cue: OMG WHAT IS THIS CITY/NEIGHB COMING TO!!!??!?!?!1111!ONE
when in reality we live in a huge city and tragedies like this happen =/ It sucks.
Was it hip-hop night?
it seems like capital hill has been moving up with these sorts of crimes in the last two years. someone once blamed it on the city pushing "bad" people out of belltown and pioneer square. All I know, is whatever is going on there isnt looking too neighbor-friendly. Ouch.
And the Mayor will be calling for a shut-down of all city pizza parlors in: ten...nine...eight...
Condolences to the family and friends of the victim. This kind of shit really is starting to get way out of hand.
@2: Actually, yes, it was. According to their Web site, every Friday is a club night called SPLABDOOBLY!
The evening is described as "A NIGHT OF STUPID DOPE HIP HOP EXTRA FRESH PARTY ROCK."
Sounds like a gas.
Perhaps these events just weren't talked about as much before the last 6 months but it seems that Seattle's become a much more violent place recently....
OK: here's the obligatory dose of perspective. Seattle's crime rate is not increasing, and Capitol Hill's portion of that crime isn't increasing either.
Having gotten that out of the way: this was Friday night on a street full of bars - shouldn't there have been plenty of witnesses?
Another killing within a half mile radius of my apt. Great. Love to be in the center of it. Just when I thought it was safer to walk down the well lit and populated streets...
Yes, more crime happens in denser cities/neighborhoods, but this getting out of hand!
I haven't seen stories about this elsewhere. Where else is this being reported?
I thought neigborhoods with people out walking around at night were supposed to be more safe?
What can people who are fed up with this shit do? Seriously, I'm ready to do the whole "take back the streets" thing.
Dod: nowhere else yet. SPD hasn't released any info. I stumbled onto the scene this morning.
Capitol Hill is sooo dense.
Damnit, this makes me mad.
@11: I'm with you. As an active member of the neighborhood, I feel that passive acceptance is not enough. We need to react.
What is the "take back the streets" thing?
How random is this violence? I've always believed that most of the violence, in any neighborhood or city, doesn't involve too many innocent bystanders. Maybe that's naive, but I've always felt that if I kept myself away from the clubs that didn't keep the violent element out, and didn't buy drugs or sell them on the street, that I'd greatly up the odds of me remaining safe.
Is that unrealistic? Because I'm taking my dog to the bar if I start feeling endangered! (j/k, sort of)
WTF's going on?? i'm moving to west seattle. fuck this.
I bounce at R-Place and the cops were all over that place around 12:30. One cop right after the other came flying down Pine. The intel I was able to gather is there was an argument between 2 men, one pulled out a gun and shot the other man 3 times. That is all I know.
@15: You're right, shootings like this are most often targeted, but there are dozens of people who walk to/from downtown and other neighborhood locations (some times late at night) on a regular basis. What's to keep innocent bystanders from getting caught in the crossfire?
My girlfriend and I were walking home from Pacific Place when this happened. There was a huge crowd in front of the Baltic Room and we were about 15 feet away when the shots went off. We just turned around and bolted back around the corner onto Minor. I think I heard 6 shots total. Judging by the crowd it looked like a fight had started in the club itself and then been escalated to "taking it outside" with the crowd to follow.
Hiphop night. Again. Classic. When will the nightclub apologists be showing up here to defend it?
This will really help sales for that new condo development replacing the Marion Apartments on Pine!
I was around the corner at bauhaus and heard 5 shots followed by a bunch of black dudes running every which way thru traffic.
I'm glad they closed Sugar which was by my house. Fuck hip-hop, fuck gun violence and fuck the total pussies who think it's cool or even marginally tough to shoot someone. Got balls? then fight. Total pussy? Bring a gun.
You gay ass punkass northwest washingtonian weirdos are so detached from reality. All the way across the board. Your comments are not even relevant to life. There are killings everywhere from Spain to Spokane. Every walk of life, young to old. Country, hip hop, rock, r&b, contemporary, poor and rich. Sorry your little weirdo neighborhood has been affected by the tragic loss of life. Get a grip and come correct you robot weirdos.
It's depressing, but here in Albuquerque I hear gun shots all the time. The hispanic population here will take any chance they get to set off a firearm. I've heard that 99% of the time its someone just scaring someone or showing off their gun. I've taken to what the locals do: close my windows and blinds and hang low.
@23 I don't think I've EVER heard of fighting escalating to murder at a punk rock or metal show and I've been to countless. I've seen a million fights, but the guys duke it out and somebody leaves with a bloody nose. Most people aren't stupid enough to end someone else's life and ruin their own just because someone "disrespected" them. But unfortunately, it is largely hip hop fans who feel that this is an acceptable way to behave. When was the last time you heard of some idiot senselessly killing someone outside of Metal Mondays?
