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Wednesday, January 9, 2008

Savage Love Letter of the Day

posted by on January 9 at 16:35 PM

I have been dating my girlfriend for six months and we are very passionate with each other, making love at least twice a day and very much in love. My girlfriend’s best friend is a gay male whom she dated in high school before he came out of the closet. My girlfriend and I were talking about taking a vacation this year and she told me that she can’t go on a vacation with me because she is going to Italy for 2 weeks with him. Is this screwed up or am I freaking out about nothing? I mean she is going away for 2 weeks with her ex-boyfriend who now just happens to be gay?!?

JJ

At six months, JJ, you don’t have the seniority to make demands on your girlfriend where travel companions are concerned. And he’s GAY, you idiot. They dated in HIGH SCHOOL. He is, for all intents and purposes, her GIRLFRIEND now—he probably always was. As he’s just a friend, JJ, why shouldn’t she travel with him? What are you afraid of? That he’s going to give her a pedicure over there?

If you can’t be chill about this you’re going to sabotage this relationship. She either made these plans before you met or before you became serious. At a year and six months—maybe—you would have a right to be aggrieved if she was running off for two weeks with a friend, preventing you two from getting away together. But at this point you’ve got nothing to bitch about. You can say, “Man, I wish i was going with you—I can’t wait until we can travel together and fuck our way across Europe.” And, if you must, you can add, “I know it’s COMPLETELY IRRATIONAL, but i’m a little jealous and threatened. Tell me again how completely and thoroughly and screamingly gay your ex is, please.” Say it with a smile so she’ll laugh, then you fake a laugh, and then take them BOTH out to dinner, give them a travel guide, and tell them to have fun over there.

Who knows? if you play your cards right, Jay, you might get invited along. if you act like a jealous, irrational douchebag, you’ll definitely get your ass dumped.

RSS icon Comments

1
And he’s GAY, you idiot.

You know, Dan, not everyone is as thoroughly gay as you are. I just mean to say, I've known plenty of guys who identify primarily as gay, who will, for one reason or another, occasionally sleep with a woman. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense -- why put up with all the shit that comes with being gay if you can muster any actual interest in chicks? But it does happen. It might even just be a conquest thing, or fucking someone's boyfriend by proxy.

Posted by Judah | January 9, 2008 4:47 PM
2

Maybe SHE has a quest to get laid by her gay friend again and the boy doesn't know about it. I'm sure if this is her plan, it'll backfire on her. Come on. It's Italy. he's a gay guy in Italy. if he's really cute, he'll be flirting with tons of hot Italian guys who'll want to fuck him. If she's lucky, maybe she'll use her hot gay friend to score one, two or a few hot bi italian guys for some 3somes.

Posted by apres_moi | January 9, 2008 4:52 PM
3

How old are these people? 19? Big deal. 32? Then six months seems longer...

Posted by la | January 9, 2008 4:53 PM
4

But on another note, he shouldn't worry. Just consider it like a trip with the girls, except one's just a gay boy. Basically Will and Grace on vacation in Italy.

Posted by apres_moi | January 9, 2008 4:55 PM
5

Judah @1, the not-so-gay gay ex is one of countless possible what-ifs.  The key point here is:

She either made these plans before you met or before you became serious.

So 6-month-boyfriend's options are pretty much chill the fuck out or get dumped, regardless of how exclusively gay the ex is.

Posted by lostboy | January 9, 2008 4:57 PM
6

And by the way, we want a full report on your exploits in Pornoland. God, it's boring on Slog when you're not around.

Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty | January 9, 2008 5:01 PM
7

He's probably just insecure because the gay best friend is better looking than he is.

Posted by Gitai | January 9, 2008 5:02 PM
8

Personally, I think that paranoia and distrust is the way to go on this one.

Posted by NapoleonXIV | January 9, 2008 5:02 PM
9

hmmm, I wonder how loyal she'll be to him even if she's not going to fool around with her friend. Come on it's Italy they're going to. She'll be getting hit on by some hot str8 Italian men anywhere they go.

Honestly, I'm kind of jealous of them going to Italy. I wanna go too :-p

Posted by apres_moi | January 9, 2008 5:07 PM
10

@ 9,


You won't be jealous if you see the exchange rate on their VISA bills...

And don't women just love it when foreign men hit on them and ask for sex--ha! The gay friend could get some action though.

Posted by Original Andrew | January 9, 2008 5:16 PM
11

Action from the Italian stallions, that is...

Posted by Original Andrew | January 9, 2008 5:18 PM
12

I don't know, you'd think after six months together she might have at some point mentioned an impending trip to italy. I think she's playing her cards too close to her chest.

