Comments on Hutcherson Booed at Mt. Si High School MLK Assembly
I think he must have meant that 2/5s of him is Out to Lunch.
His daughter sucks.
He still talks to you?
At least North Bend does something right...
Actually the 3/5 thing didn't mean slaves were 3/5 of a person. They didn't get 3/5 of a vote for example. They were 0/0 or a person as they got 0/0 of a vot, and 0/0 of any rights at all.
The 3/5 deal was that they counted as 3/5 of a person to boost the weight in congress and the electoral college of the whites in the state. In other words, if Georgia and Connecticut each had 200,000 whites they should have equal nos. of represnetatives and electoral college electors, right? No! Georgia got to add in its slave poplation at the 3/5 rate so its 200,000 whites would have representation for themselves and for the slaves too, giving all slave states far, far more power per white person than the non slave states.
In other words, the pro slavery bias made whites unequal, too. Jefferson won the presidency because of this inequality in voting power of northern whites and southern whites. Most presidents before the civil war were Southerners and were slave owners.
The southern whites got representation for themselves and for the blacks who couldn't even vote.
Today, many people who decry being 3/5 of a person back then totally like the basis of Senate representation and the electoral college today, in which a California or NY citizen is only 1/20 of a person compared to a citizen from Wyoming or ND.
DC citizens, largely African American, are still today 0/0 of a person for purposes of representation in Congress.
Rights in the bedroom? Is that what the gays are fighting for? That doesn't seem so hard to achieve. Keep on fighting!
unPC: Your math is way off. California's population per electoral vote is 660,000, while Wyoming's is 171,000. Not equal, but hardly 20 to 1.
Also, you can't divide by zero.
That last paragraph needs to disappear. It's irreverent and childish. That being said, Hutch is a walking, talking douche bag of a contradiction.
Come on, man, that last paragraph is classic Eli Sanders FOX News sensationalism!
So does this conclusively prove that there's a genetic basis for the total inability to comprehend irony?
Sounds like he believes that gays are 3/5ths of a person. Shit, by that logic, that would make trannies what, 1/8th of a person?
Coretta Scott King, MLK Jr.'s wife, was an outspoken supporter of gay equality.
"I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people. ... But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.' I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.’s dream, to make room at the table of brotherhood and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people."
Send Randy Taylor at Mt Si and email, I did. taylorr@svsd410.org
@5 -- 0/0 is what's called "indeterminate" meaning that it can be equal to any number, including infinity, under different circumstances. You mean that they got 0 rights, or 0/1 rights. 0/0 is not usually equal to 0.
@8-- Actually, you can divide by 0 once you get past high school algebra, but you get weird things. Any nonzero real number divided by 0 gives you either positive or negative infinity, but 0/0 is a different case as mentioned above.
(math nerd)
"...who pushed strongly for equality for skin color.” Umm... his speech just wasn't about "skin color" it was about all types of freedom. Dr. King speech went something ohh,,,, like this, "when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, "Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"
"A disrespect to my kids"?
Way to go with that grammar, yo. Word.
Good for the GSA, for calling him on his hypocrisy. That's fantastic, and it's exactly what they're there for. They have no obligation to remain silent out of respect for his bigotry, or for his daughter's ignorance.
But I wonder what he expects to gain by meeting with them? Is he actually looking for a "fight" with his daughter's peers? What a creep. I hope they tear him apart.
@18
"I hope they tear him apart."
Unlikely. Ever try to polish a turd?
Good for the teacher that asked him the question...Hutcherson IS an intolerant a*s and he deserves to be known for what he is....Intolerant...
Good for the teacher that asked him the question...Hutcherson IS an intolerant a*s and he deserves to be known for what he is....Intolerant...
So, I'm from mount si highschool and was there when all of this happened. You guys have no right to say anything. You don't KNOW ANYTHING. You're all idiots. Rev. Hutch didn't say one word about his views on people being gay. He was there to discuss race and religion. NOTHING ABOUT SEXUALITY. Just because it's an issue now doesn't mean it should be talked about in school. I LOVED rev. hutch speach. He was empowering and made a good point. Mrs. McCormick was WAY WAY WAY out of line to even say anything about it. The committee who set this assembly up happens to be close friends of mine. They talked to the teacher to make sure it was ok he came. She said it was, just so she could say something like that. It was the MOST disrespectful thing i have ever experienced here. You see, MLK JR. Day is not about sexuality it's about race, the bringing of people together. Not sexual orientation. He was a great speaker so just leave it alone. AND GROW UP!!!! I hope he comes back. And also to take it this far is horrible. So all of you who are dissing and saying horible things about mount si and the principle. GROW UP. Leave us alone. you don't know anything. I stand behind what Rev. Hutch. And think the GSA at this school is retarted. Do you hear me? RETARTED. Do you know all the good things we do at this school? NO because no one pays attention to that. Why don't you come visit and see everything? You know why? because you don't care that much. You just believe whatever you are told to believe. You know what. Mrs. McCormick and all of you who are saying horrible things about our school and Rev. Hutch, need to grow the fuck up. Get a life. It's been taken way to far.
So, I'm from mount si highschool and was there when all of this happened. You guys have no right to say anything. You don't KNOW ANYTHING. You're all idiots. Rev. Hutch didn't say one word about his views on people being gay. He was there to discuss race and religion. NOTHING ABOUT SEXUALITY. Just because it's an issue now doesn't mean it should be talked about in school. I LOVED rev. hutch speach. He was empowering and made a good point. Mrs. McCormick was WAY WAY WAY out of line to even say anything about it. The committee who set this assembly up happens to be close friends of mine. They talked to the teacher to make sure it was ok he came. She said it was, just so she could say something like that. It was the MOST disrespectful thing i have ever experienced here. You see, MLK JR. Day is not about sexuality it's about race, the bringing of people together. Not sexual orientation. He was a great speaker so just leave it alone. AND GROW UP!!!! I hope he comes back. And also to take it this far is horrible. So all of you who are dissing and saying horible things about mount si and the principle. GROW UP. Leave us alone. you don't know anything. I stand behind what Rev. Hutch. And think the GSA at this school is retarted. Do you hear me? RETARTED. Do you know all the good things we do at this school? NO because no one pays attention to that. Why don't you come visit and see everything? You know why? because you don't care that much. You just believe whatever you are told to believe. You know what. Mrs. McCormick and all of you who are saying horrible things about our school and Rev. Hutch, need to grow the fuck up. Get a life. It's been taken way to far.
So, I'm from mount si highschool and was there when all of this happened. You guys have no right to say anything. You don't KNOW ANYTHING. You're all idiots. Rev. Hutch didn't say one word about his views on people being gay. He was there to discuss race and religion. NOTHING ABOUT SEXUALITY. Just because it's an issue now doesn't mean it should be talked about in school. I LOVED rev. hutch speach. He was empowering and made a good point. Mrs. McCormick was WAY WAY WAY out of line to even say anything about it. The committee who set this assembly up happens to be close friends of mine. They talked to the teacher to make sure it was ok he came. She said it was, just so she could say something like that. It was the MOST disrespectful thing i have ever experienced here. And to take it this far is horrible. So all of you who are dissing and saying horible things about mount si and the principle. GROW UP. Leave us alone. you don't know anything. I stand behind what Rev. Hutch. And think the GSA at this school is retarted. Do you hear me? RETARTED. Do you know all the good things we do at this school? NO because no one pays attention to that. Why don't you come visit and see everything? You know why? because you don't care that much. You just believe whatever you are told to believe. You know what. Mrs. McCormick and all of you who are saying horrible things about our school and Rev. Hutch, need to grow the fuck up. Get a life. It's been taken way to far.
PS Feel free to email me. if you dont think im right. go ahead TRY IT
I go to Mount Si High School, I helped plan the assembly. The assembly was planned by the student body for the student body so that the students would be able to learn more about Dr. King and his way of thinking in a way that wasn't boring to them. If any of the people that posted comments saying that they agreed with McCorrmick, actually went to our school they would know that the only reason that Pastor Huthcherson was able to come and speak at the school because McCorrmick allowed him. In my opinion and I know it is shared by many people, that the only reason that McCorrmick let Pastor Hutcherson speak at the school was because she knew that she would be able to publicly attack him. She knew that by saying something she would get a reaction out of someone and it worked. She made herself look extremly stupid because if she had listened to the assembly instead of being immature and booing with her fellow immature teachers she would have known that Pastor Hutcherson didn't talk about gay rights or anything that had to do with the rights of gays, he talked about his experiences growing up Black and what it was like for him. So if you were not at the assembly and don't go to Mount Si shut your mouth and GROW UP!
I think it's great that Hutcherson was called out in front of the whole school. That he doesn't believe in equality for all people is a shameful thing, especially in light of his personal experiences with being discriminated against. There is no such thing as 'equality for only some people'. That wasn't the message that MLK Jr. brought, and his widow made it clear that his equality message applied to all people, gay or straight.
If Brooke Nicholson is indicative of the education at the school, Rev. Hutcherson is the least of their problems. Nevertheless,
The problem is not in what the preacher said at the assembly. It is in the prestige given to the preacher by the school. He was presented as a model, an authority on human rights. But Rev. Hutcherson has a very poor history of applying human rights to those whom he does not like.
But when Rev. Hutcherson speaks outside the school and encourages discrimination against gay people, they will be less likely to recognize his call to oppress gay citizens as being contrary to human rights - because he has been presented to them as a supporter of human rights.
Additionally, it is unfathomable how any administration could possibly think that it is acceptable to subject gay students to a speaker who has publically attacked them. If a known racist was brought to school and black kids had to sit and listen to a man that sought to deny their humanity, we'd all protest. Or if a speaker had verbally attacked Christians in the past no one would expect Christian kids to be subjected to him. Let's not treat gay kids with any less respect.
Even if you think they are "retarted" [sic]
I graduated from Mount Si last year and I was astounded to hear about what happened. I agree that what was said was inappropriate timing, but Ms. McCormick does have a point. It's interesting to hear that the students went to her first to ask if it was ok, because from what I heard the GSA talked to Mr. Taylor (who has done nothing beneficial for the school since he began there, by the way) and complained about the speaker 3 weeks in advance, so obviously there is some mix-up to the story.
Brooke Nicholson, I understand where you're coming from in that Mr. Hutcherson's daughter should not have to go through that, I understand how hard that would be, but when you have someone who makes their opinions about homosexuality that clear, you will always have opposition. If they wanted an assembly that celebrated African Americans and equality of skin color in America, they should have picked a speaker who was not as controversial. It also baffles me that you would put yourself out there has being completely homophobic and saying the GSA is "retarted" (it's spelled r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d, sweetie, and is not a politically correct term to use either) when you don't even know what the GSA stands for. It is about the equality of all people, including gays, lesbians, straight people, and bisexuals. Treating someone differently because they have a different sexual orientation than you is just as unacceptable as treating someone differently because they have a different skin color than you.
Anyway, I am saddened to hear that Mr. Hutcherson's daughter was dragged into this because I love their family, but I can see both sides of the debate. People need to open their minds and stop being so disrespectful of other cultures, people, sexual orientations, skin color, religion, and so much more.
If it's true, as the students above seem to be saying, that the teacher who called out Hutcherson during the assembly was also the teacher who approved him as a speaker, then I have to say that's pretty terrible. For her to invite someone as a speaker with the secret agenda of ambushing and publicly humiliating him is pretty rude, to say the least, and sets a bad example for the kids.
That being said, Pastor Hutcherson was a completely inappropriate choice for a school Martin Luther King Day assembly, and never should have been approved as a speaker. It's true that MLK may have focused mainly on civil rights based on race, but symbolically he represents equality for all people. An assembly to honor MLK should have an overarching theme of inclusion and equality for ALL people. You wouldn't invite a notorious sexist to speak at a high school assembly to honor a day about inclusivity, even if he only spoke about race and didn't directly address his own prejudices. So why is it okay to bring in someone well known for his intolerance of homosexuals? I'm continually amazed by the ability of some people to compartmentalize which differences it's okay to discriminate on.
First off, I take offense to the poster who IS a Mt Si student who said the Gay Straight Alliance is "RETARTED." You spelled "RETARTED" wrong. That is really dumb. Also, the term is offensive.
"And think the GSA at this school is retarted. Do you hear me? RETARTED."
You are too young to understand right now why having Pastor Hutcherson speak was so offensive to many people. Many of us see him as a hate monger so having him speak at an event that honors Martin Luther King was wrong. He was a poor choice.
I would not expect Mt Si High School to have a leader of the Ku Klux Clan speak at an assembly even if that person had a child who attended the school. So having a leader of a movement that preaches to prevent the civil rights of roughly 10% of the US population is in poor taste.
Regardless of whether the teacher you mentioned said she would allow the assembly or not, he should not have been there as a primary presenter. If he had to come, the principal should have had the good sense to invite more speakers so there was a more well rounded group of presenters that better represented all the students.
Pastor Hutcherson has chosen to stand for things that are offensive to many. I fully support his right to do so. That is what makes America great. While I disagree with his views on many things I totally support his right to say them.
I think the principal should have taken leadership on this issue and not forced "Mrs. McCormick" to be have to be the fall guy one way or the other if things transpired the way you said they did.
I feel bad for Pastor Hutcherson's daughter. This situation must be hard for her.
I know the children of my friends who are gay have suffered a lot because of the actions of Pastor Hutcherson and others like him though. He has demeaned their parents and their families for years under the guise of Christianity.
I would love to see Mt Si High School have an assembly and invite other speakers to honor Mr. King. Perhaps they can invite some of our prominent Asian leaders in the Seattle area who can discuss their childhood experiences. Perhaps they could invite Sherman Alexie the award winning Native American author from our area to discuss his life experiences. Maybe they could extend an invitation to some prominent local gays or their children to discuss what they have endured.
I am not a student at Mt. Si High School. I am a parent of two children in the district though. I hope that when they are older they will speak out and protest if they see someone given a platform who has a history of discrimination.
P.S. I think the Sex Toy ads etc make this an incredibly inappropriate site for youngsters to be on. The Mt Si High School poster should ask their parents if they can visit this site or read it with them.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
I am glad there are schools in Seattle and kids that receive an education and are not forced to hear PK Hutchersons hate filled bigotry. I witnessed elementary school kids marching in the streets today, the teachers wanting to show them what participation and standing up means and what Martin Luther King really represents to our society. ?HUTCH should take a lesson from those children. I am sure that they get it. ?I also wonder why the news reports on TV are not reporting on the GSA asking why this man was going to speak at MT SI. ?Hutcherson seeks out publicity because this serves his f'd up ego. He knew he would be questioned. I praise the teacher for showing students that you can question hypocrisy! ?A word to the students of MT Si. Don't be SHEEP!
First off, I take offense to the poster who IS a Mt Si student who said the Gay Straight Alliance is "RETARTED." You spelled "RETARTED" wrong. That is really dumb. Also, the term is offensive.
"And think the GSA at this school is retarted. Do you hear me? RETARTED."
You are too young to understand right now why having Pastor Hutcherson speak was so offensive to many people. Many of us see him as a hate monger so having him speak at an event that honors Martin Luther King was wrong. He was a poor choice.
I would not expect Mt Si High School to have a leader of the Ku Klux Clan speak at an assembly even if that person had a child who attended the school. So having a leader of a movement that preaches to prevent the civil rights of roughly 10% of the US population is in poor taste.
Regardless of whether the teacher you mentioned said she would allow the assembly or not, he should not have been there as a primary presenter. If he had to come, the principal should have had the good sense to invite more speakers so there was a more well rounded group of presenters that better represented all the students.
Pastor Hutcherson has chosen to stand for things that are offensive to many. I fully support his right to do so. That is what makes America great. While I disagree with his views on many things I totally support his right to say them.
I think the principal should have taken leadership on this issue and not forced "Mrs. McCormick" to be have to be the fall guy one way or the other if things transpired the way you said they did.
I feel bad for Pastor Hutcherson's daughter. This situation must be hard for her.
I know the children of my friends who are gay have suffered a lot because of the actions of Pastor Hutcherson and others like him though. He has demeaned their parents and their families for years under the guise of Christianity.
I would love to see Mt Si High School have an assembly and invite other speakers to honor Mr. King. Perhaps they can invite some of our prominent Asian leaders in the Seattle area who can discuss their childhood experiences. Perhaps they could invite Sherman Alexie the award winning Native American author from our area to discuss his life experiences. Maybe they could extend an invitation to some prominent local gays or their children to discuss what they have endured.
I am not a student at Mt. Si High School. I am a parent of two children in the district though. I hope that when they are older they will speak out and protest if they see someone given a platform who has a history of discrimination.
P.S. I think the Sex Toy ads etc make this an incredibly inappropriate site for youngsters to be on. The Mt Si High School poster should ask their parents if they can visit this site or read it with them.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
Blog Tool goes puntuation crazy with the question marks. ????
Blog Tool goes puntuation crazy with the question marks. ????
His poor daughter should be embarrassed to have a father like him.
Ms. Anderson,
How about this thought experiment:
David Duke goes to your school to give a speech on Breast Cancer Awareness. It is an "empowering" speech. His speech contains, to paraphrase your words: "NOTHING ABOUT RACE AND RELIGION".
Are you okay with that? Are we idiots for being upset?
...
Obviously Rev. Hutcherson is a much less odious figure than David Duke. But good lord - the man is talking about equality and civil rights issues out of one side of his mouth while opposing equality for others out of the other side of his mouth. This is f***ing ironic and upsetting.
...
I don't think booing was a good idea... the post makes it clear that the booing pissed off a lot of people.
I DO think asking challenging questions, calling him out on his particular intolerance, is a GREAT idea.
"I think the Sex Toy ads etc make this an incredibly inappropriate site for youngsters to be on"
Ads? What ads?
see also: Adblock Plus
#32 right on.
The school had a homophobic hate-monger speak - in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King.
The mind boggles.
First off, the teacher did not know until the morning of the assembly that Hutcherson was gonna be at the assembly. I, myself, am a student at Mount Si. I agree that perhaps that was not the best time for McCormick to speak out, but when else would she be able to reach the entire student body? It is entirely good to have students question, that is the only way to learn.
However, McCormick was not talking for the GSA. She was talking as a person who was tired of listening to this hypocrite blabber on. True, he told us his story and that was good for probably many students. However, when he spent most of the entire speech talking about how he "joined football to legally hurt white people," many students felt bad and guilty for things that they themselves have never done. We are not the ones who hurt or abused Hutcherson, so why should he continue tell us how much he HATED white people, how much he HATED MLK Jr. Why would he tell us that his goal in football was to kill at least one white person before he graduated? How is that at all a good message? He didn't even do what he was supposed to do right. I was waiting on the side-lines prepared to step in if he said anything about gays. My friends and I were all waiting. I am glad that he was able to leave that aside, but still. You wouldn't have some dictator come talk about civil rights, would you? You wouldn't have a robber come talk about the importance of obeying laws and respecting other peoples' property?! So why have him come? Because no one learned from the last time. Many of us were terribly uncomfortable having this man who is so bigoted that it makes me gag tell us how much he hated our type. Mount Si is very much a mainly white school, genius.
