the nyt is saying that the apartment is *not* owned by mary-kate. that, in itself, is a relief.
but seriously, this is really sad. my friends and i have exchanged similar texts/calls.
My other favorite part of cable news was when they were like, "Now, this is wild speculation not based in any facts, BUT Heath Ledger did subscribe to the supermodel lifestyle, AND people sometimes DO mix sleeping pills with alcohol. Wild speculation, but still."
"Well, he was constantly crystal-gazing. And he did train Matilda to pick the fanny packs of unsuspecting white tourists."
it made the loss of Heath a lot easier.
I thought it was hilarious when Irwin died. I still think it's hilarious.
There isn't anything funny about Ledger's death. It's kind of a punch in the stomach.
You really *shouldn't* have bothered typing up those text messages
A punch in the stomach for idiots, Mr. Poe.
TMZ now saying the cops are sure it wasn't a suicide, but "accidental death." Sucks shit either way.
@5 Don't be such a grump. We all grieve in our own way.
Meagan, are you really that vapid that you grieve over a celebrity death?
I don't consider Heath to be a "celebrity", Bellevue. He pretty much kept to himself and wasn't out to prove some empty point that he has no grounds proving. He wasn't the least bit a media whore. He was an actor. Plain & simple. Not a celebrity.
And yeah, I liked him a lot. He played in some dumb shit, but it wasn't terrible shit. Overall his filmography is respectful. And where it's not (although subjective), they're at least entertaining movies. I'll miss him.
@9 Yes. I have laid out my black suit for ironing and am currently preparing my veil for 30 days of mourning.
BTW, I don't think that "grieving" (which is not how I'd really classify my feelings at the moment) over a dead celebrity with a young baby daughter is the same as being vapid. I might actually call it "empathy for another human," but then again, I am a driveling cunt.
BFFs for life, Bellevue Ave!
@9, SERIOUSLY, SERIOUSLY, if you don't care, then don't read. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read SLOG on Heath. Stop insisting everyone who is reading and commenting is vapid. It's just annoying.
Bellevue, are you really such a jerk that you think people shouldn't matter to you just because they're famous? Are you one of those people who stops liking bands once they "sell out"?
...Plus, no one is claiming to have a personal emotional attachment to the guy, but when any artist dies and the enrichment he or she could have given the world is gone forever, it's a sad time.
There isn't anything funny about Ledger's death.
Yeah, the risk of stingray attacks in Manhattan apartments has been criminally under-reported. Ledger didn't have a chance.
Drug OD from eating Mary-Kate's food.
...we think that this might beat out Steve Irwin...
Between this and Renfro, is a trifecta in play? Who's next?
Shit, I didn't hear about Renfro.
EVERYONE STOP READING AND COMMENTING ON THINGS I DON'T WANT YOU TO READ AND COMMENT ON!!! STOP IT!! PAY ATTENTION TO MEEEEEEEEE!!! I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IMPORTANT STUFF, LIKE THE ECONOMY...WELL, I DO, AS SOON AS I'M DONE RANTING AND RAVING AND FOCUSING ATTENTION ON MEEEEEEE!!!
Was going to ream Bellevue, but others here have done it brilliantly enough.
I care about the economy, I'm going shopping later. So I have the right to read as much news about celebs as I want.
@ 17 -- thought that too. i think the third will be someone else unexpected. like jesse metcalf or nicole kidman. random like that.
Y'know, it's amazing how asshole-ism is prevalent on-line, considering the number of decisions that have to be made to "give voice" to it. You have to take the time to read something, then to formulate a response, then to type it (every letter typed is a conscious act) and then to submit it (i.e. moving your hand to the mouse, moving the mouse to the "submit" button, clicking).
Even after all of those decisions, all of those opportunities to say to one's self, "I don't have to be an asshole. I can stop typing right now," Mr. Bellevue Ave still managed to be an asshole. Triumph of the will.
