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Thursday, January 10, 2008

Equal Slog Time for Equal Jackassery

posted by on January 10 at 10:00 AM

Hey, I won’t defend Jesse Jackson Jr.’s ridiculous (post-NH!) speculation on Hillary’s touching displays of emotion, but neither can I let this one go:

Hillary Supporter Andrew Cuomo On Her NH Win: “You Can’t Shuck And Jive” w/Press Corps

By Eric Kleefeld - January 10, 2008, 12:10PM

A big Hillary Clinton supporter and statewide official in New York might have just given the Hillary campaign a real headache. During an appearance yesterday on talk radio — at almost the same time as Obama co-chair Jesse Jackson Jr. questioned Hillary’s tears — New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo used some words with a very troublesome racial history, apparently in reference to Barack Obama.

“It’s not a TV crazed race. Frankly you can’t buy your way into it,” Cuomo said, according to Albany Times Union reporter Rick Karlin. He then added, “You can’t shuck and jive at a press conference. All those moves you can make with the press don’t work when you’re in someone’s living room.”

The phrase “shuck and jive” refers to mischievous blacks behaving innocently in the presence of an authority figure, so as to lie and get out of trouble.

What is wrong with these people?

UPDATE:

Here’s Cuomo’s pathetic apology justification:

Cuomo called to play the tape of the interview, in which he says nice things about Obama, and in which the quote above is describing both Iowa and New Hampshire—meaning it’s not a direct reference to Clinton’s primary victory, or attempt to explain it.

“Barack Obama is a beautiful symbol. He’s a powerful speaker. He’s a charismatic figure. And what he has to say is important for the Democrats,” Cuomo says in the interview, with the New York Post’s Fred Dicker.

“It was never about Obama in the first place,” Cuomo told me of the use of the phrase, which he said he was using “as a synonym for ‘bob and weave.’”

This makes no sense whatsoever. Who was “bobbing and weaving” (Cuomo should go play Balderdash, he’d be good at it) if not one of HRC’s opponents? The reference to how one has to behave at a “press conference” strongly suggests Cuomo was referring to a presidential candidate, and HRC’s obvious rival is Obama.

For those of you in the comments who are saying the phrase is of African-American origin and therefore not derogatory: That’s silly. This is a reference to the stereotypical behavior of a black man who sucks up to and dissimulates in the presence of white people. It’s in the signifying monkey/Uncle Tom/tar baby orbit of race terminology, and even if a black person were to use it in reference to another black person, it would mean that person was a clever liar. To a politician, it’s an insult. Period.

RSS icon Comments

1

Blue jeans!

Posted by Mr. Poe | January 10, 2008 10:06 AM
2

Meh. Big deal.

Posted by Rotten666 | January 10, 2008 10:07 AM
3

Obama *is* getting pretty uppity lately.

Posted by w7ngman | January 10, 2008 10:09 AM
4

As a Clinton supporter, this story horrifies me. Whoever Cuomo was talking about- it could have been JJjr, the sourced story only says it's "apparently" about Obama- the use of "shuck and jive" is totally inappropriate. Cuomo needs to be publically sacked.

Posted by Big Sven | January 10, 2008 10:10 AM
5

with friends like these who needs enemas.

Posted by ellarosa | January 10, 2008 10:10 AM
6

Who actually knows the etymology of phrases like that? Come on! I really doubt that was in reference to blacks.

Posted by yearning | January 10, 2008 10:10 AM
7

I find it humorous how these 20th Century politicians are still stuck in last century's battles.

But very very sad.

And that goes for both Cuomo and Jesse Jackson Jr.

Posted by Will in Seattle | January 10, 2008 10:11 AM
8

@6 Dog whistle. But damn, you'd think these surrogates would think before speaking.

Posted by Gitai | January 10, 2008 10:12 AM
9

Isn't Andrew Cuomo that pretty boy whose dad was governor of NY who works for ABC news or something? I saw some article with a Cuomo in some Vanity Fair type mag with some famous actress/model chick in their upper manhattan apt. I don't know. I can't remember all these facts because I don't care.

Posted by who? | January 10, 2008 10:15 AM
10

but in a meta comment...

annie, I'm trying to decide if I have respect for you as a reporter or not. Sometimes you sound really articulate, but sometimes you sound like a high school reporter let loose in the big leagues. "touching displays of emotion" is one such time.

