Slog - Comments on Good to Know http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1 The delegate count: Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama each won nine delegates in New Hampshire's Democratic primary, followed by former Sen. John Edwards with 4 delegates, an AP analysis of primary results shows. All 22 of New Hampshire's delegates to the national convention this summer have been allocated. Clinton and Obama won the same number of delegates, even though Clinton edged Obama in votes, because New Hampshire awards delegates proportionally, and the vote was relatively close. In the overall race for the nomination, Clinton leads with 187 delegates, including separately chosen party and elected officials known as superdelegates.... Copyright 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:07:21 -0800 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:59:28 -0800 http://www.movabletype.org/?v=3.34 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Comment by tsm So all that gnashing of teeth was for nothing? And what will happen when, say, Edwards drops out and those 50 Edwards delegates go to one candidate or the other? Who the hell designed this whole process?

]]> tsm http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894094 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894094 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:05:28 -0800 Comment by fnarf It's a pretty good process, actually. What would YOU want to happen to dropouts' delegates? The superdelegates, on the other hand, are just weird. They're basically elected officeholders. It's normal for a lot of them to be pledged to someone before the primaries even begin. But still weird.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894099 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894099 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:09:53 -0800 Comment by fnarf OK, more weirdness: New Hampshire has five superdelegates, and three went to Obama (they can go for whomever they want), two for Clinton, which means Clinton won the primary but Obama GETS MORE DELEGATES!

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/candidates/#val=1746

versus

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/candidates/#val=1918

Obama won. Huh?

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894112 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894112 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:24:18 -0800 Comment by annie And how did Obama get any superdelegates in NH? I thought the party people were hardcore Clinton.

]]> annie http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894115 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894115 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:31:37 -0800 Comment by gnossos Not all the party people, but the majority for sure. Even though the party appartchiks remain loyal to the Clintons, Bill's been out of power for seven years and some new blood has crept in. As leader of the party, Dean has changed the make-up of the party's fixers to folks more of his liking. My guess is they would tend to favor Obama.

]]> gnossos http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894117 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894117 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:37:14 -0800 Comment by StrangerDanger Youth! Youth! You..oh wait...never mind.

]]> StrangerDanger http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894120 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894120 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:42:14 -0800 Comment by Gitai The superdelegates were put into place to prevent an insurrection like McGovern from happening again. By putting more than 600 delegates under the control of the party elite, it would take a revolution for someone not favored to a decent degree by the party elite to win, and in that case, the superdelegates would go along with the revolution.

However, a narrow victory through delegate counts like the one McGovern engineered becomes impossible.

]]> Gitai http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894126 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894126 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:46:53 -0800 Comment by laterite Fear and Loathing On The Campaign Trail (required reading for any political junkie) goes deep into the delegate process. Basically, in the golden olden days, the convention truly would be the final battleground, where delegates slugged it out and wheeled and dealed to get their man nominated. Every delegate count could prop someone else up by the end of the day. Sometimes the nominee wouldn't be determined until the last hours of the convention. Of course now, the middle primaries pretty much serve to wrap up a single nominee, and all these early delegate factions just throw themselves to that candidate long before the convention. These early primary states are still important because this is the time when delegate-swapping can still take place and push momentum in one direction or another, and their participants are the last bastion of this process. That's why these states will ALWAYS lobby to remain first in line.

]]> laterite http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894127 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894127 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:47:39 -0800 Comment by Big Sven Setting aside superdelegates for a moment, it's interesting that even though Clinton got more delegates in IA (15) than Edwards (14, working kind of like the national electoral college did in 2000), nobody talked about Clinton coming in second.

But you all are happy to belittle her victory in NH. Are you going to be like this if she gets the nomination? Are you going to keep saying shitty things about her constantly? Just curious.

]]> Big Sven http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894142 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894142 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:00:25 -0800 Comment by tsm Defensive much, Sven?

]]> tsm http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894152 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894152 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:07:57 -0800 Comment by fnarf Yeah, jeez. I haven't said anything shitty about her, Sven.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894157 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894157 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:10:28 -0800 Comment by josh the superdelegates can (and do) change their votes along the way, regardless of pledges: remember 2004 when so many of them pledged for Dean early?