It was not the school that chose the speaker, it was his daughter. The GSA specifically asked him not to speak. And those that booed him were completely unrelated to the GSA. This is not about the GSA, it is about the hypocrite that spoke very carefully only about "equality between the races," not equality between all people. Those that booed him were really actually just one person. That person was not even a student, it was another fed up person who couldn't believe that Mount Si had to listen to this man again. His daughters are fine people, but he was the one who dragged them into this. McCormick did not "attack" him as the news is so trying to tell us. She tryed just to ask him how he could talk about equality when he was so adamantly opposed to gay and lesbian rights. It was mere coincidence that the teacher who spoke out was the advisor of the GSA, it was not a planned "attack" on him.
But I'm not upset with those who chose him. If I had heard the announcement to be on the board to choose the speaker and organize the assembly, I would have joined. However, I did not and now I'm stuck ranting. Brooke, you are an idiot. You are the type of person that the GSA is most trying to reach. You don't have to support gays or lesbians, but at least recognize that they are as human as anybody else.
Randy Taylor should be fired. All parents with kids in this school district should call upon the superintendent and the school board to dismiss Mr. Taylor immediately.
The schools student committee's met in December to discuss the event and WingNut Hutcherson's participation. The students GSA committee as well as the faculty advisors objected strongly to the invitation. At that time the administration assured the students and the faculty that he would not be invilted because of his controversial nature. Taylor LIED to the students, faculty and ultimately the parents. The teacher in question was the GSA advisor who was told he would not be there. She did the right thing by standing up and should be commended.
Ah, Brooke. "And think the GSA at this school is retarted. Do you hear me? RETARTED." That made my day.
Brooke..."And think the GSA at this school is retarted. Do you hear me? RETARTED."
"It is better to be thought a fool and remain silent than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
-Abraham Lincoln
Adriana Goodwin, you do not know what you are talking about as Mrs. McCormick, Mr. Goldhammer, Mr. Potratz, and all of the other teachers WERE NOT INFORMED that "Dr" Hutcherson was coming. He came 2 years ago and the teachers made a deal with the administration that he would not come back. Mrs. McCormick was not at the assembly at the beginning but was called by another member of the Mount Si Faculty to come down because Hutch was there and she was planning to grade the "A Separate Peace" papers during the assembly. Obviously those plans were broken and she came down and decided to ask that question as the administration broke their deal that the GSA would be allowed to prepare a statement if Hutch ever came back. GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT
Brooke, the issue is not what the speaker said, but what he stands for and to say that the gay/lesbian issue isn't discrimination but the black-white issue is is absolutely hypocritical and you must consider what he stands for when inviting him. Plus if the teachers were actually informed that he was coming before they saw him during the assembly (which they weren't contrary to popular belief, they never got an itinerary or were ever approached by anyone) then this issue may have been stopped.
I am currently astudent at Mount SI and am very offended that Hutch even was considered as a speaker for our MLK assembley. The majoristy of his speach was composed of him saying that the only reason why he started playing football was so that he could legally hurt and/or kill white people, that the snow in ALaska was the wrong color, and that when he was our age he supported the black panthers and similar groups. He did very quickly say that his views switched more towards Dr. King's views at the end of his senior year... but this comment seemed to be just an afterthought.
I comletely aree with #36... the teacher who asked ?'s was in a hard possition and had every rite to question Hutch... I was sitting rather close to her and she seemed genuenly hurt that the school would allow him to speak to the students, espacially sice 5 years ago he spoke at our school and almost the entire faculty disaptoved and hundreds of complants were made to the administration. I'm saying that it took everything she had to keep herself from bursting into tears.
I am amazed at how much our school district has screwed up. I have heard sooo many other things that have happened. I'm sure that if you do just a little bit of reasearch on your own you will discover a plethera of other incidents similar to this one.
#39 is completely accurate in what happened... if you want more as to what went on see their post.
#45 is right, Mrs. McCormick was in tears as she asked the question
I am also a student at Mount Si High School, and I strongly support Mrs. McCormick in everything she did and said. She was told that Hutch wouldn't be coming. I find that the fact he was even at our school to be offending.
And to those who say that she was out of line by saying it there, in front of a student body of 1,400:
"The time is always right to do what is right". Straight from the mouth of Martin Luther King himself.
I just had to add that I completely agree with most of what has been said above me. Brooke also said something about looking at all the good things that Mount Si does. Like what exactly? I graduated last year and I wanted nothing but to escape. I have discussed this entire issue with people that I now go to college with and they were baffled that two or three years ago, when the GSA was formed, it was met with huge opposition. People were tearing down posters, writing inappropriate things on walls, and not paying attention to facts. If they had gone to a meeting and seen what the GSA stood for, maybe they would've understood that it was not promoting people being gay, but promoting equality and understanding between people of all sexual orientations.
Mount Si High School and its administration were completely useless when it came to all things that they should have taken care of. I will bet thousands of dollars that Mr. Taylor will not be removed, even though this is far from the first complaint against him. If anything Ms. McCormick will be scolded for what she said, even though it was the right thing to do. There needs to be a serious look into the administration of Mount Si High School and the Snoqualmie Valley School District. I, as a student, had multiple problems that I brought up, and that my parents brought up, with the school board and with the school and literally nothing was done about it. They do not care about their students.
P.S. I talked to my brother, who was at the assembly, and he said that he did not hear booing where he was sitting and that even when Ms. McCormick put forth her question it was met only with awkward silence. The story above and what is being regurgitated in the media makes it sound like there was a giant mob booing Hutcherson, which was not true.
I am very dissapinted in this administration. I cannot understand why they would let such a bigot speak at our school. fyi... I ws trying to decide if I should move back w/ my mother in socal or not and I tought that I should stay here because of the school... I'm now moving at the end of this school year... I love the students but I cannot handel the admin. any longer... this is rediculous
I am especially troubled that Principal Taylor is quoted as saying that "all the students of color'" were very appreciative of Dr Hutcherson speaking. Did he single out each "student of color" to get their point of view? If he did, that is wrong too. How can he speak for each "student of color" ? It seems like he is implying that if you are a racial minority(non white) at Mt Si you have one opinion. He is not recognizing the uniqueness of each student regardless of their race. His comment is incredibly racist and ignorant.
I think it is interesting too that he can speak for "all of the students of color" but when asked to consider the appropriateness of the speaker for the gay students he kept quiet. He seemed incapable of considering that the speaker may be upsetting to some.
I am happy that some students and teachers and parents at Mt Si High School are bright enough to realize the irony of having Dr. Hutcherson speak about civil rights. I think we need to pray for Dr. Hutcherson. I think he is ignorant and that is sad.
I think Brooke is really ignorant too. I think the grace Christians who understand what love is, need to find it in their hearts to be better than these two ignorant people.
It is interesting to me that all the people who preach hatred usually have something in their hearts they are running from. If you are comfortable with your sexuality you do not need to bash others.
I think most people in Snoqualmie Valley understand that Dr. Hutcherson and even silly Brooke who can not spell well, have the right to their opinions. We just think that people who preach hate should not be invited to speak at a public school.
Okay for one, the GSA is made up of like 5-10 nut jobs. and if they are going to ruin just about everything mount si (1400 other kids) does on a daily basis, they need to be stopped. They need to get over themselves and start living in the world that the rest of this population is living in.
Second, The students at the school really don't want the GSA to exist, it is really an embarrassment to a legitimate learning environment for kids who want nothing to do with Gay and lesbian people. they just want to get there education and move on.
Third, if a student were to stand up, boo, and oppose as these teachers did it would be an instant suspension and possible expulsion. They have no right to justify what they did. it was wrong, it hurt a family, and what does it teach kids and parents? that our teachers are pretty stupid and dumb? I really dont want my child going to this school anymore because nothing really good is coming out of it right now.
Finally, none of the kids at mt si really knew who Ken hutcherson really was, why couldnt it just have stayed that way.
There was booing by Mr. Potratz, it is confirmed by Goldhammer, and "An Angered Parent"- I know who Ken Hutcherson is and I go to mount si so u need to get off your high horse and act like an actual adult. And the GSA IS WANTED AT MOUNT SI even though I am not a member, I support it
Maybe the GSA is not wanted by ALL but if it helps anyone at all, then it should be there. Mount Si is one of the last high schools I know that DIDN'T have a GSA. And I went to Mount Si and I knew who Ken Hutcherson was and what he stood for. Do not assume EVERYONE at the school is ignorant.
I also am a student at Mount Si High School and I believe that what Mccormick said was required. I personally did not know who Hutcherson was until later that day, had I known I would have walked out of the assembly. Mount Si has a policy of "No Place For Hate" and yet we feel it is appropriate to allow this bigot to speak?
As for Mr. Taylor he ruined the moment. He could have made this moment one of Mount Si's greatest moments. A time for us to shine above our reputation. Sadly he responded incorrectly to the situation. He wrote an apology letter to Mr. Hutcherson, he wrote a letter to the students and their parents (link is at the bottom).
Now for the GSA, comment #52 has the right point about GSA. It is wanted, and it has a lot of prejudice against it but people want to attend and want to be a part of a chance to change the school, and the world, for the better.
And Angry Parent the GSA is made up of a group of highly intelligent, motivated people. They are the ones in this world who fight for change. They are the Lincolns, the Martin Luther Kings, the Ghandi's of the world. They are the ones who make a change. For you to believe that they are 'Nut Jobs' then what are you? Comment number 42 had it right.
"It is better to be thought a fool and remain silent than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
And now lastly Brooke. I am sad you see it as such. Mr. Hutcherson didn't speak anything of homosexuality in his speech but he is a symbol of anti-homosexual feelings. His daughters are great girls, but they should have reconized that bringing him to our school was a mistake. A student who spoke before Hutcherson said something akin to (as I don't have the direct speech avaible to me)
"Today is about respecting everyone in this gym" Everyone means the homosexual students, the students of color, the religous students, smart ones, stupid ones, short, tall, brown haired, or blonde. He was referencing everyone in the school and we nodded and applauded him. Also Brooke you say "GROW UP. Leave us alone. You don't know anythin" Most of the blogs are by students and know what they speak of. Ms. Mccormick is one of the best teachers at our school and was near tears at the event. Lastly she didn't speak for GSA, she introduced her position by saying she was the advisor of the club.
Wow lady... #51... yeah... I'm talking to you... I really think that you have no clue what in the hell you are talking about. You are crazy. Actually, alot of kids at this school really do want the GSA, myself included. Infact, YOU JUST INSPIRED ME TO JOIN THE GSA WITH YOUR FLAMING BIGOTRY... Mam, with all due respect you are the nut job... not me. I am a student at Mt. Si and if you and your child can't get over your scewed realities, then I really don't want you or your child going to "this school".
Lady, its time to get over yourself and start accepting others. Mam... be a good person, I know you have it in you.
Bigot, straight from potratz haha
its funny when an arguer is ignorant
well this is quite an entertaining discussion, its fun being a middle man
Ignorance is Bliss sometimes
"January 18, 2008
Dear Parents/Guardians,
On Thursday, January 17, Mount Si High School held an assembly to honor Dr. Martin
Luther King, Jr. The assembly featured guest speaker Ken Hutcherson. Mr.
Hutcherson related his personal experience of growing up with racism, and how the
powerful teachings of the late Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. gave him inspiration. The
assembly also included a performance by a Samoan Dance Troupe comprised of Mount
Si High School students who entertained and enlightened others about their culture.
During Mr. Hutcherson’s introduction, one staff member booed, and at the conclusion of
the assembly, another staff member questioned his views on a separate issue. The
selection of Mr. Hutcherson as guest speaker created a climate of controversy. The
issues and concerns related to these matters are being addressed at Mount Si High
School.
The administration at Mount Si apologizes for how these events have unfolded and the
impact on our students. An apology has also been extended to Mr. Hutcherson. As a
result of this event, the approval process for special programming such as assemblies
will be reviewed and more clearly defined.
For some students, the incident served to overshadow the speaker’s message about
equality. For others, it sparked discussion around tolerance, respect for others and civil
rights. We encourage parents to discuss these issues with their children.
Again, we apologize for the impact of these events on our students.
Sincerely,
Randy W. Taylor
Randy W. Taylor
Principal "
-This was the letter issued by the principal of Mount Si High School addressing yesterdays "event". It is blatantly obvious that Mr. Taylor chose not to take a stand. Although in the past he has been very nice and respectful, it is inexcusable that he and the rest of the administration has not already taken the action to "[review the] approval process for special programming such as assemblies". They should have been reviewed last year when the "skit controversy" occurred. I am thoroughly disappointed.
wow trevor you are sooo smart
of course the principal isnt going to take a stand either, hed prefer to have a job you dumbass. do you realize how much bullshit those letters are, they are only written because they are mandatory, the letter was also revised twice, to make everyone happy.
because for some reason nobody wants to live in reality, they want to live in happy land, this dream land that Martin Luther King told of...
well i know you will never be able to comprehend it but there will never be equality.
ever.
its a nice dream, but everyone cant be equal, or we would be communists. how about we start throwing truth into what we say not belief or oppinion
We need to stand up and speak for what is right, and we need to make it public. So how can we do this? Savvy, Xandy, Re-Tarted, Suzye, Mt. Si Parent, Jason, Irena, Molly? What can we do together to move Mt. Si toward a more evolved and tolerant place?
Is there anything we can we do to help people like Brooke and Adriana and Angry Parent?
Ideas?
fire taylor and get rid of the bible are the only 2 that come to mind that will fully resolve the matter.
the getting rid of the bible was a joke by the way. Today I came to school and someone said that gays are all going to hell so there shouldn't be a GSA anyhow. Her father is a pastor and she said that what Mr. Hutcherson stands for is 100% acceptable and he should have went against gays at the assembly. I asked her what she would do if I told her I was Gay (which I am not for those of you who know me) and she said that she would never talk to me again if I was gay. This ignorance infuriates me and this is what is wrong with religion, people try to interperet the bible wrongly and use it for their personal beliefs and gains when the bible is about loving everyone, I cannot believe the narrow-mindedness in our community.
Brian @ 58,
Well I'm glad that you have an oppinion, that is all that you have an oppinion; that is all that I ask of Mr. Taylor. Sometimes, standing up for your beliefs is more important then a job. There are other jobs that Mr. Taylor could have besides being the pricipal at Mt. Si. As for your statements on equality, it is not currently a reallity because of people like you who choose to make it onky a dream, so close but just out of reach. Maybe if you had dreams such as Dr. King equility would be reality. I have confidence that humanity is inherently good and that people are only superficailly cynical. Do you agree?
I have never commented before on one of these. However, I just watched the news and after asking my own children(two teenage boys) how school was today, I couldn't believe what I saw on the news tonight. My boys (not from Mt Si school) talked about their assymbly today, also on Martin Luther King, and the rest of their day.They received the message of EQUILATY for all of mankind promoted by Martin Luther King not EQUILATY for just the colored. Even though I hope that my children won't find themselves as homosexuals, I will still support and love them because that is a choice that we as EQUAL humans are allowed to make. It is a part of us now. To tell our children that it is wrong is not a HOLIDAY that we should be observing as a Government holiday. I really hope that you support your teacher for having the courage to stand up to someone whom is minoritizing our children. He obviously already expressed his feelings and comments on this particular subject. Jennifr Stumbaugh.
My daughter is a student-athlete at Mt. Si. When she arrived home after school and told me about the assembly, I was horrified. Now reading some of the posts above I am even further distressed.
How is it possible that a small group of students was allowed to arrange a public display of their narrow-minded agenda? What sort of process put such an openly hateful, ignorant man at the dais for an all-school assembly? An assembly dedicated to celebrating equality for all, no less! What on earth could Randy Taylor be thinking when he offers an apology to Hate-monger Hutch, but extends no such mea culpa to McCormick for his lack of support?
Taylor would do well to remember that he is at the helm of a public institution. I'm sure he'll be happy to explain his "approval process" as well as his lack of tolerance toward minority students to the ACLU.
As a member of the board that runs the mt si GSA, i have this to say.
The idea of MLK was equality. Not for equality of some and not of others, "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." It is a day about equality, and for celebrating a man who fought for equality. That a man like Hutcherson can stand there and say he supports equality horrifies me. And not, necessarily, because he is anti-gay. He could be anti straight and i would still take the same stance. He is, quite simply, a hypocrite. That the administration would allow him to be there is an abomination. It, essentially, comes down to two words "captive audience". I do not agree with Hutcherson, why should i be forced to go and listen to the man speak? Had it been an optional assembly, i can assure you there would not have been this debate, to a lesser degree perhaps, but not this inanity.
As to those who argue that McCormick's actions were too abrasive or untimely. Please look up and read MLK's Letter from Birmingham Jail. Right in the middle of it he makes two statements which i have paraphrased here.
1. For anything to be accomplished there must be tension, to create tension one must take actions that seem rude or abrasive. If everything works smoothly there will never be change.
2. In the eyes of the oppressors, there is NEVER a right time for a rebellion.
-Leigh M
And, I forgot to add this.
The fact that he was there to begin with, (minus the blame at the administration) is not the fault of the GSA or the kids who planned it. There were a few genuine communication breakdowns that resulted in each side thinking something different had been OK'd by the other. Each group is entirely blameless.
- Leigh M
i would just like to add that the man booing (Mr. Potratz) also believes that in the spanish american war the U.S. obtained the philippines by use of imperialism. If you expect me, being a student in his class to respect this man in any way or form you are crazy. I have had it with his biast opinion on everything. The only things i have learned in his class thus far have been all extremely opinionated. Today for example we read an excerpt from Mark Twain called The War Prayer. In it contains information leading one to believe that believing in religion is wrong and how he (Potratz) protests war. Now understand i am not very religious at all but the point im getting at is that it seems that poking fun at majorities (religion) is an okay thing while if i were to pass out a paper equally as hateful toward gays i would be shunned upon and considered a horrible person. i believe this is ridiculous. Not only this he has a poster in his room of how bad and wrong our current president is. I dont walk around school putting up posters of how wrong gay people are (i dont believe this by the way) because i would get in trouble because i would be offending minorities which in this country seem to become more and more important than the majorities. Now, i believe the speaker chosen to give a speech was a poor decision by the school but the teacher had no right to boo him. I respect how McCormick stood up for gays and i dont see a problem in it. I dont respect however that our washington schools throughout the state have let teachers like Mr. Potratz continue to teach their left wing opinions in class rather than actual fact. Throughout my schooling i have predominately been influenced to believe what teachers say frankly because they are there to teach us the right things and that is what we as students have been lead to believe they do. But many teachers that i have had have only taught me their opinion on topics (mainly related to history) and that is not what school is for! If i wanted to learn about your opinion i'd come to you after school and talk but not during class when the teacher is supposed to be presenting students with knowledge that is not opinionated. These types of teachers need to be dismissed from their jobs immediatly and be replaced with teachers who are capable of doing their job right. i am so sick of being able to learn more in 30 minutes from teachertube.com than what i am being taught in school for a week!