What's stupider than grieving for a celebrity? How about wasting time by picking on those who are "grieving," especially in the name of not wasting time? Pretty stupid.
Becca, are you so devoid of a brain that death should only matter when it is a celeb? where are you people when normal people are murdered? where is the sadness then? the fact that all this "ohhh its so tragic" shit is paraded around when an actor offs himself instead of when some woman is gunned down in a federal way bus station or when a father of 3 is killed in iraq says a lot about where you place your priorities.
I want to comment on people's reaction to heath ledger dying. I don't care that he died, i am interested in the lack of compassion for people around us, and the overly compassionate for people we don't even know.
doctoligist; i'm simply trying to get people to stop voting for circuses.
@24 Sorry, I should have emailed you when my grandpa died. That was rude of me.
@24 ALSO, Remember when that woman got stabbed to death on Capitol Hill?
Save for the first two comments, people seemed pretty upset about that at the time.
are there any other actors/actresses who died shortly after filming a soon-to-be released film?... forcing us of all to watch them post-mortum... aaliyah and "queen of the damned" is the only one that comes to mind.
I'm with BA - we should all stop doing anything other than sitting quietly in our apartments, mourning the horror of life happening daily around us. I pledge to cease herewith any and all non-local/economy grieving/obsessing activities until such same issues are resolved or until I get really hungry and go to McDonalds.
Seriously, BA - people come here to read shit like this and comment on it. People also comment on the poor woman in Federal Way in forums where they want to comment on that (like with their families, for instance), and comment on the economy, should that be something that strikes their fancy, in forums where they so choose, such as daily kos (a good place for you to peddle your brand of obsessive tragedy, btw...www.dailykos.com) or with, say coworkers.
Sorry that your life is empty of the possibilities offered by having more than one interest.
I'm with Bellevue Ave. Fuck Heath Ledger! I'm glad he's dead! Stupid celebs wasting my time! Instead I will, for the rest of my life, grieve for every single person who ever dies from now on that I will never learn about. I imagine that a child was just mauled by a tiger, or a pit pull, or a badger, and so I shall light a candle for them.
Well, now we know how cruel it can be not to get an Oscar nomination ...
yes, we should all make hyperbolic statements about what i think people should do. everyone should look at themselves and ask "why do I care if heath ledger died more than other people who die?"
I hope the answers aren't absurd reductions of that question.
Okay, Bellevue, I'll bite.
I think what you are witnessing is what a piece on NPR recently called the effect of the "Monkey-verse."
Basically, for most people, most of the world's population is an abstraction. But there are a limited number of people (I don't remember exactly how many) who are not abstractions. That's why we are sadder when say, our dad dies than when we hear about a stranger's death.
Like it or not, for most people that father of 3 or woman at bus station is an abstraction. Heath Ledger is less of an abstraction because we've seen him. He's been in our homes (through the magic of tv), we've talked about his work, we feel to a certain extent that we knew him.
This does not make anyone less compassionate. It just means that certain deaths are viewed abstractly by our brain, and others are viewed in a more tangible manner.
So if you want to blame anyone, blame our brain synapses I guess.
arduos, i like that answer very much. why am i not susceptible to it?
(to be honest I did cry when yitzak rabin was assassinated)
BA, are you being a douche because you don't know you're a douche, or because you want to be a douche? Just curious.
See, the idea that some people here DO care that Heath Ledger died doesn't necessarily imply that they care if Heath Ledger died MORE than other people who die. That's your construct, not theirs. (btw, speaking of construct, your sentence structure makes it seem as though you think he died more than others who died. He didn't. He died about the same as other folks who died).
I'm interested in this story. I'm also interested in the economy. I'm also interested and saddened when homeless people are set on fire and die under a bridge, as happens several times a year here. This thread is not about those things. It's about Heath Ledger.
@17 & 22
does susan pleshette count?