"nowhere else yet."
amy, that's not true. kiro-am mentioned the incident on a news update this morning. i know most hipster sloggers don't know what a radio is, but there's other mainstream media besides tv and newspaper.
So Caliboy, you're saying to remain desensitized and accept it? Because it happens everywhere, it's okay?
I KNOW it happens everywhere. And in many places, more frequently and violently.
That does not make it acceptable.
Murders and shootings happen everywhere so we should just accept it. FUCK THAT!
Let's get guns off the streets. I was totally against a nightlife license, but problem clubs have got to go (as happened with Sugar). And parents, how about teaching your children about the value of human life.
I would also like to point out Neumos hosted 5 straigth nights of hip hop with the Blue Scholars and as far as I know, no one died, no one was shot.
Geez, I don't get why *IGNORANT* people want to blame hip-hop music. The hill is just a shitty neighborhood okay? 10 years ago, they were blaming all the punk rock shows.
So there just happened to be a hiphop nite going on, big deal. There was probably one going on in half the clubs on the hill that nite. It's trendy right now, if you haven't heard.
Why don't people focus on the REAL details of this shooting?
Stop attempting to erase the fact that it was "hip hop night" and that there were "hip hop fans" seen running from the scene. It is not a race issue, however it is most certainly a "hip hop culture" issue. I have carried a handgun (legally) for years as a civilian and never had the thought to use it to "settle an argument." Perhaps because I am not a half-retarded ape that tries to live the gangsta-thug lifestyle.
You may not live the gangsta thug lifestyle (good for you! Gold star!) but I take issue with you claiming you're not a half-retarded ape. Chances are you're more like a full on retarded weasel.
"I'm on the dance floor
And the DJ dropped my 45
I was so hyped that I dropped my 45
And everybody just ran ran ran"
I don't know why it just posted me as Chris. However, what I meant to say is that I agree with you not being a half-retarded ape because you're probably a full retarded weasel instead.
And I feel like a dodo right now.
Here come the racists...
Hip Hop nights at the Baltic Room are the worst, filled with aggressive, wasted, shallow people, spilling out onto the streets and totally disrespecting the neighborhood. I've seen numerous giant SUVs parked in the middle of pine street, not moving, for 5-10 minutes, with lines of cars behind them and the other lane filled with people standing around, completely disrespecting everyone else. I've been in Juliano's Pizza at 2am before on those nights and I wanted to call the cops for him, he's always surrounded on all sides by very large and drunk dudes being super aggressive and confrontational because their pizza wasn't ready, seriously surrounding the poor guy, leaning over the wall demanding he finish their order. So disrespectful.
That Night, for whatever reason, is a fucking disaster and that it's turned deadly is so goddamned sad. It's not a race thing. My experience with that night is that it's full of belligerent assholes. If that sounds racist to you, YOU are the racist for holding black and white people to different standards. Hip Hop is not dangerous music, but drunks who fire guns are dangerous and worthless people regardless of race. Weird how that works.
Oh, and to the guy above who used the phrase "half-retarded ape," you deserve to be lynched for saying such backwards bullshit.
One less dirtbag wannabe gangbanger from 'da hood that we have to worry about. At least he won't have any more children to pass on into the thug lifestyle.
Another scum bites the dust. Good...
If this has nothing to do with race, then why all the guns showing up at hip hop nights? Don't want people to pull the race card? Stop bringing guns to hip hop shows.
How many gun incidents were reported at the crocodile, sunset tavern, comet tavern, neumos or the funhouse in the last 5 years? I'll give you a dollar if you can point to one.
Looks like a band called Accidental Gun Death played at the Funhouse in March of last year. That's the best I've got.
The issue I have with most of the comments here is there is an abundance of peaceful, law-abiding people who like Hip-Hop, myself included.
The same goes for any other scene. I grew up in LA, and I went to plenty of punk shows where it ended abruptly because a bunch of (mostly white) gangsters started fighting and somebody got stabbed. It wasn't the music, it was the douchebags who did the violence. This isn't any different.
Don't blame the music.
I was at the Baltic Room last night and there was a fight inside of the club which then led outside. All we could hear in the club was three loud thuds and instantly everyone ducked to try to save their own lives. Police and ambulance were already on scene once everybody left the club and as I was passing one police vehicle I saw a young guy in the back seat so obviously someone was arrested.
