Greg, honey, is it supposed to be this soft?

You have nothing to back that up that can't be refuted with actions made by Obama. So they're technically equal--and they will both throw queers under the bus due to poll numbers or political expediency or "bipartisanship" or lord-knows-what. We're staying no matter what, and no matter who wins it isn't going to change the fact that we'll have our day.

Can it. And get a sense of humor.

carry on, huh.

"Carry on my wayward son/
the'll be peace when you are done/
lay your weary head to rest/
don't you cry no more."

(i couldn't resist.)

seriously though? i don't know who or what to think anymore, esp w/ edwards and guliani (sp? sorry!) out.

This is true. But will it blend?

But apparently one singer at one fundraiser that the candidate wasn't even at is justification for voluntarily stepping in front of the bus for some people. Battered spouse syndrome much?

Yet it seems unlikely that Hillary would stoop to accepting VP, but it might prove to be good insurance for Obama. And like LBJ said: "well, I hadda hunch..."

The Clintons would once again live rent-free, this time at Observatory Circle, with all the perks that come with the job - cars, planes, travel, maids, interns.

Hillary would have a White House office though presumably without the Svengalian power of Cheney. As Second Gent, Bill would experience less scrutiny than he would as First Gent and could carry on a few discreet affairettes. He could also (like Lynn) write a fictional book about his daughter or his mistress or his dog or a black woman president, fairly treated.

Or you could run a poll with Hillary as president with her fantasy VP choices.

Well, the old pale-faced, broken-boned McCain and his gift horse - 9/11 Julie Annie - are about to come on Jay - so this fairy tale is now reached the point of "and they lied happily ever after..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuTqgqhxVMc

And lets see Hillary go in front of a black audience and tell them that they need to stop being homophobes. That's likely.

Obama's got the war and the "change" factor.

Hillary's got the healthcare and the "this is just the way things get done" factor.

Ah Richardson, you made it so easy before you were out. Who's gonna bring him in as VP?

At this point, my money is that if Obama gets the nod he'll go with Mark Warner as VP.

But we shall see. Still several rivers to cross.

Thanks.

But your plan on how to dispose of Gerorge Bush? Fucking flawless! Now thats an idea I can get behind!

Did you not read your own link? McCain beats Hillary by 8 points, Obama by 6.

Oh crap. I didn't see your next comment. Ignore mine. Thanks.

Hillary's still getting beat by a slightly wider margin and plenty of voters still don't know whom Obama is.

Add to the fact that Obama raised an additional $32 million dollars and will be pumping up the airwaves with a flood of commercials....

And Hillary's gap will increasingly widen

HRC is on the downslide. However she has so many paid proponents who have an agenda, that they are keeping her name in the mainstream, which isn't resonating with the reality of the thoughts of Joe Average voter.

Hillary is beginning to realize that it isn't likely she'll be the candidate. She still puts on a good face and talks a strong game, but you can begin to see signs.

She had a marked difference in her demeanor of the past week. Just watch her debate performance again with a critical eye. Watch her live appearances and note the fatigue and stress.

Obama and his supporters will wear her down.

McCain beats Hillary. So what you're really saying with your endorsement is that you prefer four more years of republican leadership.

Obama beats any republican.

So to all the Sloggers who say their favorite candidate wouldn't/shouldn't offer or accept VP to or from the other one: are you totally insane?

That's uncanny!

Everyone after kesh@35: You say Obama would do much better against McCain. I show a piece of data that refutes this. You wave your hands and/or talk about the unreliability of polling. Provide supporting arguments for your position or shut the fuck up.

Clinton/Obama 2008!

Being a VP for Clinton will do wonders for Obama's presidential aspirations. Just ask Al Gore.

And this: if any poll shows Hillary about even with Obama or behind by a few points in a race with McCain, that shows Hillary is more electable than Obama. Because she's been slimed already while Obama hasn't been. You cannot judge how Obama will do in a general election from the data we have so far, which includes no election in which he faced a tough GOP opponent and no election after he's gotten his GOP sliming.

"Hillary Clinton is currently viewed favorably by 47%, unfavorably by 51%. Barack Obama is viewed favorably by 51%, unfavorably by 45%"

[Mr. Gore]
Boy, the day I signed on to be his running mate was the stupidest day of my life. I had to be VP for 8 years and that really sucked.

Then because I was VP I won the nomination for President and that really sucked.

Then I lost the Presidential election, well not exactly, but anyway, all that Florida shenanigans -- that was all Bill Clinton's fault. The chands and all that. Bill Clinton personally hung thousands of them.

Then because of all that I had no reputation, no gravitas, no nothing, so it made it impossible for me to go on or do anything else meaningful like win the Nobel prize.

Then in 2007 I sure didn't have the best chance of anyone to run for president if I had chosen to do so.

If I'd only refused that VP slot, I would have been so much farther along in all my ambitions.

Mr. Canadian "of" Renton: I believe if you look at history you will see that the VP has a huge chance of becoming president and is hands down the very best "former" job to have if you want to be president. If you don't take it, you let someone else get ahead of you.

Clinton is the nominee for prez:

Who should be Vice Prez?
Obama
Edwards
Richardson
Other

Obama is the nominee for prez:

Who should be Vice Prez?
H. Clinton
Edwards
Richardson
Other

Now I know I made the right choice.

You are correct that being VP greatly improves ones odds of becoming president. My point was that Gore might have overcome all the Florida shenanigans with more votes if President Clinton had not given the Repugs so much ammo to go after him with. I'm not saying Obama shouldn't take the VP slot if Clinton takes the nomination and offer it to him, but doing so wouldn't have as much benefit as it would being VP for someone less divisive.