"For anything to be accomplished there must be tension, to create tension one must take actions that seem rude or abrasive."
The same characteristics apply to war as well which im sure many of you regulars are against including the war in Iraq. have a good night ;)
I am the teacher referred to above. I was absolutely unaware that Ken Hutcherson had been invited to speak at the MLK assembly before it happened. Had I known beforehand, I would certainly have protested. I stood to ask Ken Hutcherson a question at the end of the assembly because I knew I couldn't live with myself if I let his bigotry (disguised as tolerance) pass unchallenged. I would, and will, do it again if need be. His message has no place in any school. As for timing, if an assembly on equality is not the place to raise the issue of gay rights, I don't know what is. Kit McCormick
Mrs. McCormick,
I really do hope you lvoe my article that im writing for the school paper. I will be in Tuesday morning and would love it of you would read it!!!!!
Well said Andrew in (67). Miss McCormick i am beginning to side with what you did. and i am now seeing the just in it. What you did was rude but look what it did to our community. i wouldnt have picked a more perfect time to stir the ears.
on the second hand, as opposed to McCormicks attempt to intellectually start a fire, Potratz's attempt to attack hutcherson by booing was absolutely the wrong way to go at it. it totally goes against what a school is there for.
and trevor to respond to you, this is true mr taylor can get another job. but does mr taylor want another job? im going to take a flat guess on that one. i think he likes it at mt si and just because a few ideas are not what he believes in, he should immediately quit and join somewhere where everyone has the same views as him? there are already those all over the world, they are religions. and really as long as there are more than one religion there wont be total equality. we may get along with other religions but we are not the same.
And about me believing there wont ever be equality... ive been to every continent in the world except australia and let me tell you. equality isnt even close to what this dream wants to accomplish. not in 100000 years will it become reality. i really do dream of equality, that is partly what the war in iraq is about. but how are we going to reach equality to everyone without becoming a communistic establishment. look at all other countries that pushed for communism, the two majors are russia and china. try living in those countries.
What makes america great is that we are more equal than most other countries but we are also allowed to be diverse in the way we do things. there are people who believe homosexuality is a perversion, and some think that it is a civil right. in a lot of other countries, you dont get the choice to decide whether you are pro or con about homosexuality.
on another note majority should come first, always. you cant please everybody, so please more than less. there will always be minorities. new ones show up everyday. and its not just the homosexual minority but many others are slowly sucking away our freedom. look at it this way, how much freedom do we really still have? its only a matter of time until we cant have comedy shows on tv because a minority thinks it is unjust.
i hate Mr Potratz. he is a left wing freak. one day in class, half the class was asleep, so he started whispering and he said "im whispering because i dont want to wake those who are sleeping", hes a really really good teacher... NOT
if it means anything i think hes the worst teacher ive ever had, im pretty sure i havent learned one thing in his class except maybe that he supports homosexuality and he loves the book huck and finn
All the GSA does at our school is cause problems, we finally were able to get rid of the day of silence. that stuff is BS. GO be gay but get that perverted stuff away from me and away from our school.
PS isnt homosexuality kinda like bestiality??? bestiality is definitely a perversion but if homosexuals think its okay to be homosexual, dont you think all those that like animals have the same rights?
"Finally, none of the kids at mt si really knew who Ken hutcherson really was, why couldnt it just have stayed that way."
That, angered parent, is precisely why having Hutcherson speak in this context was so ill-advised, and frankly dangerous. It is also why it was imperative that someone have the guts to stand up in opposition to Hutcherson's bigotry. You see kids, who have know idea of Huchterson's very reason de etre as a media figure will now think "Hey, that's that guy our school had speak about tolerance at our school" when they see him on the news spouting his anti-gay bigotry, and be far more likely to accept his arguments, in fact it would lead them to give more wieght to his arguments. Given what is being said about Taylor and his past opposition to the GSA and the Day of Silence, I suspect that this effect is precisely what he and Huchterson had in mind when arranging this little speaking gig.
One apology that is noticeably absent from Mr Taylor's letter is an apology to the Gay and Lesbian students and thier friends and family for being forced to sit through a lecture on equality given by a raving anti-gay bigot with his approval. Again, I have to ask what links are there between Mr Taylor & Hutcherson? Does Taylor attend Antioch? Has Taylor participated in any of Hutcherson's anti-gay crusades?
Hey Stranger Staff, how about getting a public records request for any petitions turned in on either of Hutcherson's non-discrimination law repeal efforts, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that Taylor's signature appears.
Seattle has so many wonderful leaders from different backgrounds who should be welcomed as presenters at Mt Si High School. We also have many multicultural associations and museums.
I am particularly impressed with the Wing Luke Asian Museum.
They have a lot of exhibits on the issues Asian Americans have faced. Their experiences have been similar to the discrimination that other minorities have faced in our country.
Perhaps arranging a field trip for students to The Wing Luke Museum would be a good start.
Ron Chin and David Delgado two esteemed local Asian Americans have really fascinating life stories and may be good presenters.
Lenny Wilkens is a charismatic person and star athlete and revered coach who may be a good choice for a speaker.
Sherman Alexie would be an excellent presenter to discuss his experiences as a Native American and author who grew up in WA on a reservation.
Shelly Krishmamurthy is an Indian woman in Bellevue who has spoken at Overlake School and Newport High among other places. She has a really powerful story about her experiences after 9/11 where she was discriminated against. Students at Newport High School have said they were incredibly moved by her presentation.
The Stonewall Riots are a famous time in gay history. A presentation about that period of time would be interesting. Parents and Friends of Lesbian and Gays could come and speak after the presentation.
There is a Christian woman whose name escapes me who was staunchly anti gay. Her daughter ended up killing herself partially as a result of not being accepted by her mom. Having her speak would be excellent.
Perhaps the GSA or Principal Taylor can host a variety of presentations in the gymnasium that are open to the community at large that give a broader perspective on the issue of civil rights.
I am really pleased at how many people in the Snoqualmie Valley understand the issue with having Pastor Hutcherson speak. Most of the people I have talked to about it who are troubled, would likely identify themselves as heterosexual and Christian. I think that is funny considering that Pastor Hutcherson seems to attack gays and holds himself up as a Christian leader.
I think Principal Taylor does not understand the depth of his error but I suspect he thinks he did the right thing by having Pastor Hutcherson speak.
I hope he grows through this experience and writes a letter to the GSA too that lets them know he is TRULY sorry if the speaker selection was upsetting to them and members of the Mt Si area community at large.
If Hutcherson's daughter was embarrassed, perhaps she should look at the real reason as to why she would have been embarrassed then, and strangely not when her father abominated Dr. King's message to serve his own biggoted views. Her fathers ignorance and hatred toward LGBT brothers and sisters is cause celeb for that man NEVER to be invited to speak to our nations youth about equality. The Hypocrisy is overwhelming.
Dr. King did NOT fight for equality based upon "skin color" as Mr. Hutcherson stated, but instead he fought to see all forms of discrimination against any and all people brought to an end. To use Hutcherson's name in the same sentence further perverts the message that a great and determined man delivered to the sleeping consciousness of America.
If I were Hutcherson's daughter, I would be inclined to offer my own apology to those people he offended by stating only heterosexual persons deserve equal rights. I would hope that my apologies to my fellow classmates for the wrongful discrimination against others would be heard, and that my classmates did not think I might be as hateful.
Her father should be pittied, not apologied to, and if he can't wrap his pea-sized shriveled heart around the notion that EVERY man, woman and child residing in this great countryin deserve the same rights as anyone else, then he should think twice about showing up in a public school and speaking to the topic of equality at all.
As for the Principal in that school, has nobody seen that his inviting Mr. Hutcherson to speak to his students is a slap in the face of the school district's policy on tolerance and the right to learn? Bringing a public evangelical hate-mongerer into the school to address the students - at the very least - suggests that he (and the district)agrees with Mr. Hutcherson. Whether his daughter founded the notion or not, the Principal has a responsibility to edit the participants of any studant rally to ensure that the students are not offended by the speaker. SHAME on you!
It it sad to say that neither my son, a graduate of Mt.Si, nor I were surprised to hear of the choice by the principal of Mt. Si, to allow a man who publicly espouses descrimination, to speak at an assembly about equality.
If one were to look below the surface, one might find that there is a systems problem within this school district which has allowed, and continues to allow, people with questionable judgement to hold positions of authority here.
Until a recent intervention by the US Department of Education, the district allowed students with disabilities to be denied access to the alternative school based solely on their disability. Thankfully, strides have been made to correct this wrong which persisted for at least twenty years!
It is up to the superintendent and the school board to set the tone for the district and to make sure that from the top down, everyone works in compliance with the law. This includes providing equal opportunity for all, freedom from descrimination, and teaching tolerance.
I question how a principal who allows students to wear T-shirts with the message: "I love gays" (on the front of the shirt)and (on the back) "killed", (or was ignorant to the fact)on the Day of Silence, has any business making decisions for teachers or students.
Mt Si's current principal is but one in a string of principals passing through its revolving principalship over the last 10 years. Why?
The students and teachers at Mt Si have been short changed and resultantly so has our community by fragmented leadership at our one and only high school. The emotional and physical safety of students at Mt Si has suffered as a result as well.
I applaud Ms. McCormick for questioning the hypocracy which was force fed to the Mt Si student body. It is with people such as her, that meaningful change occurs.
I am thankful that this issue came into public scrutiny. Perhaps the district administration will sieze this opportunity to reflect on and review it practices to ensure that its schools are providing a safe learning environment for everyone. Maybe then, some of the many exceptionally positive practices occurring in the district schools will come to forefront for public appreciation and celebration.
Brain,
You seem like you're a smart kid, so I hope you'll read and take this to heart.
Communism as a social system and government is dead. The USSR is buried and China is basically bureaucratic authoritarianism. And they both paid lip service to equality, while not living up to its ideals.
The majority should not always trump the minority. The majority can definitely be wrong - See Germany in the 30s and 40s or our own country's history with slavery. Sometimes the minority is the only thing protecting everyone from tyranny.
Homosexuality is not something to be pro and con about, it just is. Yes, there are countries where people are killed for being homosexual and I'm glad I don't live in one of those countries. But there are also countries (such as the one to the north of the USA) that have full rights for homosexuals at both the provincial and federal level and I wish the United States would do the same.
As for Iraq... completely not justified and made the US weaker in our world standing, economically, and militarily. We should've concentrated on making Afghanistan a success and I'm sad that we've been so distracted from that mission by Iraq.
"ive been to every continent in the world except australia"
Tell me, how was Antarctica?
IT WAS NOT THE GSA WHO BOOED HIM;
IT WAS A TEACHER I WAS SITTING RIGHT THERE!!
THE GSA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!
IT WAS NOT THE GSA WHO BOOED HIM;
IT WAS A TEACHER I WAS SITTING RIGHT THERE!!
THE GSA HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!
he did not offend the kids what so ever.
he just embarresed himself infront of a whole entire school.
equality is Equality, IT IS STILL DESCRIMINATION.
he was there to talk about EQUALITY among others.
not rant on and on about himself.
For our own sake, please.
equality is equality, and that's it.
equality among ALL people.
not just skin color.
it was a day about equality, and he shouldn't had been speaking if he didnt believe in all equality in all people, fair and square.
he just embarrassed himself.
Honostly, I dont think the is an issue that should make people single others out. I am a member of the GSA but that doesnt mean I'm gay/lesbian. They're just some of the descent people in the school who accept everyone. If you have a problem with the people or homosexuality in reality/Mount Si HS....THEN HOMESCHOOL YOURSELF! We dont need any further drama so just DROP IT!
Honostly, I dont think the is an issue that should make people single others out. I am a member of the GSA but that doesnt mean I'm gay/lesbian. They're just some of the descent people in the school who accept everyone. If you have a problem with the people or homosexuality in reality/Mount Si HS....THEN HOMESCHOOL YOURSELF! We dont need any further drama so just DROP IT!
okay. i'm from mshs. Hutch was a complete hypocrite.
END OF STORY.
I would have to agree with Ms McCormick, it was exactly the time to speak. This man is nothing but a two faced hypocrite. He feigns tolerance but preaches bigotry and hate. I truly feel sorry for his family and the members of his church. A phrase comes to mind that seems appropriate "there is none so blind as he who can not see", this to me is Pastor Hutcherson. He seems to forget that we are all gods children, black, white, yellow, gay, straight, etc. it is not for him to single us out and condemn us it is for god to decide.
Brooke Nicholson, your by far one of Mount Si idiots. What a fool and embarassment you are to the student body. If you got nothing nice else to say just dont open your mouth. Thanks. =)
*P.S. Wow, take a grammar writing class before you even attempt to write a word you dont know how to use. I find it quite hilarious!
hey unknown dude, the whole point of this whole argument on this website was to preach equality for everyone. if you like singling brooke out, your just as hypocritical as hutch is
I too am a student at Mount Si.
Hutcherson may be a political activist, but he never brought it up, and his speech was not meant to address ANY issue of the sort.
Rev. Hutcherson said that he became a Christian because of Martin Luther King Jr. That said MLK was not gay. He was a leader of a church, and followed what the bible has to say when it comes to getting married (that it’s between a man and a woman).
The thing is, racial equality and giving "extra" rights to people who are homosexual are two completely separate issues. Leave it to a Language Arts teacher to take two completely different subjects and make them look like the same thing.
The fact is that what McCormick did was out of line, disrespectful to our guest, unprofessional, and mostly just very rude. On a day where we were supposed to be remembering how Martin Luther King changed America for the better, she had to throw her own selfish monkeywrench.
This came to me as such a blatant insult to Martin Luther King and his memory. It was truly uncalled for, and made every feeling of pride I had in MLK feel cheap and worthless.
This of course led to debates throughout the day and people taking sides. By all means, form your opinions, but there were many people who were harassed in school because they were on the side of Hutcherson. So apparently I am allowed to stick up for what I believe in, ONLY IF it’s what you believe in? I believe that the issue at Mount Si, which is supposedly "No Place for Hate" is the fact that you aren't able to stand up for what you believe in, unless it is entirely politically correct and eye-pleasing to everyone.
and to unknown,
"if you got nothing nice else to say just dont open your mouth."
i sure hope you dont go to mt si, your the definition of dumb
good comeback though to brooke, "i find it quite hilarious"
if 99% of the world believed being gay is perverted, is being gay perverted?
if 90% of the world believed being gay is perverted, is being gay perverted?
if 80% of the world believed being gay is perverted, is being gay perverted?
if 75% of the world believed being gay is perverted, is being gay perverted?
if 70% of the world believed being gay is perverted, is being gay perverted?
if 65% of the world believed being gay is perverted, is being gay perverted?
if 60% of the world believed being gay is perverted, is being gay perverted?
if 55% of the world believed being gay is perverted, is being gay perverted?
if 51% of the world believed being gay is perverted, is being gay perverted?
also remember,
Republicans are against homosexuality
Democrats are for homosexuality
now that doesnt mean all republicans hate gays and all democrats love them.
for example, both Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama and John Edwards are against same sex marriages.
and all the republicans are attempting to really put a CONSTITUTIONAL ban on same sex marriages, except Guiliani who just opposes it
And no, I don't beleive that Taylor is in any way affiliated with Hutch's Antioch church. Seriously, if you don't go to the school and know these people personally, I wouldn't go there.
Personally, Mr.Taylor is the only person keeping Mrs.Castle from turning our school into a crazy anti-competition communist camp soo...
And as for something somebody else said earlier about him not apologising to gays and lesbians for sitting through his speach... Hutch never said one thing that could have angered one of them. Mr.Taylor didn't invite him, and I think the apology should really go to him, considering he's being put through all this crap, having to please everyone. He's not succeeding obviously, but is it really a crime for him to have an opinion? I think considering how rude it was of McCormick, he only deserves an apology. McCormick isn't even my teacher, and as student even I feel like apologizing to Hutcherson.
My goodness people.
"Hutcherson may be a political activist, but he never brought it up, and his speech was not meant to address ANY issue of the sort."
By your logic, if David Duke came to your school and gave a talk on the benefits of recycling, that would be fine - because "his speech was not meant to address ANY issues of the sort."
"On a day where we were supposed to be remembering how Martin Luther King changed America for the better, she had to throw her own selfish monkeywrench."
How selfish of this teacher, to stand up for equal rights for all - and on Martin Luther King Day, a day celebrating achievement in civil rights, no less!
Lastly - we don't want "extra rights". We want EQUAL rights - the right to be a hero and serve in the military, same as everyone else; the right to live and work free from discrimination, same as everyone else.
94:
The particular thing that McCormick was asking about in the assembly was how Hutcherson felt about gay couples getting health care, a reference to the petition Hutcherson was trying to get signed so that gay people didn't get health care benefits from the employers of their spouse's. A right which is not available to alot of srtaight couples either. This has been done in 28 other states, making US the minority.
SO yes, I think that's where you start pushing EXTRA rights.
To put it in another context, the mormons of america are no longer polygamous, because they wanted to be Americans. Those are rights regarding marriage. Are we saying now that mormons don't have equal rights? No, they do. They have exactly equal rights. There is nothing stopping gay people from sitting in the fronts of busses. In fact, in today's overly PC world, if you are part of a minority you can get away with just about anything.
It's because we're overly PC that guys sports have had to have been cut from universities because they want an equal number of girl and boy athletes. It's because we're overly PC that black people require lower level entry requirements to get into universities, because they don't want to seem like they're discriminating. It's because we're overly PC that everyone is excited bout getting a woman or a black person in office.
Natalie C,
If someone compared you to a terrorist or implied your family was somehow less than another person's family how would you feel? If someone encouraged others to demean you and try to make sure you were not treated equally would you be outraged?
I hope you would be.
If that someone then was invited to come to your school and speak about civil rights and treating others as equals wouldn't you be upset?
The principal knew who was coming and what he was known for. If he did not, then he is not well informed and should not be an educational leader.
You have the right to agree with Pastor Hutcherson's views. Having him speak at a public school to students who may be gay, or be the child of a gay person, or a friend of a gay person, or a progressive that understands that civil rights should apply to all, was wrong. If he spoke at a private school or at the university level where people could question him a bit that would be different. At a public high school it is wrong.
For the person that says that Democrats are for homosexuality and Republicans are against it. You need a bit of a history lesson. There are many different political issues that lead people to choose their party affiliation. The Republicans have tended to be the front runners in denying equal rights to gays. That is true. There are plenty of gay Republicans though.
Having Hutcherson speak seems like a gay/straight issue on the surface but it really is not. It is about allowing a speaker who may be incredibly offensive to some speak. A leader needs to make the tough choices and decide when someone may not be a good fit.
That was not done.
Pastor Hutcherson probably had a moving story to tell. He obviously is charismatic and appealing to many. He should be able to tell his story. I respect his right to do so.
I think there is a place for everything though. Mt Si High School was not that place.
I do think at times we can be overly PC.
I think demanding that all people are respected is not overly pc.
Some of the things you may consider overly pc allow you to go to school.
I work in developing countries where girls often do not even get the chance to go to school. It was not that long ago that black people did not have the same educational opportunities either.
