Slog - Comments on Get Those Shackles Back On, STAT! http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat Girls are drinking more and doing more drugs! And, OMG, at the SAME time, the academic and work worlds have opened up to give girls some of the same opportunities boys have always had! How does that rule go again--if two things are correlated, one must cause the other? Bingo! Blame feminism! A generation of parents and educators have pushed to ensure that girls have the same opportunities as their male counterparts, with notable results. In 2007, for example, it was girls who dominated the national math and science competition sponsored by Siemens. But a growing number of reports show... Copyright 2008 Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:20:25 -0800 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:53:04 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by grumpypants Is this related to Hillary somehow?

]]> grumpypants http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934712 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934712 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:25:52 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle I'm sorry, I stopped reading after you mentioned Brittney.

Is she still a loon?

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934720 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934720 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:29:38 -0800 Comment by M Even if the inference from "correlated" to "causally connected" were reasonable, it doesn't tell you which way the causal arrow goes. Maybe the excess drinking and partying caused the science and math grades to go up.

]]> M http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934724 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934724 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:32:12 -0800 Comment by catalina vel-duray Go back ninety years ago, and you would see much the same hand wringing over the flappers.

]]> catalina vel-duray http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934726 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934726 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:33:06 -0800 Comment by Paulus Where exactly do they "blame feminism"?

]]> Paulus http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934734 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934734 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:38:19 -0800 Comment by pretentious males and females have always proven themselves to be equally stupid and irresponsible in virtually every forum.

...and equally smart, too, sometimes.

so what?

]]> pretentious http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934735 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934735 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:39:25 -0800 Comment by johnnie ECB, this might be taken as a critique of 'empowerment' if one thinks that drinking, fucking and breaking the law are neccessarily terrible terrible things. I think they're part of being fully human, which is what empowerment is all about. Score one for feminism.

]]> johnnie http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934737 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934737 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:40:38 -0800 Comment by markinthepark A generation of parents and educators have pushed to ensure that black people have the same opportunities as their white counterparts, with notable results... But a growing number of reports show that the message of equality might have a downside.

Teenage blacks now equal or outpace teenage whites in alcohol consumption, drug use and smoking, national surveys show. The number of blacks entering the juvenile-justice system has risen steadily over the past few years.

There, fixed it.

]]> markinthepark http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934743 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934743 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:44:03 -0800 Comment by markinthepark In the same breath, the young black people talked about feeling “empowered” because they can choose from myriad colleges and careers, and about how that “freedom” extends to partying at clubs, drinking and smoking. Experts worry that those feelings, coupled with a black teen’s natural sense of invincibility, can be a potent and dangerous combination.


"freedom"

]]> markinthepark http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934746 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934746 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:46:17 -0800 Comment by Kent Cudgel Always give the lady the bigger shot nowadays, right?

]]> Kent Cudgel http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934753 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934753 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:51:37 -0800 Comment by brandon but erica, they quote experts. EXPERTS! repeatedly! anonymously! and they're worried! and when anonymous experts worry about something, you probably should, too.

]]> brandon http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934755 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934755 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:53:03 -0800 Comment by Mr. Poe Booze & drugs kick ass. Three cheers for chicks!

]]> Mr. Poe http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934763 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934763 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:05:02 -0800 Comment by Dianna Wow ECB, for once.....

I completely agree! You just cracked me up.

]]> Dianna http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934769 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934769 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:16:26 -0800 Comment by pissy mcslogbot "Tell me, is there ANY trend among young women that can’t be blamed on all that ewwwyuckygross “empowerment”?"

ummmm, purity balls?

yay!!! balls...

]]> pissy mcslogbot http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934778 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934778 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:29:12 -0800 Comment by brandon h Yeah, its pretty sly how they try to pass that by the reader, but the implication is clear: because women are free they are fucking up. It probably wasnt their intention to imply that women's empowerment is a bad thing, but they did.

It's like saying black people with money atomically become crack heads. Solution? Don't let black people have money. Women getting drunk and doing drugs? Put them back in the kitchen!


]]> brandon h http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934784 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934784 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:36:59 -0800 Comment by elenchos Erica. I don't know what happened to you, but whatever it was, it's good. More.

