I won't weigh in on clean coal, other than to say that Clinton is right when she says that coal is what we do and we gotta deal with it intelligently and pragmatically.

As for cap and trade emissions schemes, check out The Economist's analysis of recent changes to the EU's energy policy:
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10533965

Which explains a bit about why auctioning the credits is the better route, shy of a straight up carbon tax.

It features this tasty snippet:
"Yet a study of British industry published this week by Britain's Carbon Trust undermines the idea that a carbon price of €20 ($30) a tonne—high enough to make a range of clean-energy technologies worthwhile—would be a huge burden. It suggests that industries making up less than 1% of Britain's GDP (and 50% of its manufacturing emissions) would be “significantly” affected. Aluminium, cement and some steel production are the most vulnerable."

carbon tax! carbon tax! carbon tax! You want to manage something efficiently, set a transparent price on it!

You know, no matter who wins in November (from either party) we really are fucked in a way we can not even begin to fanthom.

I say we take the West Coast, succede from the Union and elect Gore to be the President. Let the other 47 states (well we will take HI with us) and let them just fuck themselves over.

Oh, yeah, that would so win votes as a bumper sticker.

Why do you MSM types keep pushing Clinton and Guiliani so much?

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=flirting_with_liquid_coal

Last week, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton showed that despite efforts to build support with progressives suspicious of their close ties to corporate America, when it comes to real decisions and real votes, big business will often come first. This was reaffirmed when the two senators voted for an amendment to the energy bill offered by Montana Democrat Jon Tester that would have provided $200 million in grants and $10 billion in taxpayer loans for projects to turn regular old solid, black coal into new, shiny liquid coal to power cars and trucks. The coal companies love the idea, because replacing even 10 percent of gasoline with liquid coal would spur a 43 percent increase in coal mining, according to environmental groups. And proponents have tried to put coal liquefaction in the politically appealing framework of "energy independence" -- helping reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

...

Clinton's reasons for supporting liquid coal are harder to divine. Like Obama, she's compiled a generally pro-environment record, but also like him, she's surrendered to polluter lobbyists on some key issues -- for example, supporting the logging company International Paper in burning highly toxic tires at a major facility in upstate New York. But there are no major coal mining interests in New York (outside of the New York-based hedge funds who own a large share of the power and mining industry). Nevertheless, she's consistently supported subsidies for coal, if not with the gusto that Obama has brought to the cause. She usually explains it by touting what she says is coal liquefaction's ability to reduce America's reliance on foreign oil (economists doubt this proposition; liquid coal is so expensive to produce that it's likely to only displace domestic sources of oil, which have significantly higher production costs than Saudi, Venezuelan or African oil). Still, she seems to feel divided on the issue; when the Senate voted on the Tester amendment, she stood on the Senate floor and waited until almost all the other senators had cast their votes before announcing her support.

They both suck on this issue, but only Obama has a concrete reason for sucking. What's Clinton's?

annie, thank you for being intellectually honest and showing both candidates' records on this issue. that shouldn't be too much to ask.

Hmmm.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/23/AR2007062301424.html
talks about Obama's coal motivations, was written two days before the prospect.org article that Annie referenced.

I feel it shows Obama trying to find a way to do both, use coal and use it wisely, and he later hedged his bets on CTL.

What, are you one of Jack Abramoff's lawyers now?

Wow. Each post from you is more of a stretch than the last. Annie obviously favors Obama, but still manages to show more honesty than you do.

That's the response to ECB's point about Boucher supporting OBama?

What's the new "noest" OBama slogan now --
"Obama and Clinton: We All Know What they Both Are, But Obama Is a Cheaper One"?

Draw your own conclusions, but I think it's pretty extreme to claim one would be dramatically different from the other in office, endorsement from one Virginia congressman or no.

this is the fundamental difference between having journalistic integrity and being a propagandist.

Its becoming more and more obvious that one of two things are driving ECB.

1. She won't vote for a black man.
2. She wants to vote for a woman.