Both Ish: http://gayseattle.blogspot.com/2008/01/ish-pictures.html, on the 1st Saturday of the month, and B-Bar, on the 3rd Saturday of the month, are gay nights at the Baltic Room seem so far from the kind of vibe being described. It sounds like a completely different place from what I have experienced during the Baltic Room on their gay nights.
ok, hip hop nights at urban clubs are probably the most likely place you'll find gun violence in the urban nightlife world. If that is your metric for judging all violence that occurs, that that one sliver of a demographic represents all white and black violence nationwide across the board, you are walking around with blinders on.
Just because hip hop clubs are statistically more violent than indie rock clubs does not in any way mean that black people are more violent than white people.
After the Capitol Hill house shooting a little while back, race was not an issue. Nobody said, "there go the hicks again, shooting anything that moves, dumb hicks." People condemned the perpetrator based on his moral decrepitude and disgusting crime alone. Why the fuck can no one do the same in this situation??
Because we (white people) are conditioned to be AFRAID of black people, hundreds of years of racist propoganda, biased media coverage, and manipulative parents and church leaders have deeply ingrained in us a feeling of deep unease and acute misunderstanding of the black community and the black experience. We have no idea what life as a black american is like, no concept of the hardship and living history of slavery, no concept of what it means to lack a homeland, with no generations of white wealth to fall back on. Your life is as different from a Harlemite as your life is different from a mountain lion. We have no concept, no understanding, which breeds fear, which breeds hatred.
And what does it all lead back to? CAPITALISM!! We built this nation on the broken, bloodied backs of blacks and asians and indians. We built an entire prosperous economy, laid the groundwork of a whole fucking nation FOR FREE, through vicious exploitation, based on the Capitalist ideal that there are no ethics, just profits. Everything fails when an artificial construct such as money is the only driving factor behind decisions. We are conditioned to accept the contrary, when all the evidence says otherwise. We step each day in the blood of our forebears and America is a failure for what it has done to so many.
The Bottom Line built this nation and millions died, generations will suffer, and there will never be any such thing as normal race relations because of it. Capitalism destroyed race in America and everywhere else. Even now in Africa, we rape their land, enslave their people, install dictators to do our mass killing, and have left an entire continent to suffer for not playing the Capitalist game. What a horrible and poisonous system we have developed for ourselves.
I think it's cowardly. In the crazy times of the wild west, who would shoot an unarmed man? Race means nothing when it looks like one MF asshole with a gun shooting another one standing there defenseless. That's what's fucked up about the situation. I just watched 3:10 to Yuma so I'm kind of sensitive to the whole gun fight thing right now. :o
Hip-Hop is not exclusively for black people. That should be incredibly obvious. People who shout "Racist!" whenever someone connects violence to hip-hop culture are ignorant themselves. It's not about race, it's not about music, it's about the broader scene, which seems to foment gun violence at a rate much higher than other music or social scenes. This could very well be, as Sickening@34 points out, because hip-hop nights at clubs attract belligerent gun-toting assholes.
I agree with you that black people are inherently more violent, but the fact remains that they do commit crimes in disproportion to their numbers.
I hardly know where or how to begin.
Half of these comments here sicken me. Where is your sense of humanity? Fuck the racist, the ignorant, the cynical and the apathetic comments. Don't you realize someone just lost their son/brother/lover/friend? A human being died. It's unfortunate that so many of you have your heads up your asses and the majority of you are so primitive as to let your lives be ruled by your prejudices.
WE NEED TO ASK THE RIGHT QUESTIONS!!!!
How about being constructive instead of destructive, people.
I'm sure most hip hop fans hate the violence like everyone else. But hip also attracts a (small?) violent subculture, resulting in a wildly disproportionate number of shots fired and people killed.
I could always tell it was hip hop night in the bar across from me. They only did it a few times. Each time, three Fridays in a row, there was a giant brawl on the street at 2:15 followed by cops everywhere. No shots thankfully. But the bar cancelled the theme night right away.
Yes, most hip hop fans hate the violence, but they love the violent attitude, and continue retardly to believe that there's no straight line between a and b. In a way they piss me off worse than the shooters, who have pretty much cashed out their accounts at the Bank of Humanity.
Also, I hate how much they use ?question marks??? and !!!exclamation !! points!! AND CAPS!!? Punctuation incontinence--it's the new hysteria.
Very sad. Condolences to the family and friends of that poor man.
It's sad when this type of violence happens so close to home, but we all need to realize that we are a big city. The little big city, but still we're a city.
The fact that every time something like this happens we actually CARE is a pretty big deal. Can you imagine people in Chicago getting worked up over this? Or that stabbing? We care, and we are trying to keep our city safe. We look out for each other. I find that very comforting.
