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Sunday, January 27, 2008

Re: The South Carolina Victory Speech

posted by on January 27 at 13:46 PM

I watched it live at the gym. It was a great speech. But I was only able to really appreciate it when I watched the tape. You see, when I watch Obama speak live before a crowd… I’m thoroughly riveted. Can’t take my eyes off him. But for the wrong fucking reason: I find it hard to look away because I’m stressing out the whole time about the guy getting shot. The tension is terrible. I hope he’s got a great bunch of Secret Service agents around him at all times.

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Ugh....I have the same morose thoughts! I watch Obama speak and am inspired and completely tense.

Posted by SP | January 27, 2008 1:56 PM

So, I'm not the only one with that thought going through my head.

Posted by Dot | January 27, 2008 1:59 PM

I think everyone has that moment every once in awhile. I've luckily gotten that quiet fear down to a spontaneous flash once every other speech. Let me tell you, he's got great Secret Service guys around him. I've met a few of them. Might I say they're very attentive and friendly as well. The SS does a great job, which is the reason why despite almost being taken out by a pretzel and a Segway George Dubya is somehow still alive.

Posted by Graham | January 27, 2008 2:01 PM

Sad as it is to say, I think most people have had thought at some point. Do they give them secret service guards at this point? For some reason, I thought it wasn't until a candidate got the nomination.

Posted by Gidge | January 27, 2008 2:02 PM

He left Gay Americans out of that list of people there. Shucks, Yes Massa Obama I be back in da cabin jus axin for some equality. I jus shut up nah massa.

Posted by Sargon Bighorn | January 27, 2008 2:04 PM

Hey left a lot of groups off for brevity. His stump speech typically mentions gays & straights.

Posted by bellevue & belmont | January 27, 2008 2:09 PM

Shut up, Sargon. Sorry he forgot to mention the broad coalition of the gay vote and the straight vote in South Carolina. You'd have thought his more progressive stance than the other three candidates and the willingness to chastise traditionally homophobic communities in person (like last week at Ebenezer) would quell the desire to bitterly make racist jokes. But, I suppose not.

Gidge, he's had secret service protection since the summer. Actually, I think Hillary has had SS for awhile too. Doesn't anyone read the other posts?

Posted by Graham | January 27, 2008 2:10 PM

If he's elected, I'll pay 3:2 he's killed within six months of inauguration.

Posted by A. | January 27, 2008 2:10 PM

this is a particularly brutal meme that's been going around - with all the attention being paid to the negative space surrounding the candidates' and campaigns' statements, and all of the "whispering campaigns", etc., it's difficult not think that the comparisons of obama to kennedy are designed to engender this kind of thought.

Posted by john | January 27, 2008 2:10 PM

He has studied a lot of MLK's technique. The way he phrases things, his intonation and timing all remind me of the "I Have a Dream" speech. I'm actually surprised none of the pundits called that out during the "after game show" last night.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 2:12 PM

Shut up Graham. I'm Not sorry. THE VERY FIRST WORDS OUT OF HIS MOUTH SPOKE TO THE STR8 COMMUNITY. Listen to it again. He thanked his WIFE. That's the Hetero crowd baby.

I did not make a Racist joke. DO NOT suggest otherwise.

Posted by Sargon Bighorn | January 27, 2008 2:13 PM

"I'll pay 3:2 he's killed within six months of inauguration."

Only if it is by the R__ P____ supporters. Of course, since R__ P___ is going to win (after all, internet polls never lie), Obama's assassination will not be a problem.

... course once Obama is elected (which I really hope happens), the SS goons will do a Google search and this very thread will come up. We are now screwed. Game over.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 2:15 PM

I feel like that, too. I saw him speak at BCC in 2006 and I felt fine, but once he announced his candidacy, I've just been on edge the whole time he's in public. Maybe if he gets the Dem nom and picks someone even more unpalatable to the nutjobs as VP, we'll be assured of him actually staying alive through his 4 years.

Posted by Jessica | January 27, 2008 2:16 PM

@4: Obama has been under Secret Service protection since May 2007, presumably because specific threats made that necessary. That was the earliest any presidential candidate (save HRC, who already had the Secret Service detail accorded former first ladies) has ever been assigned Secret Service protection. Kerry and Edwards got it in Feb 2004.