I think people may be excited about getting a black person or a woman in office because it shows that the playing field is getting more level. I suspect that people are excited about them though because they are strong candidates.
This debate is really not about Affirmative Action, Gender and Sexuality, Race or even Republicans or Democrats.
It is about creating an atmosphere for learning where all students are respected.
Guests at the school who have made many feel disrespected should not be welcomed.
To Good One: i sure hope you dont go to mt si, your the definition of dumb
*Well look's like your one of Brooke's dumb friend I'm assuming. *Laugh out loud. I actually go to Mount Si for your information. I know the way she is. It's really funny in what she has to say about everything thats what I'm pointing out. Always making negative remarks about everyone, thinking she's right. By far if you actually have been looking at the past post's by other people they agree she has no sense of respect for others. Calling the GSA "retarted" and it's pointless. I'm just standing up for the people who are supporting what Ms. McCormick mentioned about equal rights to everyone.
Love it or hate it, Everyone should be equal no matter what.
no i was just pointing out that when making a comeback which involves improper grammar, you might want to make sure you spell and say everything correct also. i dont even know who brooke nicholson is.
I am currently a student at Mt Si and I feel Ms McCormicks actions were untimely and overly personal. Just because she 'feels' that Hutcherson is a hypocrite, doesn’t mean a student body of 1400 people wants to believe it with her. Just because she 'feels' she is in her place to publicly attack a speaker on a personal level DURING an assembly doesn’t mean she is in her place. In fact 89 sums it up nicely. It was unprofessional for a teacher to boo and it was unprofessional for a teacher to force her opinion on the rest of us. For those of you that think she is ‘just asking a question’ YOUR WRONG! She asked this question to empower her views and to put Hutcherson on the spot. This is incredibly rood and disrespectful. While she ‘feels’ Hutcherson is presenting inequality, she is setting a bad example for everyone because equality in belief is arguably the same as equality in color and sexuality. She bashed Hutcherson’s beliefs while trying to force her beliefs on people at the same time.
To molly jester,
As far as creating an atmosphere where all students are respected at Mount Si, what you say is undenaibly true. That IS the root of the argument. The root of my argument is not what Hutcherson has to say about gay people. If you go back to my first post (89) you will see that my main complaint is that what happened in a school setting was just downright innappropriate.
However, it's the subject of what exactly was appropriate that bugs me. I don't think it was appropriate for McCormick to stand up and address that issue in a pre-planned public assembly. She could have addressed it privately in the classroom, or written a letter of complaint. While the same thing was going to be said by Mr.Goldhammer (he told us that he would in class) I have more respect for him because he didn't actually say anything.
The other innapropriate thing was how many teachers allowed this topic to take up their entire class period afterwards. We have finals next week, and I'm sure there was a better way to spend that time. Some teachers who took sides with McCormick publicly shot down students in classroom discussions saying things like "You have tro be a heartless person if you think that..." etc. I think I might have stated here earlier, one of my friends was being harassed so badly for standing up for her opinions that she had to leave school. Which proves that school is not a safe place, and waws not a safe learning environtment under these conditions. Other teachers while pretending to make this a learning opportunity welcomed this into their classrooms, and watched the few and proud from BOTH sides get hurt by the masses.
And as you say, if it were a private school or a college it would be fine. But we all know the public school system is messed up. You don't have to start a debate to prove that.
KevinS
I am currently a student at Mt Si and I feel Ms McCormicks actions were untimely and overly personal. Just because she 'feels' that Hutcherson is a hypocrite, doesn’t mean a student body of 1400 people wants to believe it with her.
Hutcherson personifies hypocrisy by actively fighting civil rights while presuming to wrap himself in the great legacy of Martin Luther King Jr. Hutcherson is the type of evil Dr. King was fighting against. If you have ever read Dr. King's works, you would know that it is he that demands all just people to stand up against injustice any time it rears its ugly head.
I strongly urge you to open your mind and read Dr. Kings words.
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. "
-Martin Luther King Jr.
Hutcherson has elected to make himself an instrument of evil. In the narrow corridors of his clouded mind his soul grasps towards malice and hate embracing them like a warm blanket.
"While she ‘feels’ Hutcherson is presenting inequality, she is setting a bad example for everyone because equality in belief is arguably the same as equality in color and sexuality."
-Kevin S.
In case you all missed that, I thought I would point that out. If people in a school setting can be discriminated and bashed and called bigots because of their beleifs, and if this can be encouraged by staff members nonetheless, then it's really not equality, or an appropriate place for learning, is it? Everyone thinks that they're right, but that doesn't mean that you have to point out to everyone against you that your ideas are clearly more important than theirs.
Some students dislike teachers because of theirpolitical beleifs coming through in the classroom. So if it is questionable even in a small classroom with 20-30 people, why is it NOT questionable in a large assembly of 1,400, where she's not only trying to make 1,400 beleive her, but also insulting a guest of our school? The school was not an appropriate place for this kind of a display. Not that she doesn't have the right to say what she wants, but she was clearly not on the assembly agenda, her remarks were HIGHLY provocative and controversial, and should have been saved for a more appropriate time.
Thank you for your insight Mt Si Parent. I will look into Dr. King's words.
Also I forgot to include in my previous post:
Ms. McCormick represents the GSA, which strives to improve relations between gays and straights. (gay rights, etc.) This brings me to the question of "Why?" Did this outburst solve anything? Did it better the relationship between gays and straights which she is commisioned by the school to do?
I forgot to include that I DO agree that it was inappropriate for Hutcherson to speak, but there is NO excuse for being unkind like that in fron of that many people. Why is it okay to judge Hutcxherson as "evil" just becasue his beliefs are different then yours?
Natalie C,
As an advocate of gay rights, I'm asking you what your beleifs and opinions on the topic of gay rights are... what are they?
Now, I have just asked you a question similar to Kit MicCormics, in a public place where I can assure you there are highschool children present who may be easily influenced. Now I do realize that there are some major differences between the two situations... but...
Was it wrong for me to ask you this question? Is there a more appropriate place in which I could have asked it? Was I trying to influence highschool aged children?
...looking forward to your answers...
your friend,
Trevor
Just like to say that I've never been more proud to call myself a Mount Si graduate. I always grew up learning that the reason we celebrate MLK's life is because he stood up for equality and justice for all even when it wasn't popular, even speaking his mind under the constant threat of death. I feel like they did far more to teach kids of Mr. King's message than Hutcherson ever has. Absolutely inspiring.
Trevor your an idiot in (105),
Heres where i stand,
Homosexuality is not what God has designed this universe to have, if you are a believer in god.
If not, then homosexuality is not necessarily discrimination, it is perversion like bestiality is said above.(idk#)
The bible is a lot like our constitution, whether you believe or dont believe in the bible, there are a lot that do, a lot. Like a whole lot.
Civil rights cannot be for everyone, as someone else stated above, illegal aliens, prisoners who have commited a crime, etc.
A lot of people talk of everyone being equal well then might as well release the inmates, we treat them like psychos and lock them up and deprive them of a lot of things, all this to keep the better people safe.
and we calling america the number 1 country, well thats not fair to be the best.
I think no child left behind was the worst law ever passed in congress. to make all kids equal , dumb or smart.
i dont know i just think of the word equality as being in such a broad term, where there is no such thing as total equality.
Also if i were a manager at a store would i hire a mentally disabled person over a normal person because the normal person can work better? hell yeah i would. guess what i cant do that because law says that i have to consider to hire just about every kind of person. if specifically didnt hire the mentally disabled person for being mentally disabled i would get sued and lose my company
Trevor,
Given the context, I think your question was perfectly okay. For instance, we are not in school or a school function right now, and we are not supposed to be studying right now. We are also not in an assembly of 1,400 people, and I was not an invited guest speaker. I've also been talking openly about all of the issues mentioned, including gay rights. The point is, gay rights are not the main part of this topic that I'm pushing.
If you're trying to put me in the kind of situation that Hutcherson was put in, then I have as much right to not answer that question as he did. And she didn't just ask him about gay rights in general, she asked him about his specific opinions on gay couples and health care (see post number 95).
Now that I have that out of the way, I would be happy to answer your question. I have several good friends that are gay, several of my girl friends are lesbian/bi, and I also have a friend who is pansexual. I'm very understanding and accepting of their sexuality and their relationships, and I wouldn't want them to be hated because of what they are. However, I don't believe that same-sex marriages should be legal. However, that is not the point of what I’m arguing, so if you want to hear my reasons for my position, you are free to e-mail me at talliec@hotmail.com
Natalie,
I posted this on another thread, but figured I would here as well. As a Mt. Si student myself, it seems to me like you haven't been paying too much attention to what you've been reading and studying at school. As a junior...I know that I've read To Kill a Mockingbird, Animal Farm, Letter to a Birmingham Jail, and Antigone in my LA classes. Each one of these texts urges its readers not to be silent and stand up for their beliefs. This may be the dorkiest thing I've ever typed (and I know Dillon, Goldhammer, McCormick, and Jackson would all be proud)...but Atticus would be ashamed of your unwillingness to support those who take a stand. I garauntee he would have been the one standing up and asking the question. Come on! Natalie, you complain about teachers taking time out of their schedules to discuss this issue and that it upset your friend. What about the gay students at Mount Si who had to sit through that assembly and listen to this man talk about equality when he so openly embodies hatred toward a specific group (and yes, there are gay students at Mount Si). Put your Bible down for a minute and rely on your conscience...if you are the good Christian you say you are, you should have no problem seeing the hypocrisy in your comments and the reason behind McCormick's and Potratz's actions. As a Christian myself, I can only hope that you recognize that Jesus himself was a rabble rouser...speaking his mind, making people angry, and stirring up controversy. I am so sick of people using his name to justify their own close-mindedness.
Natalie,
I meant to say that the first question (about your position on gay rights) was retorical... sorry. I know that you are very eccepting, as we have talked on several occasions and I've taken note of how completely eccepting of people you are. I admire you for that fact, you take people as they are and don't put conditions on others.
I also understand and have noted above that the two situations have major differences.
...and Bill R. it is you're... If you're going to insult me please at least insult me correctly... grow up
You go Trevor. Just got a call from a friend saying you were on here going head-to-head with some people. Natalie is completely off track. Keep it up.
Natalie,
You referred to the Bible for Hutcherson's justification for his hatred. Let's go down that path shall we: The bible says slavery is OK, the bible says you should keep kosher, the bible says all women need to cover their heads, the bible says you should forgive all debt every 7 years, the bible says a whole bunch of really specific stuff that I could use to justify why you--yes you and every other brainwashed Christian--are living your life in sin.
But, I don't because I recognize (as a Christian myself) that I'd rather accept Jesus' message for what it is--a way of living where I openly accept others for who they are. You claimed to have gay friends.....well then, grow a spine and show them you care about their struggle. I am sure Hutcherson's feeling's didn't get hurt. He thrives off of this publicity. In fact, he posted the incident to his website (which it seems, is how it got out to the media). He's loving this. Just another opportunity to weasel his way into making everyone believe his a victim.
J.H.:
I wouldn't BE here if I weren't standing up for something. Just because it's not the thing that you're standing up for doesn't put me in the wrong. Well I'm not being silent, and all that I've said is personally my beleif. My beleif being that it was extremely rude to interrupt the assembly like that.
The funny thing about your comment is that I'm not a Christian, and I never said I was, so I really have no idea where you got that... I really haven't read any of the bible ( I started on Genesis once...) I don't think that religion ought to influence law, and I think if we're bringing this debate to a religious level, then it's downright ridiculous, simply because I'm not religious. I said however, that Hutch was religious, and that his views on gay people were directly from how he must have percieved the tale of (sp?) Sodom and Gomora. I think that's the right story... Anyway,if he had come to our school and started speaking about how gay people were not equal, I would find a problem with that, but he didn't.
Personally, if somebody pro-abortion were to come speak to my school about what a great gift life is, I would find it extremely oxymoronic and hypocritical. However, I wouldn't call him on it in an assembly of 1,400 people, with mixed views on abortion. I would mutter about it later to my friends, because it's really irrelevant.
Again, Joadie read 113. I'm not a Christian, and I don't follow the bible, and I don't know where you guys pulled that from... Yeah, you should read ALL of 113... Because I'm not bible thumping to you guys. In fact, I didn't want for my views on gay rights to get hauled up in the first place, because that's not what I'm really talking about.
Hey, I go to Mount Si too...
Now before you attack me on my opinions about gay rights, I want to say that I've heard both sides, and that I'm torn about what to accept... I mean, gay people are people too, but do theyreally get to do extra stuff??? I don't know. I haven't decided what I think on that yet.
Anyway, I think that it will be hard to keep neutral for much longer, but no matter what I wind up beleiving, I think Natalie is right about McCormick standing up. It was extremely rude, and unprofessional of her, even if it was a bit hypocritical of him...
So yeah. Attack me all you want, that's what I think.
Mt. Si Student @ 115,
What is all this "extra stuff" that you say gay rights activists are talking about? Generally, gay rights activists aren't fighting for extra rights that straight people don't have, they are fighting for the rights that exist for straight people but not for gay and lesbian couples. How would you feel if your relationship with the person you loved wasn’t recognized legally? Personally, I wouldn't give a care to whether the gov. recognizes my love for somebody else... but others might. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't married couples pay a wee bit less in taxes each year... If you are gay or lesbian and the government doesn’t recognize your union, you won't get these incentives. These are just a couple of issues that are being "faught" over.
Being a guy, you are legally allowed to marry a woman. But if you're gay, then it would be an extra right for you to be able to marry a man.I mean, they should be treated just like every other person, but other people don't get to marry someone of their own gender, right?
And thee thing that was mentioned at post 94 said something about it being nt available to most straight couples either, so making it available to all gay couples and such would be going extra.
Anyway, I think you're missing the point. I already told you that I haven't made up my mind on what kinds of gay rights should be available and stuf... my POINT was that whether you are for or against gay rights, and whether youy thought he was hypocritical or not, or whether you think Natalie is a homophobic bigot or not ( I don't think she sounds like one, but I'd like to ask her about her views more...) the point is that I think what McCormick did was rude and unprofessional. And yeah, we did talk about it all day, and it really wasn't fit for math or science classrooms. I can understand CI or history, and MAYBE even LA classes, but the rest had no excuse.
Natalie,
Here's the deal. Hutcherson is not your average, run of the mill Reverend--he is NATIONALLY RECOGNIZED AS A SYMBOL OF HATE toward the gay community. Have you checked your facts on this guy? He's huge--organizes marches, travels to foreign countries, and is associated with Watchman on the Walls (a group that has been linked to denying the validity of the Holocaust!). He promotes hate and prejudice. Why then should McCormick stand by and let this guy speak about equality? It is simply a disservice to Dr. King's message. If your biggest concern is that it was rude and unprofessional, you have a lot to learn. I'm sure McCormick fully recognized that her remarks would come across as shocking...that was the point and she recognized that it would hopefully get people thinking and concerned. You should be wondering why more teachers and students (including me and you and everyone else from MS) didn't do the same.
I guess I just don't really get what you are fighting for here? Politeness? Good behavior? Is speaking up for what you believe in really modeling bad and unprofessional behavior. Last time I checked, teachers were supposed to care about all of their students, not just the straight ones!!!
Remember, there's that famous quote: "Well behaved people never make history."
If MLK himself was well-behaved the civil rights movement probably would have never happened.
If the founders of this country were well behaved, we'd probably still be under British rule
If Rosa Parks was well behaved, African Americans would still be sitting at the back of the bus
If women of the suffrage movement were well behaved you would probably never be able to vote
I think you get where I am going with this. Hutcherson was an entirely inappropriate choice and McCormick broke the rules to point that out. Good for her. Like I said, I'm sure this is exactly what Dr. King would have liked her to do. During the civil rights movement, all kinds of rules were broken by people trying to show support. Again, I have absolutely no idea what the problem with that is.
I'd like to thank Molly Jester for her insightful and thought provoking posts.
I'd like to encourage all readers and posters to carefully re-read what Molly put forth in #97 and some of her earlier posts.
If you disagree with what she has written, ask yourself "why" before allowing a knee-jerk response or flame.
Can you begin to see what she is talking about... take a couple deep breaths and just read it again, slowly, and let yourself relax a bit and open your minds.
These posts are interesting in that they reveal a wealth of strong opinions. Many of the opinions are based on incomplete and even erroneous information or very narrow views.
Don't be scared of the big picture!
Thank you, Kit McCormick, for opening that portal!
Silence = Death
I was post 100, 104. I have been afk for a few hours and just finished reviewing the new posts. I still stand by Natalie. It is unprofessional to attack a public speaker (YES her 'question' is an attack as described in 100) and attacks put people on the spot, especially in the manner which it was given. To quote myself:
"she is setting a bad example for everyone because equality in belief is arguably the same as equality in color and sexuality. She bashed Hutcherson’s beliefs while trying to force her beliefs on people at the same time."
I would like to add that she fights for gay rights, but this outburst didn’t better any relations between gays and straights.
I realize that she wants to be heard, but must she do it during an assembly that is meant to honor MLK Junior? All this did was distract from that.
Hutcherson doesn’t hate homosexuals. He hates homosexuality. It’s important to realize the difference between hating people and hating the acts they commit.
“I do not hate homosexuals. That’s the worst lie that’s ever been told about me. I hate homosexuality because the bible does."
The bible condemns the act of choosing to be homosexual and i believe the bible is relevant to this discussion because Hutcherson’s beliefs are based on the bible.
“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” 1 Corinthians 6:8-10
Homosexuality is a choice, unlike race. People choose to live a homosexual lifestyle, but they don’t choose their race. Homosexuality does not fit in the civil rights movement because the civil rights movement is about characteristics a person hasn’t chosen.
As a former student and asian minority at Mount Si High School, this news is very disturbing and sickiening. Martin Luther King day was a day to
remember the hardships that this whole country has suffered and overcome for the belief in equality among every individual reguardless of race or
gender. To have an bias minister come in and speak at this meanful event is just plain stupid for the school adminitrators.
PUBLIC schools is suppose to be a safe heaven for GSA and to have Hutcherson who is known to be completely against GSA leaves no place for
psotive change but only more struggle and hatred towards anyone not straight. Ms. McCormick did what she believe was right for this event and it
would be completely wrong for her not to say anything and let his hatred continue.
Hutcherson can bullshit all he wants in his own church, but in a public school he has no rights to come in and bullshit to the students that he believes in
equal rights when he surely against it. To the Hutcherson family, please realize what a coward your husband is for even having the guts to come out
and talk completely aganist what Martin Luther King fought for.
And as for Brooke; you should be a shame and don't be calling others who see your wrongs as stupid or "RETARTED",
that only makes you look more pathetic and sad.
As for Ms. McCormick, I completely support what you did because if you had not stand out, this hatred and bullshit will only continue and never be brought
out to the PUBLIC eye. As for the school administerators, shame on you for making a races loser come in to talk about equal rights. Mount Si has high standards
and this is a very wrong decison. But as long as this issue is exposed, maybe there will be more positive that comes out issue than just apologies.
