Comments on An Open Letter to the Seattle Art Museum

Personally, I'm just waiting for Ms. Graves to "deconstruct" this for us...

Welkom to Nazi Amerika!

I think it's ridiculous that you can't touch public art in a public park.

And that you can't take pictures of public art in a public museum.

The directors of SAM are acting like a bunch of snobs who loath the fact that in order to get funding they have to share their art with the general community. Is the general community so much less pure than the natural elements that corrode and change outdoor art over time? Are our hands so unclean that we can't experience art through them?

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I hear you Paco. Apparently their jurisdiction extents through Myrtle Edwards Park too. Don't even think about trying to get down to the water.

I am still shocked that both SAM and Richard Serra (who has been doing public art for decades) could not have foreseen such natural human impulses when they were designing the park.

Paco's big problem is his stupid threats. I was all on your side until the last sentence.

Paco Jones. Brilliant name. Sounds like a famous soccer player, or Formula 1 driver.

To the point of his letter, what's the deal with guards proactively warning visitors? Was the child reaching for the works, only to have the guard swoop in at the last minute to save the poor, brittle hulks of steel, say, in the case of "Wake," from his post-toddler destructive hand?

Frankly, for a culturally developing town like Seattle, we ought to have the equivalent of a "paint your own plate" model for our cultural institutions.

After all, many of our citizens never had a chance to engage in getting messy with art due to cuts in school arts programs and, I would argue, this is a necessary step for many when it comes to developing a taste for art.

It certainly makes art less of an abstraction -- for instance, I am convinced that the fact I know what the paint smelled and felt like, how it moved on the canvas beneath the brush when looking at The Night Watch increases my appreciation of Rembrandt. And frankly, taking art from abstraction to three-dimensional experience is critical to making it part of a broader civil discourse.

In the case of a child, touch is a huge portion of how they learn. These little folks -- and their parents and gay uncles -- should be able to touch the Serra, or picnic beneath "Buntan's Chess" and "Eagle."

Seattleites need this closer, less "holy," relationship with art first if we're ever to hope that appreciation of culture becomes a more dynamic part of our DNA.

* Bunyan's

When will we be able to edit our posts???

I have been to the Olympic Sculpture Park only one time, and I saw a security guard scolding a dad and his toddler. The offense? His daughter was walking atop a 2-foot tall landscaping wall while the father was holding her hand for balance. It looked like something that kids and dads should be allowed to do at a park, but I guess not!

I say just go ahead and keep touching the art. What are they going to do, arrest you? Having a camera rolling will help as well, no one wants to end up on YouTube for being an asshole.

Is the general community so much less pure than the natural elements that corrode and change outdoor art over time?

When they deface it with graffiti, yes.

@11 -- I think we should have a demonstration, and I have an idea...the first day the temperature goes down to, say, 25 degrees, we bundle up Mr. Poe and take him to "Wake," where he will touch his tongue to the sculpture while we break out picket signs and bullhorns and get to work.

This is the future. Being ordered around public spaces by officious security guards. It's not a police state; police states are too expensive. It's a minimum-wage, couldn't-pass-the-GED state.

Fnarf nails it this time. Give some minimum-wager illiterate some power, just a shred, and away they go. I knew the SAM people were assholes, the way they pissily shut down the waterfront trolley, and dick around with Hempfest. Fuck 'em.

Huh, that is a great obsevation Fnarf,

"It's a minimum-wage,couldn't-pass-the-GED state."

So that is why bossy people telling me the obvious makes my skin crawl. It's like being ordered around by dumb and dumber.

Tonight's class warfare will begin in 3...2...1...

If you missed HUMP! this year you missed...

naked boys roller skating through the sculpture park, Ivar's come shot that landed on a sculpture, and more.

Take that, SAM.

So it's not really the owners doing this, it's just that the stupid help can't be controlled - and Bush and company are innocent - its just the stupid soldiers, what was her name England, that are doing the torture, right.