Perhaps you could have just let this incredibly negative story speak for itself without adding your own little dig? Saying your just an arts writer doesn't absolve you...

Posted by Big Sven | January 10, 2008 10:16 AM
11

i think the usage has modified since then. take this yahoo question/answer for example...http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=1006051720041

Posted by joey | January 10, 2008 10:16 AM
12

Andrew Cuomo has a history of foot in mouth disease. He was much hated as HUD director. His father is much more polished.

Posted by ahava | January 10, 2008 10:18 AM
13

@6

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuck_and_jive)

Shuckin' and jivin' (or shucking and jiving) is a slang term primarily used by African Americans. It refers to the speech and behavioral mechanisms adopted in the presence of an authority figure [1]. Shuckin' and jivin' usually involves clever lies and impromptu storytelling, used to one-up an opponent or avoid punishment [2]. Such behavior is believed to have originated in the era of slavery [3].

If it's in Wikipedia, it must be true!

Posted by I Got Nuthin | January 10, 2008 10:18 AM
14

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Sa. That's all I have to say.

Posted by let us be annoyed | January 10, 2008 10:20 AM
15

@10: Yeah, that may have been problematic phrasing, but I'm being entirely sincere. I defended Clinton's "angry" debate moment and cooed at her "That hurts my feelings" line. I found the immediate pre-NH Clinton quite touching.

Posted by annie | January 10, 2008 10:20 AM
16

@8-- I love "dog whistle," and want to use it too! But what does it mean? Urban Dictionary, with this, doesn't help:

"Refers to a person being so horny or in the midst of a sexual drought, that he/she is obviously emitting sounds only a dog can hear because no one else has been responding.
I'm so dog whistle right now that I'm ready to call my clingy ex."

Are you saying @6 might as well be dog whistling, since nobody's going to buy the idea that Cuomo didn't intend "shuck 'n jive" to have a racial meaning?

Posted by fixo | January 10, 2008 10:23 AM
17

First "pork chop" now this. Apparently I'm out of touch with racial epithets.

Posted by DOUG. | January 10, 2008 10:33 AM
18

annie- I guess I just assume snark from everyone associated with the SLOG, on both sides of the keyboard. I will try to be more credulous in the future.

None of this should be seen as an attempt to divert attention from the central tenet, though- Cuomo has got to be thrown off (under?) the bus in a big public way. Hills could gain points if she handles this unfortunate situation decisively.

Posted by Big Sven | January 10, 2008 10:33 AM
19

"Shuck and Jive" sounds a lot less insidious when Cab Calloway sings it.

Posted by NapoleonXIV | January 10, 2008 10:35 AM
20

What IS wrong with SOME people?

How do you - or Kleefeld - determine that this is "in apparent reference" to Obama?

Reporter Karlin doesn't go there. Rather the opposite: it's in reference to retail politics NH-style vs the air wars of larger states.

Posted by RonK, Seattle | January 10, 2008 10:37 AM
21

Advice for anyone planning to run for president: do not hire sons of washed up politicians.

Posted by Joe M | January 10, 2008 10:40 AM
22

Thing is, the tradition of racism in this country is so long and the borrowings between cultures are so extensive and so nuanced and situational in their meanings -- and the understanding of the listeners is so varied and imperfect -- it's really hard not to do stuff like this every so often.

So, for example, "in a coon's age" actually does refer to raccoons. But you'd want to be careful using the phrase in a discussion about Obama. Or "call a spade a spade." Also not racist in its origins, but something you'd want to avoid on general principle in a political discussion that may or may not relate to Obama. There are literally hundreds of common phrases and words that can fuck a person up when there's a TV camera pointed at them.

"We think the primary voters just got spooked." "Obama doesn't stand a ghost of a chance in Bensonhurst." "It's a jungle out there."

And, of course, the easily misunderstood, "Like all Black people, Barak Obama is a lazy, stupid, and untrustworthy." In some parts of the country, that's just another way of saying, "Pass the salt, please."

Posted by Judah | January 10, 2008 10:42 AM
23

"these people"?????????
racist.

Posted by chops | January 10, 2008 10:43 AM
24

Note that the Wiki definition states that the phrase originated *from* African-Americans, not *about* African-Americans. Is it possible that a phrase can originate in one racial, social or other subset group and fit a universally-understood situation so well that it catches on with persons outside of the original group? YES. Remember the "niggardly controversy?" This is about ignorance, not racism.