Well, it probably just means that Heath Ledger wasn't in your monkey-verse but Yitzhak Rabin was.
the way people are acting, it seems like heath died a horrible death and i'm an asshole for pointing out that his loss and our loss was no greater than others and we are fools to think so.
if you can't handle a thread going out on tangents where we explore the why part of the way we feel then dont respond to me.
BA @34 - everyone's synapses are wired differently. That's why you're not affected in this way. It doesn't make others wrong to see a death like this as tragic, nor are you wrong not to. Understanding this, as most people do sort of innately, is why you're taking so much shit on this thread - you're acting as though people have committed some wrong because their brains are wired to respond to certain things in certain ways.
My synapses are also wired in their own way, which is why I called you a douche and arduos @33 responded politely with a thoughtful response.
why does my monkeyverse include world leaders of importance while seemingly everyone elses monkeyverse includes half talented movie stars?
Bellevue Ave., I'm not sure whether I think people mourning the death of celebrities they don't know on the Internet is at all pathetic, but I'm pretty sure it's no more pathetic than spending inordinate energy complaining about said mourning on the Internet.
BA @ 40: Because it does. Sometimes that's just the way it is. And there are folks who could make a case that your monkeyverse includes half-talented world leaders while theirs includes movie stars of great importance. It's subjective and depends on perspective. Again, why do you assume people aren't more complicated than this? Do you think everyone here who seems sad about Heath Ledger was not also sad about the loss of Yitzhak Rabin? Safe to assume some were not, safe to assume some said "who?", and, honestly, safe to assume some were just as crushed if not more so.
The monkeyverse explanation really isn't the only piece of the puzzle. For consumers of pop-culture, and they are legion, HL was part of what made their day whole. He was a real person in movies they enjoyed. So it isn't just that he's not an abstraction, it's that a real part of their life is now, actually, gone. You don't have to personally know a person for that to affect you. And again, this doesn't preclude these people's ability to be interested in, and disturbed by, other more serious tragedies in life.
Bellevue, without entertainment and entertainers, I would have no real reason to live other than work, pay my bills, and have sex. And read the Economist, I guess. (Woo-hoo)
tsm, perhaps you missed the part where we delved into the reasons that mourning occurs for certain people and not others. did you just jump on me because everyone else did?
@40: Because you are a saint and we are all trash. In short, you are the best, smartest, high horsiest person on Earth, and everyone else is a lowbrow prick. Happy?
Your argument is based on a false premise anyhow, because at no point in this thread is it asserted that Heath Ledger's death is in some way more significant than anyone else's. Furthermore, it is newsworthy, whether you want to admit it or not.
@28 Jason Lee in The Crow. They actually did the last few shots with another actor in his place.
And I'm not sure I knew who Heath Ledger was before today. Thanks for the lesson everyone.
No, BA, I just jumped on you because you're kind of being a douche here. You're not a douche for failing to mourn Heath Ledger, nor are you a douche for wondering why people would mourn Heath Ledger and not others. But you are crossing into doucheitude when you bash others for mourning Heath Ledger, and show little recognition of the fact that your posting here isn't inherently less frivolous than anyone else's.
Intertubez! SRS BIZNESS!
"why does my monkeyverse include world leaders of importance while seemingly everyone elses monkeyverse includes half talented movie stars?"
why? simply because you're a much better and such a more compassionate specimen of humanity than the rest of us filthy swine. one can almost feel the warmth of your being, and saintlike glow of your concern for us lesser folk through these cold and inhuman internet tubes.
i think it does preclude other issues of the day to some degree. if heath ledger hadn't died today, people would be more focused on the economy and bernanke. there is a time opportunity cost on the day of his death to say the least. when people look back and say "what happened on january 22nd, 2008?" i know a lot of people will either forget about ledger, or remember ledger and not the .75 cut.
I guess the part im finding hardest is the perspective on the matter; how does one not take a step back from the whole inanity of the situation and detach themselves from it? I get the feeling you arent swayed one way or another by his death, but are swayed by my seeming lack of relative perspective on the matter.
i guess i'm trying to fight the tide here but i feel something should be said.
