Comments on Adam! NOOOOOOO!!!

You know, you can always wear their jersey, but wear your original teams undies.

orioles are in the basement for the next 12 years. with tejada a known junkee, jones will be a yankee once his contract is up and IF he becomes the player he is supposed to be.

Mariners are now CONTENDERS!!! Thx B-more!!!

Well, if you do become an O's fan, you have my sympathy. The Red Sox and Yankees have been kicjing the shit out of them for time out of mind. Rough division.

adam jones WAS NOT that good last year.

Tejada is an Astro

Terry, he was better than you think, and he's going to be even better this year. Jones was better than either Ibanez or Guillen once you factor in defense. And SeMe, we're not contending for anything; we've got two good pitchers and maybe three good players on the field. We're going to suck donkey balls.

Worst. Trade. Ever.

I will continue to say it because it's true. If you think this was a good trade you simply don't know much about baseball.

Had he stayed, Adam Jones as a hitter would've run into the Cammy Dilemma: Safeco's expansive left and center field and stagnant, oppressive seaside jetstream-fueled air would've killed his power. Plus, he's not known for his plate discipline, so he would've racked up the K's like Cammy.

He would've been an excellent defender in RF, though. The Orioles get an upgrade in CF, and Adam Jones moves to a hitting environment in Camden Yards that will better allow him to succeed.

Adam Jones may turn out to be a fine player, but he is no Ken Griffey, Jr. or A-Rod. He may end up being Jose Cruz, Jr--a career .250 hitter.

The M's had to make this trade whether we like it or not.

That's a pretty bold statement Andrew.

I disagree, although it is tough to give up that much talent, that is what is required to do to get a top of the rotation starting pitcher. This team needed not only depth in the rotation, but quality depth. We need pitchers to eat up innings so we don't overwork our bullpen.

Bedard is a premier strike-out pitcher, and the one-two punch of Bedard and Felix is going to be a tough combo to beat.

Maybe Bedard will throw 700 strikeouts and the Mariners lack of solid defense won't matter.

Bedard is good, no doubt, but we got raped like a drunk prom date on this one.

Poll Watcher,

You're an idiot. Look at what the Mets gave up for Santana, then think about what you said. We got taken to the fucking cleaners on this. I've been reading about this trade for weeks and have yet to see any single shred of evidence that says we're doing anything other than completely bending over for Baltimore.

Sure we got a great pitcher, but we got our farm system raped and one of our best relievers removed in the process. That's not even considering the money differential and the fact that we had Jones under club control for 6 years.

One plus: his name rhymes with Gaydar.

Poll Watcher, how are we going to do when the other three starters are working? How are Felix and Bedard going to do when no one on the team can play defense for shit?

78-84. You can call me on it.

Smegmalicious- Santana had a no-trade clause so he could determine exactly where he wanted to go. The Twins had to decide, do we take this crappy package from the Mets, or do we roll the dice and hope the two first round picks we get for losing Santana to free agency actually pan out. Bedard has two years left on his deal at an incredibly low salary, cheaper than Gil Meche!

As for our farm system getting raped, not even close. We still have plenty of bats and arms at the ready. And don't get your panties in a bunch about Sherill. Sherill had a great season, but is over 30, had one great season out of the pen, a couple of decent ones. Now Morrow can step into his role as the set up man. And with a much better rotation, our pen will not be used as much.

Look-as long time fans were tired of "rebuilding" years. This was a good trade, it gives u a good rotation and we still have a good infield, and good hitting, pitching killed us last year. this move makes us better than the Angels and A's just like that.

fnarf youre wrong on this one. but, you will only see the light once were into the season. i got good seats this year- reserve view. im gonna see some good 1-0 games fo Sho.

Fnarf -
What is the difference defensively this year and last? Guillen had a great arm and no range. We have the same CF, the same LF, and now Wilkerson, who has good range and a good arm in RF. Our IF D is among the best in baseball.