Black people aren't inherently more violent. Of all the mistakes to make. Ugh.
Definitely a spike in violent crime on the Hill. Think it's about time to pull up stakes and leave the neighborhood. It's truly going to shit and is no longer a nice place to live
@ 25 nobody goes to metal mondays and if they do they are 50
@50 - Instead of abandoning it, why don't you do something positive to make it better??
Trying to blame hip-hop?! All shows are dangerous, there's sure to be some gunplay at the Decemberists shows next week, granted they'll be using a blunderbuss, but it'll be dangerous!
most hip hop fans in teh NW are white. it would be a statistical anomaly for it to be otherwise. being against hip hop shows doesnt make one racist because race is irrelevant in hip hop, right?
@50 - actually, no, the crime statistics just don't support that. But please, feel free to leave; you're only raising real estate prices, and I'm looking to buy someday.
I can't imagine a bigger gun-owning demographic than the country music audience. Can anyone remember a shooting at the CMA Awards?
Absolutely, we cannot jump to conclusions but the evidence is in... shitty-crunk rap leads to gang-bangers shooting each other. It's not the music's fault but you still cannot deny the link.
There's been a big, pink elephant sitting in the corner for a long time and it's time to not just point it out but find a way to make it a constructive part of the conversation. Ignoring it isn't doing anyone any good!
I am hearing from people that were there that it was probably a targeted "hit" which has nothing to do with what was going on in the bar. Sadly, the guy was shot in the neck point blank. In fact, from what I have been told by people who were inside the club it was 60% - 70% female at the time and not even the people in the bar could figure out what was going on out there. Probably take the police some time to figure all this out so give them a break. They want this guy caught as much as we do.
The victim graduated from Franklin High School? Where did the victims in the last two shootings attend?
My condolences to the families of the dead.
"It's truly going to shit and is no longer a nice place to live"
It is just two statistical blips on a huge radar. Did you pull up your stakes and move when that kid shot up all his friends at that party a few years ago?
If you flee the neighborhood, you just make the neighborhood worse. If you care about capitol hill, you should go out *more*... the more eyes on the street, the safer things are.
@52 " Instead of abandoning it, why don't you do something positive to make it better??"
I would be willing to bet that I try to improve the neighborhood more than about 95% of the people who live here. I go to the community meetings, I constantly pick up garbage, I nag the city to have graffiti removed (repeatedly), i badger the merchants on Broadway to do something about the pan-handlers. I am CONSTANTLY trying. And that's where the disgust comes in. NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENS!!! In fact the shit gets worse all the time, and I have just about had it. I really get fed up with the fact that most people in the neighborhood simply don't give a rats-ass. When I talk about moving from the area, it's because I want to live in a real commuinity and not have to fear for my girlfriend everytime she walks down the street at night
I live a block away from the Baltic room. I can tell you for their hip-hop night attracts a nearly all black crowd. Don't blame hip-hop, this is just what happens when you get a group of drunken black people together. The majority of the crouds is cool, but they attract ghetto thug idiots who think they can improve their standing in the black social heirarchy by emulating the thug kinds of hip-hop.
"this is just what happens when you get a group of drunken black people together"
Wow this was my friend "Moe" who was killed. I have read all the comments that you idiots have posted. HAS ANYBODY EVER BEEN TO A HIP HOP SHOW IN SEATTLE? ITS 90 PERCENT WHITE! I WAS AT THE WU TANG CONCERT AT MEMORIAL STADIUM! 95 PERCENT WHITE! HIP HOP HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE OR GO OFF BY ALONE. FUCK RACE. THERES NO BLACK SERIAL KILLERS OUT THERE. SHOULD WE SAY ALL WHITE PEOPLE HACK UP FOLKS AND STICK THEM IN THE FREEZER FOR DINNER LATER??? I WORKED SECURITY BEFORE MOSH PITS AND ALL THAT. ITS OK FOR PEOPLE TO FIGHT, COME OUT WITH BLOODY NOSES AND TEETH KNOCKED OUT AND THATS NORMAL! AND 1 FIGHT BREAKS OUT IN A HIP HOP CLUB AND THE CITY WANTS TO CLOSE IT DOWN FOR GOOD! LOL. ITS CRAZY. IM OUT. VOTE FOR OBAMA!
I wanted to come send my little cousin off and show him his family in Oakland, CA loves him. That was my little cousin who was shot and I'm sad to have to hear about it and to be where I'm at right now.
YA FAMILY LOVES YOU BOY, WATCH OVER US
Is this the same Maurice Alan who went to John Muir Elementary School and Washington Middle school? I really hope not.
