Comments on STFU

Jesse Jackson Jr. isn't classy? You don't say.

Jesse Jackson has never said anything outrageous for publicity. That's undefathigable.

this is no different than bill vilifying obama in NH recently. in truth though, no one will know the real reason except hillary and maybe her advisors. and how can anyone even support hrc after seeing how the corporate dollar has affecting her administration?

Jesse Jackson is Obama's co-cgair? OK, that tears it - I'll vote for Fuckabee before I'll vote for someone who takes Jackson seriously.

i am not surprised at this at all -- it's an easy and predictable shot. as i said previously, the misty eyes would have been better if they appeared after a different question.

not that clinton needs my defense, but hello?!?! when you are stressed and focused on important issues, and someone asks a very personally insulting question, you just might have an emotional reaction. that doesn't mean you don't care about something else less or more... it's that you have feelings.

but it's all about the spin. clinton's group would probably do best to leave this alone... let jr's insensitivity speak for itself (will help clinton), and let the blogs defend her. she does better when she's no attacking or defending, but when she's stating her case.

wtf do you know about class?

Seriously, seriously, STFU! From the way everyone is acting, you would think that Hillary started bawling and ripping out her hair.

And they say sexism is dead.

You start the post with "STFU" and end up criticizing Jackson for not being "classy."

I think that's funny.

in light of their history, it's perfectly rational to consider anything the clintons say or do as cold and calculated. they simply do not deserve anyone's trust.

but i think by "appearance" he probably meant poll-wise, not her physical attributes. that just wouldn't even make sense.

regardless of what he meant, this is creepy. enough with the "breakdown" already. just lay off her, dude.

Is Hillary really that classy herself?

@7 nobody thinks she started bawling. that's silly. her eyes welled up. some people think this helped humanize her (positive). some people think this showed she is weak (negative/sexist). it is being discussed as if it was a huge deal, sure.... but can you imagine if any candidate was actually bawling what it would be like?

I can't wait until one of the other candidates drops a baby or something and we finally forget about this shit once and for all.

@10 - all i know is that if we don't vote for her, we'll be attacked by terrorists just like the new british pm, brown.

addendum: okay, jr did says "tears", which is likely a trick to over exaggerate what actually happened to paint it in a negative light. but almost everyone here is in hyper-sensitive-over-exaggeration mode, or so it would seem.

Last week JJ Jr. compared Obama with OJ Simpson. (Slate magazine had an item: http://www.slate.com/id/2181356/nav/tap3/)

The Obama campaign should be rethinking his involvement.

Boy this little clip must have set up a perfect storm of glee at Clinton HQ. JJJr idiotically manages to make HRC look even more sympathetic and Obama look more black, in the bad old Jackson/Sharpton way. If O can finesse his way through this one (preferably by throwing Junior out of the Hancock Tower in broad daylight), he really is God.

STFU indeed! This is going way overboard, and your criticism is adding to it.

hillary seems to have been very careful in whom she chooses to surround herself with at the higher levels. she lets the crazy attacks come form the lower, more expendable rouge staffers!

Sounds like many of you commenters are confusing Jesse Jackson Jr. with his father.

Gee Erica. I guess your approach is better than Josh's N-bombs. For what it's worth.

@20

No shit. He's still trying to bitch out of an apology like he did nothing wrong. Asshole.

@9... I'm guessing he did mean physcial attributes since the original question put to her was about her hair.

And @11... The Daily Show last night (yes, I'm watching, even though he's a scab, I can't help it), showed a montage of prominent male politicians actually crying. Like, sobbing/bawling as opposed to voice breaking/possible tears. It was quick so I didn't catch who everyone was, but George HW Bush was definitely there. So, politicians do cry in public, and there isn't always a media shitstorm about it.

Yes. STFU. Right on ECB.

All thos focusing on one "emotional" moment for HRC is sexist bs.

At least popular perception is women are allowed to cry. Can you imagine how a male candidate would have been pilloried if he had shown such "weakness?"

With apologies to Edna Wheeler Wilcox:

"Laugh and the world laughs with you,
Cry and you win New Hampshire."