Art gone bad.

My trip this summer to the sculpture park was likewise marred by the security guards eying me suspiciously. I've never faced that kind of scrutiny at an indoor art museum; when I went to the Hug exhibit at the Frye this week the security was unobtrusive even when my fingers were pointing at the sculpture, less than an inch away from touching it.

I agree with Paco that if SAM wants to call it a "park" it needs to conform to the public-space ideals of such a place.

Gee -- I think that the big whiner missed the part about the sculpture park that is the Seattle Art Museum. If it says don't touch, they have a right to tell you to not fucking touch the fucking art. It's an offshoot of the fucking museum. Too bad we have such a fucking slacker society that has no appreciation for artwork and are too into themselves and their "cool infantile anarchy" to follow the rules of "the Man." Grow up. Go to a goddamn park that's NOT a sculpture park with swingsets and a playground if you want a fucking public park. Wear your sweatsuits and gym shoes looking like you just rolled out of bed (though you spent 30 min making your hair look artfully dissheveled) and go somewhere else. This fucking city could stand a little culture and maturity.

Oh my God Dan... Although that is hysterical I'm afraid I would have been the Dumb and Dumber person yelling, Now Boys please not shoot come at the art. It's sticky and may be hard to wash off and well YUCK...!!

Then there is the reality which would be me screaming, covering my eyes and running away!

Sorry, that should have read, Now boys, do not shoot come at the art. Duh.... to the boys not me!!!!

Give it 20 years and then when it's all rusty and overgrown and nobody gives a crap about it - like the Fun Forest - you can probably climb all over it.

You can't take pictures?? Why not?

###
At the National Gallery of Art (in that other Washington, back East), I'd heard you can take pictures. So, I brought my digital camera, and started clicking away at sundry Renoirs, Monets, Audubons, etc.

A guard came into the little room. Not quite believing what I was doing was allowed, I asked him, "Is it okay to take pictures?"
He said, "No, you surely can't take pictures. [Pause:...3...2...1] Ha ha, got you there, didn't I?"
###
I got about 100 shots. Masterpieces now rotate on my screensaver.
And, it wasn't even called a "park."
SAM: get a clue.

I had a similar experience when I went there. I was standing on one of the concrete walls, nowhere near any of the art, and one of the security people came by on his bicycle and told me to get down. There was of course no sign saying you're not allowed to stand there. I guess he was worried about me damaging the concrete? He then followed me around on his bike for the next fifteen minutes.

My sense was that they were typical rent-a-cops: Little or no formal training, an anxious desire to perform their duties even when being a security guard in such a setting means spending 99.9% of your time doing absolutely nothing.

Good to see they're scaring kids as well as scolding adults. Awesome.

Nice.

I was there with a friend taking some pictures a few months ago, and got scolded by the rent-a-cops about touching the art (we weren't) and what I could and couldn't do with my pictures.

I thought he was a bit of an asshole, but shrugged it off. I didn't realize that they had now resorted to scaring off little children. They've graduated to being colossal assholes.

Not cool, SAM. Not cool.

If it bothers you sooo much, don't go! Or get rich and powerful and be on the S.A.M. board. Even though it's a 'park', there still have to be rules.

You can't touch the art or get too close. But you can spit on it.

I had a similar experience at SAM with my 10 year old daughter. We were standing about 2 feet away from a Lichtenstein so that we could see the detail of the painting. A security guard told her not to stand that close because the humidity from her breath would ruin the painting.

Looking around I noticed two other adults standing even closer to other paintings but they were not bothered. The rentacops proceeded to follow us around closely for the next 20 minutes. During that time I noticed several other adults standing closely to various paintings, including the Lichtenstein.

It was a seriously shitty experience and she does not want to go back.

Afterwards we went to Roq La Rue Gallery and had a lovely time.