I really had a bad feeling about the owner of Level 5 taking owner of the Baltic Room it sounded as good as an idea as hiring the tweaky former head of security at Sugar to take over. I really hope that Seattle hasn't doomed one of it's own chidren to a young death. The city needs to check the club owners who attrack this kind of violence. There's internal corruption or something vile endangering lives.
I really hope it wasn't my Maurice Alan. He was a hoot on feild trips.
just to set the record straight on a couple things. i was there when it happened, and the crowd inside the club was great.. it was mostly women, and it was peaceful. the people who did the shooting were never in the club, and either was Maurice (RIP). it was obviously a targeted hit that would have happened wherever his enemies saw him. unfortunately their are people on capitol hill who choose to focus on the club as the problem rather than society as a whole. you people don't and it seems never will understand reality. you base all your opinions off of biased media and inaccurate heresay. you should be ashamed of yourselves for thinking you have any idea what you're talking about, and recklessly throwing around your theories in a public forum. you make yourselves and "your neighborhood" look like a haven for bigots. By the way, the club was playing 75% R-n-B all night. RIP to Mo Alan who was a father, a brother and a son with a large loving family.
I was in the club during the shooting. True hip hop crowds are more intense than tha average top 40/pop/techno/rock scenes. I feel its because hip hop is MORE than just a song with a catchy hook. Its a LIFESTYLE, people not only feel it they LIVE IT And we all know life aint pretty, all the tyme. Most REAL supporters are just go out to enjoy the music have a drink and mingle. But that intense enery mixed with acohol and an ignorant attitude can be deadly. Any way I was in the club that night at tha bar. Shots rang out everybody ducked. After about 20 seconds we ran outside to see a young man I recognized laying in front of the club. It seemed as the police where close because they pulled up as I ran out. I was with a a lot of people so I had to make sure two groups got to there cars safely during all the confusion. MORE POLICE HAVE ARRIVED about 7 or 8 cars total by the end of the nite. I went back in the club to get my coat came came outside and he was still on the ground. My phone has been blown up numerous times and everyone is still shaken by this image most police proceeded to try to clear tha streets and "cattle" people away. From what I saw the ambulance didn't show up for about 30-40 min after I heard the shots....but tha police where sure there pretty quick. The man who got shot was a good person and didn't deserve to encounter this senseless act of violence. Unfortunate to say but just like black people, hip hop is feared, misunderstood and punished at greater lengths for the same crimes that other people commit................damn, all those police down there and only a 10 second story on the news..are they "detecting anything??? I am.....RIP MOE you have touched many.
We need to stop this unnecessary violence. We are losing way too many of our people. What happen to the days when we use to fight with our fists? and then just let it go. Now days we have those weak ass people who are so weak they have to resort to taking a weapon to harm another person. Do you not realize you donít get away with that shit?
We need to pull together and stop this violence. It is ridicules and played out! Focus on excelling in education, being a full time parent and staying out those environments that put not only you, but your family at risk.
For those that are ignorant and posting racial comments it proves that you are just as ignorant as those who pull the trigger. You didnít even know Maurice. He was a sweet young man and not a gang banger. I knew Maurice since we were 7 years old. He was a respectful, well mannered, black male trying to (legally) provide for his family. It doesnít matter how many kids he had, baby mothers, or even if he a juvenile record. Thatís irrelevant to someone murdering him over a place in a club line.
Majority of the innocent people who are killed are not affiliated with gangs. It doesnít matter if they were black or white. Violence strikes everywhere and to everyone. I believe the last victim that was killed in Queen Anne was Caucasian woman and was killed by a Caucasian male. Was she in a gang? NO, she was another innocent victim.
**IF YOU CAN NOT POST RESPECTFULLY THEN LEAVE YOUR COMMENTS OFF THIS THREAD.**
@35- you are so ignorant. Oh my goodness I can't believe there are people like you out in the streets with no care in the world about the life of a human, specifically an African-Amercian human. I pray for your soul, seriously.
@36- It has nothing to do with race. If you READ THE STORY YOU IDIOT, you'll see he was never in the club. He got turned away because he didn't have proper ID. He was smoking a cigarette on the corner of the sidewalk and it appeared to be a targeted attack for whatever reason.
Guns, hip hop and African Americans are not things where you can't have one without the other. I love hip hop, true hip hop. I'm an educated African American woman with an MPA and don't carry a gun to hip hop shows. Not all black people that listen to hip hop are ignorant and ruthless, you are truly the ignorant one who is ruthless with your awful stereotypes.
And as someone mentioned above, most of the "hip-hop" shows I've been to are mainly white college boys, so get your shit straight.
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