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1

If they haven't made an arrest then they have NOT done everything they are supposed to do.

Posted by monkey | January 7, 2008 1:22 PM
2

What Monkey said.

Posted by Dan Savage | January 7, 2008 1:24 PM
3

Oh, yeah. And if they arrest the wrong guy then you want to crucify them for that.

Maybe the problem with policing in Seattle is that there are too many hippies and anarchists and punks who make their job impossible. Maybe that's why it's so hard for them to find recruits.

Posted by elenchos | January 7, 2008 1:25 PM
4

@3

It's always fun to watch people who blame everyone else but themselves for their own failings... except when it's the police doing it.

Posted by Packratt | January 7, 2008 1:31 PM
5

Did the cops tell you something different when you called to fact check the letter?

Posted by PA Native | January 7, 2008 1:32 PM
6

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment: assault investigations don't wrap up in an hour like on TV. I'm awaiting the police report, so we'll see what that says.

@3-SPD isn't the only department having recruiting problems. It's actually a nationwide issue which is generally chalked up to the (formerly) stable economy/job market.

Posted by Jonah S | January 7, 2008 1:38 PM
7

I'm not saying they should arrest someone for the sake of arresting someone. I'm just saying, don't say you've done everything you're supposed to do if you haven't done everything you're supposed to do.

They make it sound like, "we made a report, Jesus H, what more do you want from us?"

Besides, they got the guy's license plate number. It's not like they don't have any solid leads.

Posted by monkey | January 7, 2008 1:45 PM
8

@6

The SPD has been understaffed for years and years, not just recently. Why is that?

@4

What are you talking about?

Posted by elenchos | January 7, 2008 1:49 PM
9

So, the SPD has to call the Stranger to get the facts out there? You didn't call them in the first place? Funny, in journalism school we were taught that the journalist is supposed to check things out BEFORE printing them. Huh.

Posted by bigyaz | January 7, 2008 1:51 PM
10

@8

I was talking about you echoing the oft repeated excuse used by SPD officers in response to reports of misconduct or selective enforcement issues like the one reported here. In fact, one such officer even made that same excuse in reponse to the original slog post.

It gets a bit old to hear the police and their apologists claim that more money and respect is needed if we are to expect professional behavior from our police officers...

After all, it sounds more like a threat than an excuse after a while. One would think the police should work towards earning respect and raises by accepting accountability and oversight before demanding such things.

Posted by Packratt | January 7, 2008 2:05 PM
11

@6 & @4: We've had a war with stoploss orders that kept many potential recruits in the services longer than anyone signed up for. Then Blackwater et.al. pay more once they do get out(if they aren't disabled). Also using the National Guard so hard and long for the war is depleting police and fire departments nationwide.

Posted by anna | January 7, 2008 2:08 PM
12

@10, oh i get what you are saying now. i didn't get it the first time either. it sounded like you were criticizing "us" the sloggers, but you are criticizing the police for blaming everyone. and then you say it's not funny, though, because we need to expect action from police, not excuses.

Posted by infrequent | January 7, 2008 2:08 PM
13

@12,

Exactly, thanks for summing it up better than my addled mind did!

Posted by Packratt | January 7, 2008 2:12 PM
14

Packratt, I know you are obsessed with the police.

So is it a fact that the SPD is understaffed? Is the number of cops per capita in Seattle above or below average? And by how much?

You're calling it an excuse and a threat. Well, the threat and extortion thing makes you sound like a paranoid nut. Saying that does not win you converts.

But you call it an excuse. I'm asking you: isn't it a fact? Isn't it simply a measurable statistic that you can go and look at and say "Sure enough! There are not that many cops in Seattle!"

And again, this has been true for many years, when the unemployment rate was high and when it was low, and long before the Iraq war. I'd like to understand exactly how the SPD is expected to function with far fewer cops than comparable cities.

Posted by elenchos | January 7, 2008 2:23 PM
15

What Monkey said.

See, this is what happens when you don't live in million dollar condos ...

Posted by Will in Seattle | January 7, 2008 2:40 PM
16

oh, and if they haven't found them in 72 hours, there is more than a 95 percent chance they never will.

A cold hard fact of the police biz.

Posted by Will in Seattle | January 7, 2008 2:41 PM
17

@14

I fail to see how a supposed lack in funding makes it difficult for the police to do basic police work, especially when the victims are cooperative and have given very detailed identifying information. Seems to me that it would be an easy case that supposedly overworked police officers would welcome for a change, instead of whining and making excuses about it.

I also fail to see how being understaffed is somehow a valid excuse for misconduct, and yes they do use this as an excuse in brutality cases.

Whether or not the SPD is understaffed or underfunded is irrelevent to me in these regards, the officers should still do their jobs in a fashion that is compatible with the laws of the city that they are being paid to protect.

If the pay is insufficient for that in their minds, then they should look elsewhere for work instead of threatening the public by refusing to do their jobs correctly or taking out their financial frustrations on the public.

Posted by Packratt | January 7, 2008 2:49 PM
18

They can find out who the guy was with one ten-minute phone call to the rental car agency. If the agency doesn't want to give out the information, they can have a subpoena in an hour.

Posted by Fnarf | January 7, 2008 3:03 PM
19

@14

Let me put it this way.