]]> elenchos http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934790 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934790 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:46:55 -0800 Comment by matthew so erica, what do you think is causing the rise in the partying and crimes numbers? as you say, girls have always known drugs exist (actually you say that they weren't aware, but you mean the opposite of what you say). why are today's 17-year-old girls in more trouble than yesterday's?

]]> matthew http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934792 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934792 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:50:19 -0800 Comment by umvue Obviously linked to vaccines and autism.

]]> umvue http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934802 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934802 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:59:05 -0800 Comment by Jason Does anyone under 40 still use the word "empowerment"? That one sure took me back to undergraduate days...

]]> Jason http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934808 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934808 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:09:33 -0800 Comment by NapoleonXIV You've Come a Long Way, Baby...

]]> NapoleonXIV http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934813 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934813 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:17:12 -0800 Comment by Me I gotta agree. The negative tone of this article (well, at least this snippet... maybe the article is actually positive, but still) leaves the reader with the impression that feminism is bad! Bad for doing all these things to our young girls. It seems they should have just left all the editorial bits out of it. Cut out paragraph 1, and... every other paragraph except 2, and the article is fine.

Why were the other paragraphs even necessary?

]]> Me http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934815 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934815 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:19:39 -0800 Comment by Fnarf This is terrible! We must protect the delicate flower of your womanhood!

]]> Fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934817 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934817 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:24:52 -0800 Comment by pissy mcslogbot it's pretty obvious that these girls are not ashamed of, nor fear their vaginas enough.


thanks eve ensler, and oprah... for opening this pandoras' vajayjay.

]]> pissy mcslogbot http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934819 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934819 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 20:29:27 -0800 Comment by Andy Niable I'm not going to join in the chorus of sexism, but I am going to say I hope Obama picks a woman for his VP running mate to address the issue of inclusion. It is, after all, his style.

Oh, and why hasn't the Slog mentioned that it turns out Hillary DIDN'T win Douglas county after all? A recount shows he won ALL counties in Washington State, or so says http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004177136_webcount11m.html

]]> Andy Niable http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934856 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934856 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:38:23 -0800 Comment by Weevz Hmm, that's interesting, I believe that the article stated, "parents need to rethink the messages they're sending their daughters and teach them how to better manage their stresses. Other experts say that those who work with adolescents need to better tailor intervention programs to be effective for girls as well as boys"-not putting the shackles back on - to be necessary. I fail to see how if you actually read the whole article how you could possibly take it as an attack on feminism instead of what it is- an observation (backed up by multiple statistics) on changes in behavior of young girls.

]]> Weevz http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934866 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934866 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:07:14 -0800 Comment by NapoleonXIV Good God--even recreational misogyny is getting tedious.

]]> NapoleonXIV http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934870 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934870 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:12:57 -0800 Comment by Will in Seattle So, strange question ... why aren't parents upset their sons are beer-swilling sluts when they're underage? Who go around topless and make fools of themselves ...

Well?

]]> Will in Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934891 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934891 The Ladies Mon, 11 Feb 2008 23:28:26 -0800 Comment by Mr. Joshua The problem with gender equality is the lack of stipulations preventing social empowerment from resulting in young women adopting the worst traits normally ascribed to men.

]]> Mr. Joshua http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934910 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934910 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:39:22 -0800 Comment by markinthepark Am I the only young white male who is totally turned on by hardcore feminists? I only date feminists. I love the thrill of having someone with that fiery independence, who doesn't hesitate to say "fuck you!" when I deserve it. I sure as hell have no interest in fucking some waif who wants me to think for her.

]]> markinthepark http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934915 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934915 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:57:03 -0800 Comment by markinthepark And by the way, so the fuck what if young women are doing all the naughty things young men do? The theme of this article seems to be the Dobsonesque "WE MUST PROTECT OUR DAUGHTERS' PURITY". You know what old white dudes, fuck you. Women are going to have sex and do drugs and commit crimes just like the men, and if you don't like it you can go fuck yourselves.

]]> markinthepark http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934917 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934917 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:03:05 -0800 Comment by Brandon H #29 How dare you fetishize feminists!

(say it 5 times fast)

I kid, I kid.