Stop saying speaking out was "unprofessional". That is not what this is or was about. It is about right versus wrong and Hutcherson speaking at the assembly was wrong. Plain and simple. Props to McCormick for speaking out about it, I'm sorry I said anything otherwise earlier.
Please religious parents please keep your comments to yourself because this issue is dealing with equality for everyone and not adam and eve.
Just a heads up: Rev. Hutcherson is organizing an open forum at Mount Si where people supporting/bashing both sides can go and talk about it if they want. I don't know when or where because it hasn't been confirmed yet, but I will defenitely be there.
who is xandy to determine what is right and what is wrong???
im on hutche's side and no i am not religious, green you faggot.
many religious people dont believe in homosexuality, your just going to have to accept that, not tell them they cant vote.
also did anyone else know this is a gay newspaper? im arguing on the wrong website,
Seattle PI(a real newspaper) versus The Stranger(a nobody newspaper)
Trevor,
Don't leave...it is obvious that the school needs more folks like you...more folks willing to take a stand against injustice.
From all of the anti gay rhetoric it looks as tho you might have quite a row to hoe.
I applaud all of the other posts that remind us that not everyone should be invited to talk at a school.
How could the principal not have known what a controversy this would have caused?
Are others supposed to stay silent when they know that someone is vehemently and actively opposed to gays?
It is Hutch's own fault for being so vocal and influential in politics against gays anyway.
We are all God's children.
Shame on any preacher who teaches otherwise...
Mt. Si has no business allowing Mr. Hutcherson to organize ANYTHING on the campus of a public high school. Mr. Hutcherson's national profile as a leader of the effort to legally oppress a group of individuals takes him out of the equation when contemplating a discussion of equal rights on the campus of a public high school.
Mr. Hutcherson has a right to his own beliefs, and he has the right to not be oppressed for those beliefs. However, because he is such an outspoken and nationally recognized proponent of discrimination against gay, lesbian and transgendered citizens, he does not belong anywhere near a discussion about equal rights. He does not belong anywhere near the podium at a public high school. Mr. Hutcherson does not belong anywhere in the planning process for an on-campus event that intents to discuss equality.
Should Mr. Hutcherson wish to offer a discussion of that nature, he should accomplish it within the confines of his personal religious organization.
Kevin S. @ 121,
“I do not hate homosexuals. That’s the worst lie that’s ever been told about me. I hate homosexuality because the bible does."
First of all, the bible cannot hate homosexuals, but the person or people who wrote it can. the bible is a book, it can inspire hatred and bigotry just as it can inspire great benevolent acts, but it cannot itself hate. I do realize that these aer most likely Hutchersons words not yours... just had to get this ot there.
Kevin, what you say about choosing to be homosexual is a very.... wrong. You cannot choose to be homosexual just like you cannot choose to be blond. Now I'm just making the wild assumption that you are straight... Did you choose to live a straight "lifestyle", or was it a choice that you made???
Avery,
Would you be apposed to students and teachers developing an open forum @ school where students could talk about the events of last thursdays MLK assembly?
The discussion as to whether any given religion belief is correct or not is outside the scope of this issue of equal rights. Mr. Hutcherson and his flock may choose what they wish, and base their beliefs on the diety of their choice. If that means that they "hate homosexuality, but not the homosexual," so be it. If their god has ordained that a spiritual union is possible only between a male and a female, then they should personally abide by that guideline.
This, however, should have absolutely no bearing on whether those blessed heterosexual unions enjoy exclusive recognition by local, state or federal law.
The founders of our country made clear the need to separate religious issues from issues of state. That's what is at stake here. Every citizen should be considered equal under the law -- and laws should not find their origins in the tenets of any one religion.
An open forum may be a very good idea Trevor. However, I believe caution should be used in organizing and promoting the event.
I believe a strong, experienced and objective moderator would be necessary. This should not become an argument over the superiority of any given belief system. This SHOULD be a forum to discuss equal rights, and what the concept of freedom from oppression should mean.
Strange stuff in the bible...I would be very wary of following anything but common sense and the love one another stuff...
This is in Genesis...
after some men want to have sex with some other men, Lot offers his two virginal daughters instead
then the daughters take their father and plan this:
32. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
Hello! That is incest!
Bizarre stuff...honestly people...
this judgmentalism is not from Jesus!
I get so tired of people cherry picking the bible to sanctify their hatred.
That is from here
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/lewis/lewun02.htm
(right from the bible!)
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
-Martin Luther King Jr.
To Trevor @129
Yes that is correct, those are Hutcherson's words.
I’m not sure why you think it’s a 'wild assumption' to think I'm straight, but YES I am. YES you can choose to be blonde. You can dye hair. NO I don’t choose to lead a straight lifestyle; I choose NOT to lead a gay lifestyle, just as I would choose not to dye my hair blonde. My beliefs are that people are born straight, but can become homosexual.
As for the Bible thing, yes those are his own words, also his own interpretation of the Bible.
you know what guys? im tired of arguing about gay rights, i think we should all come over and have a huge gay and strait sex party all togeather the gays, bi's and the straits just all come to my house and i will take my pink thong off for all you and you can suck it hard. we all need to get along.... so Trevor, and Kevin you can also come over and i can treat you first.... what do you say?
kevins
Homosexuality is a choice, unlike race. People choose to live a homosexual lifestyle, but they don’t choose their race. Homosexuality does not fit in the civil rights movement because the civil rights movement is about characteristics a person hasn’t chosen.
Homosexuality is a choice? How do you know? Are you gay? How would you know otherwise?
You kids really need some instruction in school. If you can't find it there, try this Internet thing!
Main Entry: civil rights
Function: noun plural
Date: 1658
: the nonpolitical rights of a citizen; especially : the rights of personal liberty guaranteed to United States citizens by the 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution and by acts of Congress
Civil rights are for everyone by definition. Unless you are claiming that gays and lesbians are not human, then you are wrong.
MT Si Parent 138 is spot on and that is the justification im going to stand by, he or she is right, its not oppinion, it is straight fact and thats what we need here, no more political oppinion
MT Si Parent 138 is spot on and that is the justification im going to stand by, he or she is right, its not oppinion, it is straight fact and thats what we need here, no more political oppinion
I love how #133 gets heir info on Christianity from a website called positiveatheism.org
that's pretty funny if you ask me...
Go Ms McCormick! I am very discouraged to see the ignorance posted by some of my fellow Wildcats in regard to the incident. It seems that no degree of education will enlighten you... maybe you should've take Ms McCormick's class, eh?
141...
they quote the bible...do you have a problem with that????
Or now are you saying you are against atheists too.
I, myself, am a closet Christian. The ones who are bigoted have made me embarrassed of my own kind.
Poor Jesus...
he would be so ashamed of this hate monger.
sorry if my posts are poopy and mean...
I just think that hate mongers make it so hard for us to love one another.
Telling us who to hate...who to judge..who shouldn't have healthcare etc
It puts me in a bad mood
Post 127 was not mine.
Just shows what kind of lying idiots I chose to stop arguing with (becaue it's finals week and I had better things to be doing).
I mean... 137... Keyboard slipped...
That's a sure sign that a conversation is degenerating; when people start putting words in your mouth just because they don't like what you say earlier on. Really, that doesn't help your argument... at all. If you want to civilly debate, I'm fine with that, but honestly, that is just really sick. People disgust me sometims. And I'm sure now that I've said that, somebody will use the name "THE REAL Natalie C" later on here, with another thing I didn't say.
Gross.
(You can tell because the faked post doesn't have a period after the capital C)
Natalie
Don't worry...we all know what your message was too before someone started pretending they were you.
it is someone who doesn't give us credit for actually listening to the message which is much like Hutcherson who can somehow ignore the majority of the message in the bible which is
love one another and who can switchi it around to mean...love them but for goodness sakes...don't give them healthcare!
It's sad...because people will agree with that message...and think it came from Jesus
Okay . . . I have heard enough . . . now I must comment
Yes the gay life style is pushing for extra rights.
Natalie C. has it right about certain choices can put you in a class demanding more rights than a neighbor. I also agree with Natalie about a overly PC world.
As for asking people to come and speak at school assemblies:
There is no one person that can come and be the perfect spokesperson on everyone’s views. Wither it be Mr. Hutcherson or Ms. McCormick who stands up to speak.
It is about hearing where someone has been and getting an insight of what they have lived through. It was suppose to be about MLK for MLK day. Mr. Hutcherson was there to speak out that. Yes Ms. McCormick knew about it, it was not a secret.
I think the school should be able to pick who they want to speak for a subject if the speaker has background in that subject. Whomever it be.
The comment made by Molly Jester: ‘If someone encouraged others to demean you and try to make sure you were not treated equally would you be outraged?’ well of course you would be upset. It happens to all for any and all reasons. My family has been through a lot in the name of christiananity. We have been sued, name called, ignored, laughed at, and hated. We can be mad at the world or we can try to understand it and get on with our life.
Allowing a speaker who may be incredibly offensive to some will always happen.
Weather it is for Gay Rights or against it. The question is: how do they treat the person when they are face to face? With respect? We all have a choice of how we want to live . . . this is America. Choice of hair color, pierce or not pierce, boyfriend / girlfriend, what state you want to live in, and belief, etc. Can we still be pleasant when we are supposed to be an example in front of each other? Can a teacher be a good teacher if they are gay or not gay? If they teach the subject in which they were hired for and not for their own agenda – then yes they are a good teacher.
Dear Trevor, Asking Molly on the site is fine. But if you bring it up at a meeting about “landlord and tenant laws” in a crowd it would be inappropriate. Don’t you think?
If the assembly was about Mr. Hutcherson and everything that he believes in then it would be okay to ask. The assembly was about MLK and Mr. Hutcherson talked only about when he was a boy and about what MLK was like.
We all want to justify our opinions and bend others to our thinking.
Freedom of choice needs to be a choice. Everyone has something interesting to say if they have knowledge in that subject and even though we do not all make the same choices in our lives.
For those who did not want to hear the speaker could have left ~ end of story.
#150
I disagree with your last statement.
100%
The students at that school (myself being one of them) were part of a Captive Audience.
If we left, we would be given a detention. Or something to that effect. We are required by law, to go to school every day and thus we were REQUIRED to attend that assembly.
So, no, we could not have left.
-Leigh
"You won't let me marry my brother so you are depriving me of my rights. You won't let me marry someone else while I am still married so you are depriving me of my rights. You say I shouldn't have sex with a ten-year old. You are depriving me of my rights. How dare you. You are a hate-monger for saying that."
"You won't let me marry my brother so you are depriving me of my rights. You won't let me marry someone else while I am still married so you are depriving me of my rights. You say I shouldn't have sex with a ten-year old. You are depriving me of my rights. How dare you. You are a hate-monger for saying that."
What Mrs. McCormick and the other gsa members did in that assembly was inappropriate and very disrespecting to ken Hutcherson, because when you invite someone to your school to give a speech about race, no matter how much you hate him you should still show respect and if you really don’t like him then don’t clap, it was very rude how some people booed him and yelled at him, I personally felt it was a very good assembly and liked the speaker. I was there and witnessed the whole thing. We were having an assembly about racism not about sex, there is no relation to people who are gay and people who are of a different race, and I personally felt like the gsa were calling Martin Luther King gay. There should not be a gsa in our schools, if schools allow a gsa they should offer other support groups for people who are alcoholics or addicted to drugs, and all sorts of other problems. There are no support groups for AA, NA, OEA, at our school. Why should a gsa be allowed at school. I don’t know. Also if they say there are a lot of similarities between race and sexuality they should have an assembly with a gay person and have him talk. If that happened I would walk out and not attend because I don’t agree, and that is what the gsa group should have done instead of causing a lot of drama, it was there choice to attend and if they had that much of a problem they should have not showed up and disrespected a public speaker. Also people of a different race do not have a choice of what race they are, they are born that way. It is a persons choice to be gay, they are not born that way.
Is it a persons choice to be born with both sets of genitalia?
Hermaphrodites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
or to have messed up numbers of chromosomes?
Intersexuals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex
Please don't judge other people...
please
please
please
love one another as God loved us
Feel lucky that you are who you are but don't blame someone for something that they have no control over
Besides...heterosexuals can do some pretty un holy things in their bedrooms ...
There is something wrong with you if you care that much about what goes on in other people's bedrooms
Do you look at Pastor Hutcherson and imagine him in bed with his wife?
I am hoping the answer is no...
A non gay mshs student | January 22, 2008 7:01 PM
What Mrs. McCormick and the other gsa members did in that assembly was inappropriate and very disrespecting to ken Hutcherson, because when you invite someone to your school to give a speech about race, no matter how much you hate him you should still show respect and if you really don’t like him then don’t clap, it was very rude how some people booed him and yelled at him, I personally felt it was a very good assembly and liked the speaker.
So if OJ simpson was invited for the same event, it would be appropriate for him to lecture about civil rights as long as he didn't bring up murder, kidnapping or obstruction of justice?
Also people of a different race do not have a choice of what race they are, they are born that way. It is a persons choice to be gay, they are not born that way.
You say you are not gay. So how would you know it was a choice if you are not gay yourself? Do you claim to understand the physiology and psychology of gay men?
What sexual orientation would you demand of a hermaphrodite?
Your comments are rooted in the indoctrinated bigotry you have been subjected to, and I blame your parents.
Allow me to share a quote with you I that shared earlier with your cult mate Brooke.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. "
~Abraham Lincoln
Dear non gay student...
If I go to a meeting and hope to learn about the affects of discrimination...I would hope it would not be taught by someone who is well known for discriminating.
MLK was soooo cool...he loved everyone..had a staffer who was gay.
MLK's widow fought for Gay Rights.
I think MLK would not appreciate Hutcherson acting as tho he is an authority.
If you fill your heart with love...you won't have time to discriminate against anyone...
You will be out and about doing good...not spreading hate
I agree with the kid above me SEXUAL PREFERENCE SHOULD NOT BE BROUGHT INTO THE LEARNING SOCIETY. it only brings confusing and hateful discussion amongst students that are affected by this matter what i experienced at the DEDICATION for Martin Luther King Jr was disrespect for a person showing his experiences with racial discrimination. Not once during Hutchinson's speech was SEXUAL ORIENTATION ever discussed or even mentioned. After a respectful speech was announced in commemoration to MLK Jr. death and Hutchinson took his seat an then a disrespectful action from the leader of the GSA and a supporter of the GSA was clearly shown throughout the applauds of the students. one teacher "booed" his speech of dedication. while after the cheering another mentioned the GSA in promotion to MLK's "MAIN IDEA OF EQUALITY" which in fact wasnt even the point of the assembly. The point is the Assembly was to remember a person who fought for equal rights amongst all not to have hutchinson mention the GSA in his speech.
in order to fix these words the GSA should Disband because it is causing a RUDE disruption and setting a bad example to all rightful meanings to the word EQUALITY
if u support the GSA's actions on this case then u urself are a degrading lump of .... u get the point
To the parent in post 156:
That is a Mark Twain quote, not an Lincoln quote. :)
"We were having an assembly about racism not about sex"
Very true there. MLK's widow might have fought for gay people, and that's all very fine and dandy, but Hutcherson knows very well that his views on gay people are controversial. That's why he didn't bring them up. Hutcherson is obviously NOT MLK, and he wasn't trying to say he was. MLK inspired part of what he is today, but not all of what he is.
Hi point was that he didn't like MLK until he (Hutcherson) realized that hurting wasn't the way to acheive equality. If you were there, focussing on his words, that would have been quite clear.
So it is okay to be hypocritical in your life and no one is supposed to point it out?
He brings the controversy with him wherever he goes...
He is very actively against gays...he isn't just quiet about it...
He said he would organize a national protest of Microsoft if they kept supporting the anti discrimination bill!
Like someone else said...
it would be okay if they invited OJ Simpson to come speak?
Well why not???...the subject wasn't supposed to be murder!
Goodness sakes...you people really do want to be hateful...
Oh my gosh...I just went to his Wiki site and apparently he didn't want a Hate Crime Law to include crimes against Gays and Lesbians!
He would rather protect someone performing a hate crime than someone who isn't hurting anyone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Hutcherson
I wouldnt mind OJ Simpson to speak at my school as long as he only talked about black civil rights, and remember he was innocent...
"Ken Hutcherson strongly objects to suggestions that the current gay civil rights movement bears a resemblance to the African-American civil rights movement in the 1960s"
it says there he is against gay people comparing the two...
If he gets let out of prison long enough (lol) and he wants to speak about the struggles of civil rights, and maybe playing football as a black guy, and wants to give an inspirational speech like that, hey, why not?
Getting out of jail to do that might be a bit hard though...
I mean, he's not telling us how to kill people and steal stuff that supposedly belongs you you and stuff like that...
But really, it's not as if Hutcherson has gone to jail.
But, I beleive somebody else on here said what I kind of want to say better than me:
"Personally, if somebody pro-abortion were to come speak to my school about what a great gift life is, I would find it extremely oxymoronic and hypocritical. However, I wouldn't call him on it in an assembly of 1,400 people, with mixed views on abortion. I would mutter about it later to my friends, because it's really irrelevant." - Post 113, Natalie C.
So yeah... That's what I'd have to say about that.
FROM: Washington Models for the Evaluation of Bias Content in Instructional Materials
Washington State Superintendent of Public Instruction
Guidelines for Identifying Bias
As we discover how to better teach and apply the principle of equity in our
schools, we are learning the importance of perspective in points of view and the
need to reflect the participation and the contribution of the various cultures and
both genders in our curricula. It means a move toward respecting and appreciating differences and understanding how they contribute to the
desirability of the whole. The diversity of race, custom, color, religion, age, physical make-up and lifestyle are positive and essential characteristics of our nation and its heritage.
The schools, of course, play a highly significant role in promoting or negating these points of view. The curriculum by which students learn shares this role with the teacher and other school staff. Attitudes expressed or modeled in materials, as well as by people, work against the development of the appreciation of diverse groups if they relegate groups of people to secondary or inferior status. A curriculum may perpetuate these attitudes and the behaviors they cause if it omits the history, contributions and lifestyles of a group; if it demeans a group by using patronizing language; or if it portrays a group in stereotyped roles with less than a full range of human interests, traits and capabilities.
I think Randy Taylor forgot to read the manual.
I find it so disturbing the way these kids are defending the decision to have him speak.
Saying they wouldn't mind if OJ came to speak.
He was innocent?
He was found guilty in the civil trial and apparently he laid out his plan in his own book.
I think all administrators have read the manual..I think that Randy Taylor...like these kids...thinks he is above it.
And he has decided to take impressionable young folk along with him...above everything ...even to the point of welcoming murderers to school
Mr. Joel Aune
Superintendent
Snoqualmie Valley Public Schools
PO Box 400
Snoqualmie, WA 98065
January 21, 2008 (Martin Luther King Day)
Re: Ken Hutcherson, MLK, and Washington State Law
As the parents of current Mt. Si students, we’re not sure what worries us more, the administration’s insulting choice for a human rights speaker or your district’s poor reaction to the inevitable outcry. We are forever grateful for the courage of Ms. McCormick and the coverage of the local media; otherwise we would have never realized the nature and depth of this problem.