If you had a bunch of employees demand a pay raise and less work who refused to do their jobs right and gave your company a bad name by abusing customers that did nothing wrong, would you be willing to give them that raise?

Where I work, you get raises for doing your job right and making customers happy. Guess the police live in opposite land where you expect raises and easier work for abusing people and refusing to do your job.

Posted by Packratt | January 7, 2008 3:21 PM
20

@17 -
Understaffing is not an excuse. It's not a threat. It's an explanation.

Police officers in general do not measure how professional they intend to be by how much they are getting paid. I doubt any of them think, "Wow, I'm getting paid OT today. I'll bust fewer heads and arrest more people."

Do you really need someone to explain to you how understaffing leads to brutality and misconduct charges?

Really?

Do you really need someone to explain to you how a higher wage and safer working conditions lead to a more qualified candidate pool, more competitive entrance requirements, and more personal job satisfaction?

Really?

And when the police make an arrest in this case, are you prepared to thank them and apologize for being inpatient?

And if they don't make an arrest in this case, are you prepared to give them the benefit of trust or will you just believe they didn't care because the victim likes gays?

Posted by six shooter | January 7, 2008 3:24 PM
21

@19 -- If you hire two people to do the work of ten people, demand they meet the standards of those ten people, subject them to constant second-guessing and threaten them with personal liability, should you be surprised when it takes them an extra day to get the job done?

Posted by six shooter | January 7, 2008 3:27 PM
22

@20

The benefit of trust?

Last time I gave the SPD the benefit of trust I ended up being mistreated by them for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

Sorry, but you guys used up all your trust with me, go begging for it from someone you haven't abused or refused to help.

Posted by Packratt | January 7, 2008 3:42 PM
23

Packratt, dude. Between you and me? You are not very good at this.

See, the fact that you were abused does not magically give you insight into the solution to the law enforcement problems in Seattle. It might make you a good poster child but that's all. It helps to prove that the problem exists but does nothing to explain the cause or how to fix it.

As far as I can tell, all you want is revenge against the police, while what everybody else wants is both justice and safe streets. You have nothing to offer to make that happen except a lot of anger.

Posted by elenchos | January 7, 2008 3:50 PM
24

For the record, I'm not a cop. I hate those bastards.

I've read your website and I think what you went through sucks.

You're mad at the wrong people.

I'm sorry to be the asshat who gets to tell you, but your beat-down and mistreatment wouldn't have gone any better if there were fewer cops or different cops or less-well paid cops responding on your call.

Posted by six shooter | January 7, 2008 3:57 PM
25

@23

I guess when your argument doesn't hold up to common sense you resort to the personal attack.

I'm used to it from the police and pro-cop abuse people like you. Carry on.

Posted by Packratt | January 7, 2008 4:01 PM
26

@24

In other words, you think any cop anywhere would have illegally prevented emergency personnel and medical professionals from treating my injuries just to make me suffer and illegally interrogated me under physical and mental duress like they did?

I guess, in some ways, I still have more faith in the justice system than others.

But, honestly, thank you for framing it as nicely as you did, I appreciate that.

Posted by Packratt | January 7, 2008 4:04 PM
27

Interesting that the underfunded SPD can afford a paid spokesperson who is reading/responding to the SLOG
For unfiltered reality check of what the SPD officers really think:
www.seattlepoliceguild.org & checkout the Gaurdian!
lighthearted then and now cartoons w/ December 07 issue highlighting how annoying Miranda rights are!


Posted by wseahomo | January 7, 2008 4:52 PM
28

Packratt, nothing I have said is pro-cop.

Can you please tell me whether or not you know for a fact if the cops per capita is greater or smaller than average for a city like Seattle?

Can you please explain how it helps anybody to continue to have a police force that is too small?

Are you offering any solution besides punishing the police? How does hurting them back protect anybody from more crime?

Posted by elenchos | January 7, 2008 5:43 PM
29

@28

First, let's get one thing straight, I don't hate the police, I'm scared to death of them. I'm sure you don't understand what it's like to be a law abiding parent who is afraid to take his kids anywhere because of what police did to him, for the fear that they'll do it again or to his kids, but that's life for me.

Second, I'm all for rewarding cops... for doing a good job. The SPD needs to show progress in fixing their misconduct problems and their glaring lack of accountability BEFORE I would support hiring more officers or giving them better pay. It's just plain idiotic to insist that we reward bad officers for doing bad things by giving them pay raises without demanding something in return for that reward or making the department, and possibly the problem, much bigger.

Third, as you so proudly said, I do a crummy job at reporting on police brutality issues, so I'm obviously not punishing anyone with my efforts. In fact all I seem to do is get everyone pissed at me.

But, again, my only hope of walking down the street with my kids without fear is to do whatever I can to hold the police accountable for their misconduct.

Yeah, I probably do a piss poor job of it... but what do you expect from someone who has brain damage and who litterally shakes with dread every time he thinks or writes about what the SPD did to him.

The way I see it, with people like you around who support the SPD no matter who they hurt, I have to write about it or else there is no hope of them stopping this horrid misconduct problem.

Posted by Packratt | January 7, 2008 6:24 PM
30

I don't know why you keep saying I support the SPD. This is pointless.

Posted by elenchos | January 7, 2008 7:13 PM

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