Whatever it takes, Hillary, just do it. If people call you "lachrymose" that's because they have a decent vocabulary. If they call you a "bitch" remind them of W's mother who has pretty well trail-blazed that path.

22 - the original question was about her hair?? that is sexist enough alone, jesus. i thought it was about how tough it is being "on the road." i guess i missed that detail.

well whatever jj,jr meant by "appearance", it's inexcusable and i agree he should just shut up about the incident already. and wtf is anyone from jesse jackson's family doing in obama's campaign?

@24:

asshole bush tears up regularly. so does his asshole dad.

asshole romney has done it multiple times in this campaign.

this is just a preview of the hell we're in for in the summer & fall.

@22, I don't remember that on the Daily Show. Are you sure it was TDS? Or was it Colbert or another late night talk show host?

ECB, how do you characterize HRC's "moment?" How do you perceive what happened? What's your take?

Do you have any comment on the response of John Edwards to HRC's "moment?" You've been silent about how your man reacted.

Why does Obama give the son of a man who lost two presidential elections a position on his campaign trail? To get black votes? He should realize that the son of JJ is going to be like his father, polarizing and fuck up the campaign. I hope Obama rethinks his choice of campaign staffers and has a private and honest talk with JJ Jr pretty soon or he's going to lose the primaries.

Honestly, I think JJ himself is jealous of how likable Obama is now compared to when JJ was running in the 80s. I also think that JJ has some issues with Obama being half black, not playing the old civil rights card like he's trained his kid to play, and not personally asking JJ to help out his campaign. I think it was a good decision to not ask Sharpton and Jackson for any help. Frankly, they don't think before they speak. This isn't the 70's anymore and quite frankly they scare white voters as well as black voters, a good number of them who think the two of them are jokes in today's time.

@22: i said two things in that post:

1) nobody thinks she started bawling.

2) but can you imagine if any candidate was actually bawling what it would be like?

i think both of those still stand. but if a candidate did cry, i (really!) will totally change my view on that. seriously.

but i'd also like to reiterate that i do not think what JR did was appropriate, or that it will help obama any. i'm just trying to be clear in my criticism.

@28, it was the moment of zen, if I recall correctly.

And @26, well, the original question referenced her hair. It was from a woman who basically asked "how do you do it, getting up and looking upbeat and having perfectly coifed hair and appearance, every day on the campaign trail? It must be tough..."

Okay--I just crossed the e-picket line and watched the Jon Stewart clip on the whole thing.

All I can say is that this is the stupidest debate and/or "scandal" that I've ever had the misfortune to witness.

crying allowing? yes. scrutinizing crying? yes. scrutinizing timing of crying? yes. hello ladies and gentlemen - we are in examining the motives- "authenticity" - of the potential leader of the free world. if you can't take the heat.... quick "where am i and what do they want me to say/cry?" crying is not gender issue -- what brings someone to tears is not either - dowd points out hillary was "crying for us"... "i don't want us to fall backwards". if that is what her genuine concern is --- mercy me. let's go forward not backwards to the 2 same families running the white house for the last 16 years!!!!
voting O for women everywhere!

@31.. definitely understood both your points, I guess I was just trying to respond to your #2 and say that politicians have cried and the reaction isn't as intense as it was for HRC... But, "politician" is maybe different from "candidate", I suppose (i.e., it's probably a bigger deal if a candidate does it than an elected official).

@32: Then that woman went and voted for Obama!

Remember the scream that destroyed Howard Dean? The replay of his weird rebel yell was so over-the-top that a good case can be made for the media being the actual catalyst of his downfall. HRC's opposiiton is trying to replicate that and unoriginal major media outlets are playing follow-the-leader as usual.

oh adding to what I said for my post at @30.

But why would Obama be associating himself with the son of a man who called NYC "Hymietown"? Bad move...

A Clinton resorting to a cheap political gimmick? Perish the thought!

If she wasn't hammin' it up, I'll eat my hat. She's a faker. And yet, still scads more qualified for the office than Obama.

Something that's been irking me is the fact that everything re: HRC gets filtered through the vagina lens.