Be suspicious.

Posted by Paulus | January 9, 2008 5:21 PM
13

there is nothing worst than the jealous str8 boyfriend of one of your girlfriends. get over it.

Posted by whatev | January 9, 2008 5:27 PM
14

Believe me her gay boyfriend isn't going to have time to be tryin' to get into her pants (not that I believe in a billion years he would) with all those hot as fuck italian guys runnin around. I feel sorry for her as I suspect she'll be spending alot of time alone while he's out banging any little hot thing that looks his way. She should take the real boyfriend along too, imo. Italy is so freaking romantic.

Posted by Jersey | January 9, 2008 5:33 PM
15

good advice. dude is insecure.

Posted by Jamey | January 9, 2008 5:35 PM
16

I agree with @14. Now if this was a gay boy writing about his gay friend going along with some friends, it'd be a completely different story and response from us.

Posted by apres_moi | January 9, 2008 5:40 PM
17

Jay, tell your girlfriend to dump you.

Posted by midwaypete | January 9, 2008 6:14 PM
18

I'm just as thoroughly gay as Dan, if not thorougher. And I do not agree with you.

People, people, let me, the voice of reason, educate you:

It doesn't matter if he sleeps with her or not. The boyfriend will never know, and it doesn't count anyway. Who won't benefit from this? JJ. Who fuckin' cares about JJ?

Posted by Mr. Poe | January 9, 2008 6:45 PM
19

2 weeks is a long time- and they're at the 6 month mark now which means that her saying that she can't take a vacation with him this year means they can't take a vacation until they're at the 1 year, 6 month mark. I'd be pissed too, and would have a couple question marks going through my head- I don't blame the guy for being po'd. A long weekend, perhaps a week with the gay ex, fine- but 2 weeks, AND no proper vacation with the BF for the whole year-- I'm not with you on this one Dan-

Posted by freshnycman | January 9, 2008 6:45 PM
20

Oops, +@1.

Posted by Mr. Poe | January 9, 2008 6:45 PM
21

God - this sounds like some bad recycled plot from a Bertolucci film, doesn't it? In reality, GBF is probably going to end up having one of those vacations where you babysit your ex-GF while she pines away for her current BF for a full two weeks, all the while wondering why none of the Italian men in Rome look at you (oops, I just gave away my last vacation)...

Posted by yerbamatty | January 9, 2008 6:59 PM
22

If gf isn't actually excited about going on vacation with bf, she's just not that into him. Huge red flag for bf.

JJ has no reason to feel like a jerk. And going out 6 months @ 2x a day is a plenty enough reason for him to be surprised at this big red flag.

He can quit if he wants, or not.
He should expect that while on vacation she will sleep with someone over there. It's romantic. If I met some American girl on vacation in Italy with a gay friend who says she has a bf back in the USA, I'd think: (a) she's sort of a user, this is like asking to be hit on, he's not a real bf if he isn't here in the gondola drinking wine with us, and (b) hey, I could hit on her because obviously she's just not that into him.

But I wouldn't get serious.

Posted by SJNTITY | January 9, 2008 7:28 PM
23

Maybe they're going to Perugia to check out the college scene. Leaving her real boyfriend behind sounds like the right thing to do - he won't wind up in jail no matter what his girlfriend and her gay boyfriend do. eh?

Posted by chas Redmond | January 9, 2008 7:53 PM
24

Why doesn't he just go on a vacation with one of his girlfriends? You know, a platonic one?

Posted by mla | January 9, 2008 8:10 PM
25

Man people are fucked up. Paranoid or not ... she is going to do what she is going to do. It's Italy and according to many women "it doesn't count". Basically, as long as the guy plays it cool and believes that she is playing loyal, then everyone lives happily ever after ... until the next young love drama flares up ...

sheesh. Why is it that women do have every intention of loving, behaving, and being faithful ... then they are wisked to an intense situation and they fuck around.

I think its rather surprisingy that she didn't invite the boyfriend along. EVERY time I have been with a girl who was planning a trip to Europe wanted me to come along. Sometimes with a matter of weeks dating a girl. I couldn't afford groceries, housing or rather tuitiion when I was in college. Barely afford what I do have in grad school, so flying to Europe is a romantic fantasy that is just going to have to wait ... hopefully not much longer.

Still ... I have ALWAYS been asked and encouraged to go to Europe ... and I don't necessarily think she is after exclussively the gay man's pants ...

Posted by OR Matt | January 9, 2008 8:24 PM
26

Not to say Dan's advice isn't the best ... it's really the only option the guy has.
but for real, your a sex advice columnist, do you have faith in ANYONE aside from your husband anymore?