And for the rest of the rotation, Silva is an innings eater and groundball pitcher that will fit in perfectly in this stadium with this infield defense.

Batista and Washburn will round out the rotation, which isn't too shabby for a 4 and 5.

I am not saying this team is making the playoffs, but at least they can make a run at the division against a heavily overrated Angels team missing Escobar for the first month of the seaason.

But I guess you would have preferred HoRam starting 5 days a week and praying that Adam Jones was the next Ken Griffey Jr instead of the next Jose Cruz Jr. That was a team destined for success!

Poll Watcher,

At best Bedard makes the team 6 wins better (and that's being generous). Losing Guillen, losing Jones, putting Wilkerson and Ibanez in the outfield, and not dumping Sexson removes much of that benefit. The combined effect of all this is: we have gained about 2-3 wins.

Think about this. We've mortgaged the future for a player that improves us by 3 wins at most. 3 more wins wouldn't have got us into the playoffs last year. AND THAT TEAM OVERACHIEVED! If everything breaks right the M's still will only win about 90 games next year.

BTW Bedard doesn't have an incredibly low Salary. He's going to make between 6 and 8 million this year, and probably close to 15 next year.

Andrew- Gil Meche $11 million a year, Carlos Silva $12 million a year, Washburn $10 million a year, so yeah I think Bedard is cheap for a Cy Young candidate.

And maybe we mortgaged the future, maybe we didn't. Ryan Anderson, Jose Cruz Jr, Gil Meche, Matt Thornton- we have had plenty of "can't miss prospects" that have missed badly.

Comparing his salary to the horrendous overpayments of Gil Meche and Carlos Silva and calling it a good deal is bad logic. Those guys are both far overpaid for what they bring to the party, not to mention Bedard projects to make 12 million or so year after next.

Adam Jones wasn't a prospect. Adam Jones was one of the 5 or 6 best players on our team. Calling him a prospect is foolish and shows that you, like most of the Mariner's front office, don't know how to evaluate baseball talent.

Sure Santana had a no trade clause, but he shows that the price of pitching, in terms of talent, is far, FAR, lower than what we paid.

After this trade we're left with an outfield which can't play defense at the corners, a DH who can't hit, a first baseman who can't hit, a struggling young second baseman, a couple of good starters and a bullpen with holes in it.

Sure our team is a little better, but not better enough to seriously contend, and the cost we paid to have a marginally better second place team makes it grossly harder for us to win in the future.

Andrew worst trade ever: Mariners trade P Derek Lowe and C Jason Varitek to Boston for P Heathcliff Slocumb.

At this point Adam Jones = Jose Cruz Jr. (yes Tippy I agree with you)its the rest of the young and not so young arms I hate to see going.

Adam Jones is the second coming of Jeremy Reed.

Not a great trade, not the worst in the world. Had we given up Clement and Morrow -- who we should flip with another some old fart (Sexson?) to Cincinatti for Jay Bruce immediately -- and Triunfel or Aumont, yes, definitely the worst.

Jones is definitely a better OF at this point than Wilkerson, and losing Sherrill hurts (as losing Tillman and Butler will in a few years).

But we ended up with a bonafide franchise pitcher who actually has a slim chance of re-signing with us (as opposed to Santana, who had none). And we draft players to restock our farm system every year, right?

I have to say it's very refreshing to hear people beating each up over something that involves neither presidential candidates nor pitbulls nor The Obesity Epidemic.

Or guns.

You're crazy. Our infield defense is TERRIBLE -- Sexson is one of the worst 1B in the history of the game, Lopez and Betancourt are lousy. Ibanez is already one of the worst OF in the game, and he's a year older. Wilkerson is what you call a "former baseball player" who is immobile out there.

Don't talk to me about "arms"; tell me how many balls they convert into outs. Not too damn many, is what. We have the worst defensive team in the AL.

And we can't score runs.

My thoughts exactly, Sven. Ahh, baseball. It almost makes it feel kike springtime just to be talking about it again.