Canadian?!? I don't know whether you think I'm black, lesbian, or actually from Canada. Aside from the fact that I enjoy rap, women, and hockey, you'd be way off on all 3.

thought you once said you were Canadian, how terrible to assume you were American. If my error, regrets.
____
You response (@42) following my point (239) pretty clearly disagreed with me and suggested OBama shouldn't take VP. ("Being a VP for Clinton will do wonders for Obama's presidential aspirations. Just ask Al Gore").

You're backpedalling and spinning now because that was what your words plainly meant.

Even now you hedge about whether Obama should take VP.

Again: are you insane?

In the annals of history when one reads about the Democratic Race of 2008, they will not read about ideals and glory of the moment, but the back room deals and the fear that manipulated a party to abdicate all that it once stood for, and that is equality.

It is not equal that two legacy families run by an old man, Ted Kennedy, and the son of Richard Daley Sr chooses their pawn, a black junior senator from Illinois, in order to secure the White House, a White House that Kennedy has coveted since the 1960s. Ted Kennedy and Richard Daley have divided the democratic party in a manner that is more than despicable, but shameful to any man or woman of ideals and hope.

In the annals of history when one reads about the Democratic Race of 2008, one will read about the lack of equality by one race to many. Obama’s victories lie within the caucus framework, where congressmen/senators/political leaders are held captive by a plurality of African Americans who are at war with the freedom of the secret ballot. Without question, the only strength of the Obama/Kennedy Faction is the inner cities and political leadership who that machine supports. Historians will write how Sen. Obama used the speeches of great leaders (faith, hope, charity…Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Paul Douglas, Fulbright, etc) as his own, plagiarized those true and breathless words in order to perpetrate upon the public, and youth, that those words were original to his thoughts. Obama does not create his own speeches – he rewrites old speeches that historically reverberated around the world.

It is not equal that a candidate, due to race, claims victory in caucus states because of threats to Caucasian, Asian, Latino politicos. That is not integration: that is the creation of an oligarchy in the Democratic process, where the party is run by a few, not the many.
It is not equal that Obama and “his SS troops of African Americans” as one Caucasian legislator whispered in Idaho hold captive the majority and all other minorities by their cannon of votes. Historians will write how the Obama campaign used its black constituency to subtly and openly threaten democratic leadership of those of Caucasian, Asian, Middle Eastern descent – their black bullet, their refusal to support a sitting legislator or new candidate if they fail to vote Obama. Sen. Obama’s wife Michelle and Oprah Winfrey will be written as the worst offender of the deadly black bullet of coercion.

Historians will write how in the cold fields of Iowa and the river streets of St. Louis how thousands of Chicago precinct workers descended upon Iowa and Missouri and forced the nation’s first caucus/SuperTuesday primary to play by their rules, not the people’s rules. These advance troops did the unthinkable – they wrote down names of those who opposed Obama, and whispered that if they continued to oppose Obama, their careers as public servants was finished or limited. And historians will write how in the western part of the state, true patriots of equality refused to cavel to the black bullet and stated equivocally to the Chicago Machine, we are men and women of decent and moral fiber, and we will judge as to the issues, not as to false words, or veiled threats. The rest caved in to their fear of being unelectable.

Part Two

The Tyranny of Senators Kennedy and Obama

It is not equal that this 2008 Democratic election will be written by historians as the ’08 Presidential Race engendered not by race, but by one race, African Americans manipulated by a dying legacy created by Ted Kennedy, a man whose thirst for power is well documented, and whose moral behavior is without question disreputable. Ted premise was not that of his brothers, Jack or Bobby. Ted’s solution to the impoverishment of heart and soul to the African American was to dress them, feed them, and provide them housing – all style and no substance. And thus in the inner cities, the African American languishes amidst poverty, resistant to education, carving a living from petty crime and drugs, sexually permissive, and when prosecuted, Ted Kennedy allowed the African American community to use “race” as a means to escape justice all paid by US taxdollars.

It will be written that under President Bill Clinton, who made tough choices, who provided the inner city with the resources to climb out of that hole - but put limits (3 years) on welfare, increased police within the inner city, prohibited the baby manufacturing by African American women – an industry that was manipulated by the African American male in order to produce higher returns on the welfare money – and provided education and the opportunity in order that a man or woman, irregardless of race, gender, etc would be enabled to leave a corrupt and immoral environment. At the same time, by doing the right thing, Clinton empowered the DEA to shut down and prosecute drug dealers in the cities, in the rurals, and in Central and South America. And it is that environment, the inner cities, who most strongly supports Sen. Obama and his promoters – Ted Kennedy and Richard Daley - and who most strongly resist the campaign of Sen. Hillary Clinton.

History will write about the manipulations of the ’08 elections, and how Sen. Ted Kennedy formed with Sen. Obama an agreement, and that come the Democratic Convention in ’08, Ted will be named the Vice Presidential candidate, and if not him, then Kerry, or Richard Daley. And in Massachusetts, the people voted loud and clear they did not want Ted Kennedy/Obama manipulations. Why? Because they know the Chicago Machine and the city patronage system. Who will control the White House? It won’t be anyone from Seattle, it will be filled with the Chicago patronage system.

Historians will write of the overt manipulations by the media to influence an election – CNN in favor of an independent candidate or Sen Obama, FOX in favor Romney, and of an assortment of BLOG authors that have no real understanding of history nor political consequence but full of soap box convictions and bully pulpit bragging rights.

History will write many things – not always favorable to Sen. Obama – but one thing is certain – historians will not write kindly of the election of 2008.