my god am I glad to not have to admire Bush Sr for anything. I remember the allegations, but I didn't realize they had actually been so unambiguously reported.

Thank you, Chris and some dude.

She smartly sucked all the money out of the women's community BEFORE she endorsed Obama.

@35 - it was common knowledge he slept with his driver. Even if the media in those days didn't report such things.