Posted by annie | January 27, 2008 2:18 PM

I think it's going to be a sharpshooter.

From that blimp....

Whatever happened to the investigation of the Anthrax mailer, anyway?

I'm thinking they must have discovered he was a Republican, and quietly dropped all further inquiry.

Posted by NapoleonXIV | January 27, 2008 2:18 PM

I just watched the speech. It's never crossed my mind. I feel, well, HOPE!

Posted by Deacon Seattle | January 27, 2008 2:19 PM


Senator, Senior Dean of the Senate, Ted Kennedy will endorse Obama in the morning, flanked by his niece, Caroline.

BIG boost, and very anti Clinton.

To say I am impressed is an understatement. Oprah and Kennedys, WOW.

Barrack is playing to win and this may start a list of very nationally prominent Dems, perfect moment.


Posted by Jack | January 27, 2008 2:19 PM

The $64,000 question: Who is Gore gonna endorse, and when will he do it?

Posted by NapoleonXIV | January 27, 2008 2:22 PM

"From that blimp...."
Somewhere I read that the company that funds the blimp isn't structured as a non-profit, but some kind of "neutral campaign advertisement" company. Part of the "deal" of being structured that way is they have to advertise any candiate... not just R__ P____

That said... Stupid question. Have all presidents who've been assassinated been a democrat?

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 2:22 PM

Sargon, that "massa" nonsense would qualify as racist by almost anyone's account, to varying degrees of course.

If you're going to get offended and view him thanking his wife as some "hetero pandering" and NOT view comments as the least bit racist, it's a moot point. I don't feel like having an argument on the slog. Especially not with someone as wild-eyed and riled up as you. Thank your lucky stars you are in the minority of the LGBT community, and most others both gay and straight are willing to actually make legitimate progress on your behalf instead of wallow in your brand of pointless shrillness.

Posted by Graham | January 27, 2008 2:23 PM
("Eddie Murphy's Delirious" transcript)
I've seen Jesse in the gym, working
the fuck out, too, for getting into shape.

You know he got a chance he can win.
White dudes like to do shit like that... for the wrong dude as a goof.

They get drunk and shit and go like:
"Let's vote for Jesse Jackson !"

"I just voted for Jesse Jackson !"

And next day would be
like this: "He fuckin' won?"

Jesse knows that shit can happen. He gets in shape.
I've seen him running round the track and shit.

I said: "Why the fuck you getting in shape like this?"
He says: "cos I'm gonna be the first black president.
"I have to give speeches like this: My fellow americans !
As your president I feel...

And dude be going: "He won't stand still !"

Posted by delirious | January 27, 2008 2:23 PM

Yes, anyone who thinks about the election has had that thought.

My fear is twofold.
A) He gets offed before the election, which leaves us basically screwed.
B) He doesn't buy insurance ala GW and have someone more extreme as his VP.

I mean who's going to get rid of GW only to get Cheney as a replacement? Same goes for Obama, he needs a good strong VP, more to the left and willing to lead, with a vengeance.

Posted by Daniel | January 27, 2008 2:23 PM

At the risk of "going there", would you guys not have these feelings had Obama not been black?

Posted by mackro mackro | January 27, 2008 2:27 PM

"That's the Hetero crowd baby."
That is one hell of a troll you got there boy.

You know what I hate? All the candidates only thank humans. Why is everybody so hateful of animals? What do they have against chickens, cows and sheep? Just once, I'd like to hear a candidate thank their flock of geese in the backyard for putting up with them while running! Geese are our friends too!

Dont even get me started up about us never giving credit to the rulers of Omacron Persi 8.

(cookies for whoever gets that reference)

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 2:27 PM
That said... Stupid question. Have all presidents who've been assassinated been a democrat?

McKinley was a Republican. Ford and Reagan were both shot at; they just got lucky.

Posted by tsm | January 27, 2008 2:28 PM

@20: Graham, come over here and sit on my lap. That was a GREAT response.

And Sargon, honey -- who was Obama supposed to thank? His downlow boyfriend in Aiken? Please...don't look for homophobic attacks where they don't exist.