Posted by Matthew | January 10, 2008 10:48 AM
25

@16, I think @8's use of dog whistle means that Cuomo was "implying without implying" in a duplicitous manner.

Posted by yearning | January 10, 2008 10:48 AM
26

Shit. This bonehead was actually doing good work to subpoena WAMU and other lenders who inflated home appraisals nationwide to increase their fees. Bet that effort will begin to suffer thanks to his assholery,

Posted by tomasyalba | January 10, 2008 11:07 AM
27

Talk about overblown. To most people, "schuck and jive" means exactly what it refers to, overenthusiastically putting up a false front. Maybe Cuomo should know better, but most people have no idea of its racial connotations.

Posted by laterite | January 10, 2008 11:18 AM
28

@25, thanks. I get it now. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics

I don't know why I even consult Urban Dictionary.

Posted by fixo | January 10, 2008 11:25 AM
29

At the absolute best, it was a tone-deaf comment. Giving it every benefit of the doubt.

He's earned the right to be drug through the mud for a while, until the Next Person says the Next Stupid Thing. But that's about it.

Posted by NapoleonXIV | January 10, 2008 11:25 AM
30

@26 good point.

And I thought Annie did well by trying to draw a conclusion from statements by two different rogue ass-hats working for the two leading campaigns.

Even if they're both ass-hats.

Posted by Will in Seattle | January 10, 2008 11:28 AM
31

seems to be a lot of slip-ups lately:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ARQqKPaDf8

(courtesy of Ms. Kelly Tilghman)

Posted by cochise. | January 10, 2008 11:32 AM
32

what is the problem here? if you are going to comment on something "controversial", do not do so using "controversial" terminology or ideas.

Posted by infrequent | January 10, 2008 11:33 AM
33

Not a big deal. Coumo is a fucking hero and I don't think every public figure should be expected to know every saying that may have a sordid history. I can’t wait to see him as Attorney General.

Posted by Gabe Global | January 10, 2008 11:37 AM
34

Shuck and jive, as in, "There you go, shuckin' and jivin' for the man." It ONLY has a racial connotation, and it is not an obscure expression IF you know American black culture at all, and I wouldn't use it to or about a black man unless we were really, really good friends.

"Dog whistle" was popularized in commentaries on George Bush's frequent use of expressions designed only to be understood by evangelicals, implying he's either one of them or, further, is actually on a mission from God. As in, pitched so only dogs can hear.

Posted by Eric F | January 10, 2008 11:56 AM
35

Annie, I wish you'd take the same hardball approach to Obama's campaign that you do with Clinton's. Obama's got a thin record, some odd policy positions, and a campaign that appears to be coasting on naive young voters and whole lot of hot air. If he gets the kid gloves up to the nom, what's going to happen when he gets ass-raped by the Republican pitbull?

Posted by gavingourley | January 10, 2008 11:59 AM
36

I guess I missed the part where Cuomo is directly employed by Hillary's campaign. How do the two correlate again?

Posted by it's ME | January 10, 2008 12:02 PM
37

All I know is that in any situation by anyone, efforts to attack someone in a personal way often backfire horribly. Cuomo should not be allowed anywhere near the press. "Shuck and Jive" is not even veiled racist rhetoric. (Slog is so constantly packed with defenders of entrenched racism it is silly) By accident or on purpose, this is poison for Hillary's campaign. Going in to South Carolina's primary you would think the guy was a mole for Obama.

I'm seeing this all over the place though, especially with Hillary Clinton. Male chauvanism is just oozing out of the mouths of all sorts of people you would think would have some self-reflection. Horsey's editorial cartoon this morning is a case in point.

Posted by mirror | January 10, 2008 12:09 PM
38

@34 Eric, you are a scholar indeed. Actually, though, Wikipedia teaches that the origins of "dog whistle" are in Australia, from John Howard's first run for PM, when he successfully appealed to anti-immigrant voters using veiled code words. Or something.

Posted by fixo | January 10, 2008 12:22 PM
39

"..it would mean that person was a clever liar. To a politician, it’s an insult. Period."

Ok, aren't all politicians clever liars? They lie by omission all the time. Isn't that how they manage to speak whole paragraphs without actually saying anything substantive?

Posted by Toby | January 10, 2008 12:27 PM
40

I also heard Bill refered to Obama as a "kid" in some speech recently. If it's true how close is that to "boy"?