The whole Edwards thing REALLY rubbed me the wrong way-- and not because of what he said, but because of how her people spun it.

HRC was all high-and-mighty when she thought she was gonna win, but after Iowa her true colors came out. She ripped off them gloves and was ready for battle. She laid into Obama and Edwards BIG TIME-- she got nasty and got personal.

HRC threw the first punch.

And then, when it appeared that it might not be working-- that she might not win in New Hampshire, that people might not like her-- she stages a mini-sobfest.

WHAT?!

Obama was, like usual, the bigger person-- he didn't even go there, didn't engage the media in dirty politics.

Edwards, however, dove right in. His comments, while being snide and perhaps a little below-the-belt, were in no way SEXIST and, honestly, she deserved it.

(Plus, she had just kicked him in the groin umpteen times... Wasn't it time for him to get a swing in?)

She was the one, after all, who instigated the whole "let's fight dirty" thing at the New Hampshire debate.

Look, she's asking us to trust her with the highest job in the country, arguably in the world. When you're the president, you're going to get tired. Cranky. People aren't going to always like you. In fact, a lot of people are going to hate you. You're going to have to make crappy decisions that will make people say crappy things about you. You're not always going to get your way and things won't always go the way you would like them to.

HOWEVER...

You can't fucking cry about it. At least not in public. Seriously. Had HRC been a dude, and had he TEARED UP in PUBLIC because people said some mean things/it was looking like he wasn't going to win, he would be DONE AND OVER.

Why is there the implication that, since she's a girl, she's expected to cry (chicks are EMOTIONAL, dig it?) and that, because Edwards criticized it, that he's some misogynistic prick? So me, that's the real sexism-- the fact that we are all supposed to think that she-is-woman-hear-her-roar but at the same time only handle her with our special lacy gloves on 'cause she be fragile and he FEELINGS might get hurt.

The double standard is bullshit.

(On a side note, if I hear one more time about how HRC is the first woman anything, I'm going to puke. Sure, it's "historical." But I'd say a BLACK PRESIDENT is far more historical that a white woman who is a part of the establishment.)

I don't hold HRC to a higher standard than anyone else, but I do hold her to the same standard. I wouldn't want my president, male or female, crying when they get stressed out. (In public, at least... I don't give a shit if Bushie cries into his pillow like a little boy every night... Just don't do it at a press conference. Hold your shit together, you know?...)

If you can't handle sleepless nights, endless meetings and press events, people saying mean things about you, and s shitton of stress then, well, maybe this isn't the job for you.

Who knows if it was fake or not? Who among us knows anything about Hillary besides how we've seen her portrayed in the media? The real debate should be why her tears turned the tide of the election. If a man had teared up like that he would have been mocked and laughed out of the election. Talk about sexism.

@40 - 100%.

40 - for the most part i agree, but i still think it was pretty fucking dumb for edwards to try and capitalize on it.

@43. I don't think he was capitalizing on it. I think he just wasn't thinking before he spoke. He said what a lot of people were thinking.

The multi layers of crap we will have to wade through in this upcoming election is mind numbing, especially given the fact we might not live in a democracy anymore. That said, I have been sucked into the Dem Primary because it is the only drama going. Clinton set a couple traps for her rivals with the sign guy and her emotional stunt. Headstrong Edwards was snared, and Obama tried to stay out of it. Divide and conquer is what she is doing. After all, more than half liberals are female, and I am not sure the % of African Americans are. Obama is trying to transcend bipartisanship and race politics, and Hillary is trying to manipulate emotion her way with the fact she is a female. If her stunts get her the nomination, the liberals and progressives deserve to loose the next election, because that is what she will do. She polls the worst against Republicans. Please keep in mind her bunch is the one that advised Kerry.