As I understand it, this is not the first time Mt. Si has dealt with this man or this issue. According to blog reports from teachers and students, Mr. Hutcherson was invited to address your students three years ago. Even then, a number of concerned folks raised concern. Now that we know this, you can’t blame us for fearing that someone high in your district has a secret agenda.
As you well know, Mr. Hutcherson is not famous for playing football, growing up African American, or preaching Christianity. No, he’s world famous for his militant stance against all homosexuals. Much of his “Christian preaching” uses twisted, violent imagery, equivocating homosexuals with society’s worst criminals:
“My idea here is to drop a spiritual bomb on D.C, like Spain, where they had the terrorist bomb.”
“I'm lovingly aggressive, [with gays] the same I'd be for a murderer or an adulterer.”
But that’s nothing. He also founded the anti gay extremist group Watchman on the Walls. He did so together with Holocaust Revisionist Scott Lively, the guy who wrote The Pink Swastika. In that book, Lively not only claims Hitler was gay, he preaches that the Nazis and WWII were the product of a vast gay conspiracy. As one book review states, the author claims that:
“because "sodomy" was a crime in Germany and many other countries both before and after the rise of the Nazi regime, it's perfectly acceptable that homosexuals were placed in concentration camps during the days of the 3rd Reich. By that reckoning, people today shouldn't be upset about slavery in Colonial America, because it was "legal" at that time. The authors point out that there was never a directive to murder all homosexuals in Germany, as there was against Jews. This is true, but, as they admit, homosexuals were killed in the camps, and through violent attacks on the outside. Yes, the number of gays killed by Nazis was miniscule compared to the number of Jews murdered, but so what? Does that mean no one can talk about it, or that we should pretend it never happened? Discussing the topic of Nazi homophobia in no way lessens anyone's respect for what Jews, political dissidents, Catholics, Romany, degenerate artists, etc., suffered under the 3rd Reich, unless you're hysterically homophobic, as these authors appear to be.
So despite all of this, the district tagged Hutcherson to speak again and once again, a few brave souls spoke out. This time however, the media caught wind. On January 18, 2008, the administration issued their first “apology” not to the parents or the students but to Mr. Hutcherson who, according to your administration, should never have been questioned in a public forum celebrating civil disobedience and civil rights. Then came your second apology to the parents, that informed us that Hutcherson came to speak on “MLK” and “racism” but purposely failed to tell us the nature of his “separate issue” which caused all the controversy.
For now, it appears that Mr. Hutcherson and the administration see eye to eye on their criticism of Ms. McCormick. According to the district, the main issue and main lesson here is assembly decorum, not human rights. That must be so because asking Hutcherson an honest question is much more destructive to MLK’s message than using a violent homophobe to deliver it. Even now, after Ms. McCormick has called him on the carpet, your damage control claims that Hutcherson was still a perfectly acceptable method to “stimulate discussion.”
I think it’s the district’s mission statement that claims your administration seeks to “foster acceptance, appreciation and respect for…the cultural and ethnic diversity of our community” and to “promote understanding and appreciation of the rights, duties, privileges and responsibilities in an ever changing world.”
Our legislature couldn’t agree more and recently passed amendments to RCW 49.60.010 which makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. So what message do you send our children and their parents when you give this man a school podium for any subject let alone human rights? Is it that difficult to find an admirable leader to speak about MLK? True, Hutcherson has a perfect right to his religious beliefs, but a public school has absolutely no right to promote it.
Since it was his day after all, it’s only fair we let MLK and his family have the final word on this subject. As many people are discussing on and off line, the ultimate irony here is that Coretta Scott King has spoken out repeatedly comparing the fight against gay discrimination to her husband’s grand struggle. “Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people [and] to deny their humanity.”
In the end, your parents letter, encourages us to “discuss these issues with [our] children.” We found that a little challenging since your letter failed to tell us what Hutcherson’s “separate issues” actually were. Moreover, since it was your district not the parents that placed Hutcherson on a school podium and pedestal, it is your district that should now devote formal student time to a discussion of gay discrimination and how it fares under Hutcherson’s views, Washington law, and international human rights. Finally, we also request the district issue Ms. McCormick a formal apology for making her the scapegoat.
Concerned and Disappointed Parents
To Mt Si Parent (167):
What a piece of crock. You are simply bigoted against anyone who disagrees with you.
Hutcherson was a perfect representative to speak to student for this occasion. The teacher was way out of line and should be suspended.
Why is it that those, like yourself, who supposedly preach tolerance, are the least tolerant folks in our society. When you write, "Much of his “Christian preaching” uses twisted, violent imagery, equivocating homosexuals with society’s worst criminals:", you are simply showing us that you really don't know this man or what he is about. You are listening to the real haters.
Hutch, and his supporters, can carry on civil conversations with those who disagree with him. The opposite is not true.
I totally agree with Mount Si Parent...
He is not only intolerant but uses his position as a Pastor to spread his bigotry.
That intolerance of intolerance line doesn't work in this situation.
There is nothing that can be civil about actively
spreading hate in Jesus' name.
I think that is what bothers me most of all.
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
That was from another pastor:
Pastor Martin Niemöller
168. It's OK to hate hate. That's why criminal & civil rights laws exist. You call me a bigot for crticizing a man I don't really "know" then you turn around and do the same to me. But I'm not as "famous" as Hutch, so I have a lot more data to work with than you.
Thank you for posting (167) your eloquent letter to the Superintendent.
Is there any other place where you and others are discussing this?
Several folks, including myself, are disheartened by the way this matter was covered in our local paper, the Record.
We also feel that if there is a follow up forum, that the public school system not provide the platform for Hutcherson.
Well pretty much i am black and i am very offended by the actions of the gay straight alliance club, for showing disrespectful behavior towards a dedication of someones life whom is both for racial and sexual equality
The fact is who cares who the speaker was its what he was talking about
so get yo heads outa your ***'s and deal with problems in the future not the past.
Feel free to comment on this new blog. E-Mail MtSiParents@gmail.com if you want more access.
[i]I [/i] care what a speaker is talking about. I also care if they are hypocrites...
I think it is horrible when we parade people in front of our children as heroes when they actively judge and try to legislate against other members of our community.
It is perfectly okay to have this debate...otherwise children might believe that they are never to question authority.
Look at Abu Ghraib
look at the Stanford Prison experiment...
people can let their feelings of superiority run away with them if they are not careful and I sure don't want my kids exposed to this kind of superiority.
especially when it is portrayed as tho it is coming from God!
You have to look at the whole person to see if they are worthy of teaching anything to our kids.
If they are a judgmental bigot I want to make sure I am there to point out the hypocrisy.
I don't want to raise a hypocrite!
Hey I am a student at Mt.Si High school, I belive that Equalty stands for everyone and everything...and since the assembley was built around equalty (according to the ASB) I think Ms.Mccormic had perfect right to say what she said...GO her...for free speech
I go to mt si as well. I have read alot of the comments on this page and I guess I am just astounded. I really don't want to discuss what side I take on this issue because I believe both sides have good arguements but what really makes me sad is things like this page. How did this whole thing get started? It was because of an assembly suppose to honor Martin Luther King. Some of the comments of hate, arguement, and ridicule on this page is just saddening. I mean what are the comments you put on here really going to do? You know everytime you voice your opinion someone will have a come back, because everyone HAS THEIR OWN OPINION. Heck I am fully aware that once I post this about 20 people will have some hateful thing to say. Alot of controversy has come from this and it is truely sad. All you people who think about further posting should at least consider this... What will come from this continuing? People will continually fight no matter what. Stop hating on each other and think about why this all began. Dr. Martin Luther King wanted everyone to be treated equal and everyone should. Should Hutch have spoken? I don't know. But he did. Should Mrs. Mccormick speak out in the manner that she did? I don't know. But she did. It makes me sick that one of my fellow students would call the GSA "retarded" or I guess "retarted" as she put it. Or that a parent is immature enough to call out students on their personal beliefs to join the GSA. One thing I learned from this is people have a right to their own opinion, what matters is what they do with it. So go ahead find every mistake I have made or every spelling error in this paragraph. Make yourself look even worse. Even you want something to change in this world, or even in this community, treat people with respect no matter what sexuality, race or gender, even if that person has done something that in your mind you find wrong. Do it like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. would have wanted and what he taught this country to do. Be the better person, move on, grow up,and learn from this. So stop gossiping, ridiculing, and hurting others on this page.
To Student 178:
:)
Betwixt all the arguments, that is the smartest thing that has been said this entire time.
The issue at mount si isn't really our guest speaker, or even what was said anymore. It's nt really even about racial equality vs. gay rights anymore.
Back at the school, all we're doing is tearing each other up.
If I go to school and do nothing but make enemies while trying to make them see things my way, then that's not a healthy learning environment, especially if I know I'll only be attacked in the same way, by somebody else with a different opinion.
Sure, standing up is good. But will a message board make that much difference?
Most of us students can't vote anyway. It's not as if we can sway anyone, we just all want to be right. Everybody wants to be right.
Thank you student 178.
BUT WAIT!
Let's take a look at Hutcherson's justification in oppressing homosexuals. Let page through the Book of Leviticus and Exodus to see if we can find what the heck he is talking about...
Leviticus 11:7-8
7: And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
8: Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.
This is GOD's LAW?
OMG! Ken Hutcherson has committed an abomination to God by playing football in which he handled the carcass of swine!
The BIBLE says football is an abomination!
And doubleplusbad he did it on the Sabbath!
Exodus 20:10
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
...
Huh? This sounds silly?
How about Leviticus 11:10-12
10: And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12: Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.
Does the good Reverend spend as much time preaching against Red Lobster and Ivars? It is an abomination!
...
Nah, that's really silly!
How about Leviticus 19:27-28
27: Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
28: Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
Now what are the chances that Kenny has a tatoo and has shaved in the past?
It's obvious we need a Constitutional ammendment to outlaw sinful shaving and body art!
And if you think that's crazy, how about Leviticus 18:22 which is the single passage that condemns homosexuals in the eyes of the Christians that fail to understand the message of Jesus;
22:You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.
An "abomination"? Like football and making clam dip on Sunday while watching the game!
But yay! Beware you don't watch the game wearing a cotton and wool blend!
Leviticus 19:19
19: Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
Bottom line.
This is The United States of America and the law of the land is the Constitution.
This is not some third world theocracy ruled by an ancient document that would have 99% of christians burning in some hell they've conjured up.
If you claim Leviticus is your law because it's in the bible, then you have little or no justification in ignoring the vast majority of the text which you claim to be the statutes of the LORD your God!
If you can't see the hypocrisy in this, I can only concede that you do not possess the mental faculties necessary for rational thought. I pity you as much as I fear you.
Randy Taylor claims he has a document signed by a GSA representative agreeing with the choice to use Hutcherson as the MLK Assembly guest speaker. Is this true?
181-
The teacher who is the adviser to the GSA says she did not know Hutcherson was coming. Perhaps Taylor had a student sign the paper... any member of the GSA could be seen as a "representative" of the club.
Until Taylor produces that signed document, it's entirely theoretical.
Your all a bunch of fucking RETARDS ANYONE WHO LIKES IT IN THE ASS IS FUCKING WIERD. THEY ARE ALIENS AND SHOULD BE SHOT. GAYS ARENT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
Your all a bunch of fucking RETARDS ANYONE WHO LIKES IT IN THE ASS IS FUCKING WIERD. THEY ARE ALIENS AND SHOULD BE SHOT. GAYS ARENT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
Your all a bunch of fucking RETARDS ANYONE WHO LIKES IT IN THE ASS IS FUCKING WIERD. THEY ARE ALIENS AND SHOULD BE SHOT. GAYS ARENT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
Your all a bunch of fucking RETARDS ANYONE WHO LIKES IT IN THE ASS IS FUCKING WIERD. THEY ARE ALIENS AND SHOULD BE SHOT. GAYS ARENT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
Your all a bunch of fucking RETARDS ANYONE WHO LIKES IT IN THE ASS IS FUCKING WIERD. THEY ARE ALIENS AND SHOULD BE SHOT. GAYS ARENT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
Your all a bunch of fucking RETARDS ANYONE WHO LIKES IT IN THE ASS IS FUCKING WIERD. THEY ARE ALIENS AND SHOULD BE SHOT. GAYS ARENT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
Your all a bunch of fucking RETARDS ANYONE WHO LIKES IT IN THE ASS IS FUCKING WIERD. THEY ARE ALIENS AND SHOULD BE SHOT. GAYS ARENT PEOPLE!!!!!!!!
ANDREW IS RIGHT!! GAYS ARE FUCKING LOSERS.
ANDREW IS RIGHT!! GAYS ARE FUCKING LOSERS.
ANDREW IS RIGHT!! GAYS ARE FUCKING LOSERS.
ANDREW IS RIGHT!! GAYS ARE FUCKING LOSERS.
And some of you wonder why this is such an important thing to stand up against.
Religion has no place in our schools or in our laws.
If we keep going down this road will will be like any other religious fundamentalist nation.
Do you know what they do to criminals in Saudi Arabia?
Pretty soon no one will even get a fair trial.
Bush doesn't seem to care as long and he and his buddies can keep oil trickling in from over there. Of course at a huge profit to his buddies.
Andrew...I hate to tell you this but many heterosexual couples have 'that kind' of sex.
Does it hurt you personally?
Do you imagine every couple you meet in bed with each other.
I am so sorry for you. You have such hate in you. It's origin can't be from something that has nothing to do with you.
Are you fighting homosexual tendencies yourself.
This is another phenomenon that society has placed on gays and lesbians by not allowing them to be who they are.
Dear Student at 178. I am sorry that this posting is causing you any stress.
Please think about the people who live with this stress day in and day out. Unable to be who they truly are because Pastors like Hutcherson would have them hiding in corners.
Hutcherson who doesn't think that gays should be protected from hate crimes.
You can turn this into something really good.
It is within all of us to make a difference in this world...do we do it by spreading hate or by letting gays and lesbians know that we think that they should have rights just like everyone else.
"Be not intimidated...nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice."
-- John Adams (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President
"Its difficult in times like these: ideals, dreams and cherished hopes rise within us, only to be crushed by grim reality. It's a wonder I haven't abandoned all my ideals, they seem so absurd and impractical. Yet I cling to them because I still believe, in spite of everything people are truly good at heart."
That was Anne Frank
To parent 180:
I spoke early as the student who wrote 178. The things you said in your comment are exactly what I am talking about. Can you just not accept the fact that Hutch spoke? He did, and you cannot go back in time and change that. Sitting there and trying to figure out ways to why he was not justified in what he said is just stupid. All you are doing is carrying this out longer than it needs to be. Don't "BUT WAIT, look what I found"...and come up with some bible verses that you believe are ridiculous. Have you thought that some people actually do live by those bible verses? Kids that your son or daughter goes to school with? How do you think your words makes them feel. People have different opinions about this matter, just as must as they believe in different religons. You take offense to what Hutch believes about the GSA an gay rights, but are you not being totally hypocritical when you slam his religon like that? I think you need to grow up and and instead of looking into this and posting your strong opionions on the internet, maybe you should spend your time sitting down with your son or daughter and asking them how they feel. It makes no sense to cause more problems by trying to put down Pastor Hutch or his religon and making a fool of yourself, by being offended about how he feels towards gay rights, when you just slammed christianity. For all of us students stop this please, you make it alot worse for us all, and you are the parents.
Student 178
Can you just not accept the fact that Hutch spoke? He did, and you cannot go back in time and change that.
I accept this fact and want to make sure it does NOT happen again, hence the reason parents, students and the community is clamoring for action. At the least, reassurance that nationally known bigots and hate mongers will NOT be invited to speak to our children.
"...and come up with some bible verses that you believe are ridiculous. Have you thought that some people actually do live by those bible verses? Kids that your son or daughter goes to school with? How do you think your words makes them feel. People have different opinions about this matter, just as must as they believe in different religons. You take offense to what Hutch believes about the GSA an gay rights, but are you not being totally hypocritical when you slam his religon like that?
Some people do live by these verses, they are called orthodox Jews. Funny thing is they don't lobby the federal government trying to outlaw homosexuality, shrimp and football.
This is not slamming religion, it is Hutch and his ilk that have played the bible card to justify their oppression of a minority group. If you are going to play the bible card, then don't be shocked when the rest of the deck is laid on the table to illustrate your hypocrisy!
If I wanted to "bash" christianity I would refer to a bunch of delusional individuals that have accepted their childhood indoctrination or other form of brain washing later in life to justify their lack of ability in cognitive reasoning.
But I'm not doing that, I am illustrating the hypocrisy by exposing the rest of your deck!
Injustice cannot be addressed by the see no evil, speak no evil and hear no evil philosophy you seem intent on embracing.
I certainly don't expect you to understand this concept based on your previous posts, but here's hoping!
For all of us students stop this please, you make it alot worse for us all, and you are the parents.
Fortunately you seem to be the minority in this case. Every student I know from Mt Si wants this issue resolved rather than ignored, my two students included!
Stop reading if you are offended.
Mount si is not a bad school. Most of the students aren't either but the news and rumors are making it sound like a horrible place. I don't mind the school one bit. Some teachers may be a little crazy *COUGH*COUGH*potratz*COUGH* but hey... thats life. Don't stereotype the students from MT. Si. Please. Go on standing up for whatever opinions u have on Hutch. You have the right.
Just want to encourage the person who commented on #61 to please try, and yes it's hard, to not group people into one catagory. It's easy when you don't personally know someone. For example, you mentioned Christians. Well, sorry we don't live up to everyone's standards. There are those who say with their words that they are christian but don't show it in their actions.But there are alot of us who really try to love and respect others,no matter what, because they belong to the human race and God created them. There are alot of us Christians who can disagree with someone's choice of lifestyle and still love and respect them. Hey, my uncle was gay,he new we didn't agree with his choice, but he knew we loved him very much and he loved us very much. Sad to say he died from the aids virus. I miss him very much. I'm also sad that your friend actually said she wouldn't be your friend if you told her you were gay. It would be shocking to her and would have to work through some feelings but would continue to be your friend,I hope. (I know saying "what if I was gay" was just an example) There does come a time where we have to "agree to disagree" and the gays and lesbians have to realize that no matter how much education they offer, or verbal bashing they throw out there, there will always be people who disagree with their lifestyle choice. So many people say we are intolerant. There are people who are totally intolerant of us. A friend of mine said that it's looking like the Christians are being shoved into the closet while the gays and lesbians are coming out. The "bashing "has to stop somewhere, so where is it going to start? Please don't twist my words and take what I've said wrong. Since you don't know me,it would be very easy to do.
Who is shoving christians into a closet???
No one...
I would like it if bigots would keep their ideas and laws off of my body and the bodies of my friends.
I am also a Christian and I don't like the way Hutch uses my religion and the things I believe in, like Christ, in this hateful way.
All of us our gods children and I think he would want all of us to have the same rights.