Hi SAM this is the Pubic. We want to touch the art in the Public Park you bought with Public Money. If we can't touch the art in the Public Park, rip it out and replace it art we can touch/experience on some other level than "forbidden, inaccessible and locked behind an unfriendly invisible force field."

Seriously, that's a big disconnect. What sort of idiots are running SAM anyway?

A good public artist will make a piece solid enough to allow the viewer to have physical contact with it. I haven't seen the piece myself, but I assume that it was and that the artist intended it to endure time as well as public interaction. The guards just need to get over themselves.

I work at an art museum in another city and we have to tell the guards that all the time. They tell people they can't take notes or talk or sit too long. None of these are actually rules and we encourage ALL of the above as we are an educational facility.

@31: "Hi SAM, this is the pubic..." Hahah!

That fucking "park" was a bad idea from the get-go -- I still can't believe that SAM didn't anticipate that people would touch the stuff. I say let people touch it all they want--if it breaks either fix it or send it back the "artist" and go find some sturdier "art" to put in its place...

The campus of Western Washington University in Bellingham has more public art than SAM, and none of it is guarded and all of it is touchable.

By college students, children, urinating dogs, or you should you care to drop by and check it out. I used to hang out there growing up and it formed my ideas of art.

SAM is sending the wrong message. They should have anticipated and designed around touching and photography.

"Public" art should allow for a visceral experience, so long as the art is not damaged. Feeling the textures and temperatures of various materials can contribute to the experience.

I lived in Minneapolis for over a decade and spent many, many days walking through, the Walker's Sculpture Garden. Note: Not park, garden. Some art includes signs instructing you not to stand or touch it. Some beckon for human interaction. For example: Mark Di Suvero's "Arikidea"

To expect people to refrain from touching any of the art in the Olympic Sculpture Park is simply unrealistic.

I feel your pain, SAM has went out of its way to over protect things that should be open to the public.

I went to the opening of SAM's new downtown gallery in May and was asked to end my viewing experience after a guard mistaked my cell phone use for taking pictures of the art work. I was told I was violated the copyright.

The funny part is that the artwork I was in front of was 300 years old and clearly in the Public Domain. The BS of protecting copyright that did not exisit promted me start taking actual picture which did not go over well.

As authority goes, museum security guards have got to be at the bottom of the totem pole. And yet, you people are such cowards that you don't have the guts to stand up to them, even when they're fucking with your kids. Instead, you go home and write about it in your favorite blog. Forget about the police state, a "minimum wage, couldn't-pass-the-GED-state" is enough to keep you in line.

I'm not sure SAM deserves all the blame here (though they certainly deserve some). A lot of the art (most?) in the park is on loan from private collectors. It's likely that the collectors required the "no touching" policy.

Remember Paul Allen's crazy "no photography" policy regarding his typewriter eraser?

Brandon J.@38 - Some of us do stand up to the rentacops/SAM AND talk about it here.

I agree. If they wan't to be fussy about the "park"'s use, dont call it a park. In a park, everything is fair game. Either call it a museum or a "garden". At least calling the land for what it is will cut back on our expectations.

Olympic Sculpture Museum indeed....

By the way, the best viewpoint for that organge thing is looking back at it from the water, not from the city out to the water. When you look back at the outdoor museum, you can almost understand why they dont have any benches. It would ruin the landscape's script edge.

@36 Hell Yes! I live blocks from the Walker and I think I will go swim out onto the Cherry Spoon and take a shit in the moonlight. Just kidding. actually, after dark if you ride through on your bike someone will come on the speaker and tell you to disperse. Too many homeless people I guess. But you can pretty much touch what you want. And when someone tags the art, they cover it with a sheet until they can remove the paint. I have never seen security there either. For better or worse.

@38 - A good fuck off never hurt anyone. When security follows me around, I walk straight to them, and start following them around. Nice way to spark interesting conversation. Laughing at them is effective too. But you gotta be direct!