]]> Brandon H http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934921 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934921 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 01:08:53 -0800 Comment by arandomdude How come these nuts don't get called down for being anti-freedom?
Absorb america's toxic atmosphere, wtf?

]]> arandomdude http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934935 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934935 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 03:03:30 -0800 Comment by arandomdude You weeves correlation does not equal causation as Erica pointed out at the BEGINNING of the article. Dude pay attention.

]]> arandomdude http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934936 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934936 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 03:06:15 -0800 Comment by Gloria @19: Female "agency" is what brings me back to first-year.

]]> Gloria http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934939 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934939 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 04:27:14 -0800 Comment by G in INdiana They said the same things about my grandmother when she was a flapper. She started to drink, smoke, act all wild and stuff. She had the best time of her life but managed to raise some pretty hung up daughters. My mom tried to break out of her house wife role when the next wave of feminism hit (70's) and my dad,, a caveman of vast expanse, figuratively smacked her back.
My daughter, who is a freshman in college, says the wildest of her pals are the ones who were raised by fundies and who were never taught the things she was.
Bottom line is this, if you do indeed keep a person down they are going to go crazy once they have a little freedom (I know I did, raised by semi fundies). If you teach a child how to use that freedom as they grow, they will not abuse it once they are in full possession of it. At least that is how it worked out with my kid.

]]> G in INdiana http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934944 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934944 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 05:56:32 -0800 Comment by Hard I kinda like shackled women, though I prefer rope. And a gag - that's really important. I could watch a tightly tied pretty woman, wriggling on the floor and making those funny little grunting and mewing sounds through her gag all day.

]]> Hard http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934947 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c934947 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 06:10:29 -0800 Comment by Jason Josephes WWII had The Greatest Generation. Looks like the next one will be The Easiest Generation. Once again, I was born too soon.

]]> Jason Josephes http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935005 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935005 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:31:22 -0800 Comment by Jiberish ok so this article went a bit overboard but the reason this is important and being tracked is that young women can become pregnant...girls who binge drink and get pregnant may not realize they are and continue drinking and smoking in their first trimester, the most critical time in a child's development. smoking and drinking are both risk factors for fetal and infant death. the take home message should be that we need to really focus on pre-conception health for young women so that births can be both planned and wanted.

]]> Jiberish http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935028 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935028 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:03:33 -0800 Comment by infrequent the article has hints of sexism, for sure. but there's a part of it i agree with that i do not believe is rooted in sexism, and it is this:

why must equality mean the lowest common denominator for both sexes? i would rather equality elevate both sexes.

take any negative male stereotype. here's one, men cheat. i would rather the modern view be that it's unacceptable for men to cheat, and it's unacceptable for women to cheat. we seem seem to be moving to the view that we must tolerate everyone having the worst traits.

i suppose that's what you'd expect. so, this article is just pointing out an observation: when given the choice, some women (just like men) will choose to excel, and some woman (just like men) will choose to party. that is interesting and of note.

the sexist slant comes from treating the "negative" choices as if they were a new phenomenon. because of that, it sounds like they were not a concern when men did them. that's the sexist angle.

]]> infrequent http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935029 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935029 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:07:02 -0800 Comment by Jiberish @39 its not a new phenomenon but its on the rise especially among women of color. when we look at these issues alot of times its not about 'empowerment' but coping strategies for dealing with issues that affect communities of color...aka racism

]]> Jiberish http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935044 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935044 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:21:11 -0800 Comment by Colin You might also consider this data in relation to a recent study showing that, statistically, more education = more boozing and depression. I'm sorry I don't have time to find the link. Maybe someone else has it.

Ignorance IS bliss.

]]> Colin http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935213 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935213 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:04:28 -0800 Comment by infrequent both intelligence and self-control are virtues. the world is pretty messed up right now because of a lack of both -- not to mention the fact that sexism exists.

wouldn't it be nice if we could set the bar higher for all people?

i certainly don't want to anyone how to live -- i value freedom and privacy -- it's just too bad people don't choose better. in the end, it's better to have a choice and choose wrongly, than to have no choice at all.

]]> infrequent http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935303 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/02/get_those_shackles_back_on_stat#c935303 The Ladies Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:53:04 -0800