Posted by OR Matt | January 9, 2008 8:31 PM
27

Has anyone considered the idea that the issue may not be that she might sleep with the gay friend but that something I know from personal experience: some gay men can be the strongest instigators of fucking around. What I mean is she may not fuck the gay friend, but the two of them can go out "looking" together. They'll say it's innocent but on vacation shit happens...

And I agree with #12, in 6 months a two-week trip to Italy never came up? Sounds like she just never said anything. Besides, 6 months is not the same as 6 years it's true, but it's also not like they just met - they were talking about travelling together - 6 months does warrant a little more openness to negotiations. I think he should be extended an invitation automatically.

Posted by Beware the encouraging friend | January 9, 2008 9:29 PM
28

As a young woman, I feel rather obligated to speak up for my gender (or at least those of us who are faithful). First of all, @22, you state that you'd think an American girl is a "user" if she travels with a gay friend rather than a boyfriend because she's "asking to get hit on". First, having a boyfriend certainly doesn't mean that one has to travel only with him, and second, there's nothing wrong with getting hit on and even enjoying it as long as you don't cheat. And no, cheating isn't a given for all women, even if it's a romantic setting. Finally, you sound like the type of guy who would hit on a woman in Italy even if her husband was along for the trip. You could still say that she just didn't seem that into him.
And to OR Matt, yes, we're all impressed that you've been invited to Europe many a time, but I hardly think all men should expect an invitation at the six-month mark- some of them aren't as irresistible as I'm sure you are.

Posted by poodlicious | January 10, 2008 12:08 AM
29

Wow, the hate for women is THICK in this comment thread. In my experience, it's entirely possible that she HAS mentioned this vacation before, but JJ either thought it was some vague idea they had rather than concrete plans, or otherwise simply never quite made the connection to anything real. Furthermore, just because she wants to go to Italy does not mean she wants to cheat, nor do all women cheat every time they're placed in an intense situation . . . any more than all men do.
Dan's right, this JJ needs to chill the fuck out.

Posted by Rebecca | January 10, 2008 1:01 AM
30

Wow, the [need to find] hate for women is THICK in this comment thread.


Yes, yes it is.

Posted by torrentprime | January 10, 2008 4:10 AM
31

I agree with Dan.

Posted by Kristin Bell | January 10, 2008 5:27 AM
32

JJ, why so serious? Life's too short for people who aren't totally nuts about you. Trust me, if you make the effort you can completely surround yourself with people who actually care what you think of them.

On the other hand, you might want to consider what a great thing such an emotionally mature woman like your is. You can totally bug out to Maui with one of your exes now. Just make sure it's "platonic" wink-wink, nudge-nudge. She'll totally understand.

Posted by Green Means Go! | January 10, 2008 6:25 AM
33

@32: It'd have to be a lesbian friend.

Posted by Toby | January 10, 2008 7:43 AM
34

There's a lot of assuming going on here, so I'd like to join in and do some assuming too. Savage (a Kinsey 4/5 at best) gives advice based on incomplete information from the str8 bf. When the gf and her now "gay" best friend were dating in high school, were they fucking and/or were they in love? If they were, then it is not unreasonable to assume they won't hook up again or that they're holding onto feelings for each other still under the surface. After all, they're going to a place that is considered one of the romantic capitals of the world. We don't know how long it has been since high school or how serious their "dating" was.
Although the str8 bf says that he and the gf are very much in love, does the gf feel the same way? And if she does, is this how she shows it, by going off to Italy with an ex-boyfriend who says he is now "gay".
Frankly, these "Will and Grace" relationships are disgusting, often incapable of understanding healthy boundaries while simultaneously clinging to latent hetero fantasy and often showing little or no respect for others in their lives who would matter most in the long run.
Speaking as a Kinsey 6, I wouldn't shed a tear if the plane the gf and her now "gay" best friend/ex-boyfriend goes missing over the Atlantic ocean.
And for those that might be assuming--No, I'm not bitter because of a past experience related to some real life "Will and Grace" fiasco. I've had the good fortune of being with the same man for 23 years and counting. I just felt compelled to speak up when pathetic non-Kinsey 6s try to convince themselves and others that they're really a Kinsey 6. And yes, it would be nice if we lived in a country and a world when none of this would matter anyway.

Posted by Mark in Colorado | January 10, 2008 8:09 AM
35

If you don't trust the one you are most intimate with, it's time to find someone else that will take your low self esteem pansy ass "oh god poor me" bullshit. Jealousy is an ugly mistress.