Posted by Jersey | January 10, 2008 12:29 PM
41

@35.. Why does Annie have to give the same hardball approach to Clinton's campaign as she does Obama's when Erica posts about 5 times as much Clinton Slanted Crap on here?

Combine Erica's stuff with Josh's Clinton slanted crap and its more like 10x as much Clinton slanted crap.

I don't agree with everything Annie Wagner writes, but it sure is nice to see somebody writing something from the exterior of Clinton's colon.

Posted by Clint | January 10, 2008 12:40 PM
42

@34 : And I am saying that the phrase has transcended that racial connotation. It gets used by people who have no knowledge of its origins, but use it to denote a certain type of behavior, that, yes, did start in minstrel culture, but is no longer strictly defined in those terms.

Posted by laterite | January 10, 2008 12:55 PM
43

Andrew Cuomo - what a stupid dickhead

Posted by Mrs. Y | January 10, 2008 12:57 PM
44

@42: Just like n*gger has transcended race and is now exclusively understood to only refer to one's friends, right?

Posted by RU Shur | January 10, 2008 1:30 PM
45

@42, you're such a modernist. What's usage history or etymology when you have a shiny new meaning to layer over them, obscuring their pointy corners? You probably use "comprise" to mean "compose" and "beg the question" to mean "pose the question."

Posted by Eric F | January 10, 2008 1:49 PM
46

@41 Clint, you're right, ECB and Josh should apply the same standards to the Clinton campaign that they do to the Obama campaign.

@44 The word is nigger.

Posted by gavingourley | January 10, 2008 1:59 PM
47

I don't see nothin' wrong...with a l'il shuck and jive.

Posted by R. Kelly | January 10, 2008 2:01 PM
48

Jersey@40: reference, please?

Posted by Big Sven | January 10, 2008 2:05 PM
49

This is NOTHING. Some chick at the Golf Channel thinks Tiger Woods should be lynched!

Posted by DOUG. | January 10, 2008 3:11 PM
50

Democrats: Can we please please please avoid the Circular Firing Squad on the road to the nomination? Can each campaign present the Best of Three Betters intead of handing bullets to the future GOP 08 presidential campaign? Can we please not fuck this up with so much at stake?

There will be plenty of racism and sexism (or both, depending on the makeup of the Democratic ticket) in the Dem vs. GOP race--let's leave that tar to the Rove machine and be prepared to fight it instead of doing his work for him.

Posted by andy niable | January 10, 2008 3:21 PM
51

Big Sven #48

I haven't been able to find it on youtube (specifically the "kid" reference) but here's where I heard it

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2008/01/09/donna-brazile-hints-bill-clintons-obama-attacks-racially-offensive

Personally I'd like to see it for myself to judge so if anyone else knows where to find it...I really was asking if anyone heard or saw it so I could take a look myself.

Posted by Jersey | January 10, 2008 4:43 PM
52

Jersey- I read that quote at newsbusters.org ("Exposing and Combating Liberal Media Bias"- yikes!) and I totally didn't get where Donna Brazile got "kid". They played a shortened version of this Bill Clinton "fairy tale" speech (also discussed on the slog.)

Nowhere here did Bill Clinton call Obama a "kid". He refers to "Senator Obama." Furthermore, her statement that his saying "this whole thing is the biggest fairytale I've ever seen" as being somehow racially insensitive is the exact kind of debate stifling that some around here have accused the *Clinton* camp of doing.

Posted by Big Sven | January 10, 2008 11:18 PM
53

I read her quotes as he called Obama a kid in another talk the previous week before the fairy tale talk. I too watched the fairy tale talk and didn't hear it so I was hoping someone could direct me to the Kid reference. Regardless as a former president isn't it kinda disingenious for him to be putting down Obama in that manner? I mean talk up his wife sure but its kinda low-down to dog the others.

Posted by Jersey | January 11, 2008 1:12 PM
54

Jersey-

I think it's totally appropriate for WJC to make arguments involving the voting record of his wife's opponents. My goodness- that's half of what all good political debate is about (policy arguments being the other half.)

HRC is fighting for the presidency of the United States. I don't think what Bill said in that "fairy tale" quote was inappropriate at all. Nor would I consider it inappropriate (as Obama has done many, many times) to discuss HRC voting record.

Posted by Big Sven | January 11, 2008 3:05 PM

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