Why do you hate Hank Greenberg and Sandy Koufax so much, 5280?

Koufax was Jewish? I didn't know that. "Like," obviously.

You didn't know Koufax was Jewish? I thought you were old. He used to refuse to pitch on Yom Kippur -- even in the World Series.

Of course, I also refuse to pitch on Yom Kippur in the World Series, but the jaded media doesn't care.

That's only because Jessica Simpson wasn't in the stands. You know how the media is these days.

frederick r, Big Sven - oh yeah!

Fnarf - I don't buy your screed. Sorry palioliolo. I bet you (again) a beer that the M's win more than 78 games.

Erik Bedard: Welcome to Seattle. We love ya. Stretch that rib cage, jog around town, and find yourself a nice extension plan. Seattle is the Vancouver of Canada. How's it feel to already have stuff?

Andrew, I daresay I know a helluva lot more baseball than you. The M's had two choices: 1) Stand pat and have another mediocre season, or 2) Gamble and go get the best available pitcher out there (with Santana gone).

For the long term it could turn out poorly, but who knows. Plenty of "can't-miss" players turn out to be busts (Hello, Ryan Anderson). But this much is true: No team wins goes far in the playoffs without at least a couple of first-rate pitchers. Finally the Mariners have that.

Santana was also going to be a free agent at the end of this season. Bedard has two years left on his contract.

M's will win 90+ games.

bigyaz,

I guarantee you don't know more about baseball than I do. I crunch the numbers incesently and run simulated seasons. I have 30 or 40 different computer programs I've written to simulate different aspects.

If the Mariners had stood pat, they go into 2009 knowing what they have in Adam Jones, Wlad could be ready for the big leagues, they are out from under the twin albatroses of Richie Sexson and Jose Vidro, Jeff Clement may be ready to take over for Johjima and they have extra money to spend. Plus they have a good farm system going forward. It sets them up to win in 2009, 2010 and beyond.

Sure the Mariners are now set up to do well in the playoffs, but how the fuck are they going to make the playoffs when they are the 6th best team in the AL? (Detroit, NY, Boston, Cleveland, and Anaheim are all better)

Calling Adam Jones just a prospect is just dumb. Bill James proved 20 years ago that you can project a players major league performance based on his minor league numbers with a high degree of certainty. What you said about being busts can apply to any player at any time. Beltre, Washburn, Ichiro, and Bedard could all be busts next year. Adam Jones is no more likely to not perform than anyone else. In fact, Bedard is MORE LIKELY TO BE A BUST BECAUSE PITCHERS ARE FRAGILE AND HE HAS AN INJURY HISTORY.

Saying we have to gamble here is asinine. That would be like me saying I want a plasma TV, so I should put my paycheck on 19 on the roulette wheel. A better option would be to save and buy the TV when it makes more financial sense.

The Mariners overachieved greatly last year. They pythagorean wins were only 78. This means that they got quite lucky last year, and all things being equal would struggle to win as many games next year. Bedard makes the team marginally better, but I fail to see any math or projection system that shows how they win more than about 85 games.

Good teams don't make trades like this. Teams that win build from within. That's how the Yankees won their championships. That is how Cleveland is building. Detroit's pitching staff and much of their talent is from within. The A's, Braves, and Twins all build from within. None of those teams trade tons of prospects for one player unless they are just one player away from winning. The Mariners were at least 4 players away from winning and remain so.

But Andrew, I haven't even had any popcorn yet.

And Fnarf, I actually remember watching Koufax pitch, which I doubt anyone else around here can say, so I guess that makes me old. But I was just a kid then.

"I crunch the numbers incesently and run simulated seasons. I have 30 or 40 different computer programs I've written to simulate different aspects."

Jeez, Andrew. I'll acknowledge that you're an obsessed geek. But the numbers thing doesn't prove that you know anything about baseball. It just shows that you like numbers a lot.

"Teams that win build from within. That's how the Yankees won their championships. "

youre joking right? these guys BUY their championships.