Posted by Jubilation T. Cornball | January 27, 2008 2:28 PM

"He doesn't buy insurance ala GW and have someone more extreme as his VP."


Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 2:29 PM

@#11 Sargon: As a straight guy in a happy marriage I have to ask: Would you rather he thank the gay community for existing before he thanked his wife for being the "rock of [his] life"?

We want to see you have that kind of awesome relationship, with the rights that come with it, too, and hopefully when you can thank your husband or wife, it will be seen as being as sweet as when Mr. Obama did it for his wife.

Posted by Steve | January 27, 2008 2:29 PM

Lincoln was a Republican.

Posted by A. | January 27, 2008 2:32 PM

Getting back to assassination anxiety, it's too easy to go there, isn't it? Just like conspiracy theory?

Because we can imagine an endless permutation of scenarios that any high profile presidential candidate or actual president would be assassinated.

So, what is it about Obama that *really* brings out this anxiety?

(Asking rhetorically, because I somewhat understand it, too, but can't bring myself to describe it.)

Posted by mackro mackro | January 27, 2008 2:33 PM

Don't forget that Bill Clinton was the target of quite a few assassination attempts as well (none of which were close.) Have any recent presidents not?

Also, "Republican" and "Democrat" meant something completely different 3-4 decades ago, much more different back during the Civil War days.

Posted by mackro mackro | January 27, 2008 2:35 PM

"So, what is it about Obama that *really* brings out this anxiety?"

Guy sounds like Martin Luther King...

Would he get assassinated? Naw... But just in case, I'll vote republican and I encourage all of you to do so as well. Especially Huckabee, who thinks expanding some north-south highway on the east coast by two lanes will save our economy and help curtail our oil dependence. Did anybody not laugh out loud when he said that? Most absurd thing I've heard in these debates. More roads. That is the solution to our problems folks. Build more roads.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 2:36 PM

So, why isn't McCain seen as a potential assassination target as well? I mean, he's the guy that's joking about "bomb bomb bomb-bomb Iran". You figure someone in the world would want to nip such a character in the bud, right?

Posted by mackro mackro | January 27, 2008 2:37 PM

There's something deeper than "Sounds like Martin Luther King" though, isn't there. So, what is that?

Posted by mackro mackro | January 27, 2008 2:41 PM

"So, what is that?"

I don't think the guy is a target, but if I did, the only reason I could think of is the guy is a very educated black dude who speaks like MLK. No offense, I think you can't go any deeper than that without a tin foil hat.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 2:44 PM

Dammit mackro, I'd forgotten all about the Beach-Boy-McCain song. Thanks for ruining my lunch.

Posted by Karlheinz Arschbomber | January 27, 2008 2:44 PM

I mean, if you guys are afraid to say "The only type of people willing to conspire enough to murder a politician in the 2000s is the fundamentalist, survivalist, biggotted right-wing guerrilla type, otherwise other types of people wouldn't bother", then why not just say it?

Posted by mackro mackro | January 27, 2008 2:45 PM

Why is the pope a target? Why does he drive around in his pope-mobile?

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 2:47 PM

Why isn't Oprah a target? Why isn't Chris Crocker a target? etc.

Posted by mackro mackro | January 27, 2008 2:51 PM

Dan has overcome his fear of jinxy posts.

Posted by Street Smart | January 27, 2008 2:55 PM

"Why isn't Oprah a target?".
Cause than Dr. Phil would take the time slot. Think about it for a second.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 2:55 PM

I don't think Obama sounds anything like MLK, except for the whole inspirational vision thing. MLK was from the South and Obama is from the Midwest. Tres different in my book.

Let's please not have some self-fulfilling prophecy about Obama as a target of violence. I think he's safe.

Plus, I think Hillary Clinton would get it before Obama anyway.

Posted by me | January 27, 2008 3:00 PM

"I don't think Obama sounds anything like MLK"

Not accent, but how he phrases things, how he intones things and where he pauses for drama.

"Plus, I think Hillary Clinton would get it before Obama anyway."

Silly me, you can't hit a girl.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 3:02 PM

Oprah became a target of the beef industry when she said she didn't want to eat beef anymore.

I'm have actually had the same thoughts as well about Obama.