Posted by muggims | January 10, 2008 8:36 AM
36

@28 ... I have to defend that ...
I wasn't intending to boast at all, it's just that Europe is supposedly a nice place to share with someone you at least half assedly care about. I'm also coming to the conclussion ... that maybe there are just some things people DON'T really want to know about their spouce/significant other. Like their vacation infidelities ... or even that people DO in fact enjoy flirting or teasing when their significant other is out of sight or out of mind. How far do these things go? Hell, who knows, we are all human ... and we all might find ourselves in once in a lifetime situations taking the bated hook. Funny though ... if I were to totally OVER generalize though, I seem to think men LOOK for these situations while women tend to FIND themselves in them. Which is why many women can offended of being accused of cheaters ... because I rarely ever think they ever had any intention of it and why men fail so abysmally at controlling their guilt when they do.

All that said ... you know it doesn't fucking matter if she is cheating on him in Italy with the gay buddy or any other dreamboat Itallian conquest abroad. What does matter though is that JJ (and perhaps all of us) need to chill the fuck out and let life happen as opposed to try and predict what IS going to happen.

Posted by OR Matt | January 10, 2008 9:14 AM
37

JJ needs to figure out how he will survive those two weeks. I suggest that he get a bicycle and ride the hell out of it. Sure he will think about the GF while riding, but he can just apply that frustration to the pedals. At night he will pass out from exhaustion rather than staring at the lonely ceiling. But then bicycles are my solution to everything.

Posted by Cyclist | January 10, 2008 9:24 AM
38

It doesn't matter what his girlfriend does or doesn't do in Italy. JJ's mind is made up. He needs to break it off with her before she goes to Italy, and then find someone else to date that he feels like he can trust. It sucks, but there it is.

Posted by Greg | January 10, 2008 9:28 AM
39

Why did he have to have my initials? That's what I wanna know.

Posted by Jason Josephes | January 10, 2008 9:48 AM
40

They're not in love, they're fucking twice a day.

By the time she gets back, he will have a new source of penis pleasure.

Posted by sceptic | January 10, 2008 10:03 AM
41

@28-- Putting aside the personal attack (whoa, WTF??), let me try again.

1. If married, with ring, if with bf, duh, she's not available.
2. If she so indicates at any point, she's not available.
3. If states has bf, but she's in vacation/fun mode in Italy and he's not there, that "bf" back home is not a serious thing. She's apparently available. Unless she indicates otherwise, see no. 2.

I didn't say or suggest nor do I think think women travelling alone cheat, or that they "can't go on vacation without their bf." Chill out, stop being afraid when you don't need to be, don't put words in mouth, please.

BTW back to JJ: "Hi honey, I love you, but not enough to go on vacation with you. I'm going with another person. That's my idea of fun. It does not include you. See ya later."

JJ needs to realize: she's just not that into him.

Capiche?

Ciao bella--

Posted by SJNTITY | January 10, 2008 10:12 AM
42

@22... Oh my god did you just reference that retarded Greg Behrendt book? That made me cringe.

I am in agreement with those who think JJ should perhaps be worried, but not about the gay friend. God knows (unknown to my then bf) I couldn't turn down all the hot European ass I found when I was over there... Those boys are just completely irresistable :)

Posted by Queen of Sleaze | January 10, 2008 10:51 AM
43

Ladies ... what is it with the foreign men? I mean foreign men around here? Often they come across as creepy, grabby, smelly self rightious weirdos. Sometimes I get the impression that they come across as self serving, women exist to serve me types ... yet abroad, they are so irrestiable? Locally, it's even more bizzare! Totally 50/50 sometimes women see them as the total womenizers they are ... and sometimes they are irrestiable (it's either one or the other)

I'm not so much as envious. I'm not about to give up my showers or respect for women as individuals (maybe not as a much on a whole, but individually I respect them.) just for an easy lay. Is it just the mystique? The exotic? If I had to reverse it ... I would say that foreign women at least try to smell nice.

Posted by OR Matt | January 10, 2008 11:03 AM
44

Oh jesus not OR matt again.
And @ 34 from me and my gay best friend, a sincere fuck you.

Posted by chi type | January 10, 2008 12:35 PM
45

he needs to grab his best lesbian girlfriend(if ya dont have one, get one) and go to Bali while they are in Italy.
Seriously though, he's gay, he's her "girlfriend" just like Dan said. Dan you are dead on with this one.

Posted by christianflikr | January 10, 2008 1:35 PM
46

@44
Bless your heart, chi type, that needed to be done.

Posted by poodlicious | January 10, 2008 10:26 PM

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