Dear Everyone Who is Surprised that Bellevue Ave Said Something Insensitive and of Limited Perspective:
its newsworthy, and i question why it is newsworthy. sorry meagan, i'm actually digging for something, you're just defending your tastes in what you think is culture and news.
seriously, that is my modus. everyone should be used to me being a jerk.
@49 - You see, BA, I was also not emotionally impacted by Heath Ledger's death. I simply don't view this as objectively correct, and certainly not some evidence of virtue or perspective on my part. Why is Bernanke's rate cut inherently more important? No one will likely remember the rate cut years from now because it will be but a minor blip in the movement of the markets. Heath Ledger, if people watching a movie of his and being moved/inspired, could plausibly have more impact on their lives than this rate cut.
"if people watching a movie of his are moved/inspired"
I think you greatly overestimate the number of people who care about Bernanke's 3/4% cut in the first place. 95% of people aren't nearly that wonky. This, again, doesn't preclude their being interested in and disturbed by recent economic developments.
Example: At my office today, prior to the HL death outburst, many of the same people brought up the Dow in conversation. None brought up Bernanke. This is about being concerned with the economy in general, not getting bogged down in specifics. They care, they just don't have the time or energy to focus on every detail. And the economy will come back up when we stop talking about HL tomorrow.
You're right, I'm not swayed by his death, although I find it sad and interesting news. This is normal. Your perspective, frankly, is outside normal - not bad, but outside normal. Someone who didn't care about either but was obsessively interested in Alan Webb's pursuit of the world record for the mile would also be somewhat outside normal, although not bad.
The trick for you, then, is finding a forum or outlet for what clearly interests you. It's the age of the blog, man, there are people like you and they allow comments.
btw, as for @51: It's newsworthy because someone who a great many people "know" has passed away. It was newsworthy when Shakespeare died, too. Nothing's changed about this phenomenon for hundreds of years.
arduous wins Slog today with the most interesting, almost comment thread redeeming musings on the monkeyverse
On the bright side, it means no sequel to The Brothers Grimm.
And another thing...
Hillary did it.
Just like Vincent Foster....
@46: I was going to say the same thing, but you're thinking of BRANDON Lee, not Jason. Brandon Lee is the son of Bruce Lee, and he died while shooting "The Crow."
Jason Scott Lee is the hottie who is unrelated to Bruce but played him in "Dragon." (Jason Lee also ran around in a loin cloth in the live-action "Jungle Book." Worth the rental if you've never seen it. He's seriously one of the most beautiful men I've ever seen.
I agree with those who do not think it's vapid to feel sad when a celebrity dies. Yes, I think it's sad that a man one year older than I dies and leaves behind a baby. If I read an obituary about someone I didn't know but was the same age with kids the same age, I think it's sad. If the news reports that people I've never heard of die too young, I think it's sad. I think the deaths in Iraq are tragic (of the US soldiers and the Iraqi civilians). To Bellvue: If you think it's vapid or a waste of time to post about a celebrity death, why the hell are you wasting so much time replying to all these posts? Get off your damn high horse and shut the fuck up. Seriously.
Jo, because i want to understand why people spend their time mourning someone they have no relation to. thats more than most of you can say. you'd all rather just bash me for being oblivious to how other people prioritize parts of their life instead of being like switzerblog or arduous and showing me that some people are wired different - way different. like i am defintely not the norm on this.
thats what i'm getting out of this thread; a bunch of unthinking people who would rather just sit in their little world and attack me for saying "WTF, ARE YOU ALL HIGH? WHY DOES THIS MATTER?" and not even pursue the biological and socialogical reasons we do it.
I'm with BA - why this outpouring of grief over someone whose death wasn't exceptionally tragic?
Similar to the monkeyverse concept, I've heard this phenomenon referred to as the 'Liverpudlianisation of Society' (ref 'How Mumbo-Jumbo Conquered the World'), where people cry in the street for people they've never met, but are completely indifferent to most of those they do meet. It's a very postmodern condition, IMHO.