"Maybe I have liberated us to actually let women be human beings in public" -HRC, today

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080109/D8U2KIGG2.html

hmm

So much of Clinton's campaign is so contrived and fabricated that criticism like this, especially in the heat of the moment of a narrow loss, is to be expected. If you compare the post election speeches in Iowa, its all right there. Clinton is on stage in front of a bussed in crowd of labor union members with a who's who of the Camelot 90's regime of her husband on stage: Allbright, Gen. Clark, Slick Willy himself, etc. Then there is Obama, after a huge win surrounded by a roaring throng of young, REAL, everyday Iowans. Clearly a ground swell of GENUINE popular support. Cut to New Hampshire... CLinton makes her victory speech with all the youngest faces in the audience strategically placed right behind her and not a single famous face from her Iowa stage anywhere in sight. It is a smart move, a polished, professional campaign move, but it is also a fabrication, and nobody realizes these things and is as frustrated by them more than the people who are in a bitter battle against her for the Dem nomination. The fact is speculation that ANYTHING HRC does is not genuine is simply the result of the kind of politics the Clintons engage in. So yeah, taking chauvenist pot shots at her display of emotions as feminine weakness is out of bounds, but suggesting that it was calculated and not genuine is warrented and something anyone who knows anything about the Clinton political machine should considder.

Lost in the storm of the meaning of her "emotional moment" is the fact that JJjr wasn't saying the tears were faked (that question was asked by the interviewer.)

He was playing the race card.

With talk of Katrina and SC being 45% black, that's all this was about. But Obama is a different kind of politician, right?

longball-

Let me get this straight: you're complaining that Clinton having young people stand behind her in NH is a "fabrication"? What planet are you from?

The rabid reaction from the Obama supporters today is really pathetic.

...SOME Obama supporters. ;^)

Big Sven, how do I get a job like yours? How much does Clinton Inc. pay you?

I would not attribute the remarks of Jackson, Jr. to Obama any more than I would the criminality of Clinton bundler Norman Hsu to Clinton herself. Jackson, Jr. just has a titular role with the campaign. I think there are roughly a million co-chairs for each campaign.

And to follow Erica's logic closely, given that Clinton alone among Democratic candidates is taking PAC money, is Clinton also personally culpable for the misdeeds of, say, the oil companies oiling her campaign coffers? If so, perhaps it was the price of gas that caused her tears.

Now, on the other hand, Clinton herself personally authorized flat-out lying about Obama's record on choice, a monstrously opportunistic misdeed of far greater magnitude than the statement of some errant Obama supporter.

Big Sven - Not complaining, in fact i complimented them on realizing how well it works for Obama's campaign. Just pointing out it is an example of how calculated and deliberate everything HRC's campaign does. My point being, given that, it is completely appropriate to assume, or wonder if her show of emotion was deliberate and calculated. My personal belief, she's not THAT good of an actor, so it looks real to me. But i think Erica telling anyone to "STFU" for asking that question is absurd. How on earth that is a "rabid" reaction on my part is beyond me. I think ECB's post is more "rabid".

Man, alot of you really have over active imaginations.

Again, it pains me to say this but Erica is right. STFU!

The media has completely blown this out of proportion and now all the paranoid schizo's are coming up with conspiracy theories . Get over it and get back to the issues...like do either of them have a REAL science policy? I have yet to see this from any of them, although comparing Hillary's site to Obama's she seems to have a better thought out policy.

Erica, this is very insightful, meaningful, needed criticism of JJJr. What say you about those abortion flyers?

An email I sent Jesse Jackson Jr:
Hello Mr Jackson
I enjoyed your interview re Hilary Clinton. I was pretty sure I was going to vote for Obama but your interview really swayed me. I'm disgused that Obama would allow someone who holds such ignorant stereotypes on him team. Really, Hillary a narcist? It's ironic considering there are so many African American politicians who DO fit the negative stereotypes- Cynthea "I'll f*ck you up" Mckinney, Marion "Crackhead" Barry, and your own father- Jesse "Babydaddy" Jackson. Did you cry over OJ Simpson getting away with a double murder? Did you cry over the rape hoax your father helped perpetuate which lead to 5 innocent men getting on the cover of Time with the word "rapist" soiling their family name? Did you cry over all the dead in the nightclub fire due to the owners breaking fire code out of greed? Your father's influence directly made those deaths happen. You sure are your father's son, who will no doubt continue to keep African Americans down so that you always have your victims ready.