He can not be happy about people trying to squash human rights in HIS name.
Jesus was not like that!
He really wasn't.
Is that hard to understand.
When a person of another religion stands up against one of their leaders because they take their verses too literally, I think you would praise them.
Every religion has it's bizarre zealots who abuse their power.
People have to speak up!
Nothing to be embarrassed about.
Nothing to shame us about...I could see if this was a really ugly argument but the only ugliness seems to be from people standing up for Hutch and against gay people.
If Hutch is preaching the Bible literally, then , as pointed out, there is a lot of stuff that he is not preaching
Who gave him the right to cherry pick the bible for what he likes or doesn't like????
I can't change what the Bible says about homosexuality being wrong. It says it plain as day. There are some things in the Bible you don't take literally but some things you do. All you have to do is study up on this and ask questions. Do you read your Bible? Do you have someone, A pastor, who can help you understand what to take literally or not? Do you want to know the truth? I challenge you to look homosexuality up in the Bible and read things for yourself,In context. Please, don't go by what other people say,find out the truth for yourself.
Dear parent of high schooler,
How can someone choose what should be taken literally and what shouldn't?
Jesus taught love and that is all I need to know.
I don't want someone human telling me that I am supposed to try and make it so that certain people who walk the earth with me can't get healthcare or other benefits because of who they are.
We need to love one another and not be so judgmental.
No throwing stones etc
If someone is actually hurting someone than yes...we can give them a fair trial and send them off to prison.
The Bible also says Thou shalt not kill but look at what our government does in our name,
wars, capitol punishment
I speak to what jesus would say about that too...
No, he would say...love one another...put a murderer in jail if you have to keep others safe but Thou shalt not kill is pretty darn clear.
I don't understand the cherry picking, no matter WHO tells me to do it. If that cherry picking tells us to be critical of a group of people that are not harming anyone...something is wrong!
I think there are other good things we can be doing for our society than trying to make gay citezens outsiders to our society. We could be protesting all wars, protesting Capital Punishment, fighting against world hunger, helping foster parents,
How does Hutch spend his time...???
trying to make it so if someone hates gays and hurts them that that won't be considered a hate crime.
threatening Microsoft with a national boycott if they don't drop support of a bill that gives rights to gay people that other people already have.
Come on...
please be for real with me on this
Jesus would NEVER approve!
Yes, the Bible says not to kill. You name wars and capitol punishment, don't forget abortion.
Oh, but some people don't include this one. I'm not pointing my finger at you on this one, I'm just making a general statement. I'm just trying to show that people will twist the truth to accomplish their own agenda. It's sad that people actually hate others who are different from them. Hate is a very strong word. Yes, we are to love one another. We are to love our neighbor as ourselves, but the Bible talks alot about hate. Here are a few... To fear the Lord is to hate evil (Proverbs 8:13), The righteous hate what is false(Proverbs 13:5), there is a ton of verses, but most of them point toward hating actions or attitudes.(the sin not the sinner) And one of the reasons why we say homosexuality is wrong is because of this 'Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Niether the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor homosexual offenders not thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justifed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.(1 Corinthians6:9-11) Flee form sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. I don't know what is so difficult to understand. If you really want to know the truth you need to want to know it. The Bible is plain and simple about sin. We all sin, we all need forgiveness and grace.Not one of us is any better than any- one else. The trouble starts when we are taught that "whatever makes you feel good do it" "Whatever feels right to you thats ok, it's just not right for me". This is a bunch of lies that have seared our conscience. But even in saying all this, people will get angry and refuse to truly search out the truth because it will tell them that they are wrong and thay don't want to be wrong. Yes people keep saying "Jesus would never approve of this, We are to love each other, Jesus is love" this is true but if people want the real truth they would accept the truth as a whole not just part of it. God loves you and all who have been talking on the website.He wants to have a personal relationship with you, he created you to do awsome things for Him but that is hard to see through the lies that have been dealt for so long. May God pierce through the darkness so that His light of truth and love shines bright in all of our hearts.
"but if people want the real truth they would accept the truth as a whole not just part of it"
That is exactly what I am saying. Do you know of any churches where they take the bible as a whole and not just a part of it?
God is piercing through the darkness with people who mind their own business about stuff that doesn't hurt anyone.
He also pierces through the darkenss by creating people who stand up for what is truly right.
The teacher spoke up because what Hutcherson does to influence people against gays...really hurts them.
Standing up is what would have made Jesus very proud.
Christianity
All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 7:1
Confucianism
Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.
Analects 12:2
Buddhism
Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
Udana-Varga 5,1
Hinduism
This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
Mahabharata 5,1517
Islam
No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
Sunnah
Judaism
What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
Talmud, Shabbat 3id
Taoism
Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.
Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien
Zoroastrianism
That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.
Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5
MATTHEW 7:15-23
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Exactly! Thank you for the scripture references. There are churches that take scripture as a whole but there are those that do not. This would be known as false teaching. Just because we disagree with the sin doesn't mean we all hate the person choosing to do so. If you can show me where it says that homosexuality is ok in the Bible then my view will change. Do you know why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed? Sin is sin no matter the justification of it. Yes Jesus loved people but he also told the woman caught in adultry to go and sin no more. He didn't make excuses for it.
If you show me in the Bible where killing is okay I would appreciate that.
Otherwise, why isn't the Hutch the biggest anti war protestor around instead of him concentrating on what goes on in people's bedrooms?
Does he tell his hetero followers who commit sodomy that they should not recieve the same rights as hetero couples that do not commit sodomy?
Adultery does hurt someone.
So of course that is a sin.
Killing does hurt someone so of course that is a sin.
Stealing hurts someone so of course that is a sin.
Should Hutch go to jail because he is trying to steal rights from people that God has planted on this earth???
Is eating Pork a sin?
In the bible it is.
Is it okay for daughters to lay down with their father (Lot) a sin?
In the bible it isn't a sin!
If Hutch doesn't take all of the scriptures...is that a sin???
Ddi Jesus tell the people in the town to shun the adultress and to not allow her to get healthcare? Did he tell everyone that they should not allow her any more rights as a married woman?
see also:
parent of high schooler,
What you say is wrong. Ask any true scholar of the bible and they will answer honestly that the bible is, at the very least, inconclusive on the matter of homosexuality. It's not mentioned in the ten commandments and Jesus never says a word. The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah is referenced throughout the bible not as homosexuality but as inhospitality (in the form of gang rape and turning out strangers in need). What is a homosexual offender? Did you know that in other translations the word homosexual never even appears? Before you go deciding that you know what the bible says you would be wise to read it.
Holy fucking bitch fest! :) Entertaining, to say the least.
Maturity is a lovely thing. Wish there was more of it.
And now I will demonstrate my own lack of such:
Fuck the intolerant dumbasses with no regard to the basic, fundamental idea that: WE ARE FUCKING PEOPLE, for "CHRIST"s SAKE! How can you possibly be judgemental of a.) someone's sexual preferences b.) someone's guts to stand up and call out a hypocritical piece of shit?
Get your goddamn brains out of the goddamn bible and look around for a few seconds. Life (wait, no- reality) may make more sense to you.
I fucking hate controversy. Why is society BUILT on it?!
Wow, thanks for showing your true feelings. Hope you feel better. Thanks for the name calling. Like I said before, you don't know me and It is really easy to twists people's words when you can't talk to them in person. Sorry if it sounds offensive to you but the Bible is offensive to alot of people.It is our choice to believe in God and the Bible. God gave us the freedom to choose to serve Him or not. I'm not sure what you have chosen but I can't look at life through my own eyes, without the word of God. I'm not judging anyone by saying I don't agree. Do you know what judging is? That would be me saying "you are a cruel hateful person who is going to hell", that is judging, for I would be judging your heart. I would never want ot do that. But when it comes to absolute sin we take a stand against the sin and pray. God loves you so much. So many people here talk about Jesus loving everyone.Do you even have any concept of how much He loves? He died for us so we could be forgiven of the sins we have committed and live under His grace. I'm going to be praying over this whole situation.
Praying is such a cool thing to do...
It's the threatening microsoft if they support gay legislation and the meetings that are held that are anti gay and the fighting against legislation that will make crimes against gay people okay...that I have a hard time swallowing...especially when they are using Jesus' name to put a stamp of approval on it.
By Hutch's actions...he is saying that he thinks that if a person commits a hate crime against someone who is gay...that it is okay. No big deal????
You cannot justify that...no way, no how
I PITTY THE FOOL WHO HATE GAYS
Y'know, lets go about this a different way.
Hey Hutch, you think homosexuality is a choice and therefore shouldn't be protected under an Equal Rights law?
Ok, fine.
I think you and I will agree, Hutch, that *religion* is a choice too, so why don't we allow people to discriminate based on religion?
parent of high schooler | January 25, 2008 6:09 AM
If you can show me where it says that homosexuality is ok in the Bible then my view will change.
I Thessalonians 5:26
Why do we not see men kissing in church, then? "Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss."
(See also Romans 16:16; I Corinthians 16:20; II Corinthians 13:12; I Peter 5:14)
1 Samuel 18
1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house.
3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.
4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.
1 Samuel 20
39 But the lad knew not any thing: only Jonathan and David knew the matter.
40 And Jonathan gave his artillery unto his lad, and said unto him, Go, carry them to the city.
41 And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.
42 And Jonathan said to David, Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both of us in the name of the LORD, saying, The LORD be between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever. And he arose and departed: and Jonathan went into the city.
2 Samuel 1
26 I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.
In the society of ancient Israel, it was not considered proper for a man and woman to have a platonic relationship. Men and women rarely spoke to each other in public. Since David's only relationships with women would have been sexual in nature, then he must be referring to sexual love here. It would not make sense in this verse to compare platonic love for a man with sexual love for a woman; they are two completely different phenomena. It would appear that David is referring to his sexual love for Jonathan.
there are also the stories of Ruth and Naomi as well as Daniel and Ashpenaz.
Hey Mt Si Parent...
Thank you so much for looking all of that up and for being so awesome about posting here...I am so hopeful that someone's heart will be softened...
Excerpt from
"What Did Martin Luther King Do When Confronted With Homosexuality?"
Written By Lesbian Activist Rev. Irene Monroe
MAY. 25, 2007
http://www.theurbanprophet.org/articles/What_Did_Martin_Do.pdf
SADLY, BAYARD RUSTIN, the gay man who was chief organizer and strategist for the 1963 March on Washington that further catapulted Martin Luther King onto the world stage, was not the beneficiary of King’s dream.
In a spring 1987 interview with “Open Hands,” a resource for ministries affirming the diversity of human sexuality, Rustin stated that he pushed King to speak up on his behalf,but King did not. In John D’Emilo’s book “Lost Prophet: The Life and Times of Bayard Rustin,” D’Emilo wrote: “Rustin offered to resign in the hope that he would force the issue. Much to his chagrin, King did not reject the offer. At the time, King was also involved in a major challenge to the conservative leadership of the National Baptist Convention, and one of his ministerial lieutenants in the fight was also gay. Basically, King said, ‘I can’t take on two queers at one time.’”
Would the public King have spoken out on gay rights? And if he had, would he have risked his already waning popularity with the African-American community and President Johnson?
While Coretta and Yolanda have spoken out on gay civil rights, I am beginning to wonder now if MLK would have raised his voice on our behalf.
He may not have spoken up at that time but I am fairly sure he would not have threatened a large corporation with a national boycott if the large corporation was supporting gay rights and I don't think MLK would actively fight against legislation that would add anti gay crimes to Hate Crime legislation.
I'm going to hit a number of posts here.
77 - "As for the Principal in that school, has nobody seen that his inviting Mr. Hutcherson to speak to his students is a slap in the face of the school district's policy on tolerance and the right to learn?" So, tolerance is ok, only if the speaker agrees with you. Is that right? Doesn't Hutchison have the right to speak what he believes? How is it harmful for students to learn other views so they can make up their mind for themselves as to what is right? If they are only given one side, how can they make an informed decision?
91 - If the majority of Germans believe being a Natzi is ok, does that make it ok? Public opinion is not always best at determining your choices. I hear public opinion polls on TV all the time, but they don't mean anything. As far as I'm concerned polls aren't even news. They are just the opinion of the few people they polled.
101 - "One of my friends was being harassed so badly for standing up for her opinions that she had to leave school." That says volumes about school tolerance. Why wasn't the friend allowed to express her opinions without harassment?
121 Right on! If there was a question and answer session after the speech, then the teacher would have been right to question the speaker, but stick to the topic. To just blurt out an irrelevant question was wrong. If anyone here was giving a speech and I jumped up and asked a question that was irrelevant to the topic, what would you think?
Is it wrong to quote the Bible, as some have done here? Is it wrong to talk about God and the Bible in school? You talk of tolerance, so show tolerance. If the school has a gay group, do they also have a Bible study group? If they open the doors to one group, shouldn't they open the doors to all groups, or are they intolerant?
194 - "Religion has no place in our schools or in our laws." News flash. Evolution is the teaching of a religion. We shouldn't allow that in school either.
Some here have said we shouldn't offend others. Since when do we have the right to not be offended? I find cigarette smoke offensive. I also find body odor and profanity offensive. Maybe everyone who smells bad or swears should be put in prison.
218 - As to David being gay, read on. You will find that David had a number of wives and many children. As for the quote, "... until David exceeded". Other translations say that David's grief at having to leave his friend was greater than (exceeded) Jonathan's. I have a number of male friends. I'm very close to some, but I have absolutely no desire to have sex with them. As for the nudity, in those days, they were intelligent enough to separate nudity and sex. Do you have sex every time you take a shower? You're nude. You must be having sex, probably by yourself. It's only in this bent, puritan society that we confuse nudity and sex. There are other cultures that aren't so hung up on sex. A number of people were nude in the Bible. Elijah, Noah, King Saul, Isaiah and Peter, to name a few. They weren't having sex either.
I was a student of Ms. McCormick when she worked at Cedarcrest High School in Duvall. While Duvall is certainly an equally non-diverse community, I'm certain I never heard anyone say the miserable things I'm seeing Mt. Si students and parents post on the topics of homosexuality,etc. As a Christian, I would urge you to "grow up" as well as grow in your faith to understand it is not our place to judge, and that is the place of God-- and despite a few odd passages in scripture regarding homosexuality, it is only our place to love and respect one another.
Ms. McCormick was anything but unprofessional. Rather, she was and is a stellar teacher, one who pushes students to think outside the box of far-right conservatism and to be quite honest, she was one of the best teachers at Cedarcrest and we were all sad to see her, and her passion for equality, leave our campus.
Ms. McCormick, your AP Lit students of 2004 love you and are very proud of the stand you took, the students needed to know. On the path to change we all must encounter trials, and we salute you for revealing the hypocrisy and bigotry facing the students of Mt. Si. under the guise of equality.
Hutch should have never been invited into a public high school to speak on civil rights. This is not brain surgery. Separation of church and state...it is that simple.
In response to post 218:
I see you have a Bible from all the wonderful scripture verses you put down. Would like to encourage you to look look your scriptures up in the study notes and to also read it all in context. Would also like to say that just because the same gender say they love each other doesn't mean they'er having sex. In case you don't have study notes I'll give you one. For 2 Samuel 1:26...(study note)(more wonderful than that of women)David is not suggesting that marital love is inferior to that of friendship, nor do his remarks have any sexual implications. He is simply calling attention to Jonathan's nearly inexplicable self-denying commitment to David,whom he had long recognized as the Lord's choice to succeed his father rather than himself....And in response to the "seperation of church and state"..The first amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." An accurate interpretaion of the amendment must include the following: *There is no mention of the words "Church," "State," or "separation" in the first amendment. *Included in the amendment are additional rights which relate to the free exercise of religion: the right to talk about religion (freedom of speech), the right to publish religious works (freedom of the press), the right of people to worship publicly,either individually or in groups (freedom of assembly), and the right to petition the government when it goes beyond its delegated constitutional authority in these areas (the right of political involvement). **The prohibition in the First Amendment is addressed exclusively to Congress. Individual states and governmental institutions (e.g., public schools,Capitol building steps, national parks, atc.) are not included in the amendment's prohibition. As clear as this is, some try to rewrite the First Amendment in order to fit their misconceptions about its meaning and implementation. One way is to make the amendment apply to the states, as in this example: " The First Amendment to the U.S. COnstitution is the direct descendant of Jefferson's Virginia resolution, and its words are quite clear: Congress, and by extension the states,'shall make no law respecting an extablishment of religion.' If the constitutional framers wanted to include the phrase "and by extension the states," they would have done so. Since the states insisted on including a Bill of Rights to protect them, why would they include an amendment that restricted their sovereignty? * There is no mention of a freedom FROM religion. The First Amendment offers no support of a position that would outlaw religion just because it exists or offends those of a different religion or those who have no religion at all. *There is a second part to the religion clause of the First Amendment that states that Congress cannot "prohibit the free exercise thereof." in a June 19,2000, ruling by the Supreme Court, the the majority of justices outlawed student-led prayer at high school sporting events. For example, a teacher of political science and constitutional law at Agnes Scott College in Decatur, Georgia, in support of the Court's decision, never quotes the clause that mandates that there can be no prohibition of "the free exercise of religion." With so much debate, how does anyone know what the First Amendment really means? An interpreter of any document as inportant as the Constitution must consider the historical circumstances that led to is formation, the vocabulary of the period, documents of similar construction, the political views of the authors, the prevailing religious worldview,and the intended audience. With these points in mind, it would be wise, therefore, to follow the method suggested by Thomas Jefferson in understanding the original meaning of the First Amendment: " On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed".....When the Constitution was sent to the states for ratification, there was fear that the new national government had too much power. It was then proposed that additional prohibitions should be listed in the Constitution to restrict further the national government's power and authority. The area of religion was important, since a number of the states had established churches. Some of the framers were concerned that the federal government would establish a NATIONAL church., to be funded by tax dollars and controlled by the newly formed government, and that a national church would disestablish the existing state churches. So then, the First Amendment was designed to protect the states against the national (federal) government. The amendment was not designed to desestablish the Christian religion as it found expression in the state constitutions or anywhere else.
So if Tim Eyman spoke to a captive high school audience on how tax expenditures on his schooling and public roadways benefited his life it would be inappropriate to ask him how that jives with all his current anti-tax initiatives? Or we should simply expect the students to sort out the hypocrisy? Hutch refuses to answer a very respectfully asked question, "How do you reconcile your 'pro-equality' message with your national advocacy to deny equal rights to a large group of people?" It is a fair question and thank god somebody asked it, and provided an educational opportunity to the students and faculty of Mount Si.
Wow America has come along way. When an African American Can preach his hate and biggotry to our children.I guess the black man is saying not all men are created equal?How sad is it he act so ignorantly on Martin Luther King day. A real American who fought for equality,and how adorable his kids friends come and try to take up for him.Future biggots of America. God bless the USA.Let's hope his inequality message get's through.He could benefit from a good thourogh lynching..Amen let's preach the gospel "Boy!"Sad so sad lets move beyond ignorance America
I am also a recent graduate of Mount Si High School, and I had Ms. McCormick as a teacher for two years.