And it looks like we're not the only ones a little mystified, BA (I hope this link posts):
lmao, interest rates FTW! i find that hilarious; heath ledger vs. interest rates. what side are you on?
Hmm. I'm sad because I thought he was a pretty good film actor (turned a silly movie like "A Knight's Tale into one worth watching, did a great job with the difficult job of Ennis, was/am really looking forward his turn as Joker) and a rather pretty man. We won't get to see him in any more movies, and that's sad to me. It's an unexpected, unfortunate death.
And I completely fail to see how this is an inappropriate response to this news.
it isnt inappropriate, it's so completely expected that there is an outpouring like this that it makes you question the mental tenacity of the general public. do people really want anything but bread and circuses?
Heath Ledger was someone we could relate to bellevue ave, even if he was a movie star. see he did something he loved to do and got to where he was. That why some of us like those success stories. They actors are sometimes innovating. And art is just as important in our lives as the economy. Sorry about that if that frightens you.
The man was someone who is in our lives, and yes that could seem like family. He on peoples walls as posters, on our dvds, actor and film schools talk about guys like him, and there rolls have some impact on life as well.
what is with you Bellevue ave and lake and your superioity complex.
You feel as if in our mourning or being upset about death outside of our family as something Hollow? WTF?
Relax. Let people feel something deep about somebody, even if he was no mother teresa. I cannot stand it when folks get all pissy and mean when others mourn an artists death, especially actors. You act as if Politics and economy and are some god given choice for us and we have to brush aside our 'false idol' for your sanctimoniuos bullshit about the economy.
And another thing is, yes Heath Ledger was a great interesting human being of camera and on. I could argue on those points and get phylosophical and all about we may not have really known him personally, but we do not know you either. O.K. I will. Ethics lesson 101. Heath put in hard work to entertain us and make stories into life believable. He had a name as well, just like us. He had a life. and we got to sort of share that experience. so thats why we have right to grieve. and we are not brinign down the country because of it. In fact that is a huge sign we have feelings for people outside of our own lives.
You on the other hand will always just be Bellevue ave. Who the hell are you. Do you really care about the economy? Is this what you were born in life for, to attack us and help us from mourning a rockstar or actor hero. The economy going crazy. the skys falling for you about the economy. so what.
Half the people in Africa are dying to and that is getting no front page to your economic woes. And another thing is actors make a lot more contributions in terms of money going to donations and awareness to help the country and the world. For your 100 dollar contribution, if thats wrong so what ,
Heath had 20,000 to the cause of your chosing. Say all you want , but these actors and artists do live very real lives and do hard work. Maybe not politically, but socially they have an impact to some of us and we do care about the economy to. Obsession is a two a street pal. And you are truly obsesses with money as I can see in your statements. I'll take art over screwy economics woes any day thank you very much.
RIP Heath ,oh and to make Bellevue and money grubbin crybabies feel better RIP All Mighty American Dollar.
I am grateful that Keith Ledger was such a fine actor, showed such a shy, discomfort in his amazing portrayal of a gay cowboy that he humanized gayness to a public that may never have pondered that experience. I am sorry he is dead both for the loss of a young life ,and for the artestry we all likely have missed. rest in peace, may his daughter know she was loved, and be proud of who he was....
( and wtf is all the wasted shit you guys are tossin'??? give it up)
I've read some fairly articulate reasons why they care about this, in addition to other things, but BA refuses to read or process those comments, apparently. It is no one else's responsibility to make him understand; he's got all the clues in their threat to figure it out himself without the cop-out conclusion of "Other people are stupid" (translated: I can't or won't try to understand other people).
I said this in another thread, but I'll say it in this one: I enjoy watching people who are good at their craft. Heath Ledger was excellent at his craft, and watching him was pleasurable. The job of actors (as with all artists) is to make us FEEL things. When they're good, they succeed, and often we get attached to people who make us feel things, even if we didn't know them. This is one reason people are sad when an actor dies.