]]> josh http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894162 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894162 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:13:28 -0800 Comment by Bellevue Ave sven, hillary is kicking ass in superdelegates across the nation. go to CNN and get informed.

]]> Bellevue Ave http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894175 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894175 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:21:14 -0800 Comment by annie FYI, here are the Washington state superdelegates I could find:

Jay Inslee (Clinton), Maria Cantwell (Clinton), Adam Smith (Obama), Rick Larson (undeclared), Brian Baird (undeclared), Norm Dicks (undeclared), Jim McDermott (undeclared), Patty Murray (undeclared), Christine Gregoire (undeclared), Dwight Pelz (undeclared), Eileen Macoll (undeclared)

But there are supposed to be 17 total.

]]> annie http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894183 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894183 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:26:27 -0800 Comment by fnarf Josh, that is very true. I think the majority of them will swing if a clear winner emerges. And I think one WILL emerge, on Super Tuesday. Unless South Carolina is a blowout for Clinton or Obama, the race will be essentially tied until then.

But Edwards is not going to be a kingmaker. That doesn't happen anymore. Be pretty entertaining if it did! I'd actually like to see Democratic positions being visibly hashed out as late as August.

]]> fnarf http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894203 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894203 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:44:45 -0800 Comment by Big Sven tsm, just tired of the incessant nit-picking and belittling of a great candidate.

If people treated Obama or Edwards as shitty as so many people on the SLOG treat Clinton, they would be accused of being cynical or mean spirited. But somehow it's o.k. with Clinton, because she the "establishment" candidate.

But as I've often said "the only thing worse than a poor loser is a poor winner." So feel free to pile it on- she didn't really win NH, she was an "architect of the war in Iraq", hell, she even killed Vince Foster!

Today all your carping is like the tinkling of distant cymbals in a summer breeze.

]]> Big Sven http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894219 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894219 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:54:14 -0800 Comment by Big Sven bellevue, fnarf, everybody-

I should be less of a grump. It's late, I've had a long and exciting day, and I have a cold.

Cheers.

]]> Big Sven http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894221 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894221 2008 Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:57:24 -0800 Comment by gnossos I'm with fnarf in hoping that this thing actually doesn't get resolved until much later. Not just for the political drama, but because I think it will serve the dems well in the election. It keeps a big media focus on the dem agenda and gives the repubs less time to develop their strategy. I hope both Edwards and Richardson score a win or two pretty quick and keep it interesting.

]]> gnossos http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894241 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894241 2008 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 00:33:15 -0800 Comment by unPC grump away, Big Sven your points were good.

]]> unPC http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894246 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894246 2008 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 00:41:12 -0800 Comment by Phoebe Sven, I'm still saying shitty things about KERRY. I voted for him in the general, but why should my feelings change just because he won?

]]> Phoebe http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894287 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894287 2008 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:48:29 -0800 Comment by RonK, Seattle Well, OK. Silly you.

Silly for not knowing what superdelegates are?

Or silly for reporting on the delegate contest and not knowing what superdelegates are?

Or silly for being proud of either of teh above?

]]> RonK, Seattle http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894538 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894538 2008 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:19:27 -0800 Comment by cbc This superdelegate thing is bunch of shit. I feel like no matter what she's getting the nomination. Her and Bill have way too much behind the scene power and leverage over them. It's just another way for the Democratic establishment to fuck itself over like it did in 2004.

]]> cbc http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894545 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894545 2008 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:22:26 -0800 Comment by annie @21: Of course I know what superdelegates are--I learned quite a bit when I was a Dean delegate to the state convention in 2004. Silly you. But I haven't been paying attention to their distribution since early Dec, when many outlets were reporting that they weren't committing yet out of respect for voters. Silly me.

]]> annie http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894716 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c894716 2008 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:07:54 -0800 Comment by sam_iv No denying that the worst enemy of the Democrats is the Democratic Party Elite (Money), Think Tanks and Washington Insiders. Kos speaks to this in Crashing the Gate.

The worst mistake we could make is to nominate an unelectable candidate. There is only one person who beats all the Republicans hands down.

All in all, I think the Dems' unity theme is playing well and should be continued. Its interesting how the other candidates have starting using Obama's rhetoric to frame their own positions now.

]]> sam_iv http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c895156 http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/good_to_know_1#c895156 2008 Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:59:28 -0800