I would just like to commend Ms. McCormick for taking a stand against Ken Hutcherson, as his mere presence at the assembly was inappropriate, as MLK Jr.'s family compares the racism that he faced in the 60s to that of the prejudices of sexual orientation today.
I also found this letter written to Joel Aune, the superintendent of Snoqualmie Valley School District, on the parents of Mount Si blog, which I think about explains it all:
"Mr. Joel Aune
Superintendent
Snoqualmie Valley Public Schools
PO Box 400
Snoqualmie, WA 98065
January 21, 2008 (Martin Luther King Day)
Re: Ken Hutcherson, MLK, and Washington State Law
As the parents of current Mt. Si students, we’re not sure what worries us more, the administration’s insulting choice for a human rights speaker or your district’s poor reaction to the inevitable outcry. We are forever grateful for the courage of Ms. McCormick and the coverage of the local media; otherwise we would have never realized the nature and depth of this problem.
As I understand it, this is not the first time Mt. Si has dealt with this man or this issue. According to blog reports from teachers and students, Mr. Hutcherson was invited to address your students three years ago. Even then, a number of concerned folks raised concern. Now that we know this, you can’t blame us for fearing that someone high in your district has a secret agenda.
As you well know, Mr. Hutcherson is not famous for playing football, growing up African American, or preaching Christianity. No, he’s world famous for his militant stance against all homosexuals. Much of his “Christian preaching” uses twisted, violent imagery, equivocating homosexuals with society’s worst criminals:
“My idea here is to drop a spiritual bomb on D.C, like Spain, where they had the terrorist bomb.”
“I'm lovingly aggressive, [with gays] the same I'd be for a murderer or an adulterer.”
But that’s nothing. He also founded the anti gay extremist group Watchman on the Walls. He did so together with Holocaust Revisionist Scott Lively, the guy who wrote The Pink Swastika. In that book, Lively not only claims Hitler was gay, he preaches that the Nazis and WWII were the product of a vast gay conspiracy. As one book review states, the author claims that:
“because "sodomy" was a crime in Germany and many other countries both before and after the rise of the Nazi regime, it's perfectly acceptable that homosexuals were placed in concentration camps during the days of the 3rd Reich. By that reckoning, people today shouldn't be upset about slavery in Colonial America, because it was "legal" at that time. The authors point out that there was never a directive to murder all homosexuals in Germany, as there was against Jews. This is true, but, as they admit, homosexuals were killed in the camps, and through violent attacks on the outside. Yes, the number of gays killed by Nazis was miniscule compared to the number of Jews murdered, but so what? Does that mean no one can talk about it, or that we should pretend it never happened? Discussing the topic of Nazi homophobia in no way lessens anyone's respect for what Jews, political dissidents, Catholics, Romany, degenerate artists, etc., suffered under the 3rd Reich, unless you're hysterically homophobic, as these authors appear to be.
So despite all of this, the district tagged Hutcherson to speak again and once again, a few brave souls spoke out. This time however, the media caught wind. On January 18, 2008, the administration issued their first “apology” not to the parents or the students but to Mr. Hutcherson who, according to your administration, should never have been questioned in a public forum celebrating civil disobedience and civil rights. Then came your second apology to the parents, that informed us that Hutcherson came to speak on “MLK” and “racism” but purposely failed to tell us the nature of his “separate issue” which caused all the controversy.
For now, it appears that Mr. Hutcherson and the administration see eye to eye on their criticism of Ms. McCormick. According to the district, the main issue and main lesson here is assembly decorum, not human rights. That must be so because asking Hutcherson an honest question is much more destructive to MLK’s message than using a violent homophobe to deliver it. Even now, after Ms. McCormick has called him on the carpet, your damage control claims that Hutcherson was still a perfectly acceptable method to “stimulate discussion.”
I think it’s the district’s mission statement that claims your administration seeks to “foster acceptance, appreciation and respect for…the cultural and ethnic diversity of our community” and to “promote understanding and appreciation of the rights, duties, privileges and responsibilities in an ever changing world.”
Our legislature couldn’t agree more and recently passed amendments to RCW 49.60.010 which makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. So what message do you send our children and their parents when you give this man a school podium for any subject let alone human rights? Is it that difficult to find an admirable leader to speak about MLK? True, Hutcherson has a perfect right to his religious beliefs, but a public school has absolutely no right to promote it.
Since it was his day after all, it’s only fair we let MLK and his family have the final word on this subject. As many people are discussing on and off line, the ultimate irony here is that Coretta Scott King has spoken out repeatedly comparing the fight against gay discrimination to her husband’s grand struggle. “Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people [and] to deny their humanity.”
In the end, your parents letter, encourages us to “discuss these issues with [our] children.” We found that a little challenging since your letter failed to tell us what Hutcherson’s “separate issues” actually were. Moreover, since it was your district not the parents that placed Hutcherson on a school podium and pedestal, it is your district that should now devote formal student time to a discussion of gay discrimination and how it fares under Hutcherson’s views, Washington law, and international human rights. Finally, we also request the district issue Ms. McCormick a formal apology for making her the scapegoat.
Concerned and Disappointed Parents"
The argument is fundamentally different than white verse black. Black people do not have a choice, gays do. There is no scientific evidence to the genetic disposition of gays.
As far as people picking on religion, it is no different than the people who pick on gays. Welcome to the world of bigotry. By the way, would there be an America if it were not for religion? Nope! I am not sure what they are teaching you over there in the liberal land but the Constitution speaks of a CREATOR.
The government buildings in Washington were also use for religious services in the 1800's. George Washington and John Adams, President number 1 & 2, signed their letters, "In the Year of Our Lord." Thomas Jefferson stepped it up a notch despite what the ACLU says and signed his letters, "In the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ."
I am not making this stuff up, do your homework. The point being that the men who established what we know as the good old USA and all the documents that we follow today are steeped in principles that come right out of that antique document some of you refer to with contempt.
Hate goes both ways. I don't remember the national news discussion Jesse Dirkhising. Google it and you will read of a story that was not classified as a hate crime yet two gay men raped and murdered an innocent boy.
I will end with the fundamental problem. Gay rights are fundamentally different than equal rights based on the purist of life, liberty, and happiness because the gay choose their preference. Gays were not created gay and therefore they are not endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable gay rights. Human right, absolutely! The freedom to choose your lifestyle, yes! But gay rights should not be legislated nor should crimes against gays be any different that any other crime against humanity because your rights are afforded to you in the condition you were created.
So boo if you disagree with someoneone of a differnt mind set, just realize by definition that most likely makes you a bigot. Also, when those who disagree boo or speak back the national news doesn't need to cover it nor do the offenders need to loose their jobs. Remember that the next time a "Bigot" is openly crucified for saying what he/she believes.
Where is the tolerence? This speaker did not even mention marriage between one man and one women during his speech, but that is what he believes. So, he was booed for his beliefs? Who would boo him for his beliefs? By someone who has an agenga, the homosexuals. Their agenda appears to be tolerate the homosexuals deviant behavior and welcome them will open arms allow them special rights and make them into law by a single judge so that more uncurable diseases can be spreaded. The latest disease is one the is resistant to antibodies, according to the AMA. Where is the diesease at? California, ONLY will homosexuals, so far. It will cross over to hetrosexual population just like aids did about 20 years ago. Maybe there IS a penalty for sex outside of "traditional marriage". These quotes will label me as a homophobic because I say that marriage IS, so far, between one man and one woman only. Rev. Hutchensen did not even have to say this and was booed. If GLSEN and gay allience NAMBIA will the rest of the homosexual population, tell lies long enough and we hear them enough, we start to believe them. Those teachers that booed SHOULD BE REPREMANDED! Rev's daughter shoud be PROUD of her and what he stands for even when 2% of Americans CHOSE to practice sodomy on each other. QUESTION: If this situation was reversed, a homosexual comes in to speak and a Christian teacher boos the homosexual, what do you think would happen to that teacher?
Ross you said it very well. Here here! You will NOT hear the story about the boy being raped in the news mafia, I mean the news media because there are very liberal. Everyone is intolerate. You are intolerate for someone breaking into your house and harming your family. We become intolerate when our rights are taken away from us, like having marriage being removed from the definition of 1 man and 1 women.
Ross, you said it very well. Here here! You will NOT hear the story about the boy being raped in the news mafia, I mean the news media because there are very liberal. Everyone is intolerate. You are intolerate for someone breaking into your house and harming your family. We become intolerate when our rights are taken away from us, like having marriage being removed from the definition of 1 man and 1 women.
A true christian would not boo someone just because they were homosexual!
They might stand up and boo them if they happen to know that this same homosexual is trying to pass legislation that will make it so that crimes against blacks because they are black will not be considered as hate crimes.
They might stand up and boo them if they happen to know that this same homosexual is threatening a national boycott against microsoft because microsoft wants to make sure that all employees, including blacks, have access to their health care!!
Your logic...both of you, does not make sense.
How do you know that being gay is a choice?
Does everyone have this same choice?
When You made the choice to have crushes on girls and not boys ...was it an easy choice for you or a hard one.
There is a lot of stuff that goes on with biology and just because scientists have not found the ultimate proof to your satisfaction you are willing to say there is no chance???
These same scientists say that we could not all have come from Adam and Eve and their sons...(incest)and they also say that people have evolved from apes.
Why can't we still be evolving and gays a natural answer (as in nature) to overpopulation and abuse of this planet.
If you are not a scientist I think you are picking and choosing what part of science you believe.
Do you believe in gravity?
When did you choose to believe in gravity?
hmmmm?
To the parents who have expressed concern over the MLK assembly, especially Avery (#64):
I believe your concern would be better focused on the quality of education your students are supposedly receiving via teachers like Mr. Potratz (see Posts 67, 72) and Ms. McCormick. As a teacher and parent, I am appalled at your tolerance of such decidedly biased educators while you are displaying an incredible lack of tolerance for a speaker who does not mimic your own values.
Laurie,
So you would rather that the teachers lie?
Just because the United States has been in charge of most history books doesn't mean that we have been telling the truth.
In any war the first casualty is the truth and thank God for teachers who put it back in the classroom. Don't forget that these teachers have at least gone to 5 more years of school than most of the population.
http://www.historywiz.com/philippines.htm
I just bet you have some nice spin for American Indians too??
sheesh
To Candy's response in 233. There are probably character traits in each of us that were passed on tous by our parents. (Parents being one man and one women) Some of us may have a "fat" trait and will always stuggle will a weight problem. Some may have an anger trait and will have to control their temper. Some maybe depression traits. Candy states: "Your logic...both of you, does not make sense.
How do you know that being gay is a choice?
Does everyone have this same choice?
When You made the choice to have crushes on girls and not boys ...was it an easy choice for you or a hard one."....................and yes possibly some of us will have not a "gay gene",but possibly femine traits. The "gay gene" theory was reputed on front papers serveral years ago and then was founded to be totally false, The disclaimer was placed almost in the back of the paper, 4" by 6" space. Guess what a lot of people read and did NOT read? Your genetic make up, like your height, your color of your skin, mental retardation, physical defects, if you will be bald come from your genes that you are born with and you have no control over.
Candy asks, "When You made the choice to have crushes on girls and not boys ...was it an easy choice for you or a hard one[?]" For me, yes it was easy. For someone who has feminine traits, you would have to ask them.
Candy asks a great question, "How do you know that being gay is a choice?"
#1. Wouldn't you think that if homosexuality was NOT a choice and we are "just born gay", the liberal news media would have this on every station, newspaper under flashing lights?
#2. No doctor, scientist has evidence that we are "just born gay".
#3. The most compelling evidence that I personally have is that I have seen and heard many homosexuals leave the lifestyle and some have even gotten married and have had children AND are HAPPIER than when they were in the homosexual lifestyle. But, I have never heard or seen a white man say "I use to be black and now I am white." Or a short man claim that he use to be tall. One is a choice and one is not.
Well Gary, if I were to accept your logic I would have to believe that they are never going to find genes to several other conditions that as of yet have not been found...
Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it isn't there.
So...for these other conditions that we have not found genes for...does that mean they don't exist?
If we knew everything...scientists would be out of a job.
All I know is that what someone does in their bedroom does not affect me or anyone in a bad way.
That is all I need to know.
I'm not certain that my personal values are at issue here. It would be a mistake to assume that my comments are borne of a personal agenda -- they certainly aren't.
I would indeed feel a similar level of outrage if Mt. Si had invited a speaker who was nationally known for his interest in quashing the civil rights of Christians. In that case, it would also be appropriate for a teacher to stand up and ask about the individual's beliefs on a related issue. Education is so much more than the three "R's". Our goal -- I continue to hope -- is to teach our children to think. Really think! Teach them to understand that things aren't always what they seem, and that it can be dangerous to accept a role model at face value.
I stand by my opinion. McCormick did the right thing. Portratz made a childish decision and should be disciplined. Hutcherson was not an appropriate choice for an assembly on equal rights.
I am aware of and happy with the fact that Mt. Si hires a teaching staff with diverse beliefs -- not all of them shared in any way by me or my family. I rejoice in their ability to enjoy the same rights that I do as a citizen, and I am certainly thankful that we have the ability -- if we choose -- to look past our biases and see only the humanity in others.
To respond again to Candy in 237, If I understand you correctly Candy, you believe that if you can't find something or see something, does NOT mean that is it does not exist. I presume that you believe in Jesus. Jesus speaks out against homosexuality. He loves people, but hates sin. He was not politically correct and you could call Him a sinaphobic, because He IS and was intolerant with sin.
I somewhat agree with you when you said all that you kno. "All I know is that what someone does in their bedroom does not affect me or anyone in a bad way." Personally Candy, I do not want to know what you or anyone else does in their bedroom. Candy do you want to know what goes on in people's bedroom? (Yes/No)? You seem like a nice lady, so I am going to guess that you would say "NO!" At least I hope you said "no". So we do agree on this? Candy you can shadow box in your bedroom all you want. You can even take it outside in your backyard, but if your fist hits me in the nose, then my rights are violated and you have stepped over the boundaries. Your rights end where my nose begin, and vise versa. I just wish that I was not on the "need to know" basis with the people who CHOOSE a unnatural deviant acts/behavior(homosexuals). I don't want to know even if it is a natural behavior in their bedroom! That would be T.M.I.(Too Much Imformation)
If a homosexual wants to announce to the pubic what sexual lifestyle he/she has choosen, so be it. Homosexuals and lesbians are as much of a person as you or I. Do we still agree? Yes?No? Homosexuals and lesbians are entitled to freedom of speech just like you and I, right? However, when they want to change traditional marriage to no longer being just between one man and one women,BUT to be 1 man to 1 man, 1 woman to 1 women, that is where THEY have stepped over my rights and do you think it would stop at just these two combinations? Y/N? So if the homosexuals keep it in the bedroom, so be it. It was the homosexuals, 1-2% of the American population, who brought it out in the open, want to change laws on marriage that effects me and millions of other Americans. Not only that, but the homosexuals want all people to welcome their lifesyle with opened arms, regardless of my, yours or anyone else's personal, moral or Biblical beliefs are. Such intolerance! If that is not enough, they have laws passed that if people do not hire them as a Boys Scout leader, the Scout's finacial support IS revoked by the city government.
I will elaborate some more on your profound comment,"Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it isn't there." That is so true. We only know what we know. We know, and I am being generous, 1% of everything there is to know in the Universe. Let's say that 9% is things that we don't know. If we want to learn about the things that we don't know, we go to the library. The other 90% is things that that we don't know that we don't know. We govern ourselves and make laws with the known, NOT the unknown or the things that we don't know that we don't know. Yes Candy there may be a day that scientist find a "homosexual gene" and a day when man will fly with cloned wings and when we think of a city, we are instantly there and of course when scientist discover that saliva causes cancer, but only when swallowed in small amounts. Ludicrous? Or maybe it has not been discovered yet. Who's to say. Huh? With the logic of "Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it isn't there." is fine and dandy, but don't start making assumptions, laws and conclusions from that logic. otherwise, you could get silly and start eating dreamsicles and come up with laws from that logic. Like, protect the Martians, Stop fishing cause of Nessy the Monster, etc...
@239: I just don't grasp where a marriage of 2 men or 2 women step on your rights. You're entitled to your opinion. But this is a secular country (there's no church in charge) and each of us are entitled to life, liberty and happiness. I don't see where the liberty is for me and my partner because our rights are restricted and I don't see where your liberty is affected by me marrying my boyfriend. Please explain to me how a marriage involving the two of us (two guys who don't know you and to my knowledge our paths have never crossed yours) would have any bearing whatsoever on your personal liberties or marriage.
Please leave religion out of it since what we're talking about are the laws of man (state, local and federal law) not religious dicta. I do agree that people of different religions can come to different conclusions- hence many muslims have multiple wives, etc.
As for the Boy Scout decision- I agree that as a private organization they are allowed to admit who they want and discriminate against those they do not want. Just as the State of Connecticut, the City of San Diego and other governments that have non-discrimination statutes on their books prohibit money from going to organizations that discriminate even on the basis of sexual orientation. That, my dear friend, what federalism is all about.
Dear Gary,
I don't really remember Jesus speaking out against homosexuality...do you have a reference?
Even if you do find something in the bible...I am not the bible's biggest fan...there are so many mixed messages in it that I can only assume that humans messed up when they were writing it.
Otherwise...people who eat pork would all go to hell and I just choose not to believe that.
How can someone be intolerant with sin and yet be supportive of folks like the adultress.
That was a huge sin...actually hurting someone.
I still don't see how gays hurt anyone.
Of course I don't want to know what happens in anyone else's bedroom, unless someone is being hurt. You say 2% perform sodomy...are you forgetting that hetero couple perform sodomy?
How is my fist hitting you in your nose?? How have your rights been violated??? We are not even talking gay marriage in regards to Hutcherson.
1. He does not want gay couples to have the same rights as married couples.
In other words, one can not get health insurance under another. I don't see why that would hurt anyone. If a company like Microsoft thinks it is perfectly okay that their employees health insurance covers their partner why should anyone else have a say in that?
2. Hutcherson does not want the law which makes hate crimes include gays and lesbians. He only wants hate crimes to apply to blacks and religious... Why on earth would he get all involved in that for? How does that affect him personally? His actions against this addition practically put a stamp of approval on crimes against gay people. How bizarre is that?
"Homosexuals and lesbians are as much of a person as you or I. Do we still agree? Yes?No?"
Yes yes yes yes yes!!!
" Homosexuals and lesbians are entitled to freedom of speech just like you and I, right?"
Yes yes yes yes yes!!!
Even if they did have the right to marry...how would that affect you or infringe on your rights?
The reasons they want to do it is so that they can benefit from all of the rights that married couples have enjoyed all of these years.
Who does that hurt?
I can't think of it hurting anyone...
Even children would benefit!
Why couldn't they get married in a Christian church that allows it...
(Many churches do) and why couldn't the government accept it as a civil union?
Would that be okay or would it affect you somehow?
I can't think of one person this would hurt!
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