Posted by Mr. Designer | January 27, 2008 3:03 PM

#11, please realize that your comments (@#5) are highly offensive! Now, to address your concern that Obama didn't thank gays. My family says that he and his wife were very direct in discussing gays during numerous meetings and rallies at black churches in SC. I can't think of a better way to address the homophobic issue in the black community. A black man who "preaches" to one of his communities (he is half white) about their hatred for gays. So, even if he doesn't get the nomination, he is helping to stop the GOP from using gays as a wedge issue. ...BTW, I'm an out and proud African American.

Posted by Tony | January 27, 2008 3:05 PM

It's the Illuminati, folks, and Obama's toast.

Posted by The Ghost in the Darkness | January 27, 2008 3:07 PM

Obama mentioned the gay community in front of a largely African-American audience at MLK's old church on MLK day just a few weeks ago.

Posted by la | January 27, 2008 3:10 PM

"Oprah became a target of the beef industry when she said she didn't want to eat beef anymore."

Shit. You dont mess with the beef lobby. Those guys are more hardcore than the tobacco lobby. They go all the way to the top. You double cross one of them and dont be surprised if your wife wakes up next to your dead body... only with a cow head in place of your own.

Back on semi-topic. Not to diss the gay community, but at this point in his campaign it would be political suicide to start preaching his support of gays. When you are running for office and trying to suck away voters from (R)'s and other (D)'s, sometimes you cannot say everything you want. Sucks but it's true.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 3:11 PM

i have the same thoughts every time too. having these thoughts doesn't amount to racism of course, but rather an awareness of obama's mixed heritage and the possibilities that active hate groups will target him because of it. in reality, he probably is more at risk that any president in recent history has been.

Posted by Judith | January 27, 2008 3:14 PM

#24 You mean they don't even thank their PETS!?
I think the reference is to a Futurama episode?

Posted by Spot | January 27, 2008 3:22 PM

Truthfully, the biggest instrument to world peace will be the discovery of bacteria on Mars. The day we know for a fact that we are not alone in this universe is the day we stop bickering about stupid crap like "OMG, they didn't thank their Alaskan Malamute".

"I think the reference is to a Futurama episode?"
Your internet cookie is on its way.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 3:24 PM

So, wait, this fear just comes from him being black? Seriously? We've got a 100% success rate on black presidents going assassination-free. I expect that trend to continue.

Posted by Jason Josephes | January 27, 2008 3:35 PM

Anytime a person generates a high level of excitement and hope, he/she also attracts elements that want to destroy all that. Fringe groups thrive on that sort of publicity. Recent endorsements of Obama by Kennedy family members will certainly fuel paranoia and spur fantasies of unbalanced individuals who seek the notoriety of Lee Harvey Oswald. Fortunately, I think the Secret Service has vastly improved their operations over the last forty-plus years. I just hope that all the candidates listen to their security detail and avoid huge risks.

Posted by Bub | January 27, 2008 3:50 PM

Don't worry, the women Secret Service agents that you don't see will shoot anyone who tries that.

But, then, I think any Republican candidate has the same basic chance, IMHO, or perhaps a higher chance of meeting an untimely end.

Posted by Will in Seattle | January 27, 2008 3:51 PM

"Your internet cookie is on its way."
Can you make it a doggie biscuit? woof!(thanks!)
Have Brian send it over. ;)

Posted by Spot | January 27, 2008 3:52 PM
in reality, he probably is more at risk that any president in recent history has been.

Ehhhh, I'm not sure we really know how at risk presidents in recent history have been. Clinton had a couple of assassination attempts, and pissed off the crazy right-wing survivalist types pretty well himself. And I'm sure Bush had plenty of credible threats too, although he's probably safer primarily due to his unwillingness to ever, ever appear amongst the hoi polloi.

I think the Obama fear just comes from how deeply ingrained the narrative of "brave idealist taken down by the Powers That Be" is in the liberal mindset. (Makes me think of the XTC song "Ballad of Peter Pumpkinhead".)

Posted by tsm | January 27, 2008 3:53 PM

s/Powers That Be/Crazy Wackos/ and you'd to better. To imply that "The Powers That Be" are taking down idealists only bumps up my shares in Alcoa.