It's not just actors, either. I STILL get sad that Bob Ross is dead.
*this THREAD is what that is supposed to say, not threat.
That wasn't a threat.
@6, et al --
My Dear Bellevue --
You fuck with Mr. Poe, you fuck with me. You fuck with me, you fuck with fire. You fuck with fire, you get burned. Bad.
Ever see the movie "My Bodyguard?"
Well Mr. Poe = Christopher Makepeace. And you just met Adam Baldwin, bitch...come get a piece of me.
Hang on--there's a Heath Ledger movie that Mr. Poe actually likes?
And if Mr. Poe says "The Brothers Grimm" I'll punch him myself.
And take on any Baldwin in the process....
@71 -- Nappy, I'm not THAT kind of Baldwin. And you punch Mr. Poe, you might as well punch yourself.
This town has a new superhero: I'm the Green Mr. Poe Protector Hornet...thing...
Anyway, I cut you up.
My only question is...if Heath Ledger's death is so unimportant why does Bellevue Ave see the need to post endlessly on not one but TWO threads? Hmmmmmmm? I'm waiting asshole...what's you're reasoning?
I'm sure the bottoms will be whining that there's one less top in the world.
Who fucking cares about your goddamn text message conversation?
Maxine @73. Heath Ledger's death is unimportant, to everyone other than those who knew him (and no, watching interviews and looking at posters doesn't count).
What Bellevue Ave, and I, are interested in, and consider important, is the nature of people's response to the death of a celebrity.
The death is not the point, the reaction is.
I think people are reacting perfectly naturally to this. Getting overly worked up about some random interest rate thing is well, boring. No wonder you spend all your time on Slog.
Math is dumb. Art is the reason for living.
I loved The Four Feathers (surprisingly) and I had an odd teen love for 10 Things I Hate About You. I think Heath looks like a poopy anus, but I liked him. Monster's Ball was astounding, but he doesn't last very long in it. Which is arguably good, because his performance was still solid. I didn't like Brokeback Mountain, but I didn't hate it. Same goes for all of his other movies. And I never saw The Brothers Grimm, because it looked incredibly retarded.
I didn't realize Jubilation's affinity of moi. Jub, you should totally come to the next Slog Happy.
brokeback mountain was a great movie.
Relax, Mr. Protector Hornet-Thingy...
Given post #78, I need not be punchin' poe.
At least not without a safe-word....
lmao, "math is dumb, art is the reason for living?"
maybe for you that is true. see, you were supposed to learn something here about people being different and having different interests. while i care about things like math, the economy, etc, you care about art and movie stars and things of that nature. I learned that being different isn't just about big things but much more subtle things like how we react to the death of celebs. I went and looked up the concept of the monkey verse. You did nothing. You said math was dumb. You are still the same person because you never engaged this thread wanting to learn anything. Maxine, I hate to say it but you seem to revel in your own ignorance and your lack of wanting to know more.
I can't help but laugh at the irony of you tearing down my interests when you say respect your interest.
YOU POSTED HERE ORIGINALLY to TRASH OTHER PEOPLE'S INTERESTS. And then whined because people commenting on a post about Heath Ledger weren't interested in your largely non-Heath Ledger-related tangential question of "Why isn't everyone interested in stupid things, instead of the provably non-stupid things I'm interested in?"
I found a scientific basis for why we have innate biases in our interests in this particular situation. I can't help the fact I've grown as a person because of this experience.
Bellevue Ave wins.
Hahaha, Name-droppin' concern troll. "I cried for Itzak Rabine". Yer crackin' me up.
tsm @83: Again, really? You're right. Bellevue Ave is an asshat. But that has always been the case. He's always going to want to talk about opportunity costs and the economy and why people are stupid. Those are his talking points, and expecting anything else is an exercise in futility. He's ecce homo without the irony.
No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
Bellevue Ave to John Donne:
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