Fuck Em!

The rules about not touching the big, orange Alexander Calder "Eagle" sculpture are particularly ironic.

Look at the top of it: it's covered in seagull poop!

(BTW my former art student girlfriend told me the secret of public art: "If you can't make it good, make it big and paint it orange")

On my visit from out of town, my sister and I had a kind of opposite experience at the Park-the security guard hit on us and walked almost two blocks with us away from the park, trying to get our numbers. At least he didn't yell at us....? He was beyond creepy-gross mustache and all.

Didn't you know that your touch is like acid to art? In comparison to bird shit, wind, dust, etc... fingerprints are the arch enemy to outdoor art.

Grow the fuck up SAM, it's a fucking park for christ sake.

I walked through the "park" one day last summer. It was warm and sunny and being in a "park", I took my shirt off and strolled through the walk, on my way to Myrtle Edwards. Guards quickly surrounded me and indicated that there was "a dress code in the park". After returning home, I checked the SAM website and reviewed the rules. Nothing about a dress code. Rent-a cop making up his own "rules", I guess.

I had no idea you weren't supposed to touch the art. It's always been my understanding that art at a sculpture park is made to withstand people touching it. That's why there are no cordons, right? Whenever I go to the Olympic Sculpture Park, I give Wake a solid kick, because I thought I could. And I've never been told not to. Whoops?

I also live near the park...in warmer times my BF and I would run through the park on our way to Myrtle Edwards. On one particularly hot run he had his shirt of while we were jogging. The SAM people pulled him aside and made him put his shirt on. It mostly cracked us up. We did not touch the art.

I Have been in Seattle most of my life and remember the two camels in the art museum downtown when they were outside of the old museum in Volunteer Park. I can remember touching, sitting on, you name it them. No one cared they were out in the open. Now that they are inside the museum downtown you can't touch them. How stupid. They survived outside for years where people could sit/shit/or dance on them, no problem. NOw that they are well protedted inside, even a slight glance of a finger could result in grave damage.

Don't even get me started on those Bagly and Virgina Wright "art" "gifts" in the sculpture garden. They think anything ugly made of stone,wood,or metal must be great art. The less talent it takes to make the more artistic in thier minds. for more on this see the movie "My kid could make that"

SAM should install large sharp spikes around each sculpture. That would keep people from touching.

I was in Olympic Sculpture Park on New Year's Eve Day and was shocked by the way that the security personnel were treating visitors, especially children.

Near Tony Smith's "Stinger," I saw a woman surrounded by three security officers. Her two young children stood to the side. The officers were aggressively questioning the woman and filling out paperwork because her five year old son had touched the sculpture. She was rightfully confused and outraged. She tried to explain that she had warned her children not to touch the artwork, that she was aware of the park's policy. But the security officers continued to demand her personal information to fill out the paperwork.

When she angrily questioned security's need for her name, phone number, and address, they called for more back up. Meanwhile, the obviously distraught five year old was bawling by himself. I saw the kid start to walk away toward the road. His mother could not see him because she was surrounded by security.

I ran after the child and urged him to return to his mom. His tearful mom thanked me for watching out for him, and his brother took his hand.

A small, shocked crowd gathered but no one was sure what to do. I had the feeling that if I had tried to intervene or question security that the cops would be called pronto.

And what was the crime? Questioning security? A five year old giving in to temptation and leaving a couple greasy fingerprints?

If this is how the sculpture park is going to handle the inevitable problem of children touching the artwork, they need to make it very clear that children are not welcome in the park. Or they need to set up barriers to keep people away from the sculptures.

I was so shocked by the behavior of the park staff that I told all my friends about it the next day. My neighbor remarked, "Yeah . . . the people who set up the sculpture park? I don't think they even know what a sculpture park is."

I no longer want a SAM membership.

Does anyone understand why big ugly outdoor sculptures need to be orange?