Posted by crk on bellevue ave | January 27, 2008 4:04 PM

I think that if Bush was able to travel unscathed across the middle east, then the SS can protect Obama across the United States. Seems logical.

Posted by superyeadon | January 27, 2008 5:13 PM

The antecedent for Obama's style isn't MLK, and it certainly isn't JFK. It's Bobby Kennedy. And security's a LOT better than it was in 1968.

Posted by Fnarf | January 27, 2008 5:51 PM

Bush wasn't wading into markets,shaking hands with folks, or trying to have events with 5,000 people and a building staff of 50 at some mini stadium.

Logical = look at data = JFK RFK MLK plus 100 civil rights activists + thousands of African Americans since 1865 locally assassinated for "talking wrong," having a farm or business, etc.

In some areas.

He's OK on Michigan Ave. in Chicago, I think.

Logical + recombine data with new facts = would you say President Obama should tour the Middle East?

Of course. But. Still. Highly. Dangerous. (no walks through the local market, I'd say).

Also: Bush not a good data point; Al Q. has no motive to off Bush, as he's given them everything they wanted.

Posted by unPC | January 27, 2008 5:55 PM

@5,etc....When Obama was in Seattle, he mentioned Gay people ..... and even (OMG).... disabled people -- an acknowledgement that you might hear in the Lesbian community, but hardly ever from Gay men.
And by the way, Dan, your post is too fucking creepy. Better to keep that insidious shit to yourself!

Posted by CripKev | January 27, 2008 5:57 PM

He thanked his WIFE. That's the Hetero crowd baby.

Yeah, God forbid he acknowledge the woman who's dedicated her life to him, puts her own life on hold to help him campaign, and bore him children. What a fucking ass. How DARE he thank her.

If you don't think your "massa" comment was racist, you must really have a warped perception of reality.

I'll repeat what others have said -- he mentioned the gay community (in a "we shouldn't discriminate" kind of way) in his speech at Ebeneezer Baptist Church on the Sunday before MLK Day.

Posted by Jo | January 27, 2008 6:07 PM

#58 hits it right on the head. If the most unpopular president ever can make it unscathed thus far, Obama can, too.

Posted by Jason Josephes | January 27, 2008 7:53 PM

Jesus Sargon, people like you are why the left is regarded as a total fucking joke and in fact why the American left is a total fucking joke that keeps getting its ass handed to it by the American right. You would never see a wing-nut, say a snake-handling Baptist, on LGF having the same kind of shitty little hissy fit that you had if a Republican candidate, say Mike Huckabee, made a victory a speech and didn't thank the snake-handling Baptists. Nope, right wingers don't do that, only pissy little leftist bitches like you do that, because being a pissy little leftist bitch who constantly whines about his victimization is a lot easier than actually doing something.

Posted by wile_e_quixote | January 27, 2008 9:24 PM

If you have the fear for his safety, admire the man for his courage.

Otherwise, what--do we cower from the idea of any candidate threatening to the status quo and just go with milquetoast Old White Guys who Won't Get Shot?

Oh, wait, that didn't exactly work for Reagan, one of the most "popular" Presidents in modern history, now did it?

Posted by Andy Niable | January 27, 2008 9:24 PM
So, what is it about Obama that *really* brings out this anxiety?

I think it's stuff like this.

Posted by thepolynomial | January 27, 2008 9:25 PM

I had the same unsettling thoughts after he won Iowa, and so many people I talked with in the days afterwards expressed similar fears. Weird and telling and sad that someone who inspires and commands such attention automatically raises the doom-ometer.

Posted by Explorer | January 27, 2008 9:44 PM

I was rivetted hearing him on the radio.

Posted by rdm | January 27, 2008 10:37 PM

Amen to posts 20 and 64!

Posted by Deacon Seattle | January 27, 2008 10:48 PM

re Obama security: According to some reports Obama himself requested SS protection and it was in response to specific threats against him. According to other reports, however, it was Dick Durbin who requested it. After seeing the size of Obama's crowds he went to Harry Reid and told him they needed to get security.

I also heard an NPR reporter just before the NH primary say that Obama's security detail had been increased, Unfortunately I can't track the piece down. The reporter said that the SS refused to comment on why security had been heightened.

