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1

Yeah! What Josh said.

Posted by elenchos | February 21, 2008 3:25 PM
2
Phase 2 better not have Capitol Hill in it. That’d be a little weird.

Yah. What makes the NYC subway system so great is the one station in Brooklyn, the one station in Manhattan, and the 466 stations at park-and-ride lots in the suburbs and exurbs, right?

I have a feeling every Seattle blogger owns stock in Quadrant Homes.

Posted by light rail advocate | February 21, 2008 3:26 PM
3

Josh - you committed the Horse's Ass Cardinal Sin: "Thou shalt not criticize a Democrat during his/her election year." It is their strict adherence that commandment that has this choirboy a little sick of HA's preaching and I've tuned out. For what it's worth.

Posted by Lionel Hutz | February 21, 2008 3:36 PM
4

Wait... so is it actually going to be on the ballot in 08? Have I missed this (totally possible)? Or are we still in the wishin' and hopin' stage?

Posted by exelizabeth | February 21, 2008 3:46 PM
5

It very likely will have capitol hill in it, in the form of the so-called "First Hill Streetcar" that will go on broadway from Aloha to Jackson and then downtown.

Posted by Andrew | February 21, 2008 3:49 PM
6

Ssh, even if people are now confused if you meant me or Will/HA (which you did), at least you tried to rethink it.

As to going north, it's politician speak to signal to Pierce County to STFU or they may not get any road funding when she line item vetoes projects to balance the budget. They're not getting light rail this cycle from ST2.1 - and that's a good thing for light rail. It never made sense - AT THIS TIME.

Now, why is our Seattle delegation not insisting that our Dem Governor respect Seattle and stop trying to shortchange us ... that's a good question ...

Posted by Will in Seattle | February 21, 2008 4:06 PM
7

@4: No, it's just Josh talking again.

Posted by J.R. | February 21, 2008 4:06 PM
8

Josh I could have just posted this on HA, but...

Josh is just dreading the shit eating party he is going to have to host with the Sierra Club for telling everyone to Vote No on Prop One and wait for the light rail only plan to come in 2008.

I’ll tape the video and title it: “Two ignorant ideologues and one cup.”

Posted by jimmy | February 21, 2008 4:16 PM
9

@4 - as I understand it, the Seattle and King County delegations may be wussing out and not fighting for it to be on the Nov 08 ballot, because they're worried about statewide races.

But ST2.1 will be built at some point.

Regardless, ST is already going to the UW and N 65th, so it's not that big a deal. Northgate is really so all the suburban people can do park and ride - they'll add it later.

In Vancouver BC, they "killed" the line to the airport for a while, but it eventually got built once the system was big enough.

Posted by Will in Seattle | February 21, 2008 4:26 PM
10

@2
What exactly is your point?

The light rail will have a station on Capitol Hill. that's a good start. You ahve to start somewhere. There's never been a rail system that didn't start by starting.

I think its on Broadway and John. This is smart -- this will get weekend ridership, as well as weekday. This will let the folks on Capitol Hill ride the train to downtown. And, it will allow folks who used to party in Fife and Redmond and Northgate to come converge and hit all the clubs on Capitol Hill.

There will be another station at the UW Stadium -- perfect for the football fans to come from the East Side and Federal Way. And it will have a few more in North Seattle, if you want to go from Capitol Hill you can go up to 65th, Northgate and that other station north of Northgate. This will allow all the Capitol Hill folks to go shopping at Northgate and eat at the Red Robin or the food court there. You can also walk to Best Buy, that crab restaturant, and Tony Roma's up there.

All good. Right?

Posted by Terramon | February 21, 2008 4:26 PM
11

@10,

Thanks. The comment @2 confused me too.

I'm getting a t-shirt that says: "@2, What exactly is your point?"

For some reason your frustration with their cryptic post cracked me up.

Posted by Josh Feit | February 21, 2008 4:37 PM
12

For the grace of God go I!

Goldy and I were for Prop 1 because we wanted 50 miles of light rail, and that this opportunity wouldn't come again. Whatever light rail plan gets to the ballot, it'll be a lot less than 50 miles. We also said that the roads in Prop 1 would be built anyway. Whether its 405 or 520, the roads are getting built. It turns out WE were right on that one.

And that last bit about Capitol Hill was just a joke.

Posted by Will/HA | February 21, 2008 4:56 PM
13

I wasn't being sarcastic.

Posted by elenchos | February 21, 2008 6:52 PM
14

"It has major implications on global warming, growth management, traffic congestion, and the economy."

No, it doesn't. Sheesh.

Posted by spankie | February 21, 2008 8:50 PM
15

The point is that more than one light rail station in the most densely-packed neighborhood in the state isn't "weird." The lack of any planning for rapid transit to other dense neighborhoods in the city (Belltown, Ballard, Queen Anne, etc.) is what's weird.

By advocating light rail only to the suburbs and exurbs, you are ONLY encouraging more sprawl. The north and east routes of ST2 only include maybe two stations that many people would ever walk to (Microsoft and downtown Bellevue). All of the other planned stations were to gigantic single-level new parking lots essentially in the middle of nowhere. I'm not including the Brooklyn to Northgate stations because it sounds like these will be built no matter what.

My comparison to the NYC subway system is because the planners of GOOD transit weren't satisfied with one transit station in a dense neighborood. They didn't build one station in Brooklyn and then start planning a sprawling route out to the Hamptons. That's why the NYC subway system has an over 50% ridership rate, most of whom do not own cars.

It's ridiculous that we're even considering stations to parking lots on the outskirts of Fife and Shoreline before building light rail to our densest neighborhoods. We have one station in Capitol Hill, but stations in Belltown, Queen Anne, Ballard, Greenwood, West Seattle, and even north Broadway, 15th, 23rd, and Madison Park make infinitely more sense than stations that are only accessible by car on the outskirts of the suburbs. That's why I made the quip about you being Quadrant Home stockholders. People in these new sprawling developments are the ONLY people who will benefit from Sound Transit's planned stations, and these stations will enable their bad behavior.

Posted by light rail advocate | February 22, 2008 8:36 AM
16

For comparison, here is a picture of the type of light rail stations you are advocating:
http://www.metrocouncil.org/Directions/development/dev2006/growthSep06A.htm

Here is a picture of a good light rail station, which you are not advocating and which ST's planned phase 2 of light rail includes zero of:
http://picasaweb.google.com/rnathan.ca/Trams/photo#5160295731276729618

Posted by light rail advocate | February 22, 2008 8:49 AM

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