And, I totally agree w/Fnarf @59 that the modern politico Obama most resembles is RFK.

I started rereading Jules Witcover's "85 Days: The Last Campaign of Robert Kennedy" to try and recall some of this. RFK in '68 turned a campaign into magic. I sense that Obama could do the same.

An amazing difference between then and now: RFK entered the race on March 16, 1968 -- seven months before the election. Obama entered on Feb. 7, 2007...13 months before RFK did and 21 months before the election.

Posted by gnossos | January 27, 2008 11:12 PM
71 has a detailed look at Obama's security and it's VERY intensive.

Posted by Jocko | January 28, 2008 6:32 AM

@6 & others:

Can you link me to some speeches that acknowledge the gays? Emotionally I would LOVE to get on board with Obama, but I'm still a little freaked by the Donnie McLure thing. It would be great if I could find a reason to get over it...

Posted by singingcynic | January 28, 2008 6:41 AM

I am writing the Obama campaign to DEMAND that he thank the GLBT community first whenever he makes a speech. Anything else is heteropandering, and completely unacceptable.

Posted by Lesbian of color AND of size | January 28, 2008 6:46 AM

@58 & 63: I think that logic and comparison is skewed. Maybe I'm generalizing, but it seems to me that the type of people who assassinate presidents are the type that would support someone like Bush. I mean, think about it, no one ever wants to assassinate shitty political leaders - they don't really present a threat to the status quo. It's the ones that can generate change and potentially lessen the gap between the upper and lower classes that get taken out. Whether it's by a right wing nut all by themself or government program assassins (if you're into conspiracy theories), liberals don't assassinate people, therefore politicians like GWB are rarely targets.

Posted by Callie | January 28, 2008 9:07 AM

#74: Thanks so much for the youtube link.

I hadn't heard about the speech before but having just watched it, I am ridiculously PROUD that this person might be the next US President!

Posted by YO | January 28, 2008 9:45 AM

Obama won 85% of the black vote in South Carolina, and 15% of the white votes. The remaining white votes were split between Edwards and Clinton.

While the press has bought into Obama's lies and misrepresentations concerning the nature of his tainted South Carolina victory, the truth is impossible to avoid: Race ruled - black people will vote for a black person no matter what.

Once again, the color of his skin had EVERYTHING to do with his winning.

If elected, Obama might turn out to be a good president. Who knows? In fact, no one does because he is the least experienced "serious" candidate we have seen in either party for decades, and he has no track record whatsoever to examine. We can only examine his speeches where he promises us the Sun and the Moon, all to be delivered upon the wings of Change. What sort of change? We don't have any idea because we haven't been told.

My favorite Obama promise is to "end global warming" with "change" and "new ideas." Brilliant Barak, just brilliant.

The only things we do know about him are:
(1) His father was a Muslim.
(2) He goes to a black church that preaches anti-white hate speech.
(3) He voted "present" 400 times - not yes, not no. No decision was made.
(4) He is in favor of everyone getting a college degree regarding of mental aptitude. He wants the US taxpayer to pay for it.
(5) He thinks that black criminals should serve SHORTER sentences in jail.
(6) He will end global warming with change and new ideas.

Barack Obama represents a new low in American politics. He knows how to give a speach and say nothing.

Posted by Dennis Chase | January 29, 2008 8:39 AM

The guy with the Dr. Spock ears and the “stare off into space” look has been practicing vigorously to imitate his preacher, Jeremiah Wright.

Jeremiah Wright preaches how the white man has kept the black man down. Does he preach black responsibility? Oh, no, they're victimes who have been downtrodden by the white man, but everything will be great when they die and go to heaven.

Obama preaches that the people have been downtrodden by the government, but everything will be great when he is elected. How? Oh, he doesn’t really bother to explain that. It's too complicated for us to understand. We do know that there will be “change” and “new ideas”.

Glory, Hallelujah, Y'all: Can I get a witness?

Posted by Steve Scott | January 29, 2008 8:45 AM

The perfect running mate for Obama would be Barney Frank. No right-wing Neandertal with a rifle would
dare shoot Obama then. Insurance, and probably the smartest guy on capitol hill.

Posted by Craig Zeller | January 29, 2008 11:17 AM

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